Post by thread:[PIC] Moving code from gpasm to mpasmx

'[PIC] Moving code from gpasm to mpasmx'

I'm returning to PIC programming after a break of a few years (mostly

playing with Raspberry Pis).

I've just installed MPLABX and so far it's been a positive experience.

The one thing I'm not sure about is this....

My old gpasm code has lots of instructions which explicitly set the "B"

bit for variables in banked memory.

Apart from MPLABX using "BANKED" rather than just "B", it seems from the

bits of test code I've written that explicitly setting the banked bit is

no longer required as the assembler (or linker?) can set it when it sees

memory addresses in instructions which are not in the access bank.

Have I got this right ?

PeterO

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In the MPASM guide this bit is called the "a" bit, right?

Like in "DECF f, d, a", not?

And the guide also says:

RAM access bit

a = 0: RAM location in Access RAM (BSR register is ignored)

a = 1: RAM bank is specified by BSR register (default)

Not fully clear what "default" relates to here...

Jan-Erik.

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Onion

Skickat: den 18 november 2016 13:01

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Ämne: [PIC] Moving code from gpasm to mpasmx

I'm returning to PIC programming after a break of a few years (mostly

playing with Raspberry Pis).

I've just installed MPLABX and so far it's been a positive experience.

The one thing I'm not sure about is this....

My old gpasm code has lots of instructions which explicitly set the "B"

bit for variables in banked memory.

Apart from MPLABX using "BANKED" rather than just "B", it seems from the

bits of test code I've written that explicitly setting the banked bit is no

longer required as the assembler (or linker?) can set it when it sees memory

addresses in instructions which are not in the access bank.

Have I got this right ?

PeterO

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On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 12:01:07PM +0000, Peter Onion wrote:

> 

> I'm returning to PIC programming after a break of a few years (mostly

> playing with Raspberry Pis).

> 

> I've just installed MPLABX and so far it's been a positive experience.

> 

I'll leave the technical question for others to address. Reinsertion is a

good time to evaluate platform choices. You've already done one with

MPLABX. But based on your question about banked memory, there are others to

consider.

I've been working on a comparative analysis of Raspberry Pi Zeros to PICS.

The Zero seems to be relatively cost effective for simple high level tasks.

For example my current task with one is converting a chest freezer with a

faulty thermostat into a wirelessly connected refridgerator. Using a 1$ USD

special buy on the Zeros the core ends up being under $10 USD. An added

DS1820 digital temp sensor and an SSD, it's cheap and simple to get a

project going.

The problems are lack of decent peripherals (multiple PWM/CCP, lack of ADC)

and high power consumption. But for simple wall connected tasks, it works

well.

On the PIC side, there have been significant improvements. The PIC24 and

PIC32MX families have real horsepower, decent high level programming

language support, excellent peripherals, and easy hobby packages with 5V

support. My favorite right now is the PIC24FV families of chips in the 20

and 28 pin dip packages. While I still program them in assembly using

Microchips 16 bit assembler, C is available with significant library

support in MPLABX.  Also much lower power consumption is possible.

But at this point, think long and hard before diving back into PIC16F chips

in assembler. I started with the 16C54 25 years ago and ended with the

16F1938 a few years ago. I wouldn't look back to that family unless there

was a significant reason to do so.

Hope this gets you thinking...

BAJ

-- Byron A. Jeff

Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology

College of Information and Mathematical Sciences

Clayton State University

http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff

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At 10:35 AM 11/18/2016, Byron Jeff wrote:

>I've been working on a comparative analysis of Raspberry Pi Zeros to PICS.

>The Zero seems to be relatively cost effective for simple high level tasks..

>For example my current task with one is converting a chest freezer with a

>faulty thermostat into a wirelessly connected refridgerator. Using a 1$ USD

>special buy on the Zeros the core ends up being under $10 USD. An added

>DS1820 digital temp sensor and an SSD, it's cheap and simple to get a

>project going.

Hi there, Byron.

You mention a special buy price of $1 for the Raspberry Pi Zero.  Where was that price available from?  Are you aware of any other low-cost suppliers for the Pi Zero?

