Searching \ for '[PIC] My simple dev board is not working' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/devices.htm?key=pic
Search entire site for: 'My simple dev board is not working'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[PIC] My simple dev board is not working'
2009\08\12@022059 by solarwind

picon face
I finished constructing my very simple PCB and PICKIT 2 is not working
with it. When I plug it in, PICKIT2 says:

PICKIT2 VPP voltage level error.
Check  target & retry operation.

So I rebuilt the exact circuit on a breadboard and it worked.

Here is the schematic: http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/617/schematic.png

Here is the board: http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6794/boardq.png

The only variations I did were that I changed the value of the
polarized capacitor around (1 uF, 100 uF) and changed the value of the
resistors around (1K, 10K) during breadboard prototyping and it didn't
make a difference and everything still worked.

On the PCB, I replaced the 470 ohm resistor with a 1K and the 10 uF
electrolytic cap with a 1 uF electrolytic cap. On a breadboard, these
values worked, so I don't know why the PCB one isn't working.

Any ideas?

-- [ solarwind ] -- http://solar-blogg.blogspot.com/

2009\08\12@093153 by jim

flavicon
face
Solarwind,

Since this is a new unproven board, it could be a short on the PCB.  Did the
mfg of the board do a flying lead test
before shipping it to you?  If you have another blank board, check it for
shorts usning an ohmmeter or continuity
tester.  You might find that there are tiny whiskers between some of the
traces.  Especially if it is a fine pitch board.

Jim

{Original Message removed}

2009\08\12@105127 by Thomas C Sefranek

flavicon
face
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: solarwind
 To: PICLIST
 Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:20 AM
 Subject: [PIC] My simple dev board is not working


 I finished constructing my very simple PCB and PICKIT 2 is not working
 with it. When I plug it in, PICKIT2 says:

 PICKIT2 VPP voltage level error.
 Check  target & retry operation.


Try taking out the capacitor on the Vpp (MCLR) line.
Your schematic does not show part designators, so I can't be more specific.


 *
 |  __O    Thomas C. Sefranek  spam_OUTtcsTakeThisOuTspamcmcorp.com
 |_-\<,_   Amateur Radio Operator: WA1RHP
 (*)/ (*)  Bicycle mobile on 145.41, 448.625 MHz

ARRL Instructor, Technical Specialist, VE Contact.
hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html
http://www.harvardrepeater.org

2009\08\12@110405 by Harry H. Arends

flavicon
face
According to his blog he dit the etching by himself if i read correct.
But its a good suggestion.

Harry
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2009\08\12@111444 by Harry H. Arends

flavicon
face
Could it be that the pwr and the supply from the PICkit dont like each
other. I always but a small diode (1N4148) between pwr and the 10K
resistor. See here: http://www.time-tech.eu/Piggy.jpg

Harry
{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\08\12@120819 by Funny NYPD

picon face
Recommends:
1. Remove the 0.1uF cap on VPP.
2. Try lower the Vdd on your PK2, please refer to this reference.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com
http://www.AuElectronics.com/products
http://augroups.blogspot.com/




________________________________
From: solarwind <x.solarwind.xspamspam_OUTgmail.com>
To: PICLIST <@spam@piclistKILLspamspammit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:20:39 AM
Subject: [PIC] My simple dev board is not working

I finished constructing my very simple PCB and PICKIT 2 is not working
with it. When I plug it in, PICKIT2 says:

PICKIT2 VPP voltage level error.
Check  target & retry operation.

So I rebuilt the exact circuit on a breadboard and it worked.

Here is the schematic: http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/617/schematic.png

Here is the board: http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6794/boardq.png

The only variations I did were that I changed the value of the
polarized capacitor around (1 uF, 100 uF) and changed the value of the
resistors around (1K, 10K) during breadboard prototyping and it didn't
make a difference and everything still worked.

On the PCB, I replaced the 470 ohm resistor with a 1K and the 10 uF
electrolytic cap with a 1 uF electrolytic cap. On a breadboard, these
values worked, so I don't know why the PCB one isn't working.

Any ideas?

-- [ solarwind ] -- http://solar-blogg.blogspot.com/

2009\08\12@134837 by peter green

flavicon
face

>
> Any ideas?
>  
What are those blue lines on your PCB layout? are they tracks you forgot
to route?

2009\08\12@141446 by Harry H. Arends

flavicon
face
No i think that he uses these as a wire bridge.
But on a wrong place but if you compare the schematic
And PCB you can see this.

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\08\12@153303 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Harry H. Arends<spamBeGoneh.arendsspamBeGonespamhome.nl> wrote:
> No i think that he uses these as a wire bridge.
> But on a wrong place but if you compare the schematic
> And PCB you can see this.

Yes, those are wire bridges. I etched the PCB myself and did some
checking around with a multimeter. I didn't notice anything abnormal.

