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'[PIC] Matching available pics against desired attr'
2005\09\04@173259 by John Nall

picon face
(Dang it, forgot the [PIC] notation AGAIN!!!!!  :-(

I have an old article (vintage 1997) which uses the PIC14C000 in a
project.  It is a nice project, and I would like to work on something of
the sort.  However, I suspect that (a) I could not find a PIC 14C000,
and (b) since 1997 other chips have come out that do the same thing better.

The primary attributes that the 14C000 had for the article were
programmable reference and comparators, and A/D converter.  I looked
around the Microchip site for sort of cross-reference table that might
have all available pics cross-referenced against all available
attributes, but could not find such a thing.

Any suggestion as to where I might find such a cross-reference would be
greatly appreciated.  Failing that (or in addition to that) a suggestion
as to a possible replacement for the 14C000 would also be greatly
appreciated.

John

2005\09\04@181135 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
John Nall wrote :

> I looked
> around the Microchip site for sort of cross-reference table
> that might
> have all available pics cross-referenced against all available
> attributes, but could not find such a thing.

The best you can get, AFAIK, is :

www.microchip.com/ParamChartSearch/chart.aspx?
branchID=1005&mid=10&lang=en&pageId=74

and

www.microchip.com/ParamChartSearch/chart.aspx?
mid=10&lang=en&branchID=1010

But you had seen them, right ?

Jan-Erik.



2005\09\04@183740 by PicDude

flavicon
face
John,

Not exactly a cross-reference, but there are some parametric search tools that
let you choose the parameters and it would return the list of PICs that met
that criteria.  One was put out by Microchip called the PIC calculator, but
it's now old and I've never been able to find an update.  The other is here:
http://melabs.picbasic.com/Scripts/perl/picsearch.pl?action=adv

Cheers,
-Neil.



On Sunday 04 September 2005 04:32 pm, John Nall scribbled:
{Quote hidden}

2005\09\04@184355 by John Nall

picon face
Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:

>http://www.microchip.com/ParamChartSearch/chart.aspx?branchID=1005&mid=10&lang=en&pageId=74
>
>and
>
>www.microchip.com/ParamChartSearch/chart.aspx?
>mid=10&lang=en&branchID=1010
>
>But you had seen them, right ?
>  
>
Wrong.  :-)  I had not seen them.  I'll look through there.  Thanks,
Jan-Erik.

John

2005\09\04@202810 by olin piclist

face picon face
John Nall wrote:
> Any suggestion as to where I might find such a cross-reference would be
> greatly appreciated.  Failing that (or in addition to that) a suggestion
> as to a possible replacement for the 14C000 would also be greatly
> appreciated.

The 14C was a weird one of a kind PIC.  There is no direct replacement.  If
I remember right, it had a 14 bit A/D, which is something no other PIC has
even today.  If 12 bits is enough, use the 30F3013.  It won't be pin
compatible and of course not code compatible, but it should do everything a
the 14C did except for missing a few A/D bits.  If you really need more than
12 bit A/D then you have to use an external A/D with a PIC or some other
micro that has wider A/D like Cygnal.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\09\04@212754 by Jose Da Silva

flavicon
face
On September 4, 2005 05:28 pm, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> John Nall wrote:
> > Any suggestion as to where I might find such a cross-reference
> > would be greatly appreciated.  Failing that (or in addition to
> > that) a suggestion as to a possible replacement for the 14C000
> > would also be greatly appreciated.
>
> The 14C was a weird one of a kind PIC.  There is no direct
> replacement.  If I remember right, it had a 14 bit A/D, which is
> something no other PIC has even today.  If 12 bits is enough, use the
> 30F3013.  It won't be pin compatible and of course not code
> compatible, but it should do everything a the 14C did except for
> missing a few A/D bits.  If you really need more than 12 bit A/D then
> you have to use an external A/D with a PIC or some other micro that
> has wider A/D like Cygnal.