Many thanks!

dwayne

-- Dwayne Reid   <.....dwaynerKILLspam.....planet.eon.net>

Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA

780-489-3199 voice   780-487-6397 fax   888-489-3199 Toll Free

http://www.trinity-electronics.com

Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

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>

>

> You mention a special buy price of $1 for the Raspberry Pi

> Zero.  Where was that price available from?  Are you aware of any

> other low-cost suppliers for the Pi Zero?

>

I would also be interested to know such things.

>From what I can tell, the idea of a Pi Zero for $5 is a marketing gimmick.

The few places that will sell a Pi Zero that is _not_ part of a kit have a

limit of one and shipping and handling that at least triple the price. The

limit one prevents me from buying enough to spread the shipping out over

enough to bring it down to what I consider reasonable. Others will only

sell it as part of a kit of stuff that I don't want and the kit price runs

well into the $30 range.

-Denny

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On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 10:08:25AM -0700, Dwayne Reid wrote:

> At 10:35 AM 11/18/2016, Byron Jeff wrote:

> 

> >I've been working on a comparative analysis of Raspberry Pi Zeros to PICS.

> >The Zero seems to be relatively cost effective for simple high level tasks.

> >For example my current task with one is converting a chest freezer with a

> >faulty thermostat into a wirelessly connected refridgerator. Using a 1$ USD

> >special buy on the Zeros the core ends up being under $10 USD. An added

> >DS1820 digital temp sensor and an SSD, it's cheap and simple to get a

> >project going.

> 

> Hi there, Byron.

> 

> You mention a special buy price of $1 for the Raspberry Pi 

> Zero.  Where was that price available from?  Are you aware of any 

> other low-cost suppliers for the Pi Zero?

Microcenter ran a special for $0.99 USD in singles. Unfortunately it didn't

last long. They are back to $5 each. Which honestly is a price I'm happy to

pay.

BAJ

{Quote hidden}> 

> Many thanks!

> 

> dwayne

> 

> -- 

> Dwayne Reid   <EraseMEdwaynerspam_OUTTakeThisOuTplanet.eon.net>

> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA

> 780-489-3199 voice   780-487-6397 fax   888-489-3199 Toll Free

> http://www.trinity-electronics.com

> Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

> 

> -- 

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-- Byron A. Jeff

Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology

College of Information and Mathematical Sciences

Clayton State University

http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff

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Hi all,

On 20/11/2016 18:08, Dwayne Reid wrote:

> At 10:35 AM 11/18/2016, Byron Jeff wrote:

>

>> I've been working on a comparative analysis of Raspberry Pi Zeros to PICS.

>> The Zero seems to be relatively cost effective for simple high level tasks.

>> For example my current task with one is converting a chest freezer with a

>    Where was that price available from?  Are you aware of any

> other low-cost suppliers for the Pi Zero?

>   They are selling the PI Zero under cost. The lowest price is 5 USD. This is the reason that you can buy only one at once!

You can try to contact Element 14 if you want a custom version of a Raspberry, but only from 1000 pieces... I don't understand if also the PI Zero is available (at (very) higher price).

This is a pity and I'm now searching for an alternative... Have a project with a PIC and a PI Zero.

       Nicola

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On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 11:37:51AM -0700, Denny Esterline wrote:

> >

> >

> > You mention a special buy price of $1 for the Raspberry Pi

> > Zero.  Where was that price available from?  Are you aware of any

> > other low-cost suppliers for the Pi Zero?

> >

> 

> I would also be interested to know such things.

> From what I can tell, the idea of a Pi Zero for $5 is a marketing gimmick..

I agree that it is a marketing gimmick due to a supply side production issue. As

Peter stated, the RasPi Foundation is generating the boards on lines

leased from Sony. There isn't enough margin to do continous production. The

line is shared with RasPi 3 production, which does have enough margin to

carry the limited production of the Zeros.

> The few places that will sell a Pi Zero that is _not_ part of a kit have a

> limit of one and shipping and handling that at least triple the price.