I removed the 0.1 uF capacitor from the VPP line and it still does not work.

My breadboard version of the same schematic works though.

2009\08\12@153900 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:32 PM, solarwind<TakeThisOuTx.solarwind.xEraseMEspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Harry H. Arends<RemoveMEh.arendsspamTakeThisOuThome.nl> wrote:
>> No i think that he uses these as a wire bridge.
>> But on a wrong place but if you compare the schematic
>> And PCB you can see this.
>
> Yes, those are wire bridges. I etched the PCB myself and did some
> checking around with a multimeter. I didn't notice anything abnormal.
>
> I removed the 0.1 uF capacitor from the VPP line and it still does not work.
>
> My breadboard version of the same schematic works though.
>

Could it be that I accidentally damaged the chip by overheating it
during soldering? Or overheated some of the other components?

2009\08\12@155347 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:38:38 -0400, "solarwind"
<x.solarwind.xEraseMEspam.....gmail.com> said:

> > I removed the 0.1 uF capacitor from the VPP line and it still does not work.
> >
> > My breadboard version of the same schematic works though.
> >
>
> Could it be that I accidentally damaged the chip by overheating it
> during soldering? Or overheated some of the other components?

It's unlikely. My next step would be to look for shorts or a trace that
has a tiny break in it.

Cheerful regards,

Bob

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users:
 http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html

2009\08\12@163552 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Aug 11, 2009, at 11:20 PM, solarwind wrote:

> Here is the board:

Can you put up photos of the actual board (both sides)?

You didn't, say, forget to reverse the copper pattern?

BillW

2009\08\12@164658 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:35 PM, William "Chops"
Westfield<EraseMEwestfwspammac.com> wrote:
> Can you put up photos of the actual board (both sides)?

I will try, once I find my camera.

> You didn't, say, forget to reverse the copper pattern?

It's not necessary to reverse the pattern if you're only using through
hole components on one side.

2009\08\12@165135 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Bob Blick<RemoveMEbobblickEraseMEspamEraseMEftml.net> wrote:
> It's unlikely. My next step would be to look for shorts or a trace that
> has a tiny break in it.

Will do. I already tried and tested various parts using a multimeter
(for continuity) and it seemed to be fine (the capacitors are all
connected to the right pins, the header is all connected to the right
pins). I'll check for shorts again.

2009\08\12@171750 by Herbert Graf

picon face
On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 16:46 -0400, solarwind wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:35 PM, William "Chops"
> Westfield<RemoveMEwestfwspam_OUTspamKILLspammac.com> wrote:
> > Can you put up photos of the actual board (both sides)?
>
> I will try, once I find my camera.
>
> > You didn't, say, forget to reverse the copper pattern?
>
> It's not necessary to reverse the pattern if you're only using through
> hole components on one side.

Actually it is, depending on the components.

TTYL

2009\08\12@172729 by Tony Vandiver

flavicon
face
The PICKIT2 programming software has an option to read the Vcc on the
system - does it read differently on this board than on the one you
breadboarded?  I know the Vpp error reported probably refers to the MCLR
line voltage, but when you plug the PK2 in, what are the voltages on
MCLR and Vcc versus your good breadboard circuit?

solarwind wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\08\12@173119 by Scott

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Herbert Graf<EraseMEhkgrafspamspamspamBeGonegmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 16:46 -0400, solarwind wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:35 PM, William "Chops"
>> Westfield<RemoveMEwestfwKILLspamspammac.com> wrote:
>> > Can you put up photos of the actual board (both sides)?
>>
>> I will try, once I find my camera.
>>
>> > You didn't, say, forget to reverse the copper pattern?
>>
>> It's not necessary to reverse the pattern if you're only using through
>> hole components on one side.
>
> Actually it is, depending on the components.
>

I imagine the copper is on the top of the board and he soldered all
through-hole components at the top side.
I've done this before on my first homemade PCBs (now I just send
designs out to BatchPCB).

Have you put 5V (3.3V ?) on the board and made sure there wasn't
excessive current draw?
Made sure the Vdd/Vss pin(s) on the actual chip see the appropriate voltage?

-Scott

2009\08\12@174030 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Could it be that I accidentally damaged the chip by overheating it
> during soldering? Or overheated some of the other components?

You soldered the chip ????

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\08\12@175337 by olin piclist

face picon face
solarwind wrote:
> Could it be that I accidentally damaged the chip by overheating it
> during soldering? Or overheated some of the other components?

Probably not if you used a temperature controlled soldering iron and didn't
crank the temperature too much.  This sort of stuff should be done at 600F,
650F tops.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\08\12@175854 by olin piclist

face picon face
solarwind wrote:
> It's not necessary to reverse the pattern if you're only using through
> hole components on one side.