One of the competitors to PIC describes most 12bit A/Ds as 9bit A/D plus
3bit random number generator.

With all the digital powerline noise that happens, I guess there is some
truth in taking the last couple of bits with a grain of salt.

2005\09\04@213512 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> If you really need more than
> 12 bit A/D then you have to use an external A/D with a PIC or some
> other
> micro that has wider A/D like Cygnal.

If speed is not an issue then a Sigma Delta A2D will easily give you
more bits with a few passive external components. And if you have a
multiplexed internal A2D that shares the mux with a comparator (as
some do) then you can add multiple channel Sigma Delta with typically
two resistors and a capacitor.


       RM



2005\09\04@213652 by John Nall

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

> > The 14C was a weird one of a kind PIC.  There is no direct
> replacement.  If
> I remember right, it had a 14 bit A/D, which is something no other PIC
> has
> even today.  If 12 bits is enough, use the 30F3013.  It won't be pin
> compatible and of course not code compatible, but it should do
> everything a
> the 14C did except for missing a few A/D bits.  If you really need
> more than
> 12 bit A/D then you have to use an external A/D with a PIC or some other
> micro that has wider A/D like Cygnal.


Not sure about how many A/D bits are required -- need to look more
closely at the article.  12 bits may very well be enough.  Not being
code-compatible is not a real problem, since the algorithm is well
stated, and that is what counts.  Pin compatible is, of course, not a
problem at all.   However -- the 3013 data sheet does not show the
"programmable reference and comparators" requirement.  Am I missing
something?  

John

2005\09\04@220608 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 05:32 PM 9/4/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>(Dang it, forgot the [PIC] notation AGAIN!!!!!  :-(
>
>I have an old article (vintage 1997) which uses the PIC14C000 in a
>project.  It is a nice project, and I would like to work on something of
>the sort.  However, I suspect that (a) I could not find a PIC 14C000, and
>(b) since 1997 other chips have come out that do the same thing better.
>
>The primary attributes that the 14C000 had for the article were
>programmable reference and comparators, and A/D converter.  I looked
>around the Microchip site for sort of cross-reference table that might
>have all available pics cross-referenced against all available attributes,
>but could not find such a thing.
>
>Any suggestion as to where I might find such a cross-reference would be
>greatly appreciated.  Failing that (or in addition to that) a suggestion
>as to a possible replacement for the 14C000 would also be greatly appreciated.
>
>John

What, if any, is the difference between the PIC14C000 and the PIC14000,
which is currently available (although perhaps not for long)?

This Microchip document has both numbers on it (if you count the chip):
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/30555b.pdf

Looks to me like Microchip just decided to drop the 'C'.

The part has a crummy DAC (suitable for battery charging) and a 16-bit
slope ADC.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
spam_OUTspeffTakeThisOuTspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
->> Inexpensive test equipment & parts http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZspeff


2005\09\05@043010 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Not sure about how many A/D bits are required -- need to look more
>closely at the article.  12 bits may very well be enough.  Not being
>code-compatible is not a real problem, since the algorithm is well
>stated, and that is what counts.  Pin compatible is, of course, not a
>problem at all.   However -- the 3013 data sheet does not show the
>"programmable reference and comparators" requirement.  Am I missing
>something?

Probably not, but one wonders why you need adjustable reference.

However, you could look at using one of the PWM outputs to derive a
reference voltage if you really need to change it on the fly. Feed a
filtered output from that back into the reference input for the A/D should
give you what you need. If it needs to be maintained accurately to a given
full scale voltage, you may need to feed the PWM into a buffer gate chip
which uses a reference diode of the required FS reference as its supply, and
then filter the output of that to get the adjustable reference.