An unfortunate consequence of the RasPi foundation requiring retailers to

sell at cost. I'm fortunate enough to have two MicroCenter's in the Atlanta

area where Microcenter essentially eats the shipping from their

distribution centers.  It is a special circumstance I admit.

So while they are available, for most of the retailers the only way to

recoup the cost is to bundle as you have seen, or limit purchases so that

you come into the store (Microcenter) or purchase other items to balance

out the shipping.

> The limit one prevents me from buying enough to spread the shipping out

> over enough to bring it down to what I consider reasonable. 

What limit would make it reasonable? I know for a fact if there isn't a

limit on bare boards, they will be bought in large quantities and then

resold on the tertiary market.

>Others will only

> sell it as part of a kit of stuff that I don't want and the kit price runs

> well into the $30 range.

Agreed. But I cannot see any wide scale distribution at that price point.

For example the back end of that Microcenter 99 cent special was that if

you bought more than one, the price shot up to $10 each I believe. And you

still had to come into the store.

It is clear that the RasPi Foundation isn't interested in subsidizing the

Pi Zero for wide scale production. It seems that the Compute Module is in

fact the target board for that market. And the unsubsidized price on the

Model A compatible compute module is $30. I just read that a RasPI 3

compute module version is on the horizon. However, I haven't see a price

point yet.

BAJ

> 

> 

> -Denny

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-- Byron A. Jeff

Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology

College of Information and Mathematical Sciences

Clayton State University

http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff

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I read the condition to be an invitation to clone. When you look at the deal from that point of view it does make the $5.00 deal real attractive...

On 11/20/2016 2:49 PM, Byron Jeff wrote:

> Microcenter ran a special for $0.99 USD in singles. Unfortunately it didn't

> last long. They are back to $5 each. Which honestly is a price I'm happy to

> pay.

>

> BAJ

>

-- John Ferrell W8CCW

    Julian NC 27283

  It is better to walk alone,

than with a crowd going the wrong direction.

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>

> > The limit one prevents me from buying enough to spread the shipping out

> > over enough to bring it down to what I consider reasonable.

>

> What limit would make it reasonable? I know for a fact if there isn't a

> limit on bare boards, they will be bought in large quantities and then

> resold on the tertiary market.

> <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist>

>

>From a purely economic standpoint, I'd like to see shipping under 10% of

product price. $0.50 on a $5 item may be a bit unreasonable but $5 on a $50

order is more acceptable, or even $10 on a $100 order. Obviously that's not

always reasonable (especially on small orders) so, for some things, I'm

willing to go 20-25%. As it stands, I can buy a $5 Pi zero and shipping is

200-300% and I choke on that. And buying more of them to spread the

shipping cost over a larger order is "prohibited".

I have a (hobby) project idea that would require at least 30 nodes. Pi

Zeros might be a good fit, but as it stands, I can buy them one at a time

for about $20 shipped, or I can buy multiple "kits" at about $45 shipped

(or much more, depending on the "kit"). Or I can order as many Pi 3b's as I

want on Amazon for $35.69 with free shipping.

At $5-$10 per node this is very interesting to me, at $30-$50 per node, not

so much.

-Denny

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Have you had a look at the NanoPi NEO at $8.  I'm considering it for a project under way using the DietPi OS (stripped down/minimalist raspbian/debian) to store pictures from an Ethernet camera and then serve them to a client on request through a web app.

It has a quad core H3 processor and a very small form factor. Processing power is in the range between pi2 and pi3, so way more than the zero.  Good for headless applications as there is no HDMI and fairly power efficient.  The big gotcha is the shipping price, which doubles the cost.  If you need to run it hard it requires a heat sink or it will throttle. http://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=132

Gordon Williams

On 16-11-21 08:37 AM, Denny Esterline wrote:

{Quote hidden}>>> The limit one prevents me from buying enough to spread the shipping out

>>> over enough to bring it down to what I consider reasonable.

>> What limit would make it reasonable? I know for a fact if there isn't a

>> limit on bare boards, they will be bought in large quantities and then

>> resold on the tertiary market.