If you're using all thru hole, then you should have put DIP sockets on the
board in place of the bare PIC.  Then you can easily replace PICs if they
are damaged, or even program them outside the circuit if needed.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\08\12@180029 by Jinx

face picon face
> > It's not necessary to reverse the pattern if you're only using
> > through hole components on one side.
>
> Actually it is, depending on the components.

So true. A long time ago I made a brief foray into manufacturing
with a 20W guitar amp combo. All the op-amps had to to be
mounted on the copper side !

2009\08\12@180144 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Scott<goldscottSTOPspamspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
> I imagine the copper is on the top of the board and he soldered all
> through-hole components at the top side.
> I've done this before on my first homemade PCBs (now I just send
> designs out to BatchPCB).
>
> Have you put 5V (3.3V ?) on the board and made sure there wasn't
> excessive current draw?
> Made sure the Vdd/Vss pin(s) on the actual chip see the appropriate voltage?

I did not top solder anything.

I shall explain: img87.imageshack.us/img87/447/explaini.png

2009\08\12@180233 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Wouter van Ooijen<spamBeGonewouterSTOPspamspamEraseMEvoti.nl> wrote:
> You soldered the chip ????

I did not have any DIP sockets handy.

2009\08\12@180340 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Herbert Graf<KILLspamhkgrafspamBeGonespamgmail.com> wrote:
> Actually it is, depending on the components.

It was not necessary in my case.

2009\08\12@180353 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Tony Vandiver<EraseMEtonyspamEraseMEtraceelectronics.com> wrote:
> The PICKIT2 programming software has an option to read the Vcc on the
> system - does it read differently on this board than on the one you
> breadboarded?  I know the Vpp error reported probably refers to the MCLR
> line voltage, but when you plug the PK2 in, what are the voltages on
> MCLR and Vcc versus your good breadboard circuit?

Good idea, will do.

2009\08\12@181423 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 6:00 PM, Jinx<@spam@joecolquitt@spam@spamspam_OUTclear.net.nz> wrote:
> So true. A long time ago I made a brief foray into manufacturing
> with a 20W guitar amp combo. All the op-amps had to to be
> mounted on the copper side !

Whatever, with normal components, it's not necessary. It was not
necessary in my case.

Also, I ran through the troubleshoot wizard and I found that PGC is
being pulled high. I checked with a multimeter and found that PGC was
shorted to VDD. Now I have to figure out why...

2009\08\12@184159 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 6:14 PM, solarwind<spamBeGonex.solarwind.xspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
> Whatever, with normal components, it's not necessary. It was not
> necessary in my case.
>
> Also, I ran through the troubleshoot wizard and I found that PGC is
> being pulled high. I checked with a multimeter and found that PGC was
> shorted to VDD. Now I have to figure out why...

I finally got it working. There was a short between the PGC and VDD lines.

Thanks to everyone for helping!

2009\08\12@185539 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
solarwind wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Wouter van Ooijen<.....wouterspam_OUTspamvoti.nl> wrote:
>> You soldered the chip ????
>
> I did not have any DIP sockets handy.

Then you should have fixed one, not soldered the processor
directly to the board, of course.

There have been quite a lot of mails around this
now, maybe you should take a few days for fault tracing
and then report back what you have found. You could also
take some time and buy you an asortment of DIP sockets...

2009\08\12@200022 by Derward Myrick

picon face
Solarwind, It is necessary to reverse the pattern on many parts.

Derward Myrick

>
> It's not necessary to reverse the pattern if you're only using through
> hole components on one side.
> --

2009\08\12@200920 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Derward Myrick<TakeThisOuTwdmyrick.....spamTakeThisOuTearthlink.net> wrote:
> Solarwind, It is necessary to reverse the pattern on many parts.

Could you please provide an example? I don't understand why you would
need to reverse the design if all you are making is a single sided PCB
with only through-hole components on one side (the FR4 side, not the
copper side).

2009\08\12@201547 by peter green

flavicon
face
Derward Myrick wrote:
> Solarwind, It is necessary to reverse the pattern on many parts.
>  
From his diagram of his process it looks to me like he has an effective
reversal in his transfer process so he doesn't need to do a software
reversal for the bottom layer. He would need to do a software reversal
if he was doing a top layer.

2009\08\12@213445 by Carl Denk

flavicon
face
A basic component on many boards is a CPU chip, or 555  timer. Both pin
layouts are asymmetric about both orthogonal (right angle) axis. If you
can't solder components (including sockets) to the same side as the
copper traces if the socket plastic gets in the way, the component must
be located on the other side. Then if the layout was for the component
on the copper side, the traces won't go to the correct pins.