2005\09\05@090621 by John Nall

picon face
Alan B. Pearce wrote:

>> Probably not, but one wonders why you need adjustable reference.
>
>> However, you could look at using one of the PWM outputs to derive a
>reference voltage if you really need to change it on the fly.
>

It is a matter of quoting from the article, and what the author says is
required.  I will admit to not having gone through in depth and
analyzing exactly how he is doing it, and whether there would be
alternate approaches.  For one thing, the mnemonics used for programming
the 14C000 are not familiar.  But it just seemed like the first approach
should be to see if I could use the code he provides.  Someone suggested
that perhaps the 14C000 and the 14000 are the same, and that only the C
was dropped, for reasons that are unclear.  That seems to be the most
promising route to explore for right now.  But if I have to just use the
algorithm and apply it to another chip, that I'll do that.

This article is the AN626 application note that was suggested to me, and
is an algorithm (with code provided) for multiple phase battery
charging.  Since that is exactly what I want to do with the solar panel
charge controller (which is where this thread was originally) it is very
applicable.  This approach requires taking different actions as the
reference voltage of the battery rises, so clearly there would need to
be a programmable reference in order to change as one progresses through
the different stages.  The algorithm is relatively simple, but the devil
is in the details.  :-)

I do appreciate the suggestions, and hope Olin will come back and tell
me whether he thinks the 3013 would be able to do this, since I know
that he is very familiar with its capabilities.  He'll probably chew me
out on one pretext or other, but that is OK.  Nothing is free in this life.

John

2005\09\05@102235 by olin piclist

face picon face
John Nall wrote:
> Not sure about how many A/D bits are required -- need to look more
> closely at the article.  12 bits may very well be enough.  Not being
> code-compatible is not a real problem, since the algorithm is well
> stated, and that is what counts.  Pin compatible is, of course, not a
> problem at all.   However -- the 3013 data sheet does not show the
> "programmable reference and comparators" requirement.  Am I missing
> something?

I've never looked at the 14C closely so I'm not sure what that is.  However,
if you are looking for a to sense voltage above/below some threshold, you
may be able to use the dsPIC A/D for that and do the compare in software.
The dsPIC has more A/D inputs and they are faster, so this may be possible.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\09\05@112903 by John Nall

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

>John Nall wrote:
>  
>
>> >> However -- the 3013 data sheet does not show the
>>"programmable reference and comparators" requirement.  Am I missing
>>something?
>>    
>>
>
>>I've never looked at the 14C closely so I'm not sure what that is.  However,
>if you are looking for a way to sense voltage above/below some threshold, you
>may be able to use the dsPIC A/D for that and do the compare in software.
>The dsPIC has more A/D inputs and they are faster, so this may be possible.
>  
>
Yeah, I'm not sure what that is either.  I was just quoting from the
article.  However, I think that I am falling into the trap of moving
from an area that I am familiar with to an area (within PIC programming,
I mean) that I am not familiar with, so probably the wisest thing to do
at this point is to stop and do some hands-on studying of just exactly
what these things mean.

I have often thought that if I were to teach a class on programming pics
that I would do an overview and then just take each possible peripheral
and study it in detail.  Chapter I:  I/O pins.  Chapter II:  Timer.  
Chapter III:  UART, etc.  And then put all the pieces together.  This is
the way my father taught me to play chess  -- I spent a long time just
mastering the pawn moves before I was allowed to move up to the bishop.  :-)

Thanks, Olin.  I am going to take your advice (as I usually do) and
concentrate on doing it with the 3013.

John

2005\09\05@172951 by Peter

picon face

On Sun, 4 Sep 2005, PicDude wrote:

> Not exactly a cross-reference, but there are some parametric search tools that
> let you choose the parameters and it would return the list of PICs that met
> that criteria.  One was put out by Microchip called the PIC calculator, but
> it's now old and I've never been able to find an update.  The other is here:
> http://melabs.picbasic.com/Scripts/perl/picsearch.pl?action=adv

What I'd like would be a poster format linecard with approximate price
(or a blank place where it can be penciled in)

Peter

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