>> <mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist>

>>

> >From a purely economic standpoint, I'd like to see shipping under 10% of

> product price. $0.50 on a $5 item may be a bit unreasonable but $5 on a $50

> order is more acceptable, or even $10 on a $100 order. Obviously that's not

> always reasonable (especially on small orders) so, for some things, I'm

> willing to go 20-25%. As it stands, I can buy a $5 Pi zero and shipping is

> 200-300% and I choke on that. And buying more of them to spread the

> shipping cost over a larger order is "prohibited".

>

> I have a (hobby) project idea that would require at least 30 nodes. Pi

> Zeros might be a good fit, but as it stands, I can buy them one at a time

> for about $20 shipped, or I can buy multiple "kits" at about $45 shipped

> (or much more, depending on the "kit"). Or I can order as many Pi 3b's as I

> want on Amazon for $35.69 with free shipping.

>

> At $5-$10 per node this is very interesting to me, at $30-$50 per node, not

> so much.

>

> -Denny

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Hi.

The shipping is usually (I'd say always) based on weight,

not based on value of the shipped goods.

Jan-Erik.

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Esterline

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Ämne: Re: [PIC] Moving code from gpasm to mpasmx

{Quote hidden}>

> > The limit one prevents me from buying enough to spread the shipping 

> > out over enough to bring it down to what I consider reasonable.

>

> What limit would make it reasonable? I know for a fact if there isn't 

> a limit on bare boards, they will be bought in large quantities and 

> then resold on the tertiary market.

> <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist>

>

>From a purely economic standpoint, I'd like to see shipping under 10% 

>of

product price. $0.50 on a $5 item may be a bit unreasonable but $5 on a $50

order is more acceptable, or even $10 on a $100 order. Obviously that's not

always reasonable (especially on small orders) so, for some things, I'm

willing to go 20-25%. As it stands, I can buy a $5 Pi zero and shipping is

200-300% and I choke on that. And buying more of them to spread the shipping

cost over a larger order is "prohibited".

I have a (hobby) project idea that would require at least 30 nodes. Pi Zeros

might be a good fit, but as it stands, I can buy them one at a time for

about $20 shipped, or I can buy multiple "kits" at about $45 shipped (or

much more, depending on the "kit"). Or I can order as many Pi 3b's as I want

on Amazon for $35.69 with free shipping.

At $5-$10 per node this is very interesting to me, at $30-$50 per node, not

so much.

-Denny

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I too have been away from PIC tinkering for quite some time.  Been playing

with the Pi boards as well.  Unless one needs the weight of a multitasking

OS and heavy duty network support, I'm a fan of ARM Cortex chips.  For me,

they seem to be a good middle ground between small microcontrollers and

Linux or Android based boards.

I have to admit that I got sucked into the Arduino world because of the C

compiler.  Now that the ide supports larger, faster ARM boards, I'm really

finding it hard to justify fighting with PIC assembler.  Especially with

the cheap ESP8266 boards available.  Up to 160MHz 32 bit and usable WiFi

make for a neat tinkertoy.  That is, after you blow away the preloaded

firmware and install an Arduino compatible boot loader.

That all said, I'm fairly impressed with the speed and peripherals of the

18F45K22 that I had to flash for my Renard SSR based Christmas light

controller.  I've really been out of touch with the advancement of the 8

bit PICs.

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On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 7:59 AM, Jan-Erik SÃ¶derholm <

RemoveMEjan-erik.soderholmTakeThisOuTtelia.com> wrote:

> Hi.

>

> The shipping is usually (I'd say always) based on weight,

> not based on value of the shipped goods.

>

> Jan-Erik.

>

>

Agreed, the _cost_ of shipping is based on many factors almost none of

which correlate to the value of the goods being shipped.

The point of this off-topic (and growing further off topic as I type :-) )

rant is that it's not really a $5 item if I can only buy one at a time and

there's a $15 shipping and handling fee. At least in this case, the _price_

of shipping appears to be being manipulated such that the vendor can make a

profit that has been denied to them the terms of the Pi Foundation.

-Denny

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