If the layout is only symmetric parts, or they can be mounted either
side (resistor thru the hole leads) then the only issue is the actual
placement of the parts, it is easy to get a part backwards, say if it
has 3 pins like a 7805 regulator, center pin is ground which is OK, but
the outer pins are in and out, don't get it backwards.

solarwind wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Derward Myrick<TakeThisOuTwdmyrickKILLspamspamspamearthlink.net> wrote:
>  
>> Solarwind, It is necessary to reverse the pattern on many parts.
>>    
>
> Could you please provide an example? I don't understand why you would
> need to reverse the design if all you are making is a single sided PCB
> with only through-hole components on one side (the FR4 side, not the
> copper side).
>  

2009\08\12@220422 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Carl Denk<.....cdenkspamRemoveMEwindstream.net> wrote:
> A basic component on many boards is a CPU chip, or 555  timer. Both pin
> layouts are asymmetric about both orthogonal (right angle) axis. If you
> can't solder components (including sockets) to the same side as the
> copper traces if the socket plastic gets in the way, the component must
> be located on the other side. Then if the layout was for the component
> on the copper side, the traces won't go to the correct pins.
>
> If the layout is only symmetric parts, or they can be mounted either
> side (resistor thru the hole leads) then the only issue is the actual
> placement of the parts, it is easy to get a part backwards, say if it
> has 3 pins like a 7805 regulator, center pin is ground which is OK, but
> the outer pins are in and out, don't get it backwards.

Right, but that only matters if you are top soldering and bottom
soldering. If you do it right (solder on the FR4 side only) with only
through-hole components, then no reversal is necessary.

2009\08\12@221757 by Thomas C Sefranek

flavicon
face
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: solarwind
 To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
 Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 6:02 PM
 Subject: Re: [PIC] My simple dev board is not working


 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Wouter van Ooijen<RemoveMEwouterspamspamBeGonevoti.nl> wrote:
 > You soldered the chip ????

 I did not have any DIP sockets handy.

http://hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/SOCKETS/SOCKETS.html


 *
 |  __O    Thomas C. Sefranek  spamBeGonetcs@spam@spamspam_OUTcmcorp.com
 |_-\<,_   Amateur Radio Operator: WA1RHP
 (*)/ (*)  Bicycle mobile on 145.41, 448.625 MHz

ARRL Instructor, Technical Specialist, VE Contact.
hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html
http://www.harvardrepeater.org

2009\08\12@224453 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Thomas C Sefranek<TakeThisOuTwa1rhpspamspamarrl.net> wrote:
> http://hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/SOCKETS/SOCKETS.html

Wow, so that place gives out free parts to students and the students
pay them back with the price of shipping and whatever price they think
is best?

Sounds like a plan! But I live in Canada...

2009\08\12@234531 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Aug 12, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Derward Myrick wrote:

>> It's not necessary to reverse the pattern if you're only using  
>> through
>> hole components on one side.

What he meant was that the process he used reversed the copper side  
without explicit attention; this happens because the toner transfer  
transfers the resists "upside down."  MY question was really "did the  
pattern get reversed from what it should have been."  (I guess not...)

BillW

2009\08\13@002051 by Thomas C Sefranek

flavicon
face
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: solarwind
 To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
 Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:44 PM
 Subject: Re: [PIC] My simple dev board is not working


 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Thomas C Sefranek<wa1rhpEraseMEspamarrl.net> wrote:
 > http://hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/SOCKETS/SOCKETS.html

 Wow, so that place gives out free parts to students and the students
 pay them back with the price of shipping and whatever price they think
 is best?

 Sounds like a plan! But I live in Canada...

"that place" is me!
I ship to Canada.
You should have sockets for your prototypes etc.
BTW, you might view the rest of the inventory.

Tom
 *
 |  __O    Thomas C. Sefranek  RemoveMEtcsEraseMEspamspam_OUTcmcorp.com
 |_-\<,_   Amateur Radio Operator: WA1RHP
 (*)/ (*)  Bicycle mobile on 145.41, 448.625 MHz

ARRL Instructor, Technical Specialist, VE Contact.
hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html
http://www.harvardrepeater.org

2009\08\13@031940 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
All this "reverse" talk is just silly.
It only have to be reversed the layout if
it's wrong in the first place....

By now we all know that is was another
silly error (short between the PGC and Vdd
lines) that should/could have been found
without all this mail traffic...

Jan-Erik.



solarwind wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\08\13@090055 by Derward Myrick

picon face

----- Original Message -----
From: "solarwind" <EraseMEx.solarwind.xspam@spam@gmail.com>

> Could you please provide an example? I don't understand why you would
> need to reverse the design if all you are making is a single sided PCB
> with only through-hole components on one side (the FR4 side, not the
> copper side).

I sent that info before you sent your
drawing showing how you did it.

Some people do not take into account
that it flips over when they iron it on.
With this in mind you must lay it out
with the right view.  If you don't then it
will be backwards on your board.


Derward Myrick


More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2009 , 2010 only
- Today
- New search...