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'[PIC] MPLAB 8: ready for prime-time yet? [Minor Ra'
2008\02\15@114307 by Bob Axtell

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Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Bob Blick <spam_OUTbbblickTakeThisOuTspamsbcglobal.net> wrote:
>  
>> Marcel Duchamp wrote:
>>    
>>> Hmmm.
>>> I do plan on using my ICD2. So maybe I'll keep on waiting a bit longer.
>>>      
>> Waiting for ICD3?
>>
>>    
>
> I think Microchip should develope ICD3 as soon as possible so that not
> to hurt its business. Or open up the debug protocol of PIC18/PIC24/dsPIC
> and PIC32 so that cheap debugger (including JTAG for PIC24/dsPIC/PIC32).
>
> Real ICE is Microchip's answer to replace ICE2000 (and ICE4000). But there
> is a gap between ICD2 and Real ICE.
>
> Xiaofan
>  
I _LIKE_ the ICE2K. It works very well for me. Works on MPLAB8 as well.
Soldering on the special
socket is costly, but I can manage to make that one socket work on
several PCB's, so I guess it is OK.

The ICD2 now works for me, but only on MPLAB7.4; on anything else it
runs a while and locks up.

- - - -

I am  becoming disappointed with Microchip.

I discovered a flaw in  two different PIC12F devices, and MC never
announced the error but fixed it in the next
revision. I don't care about glory, I just felt sorry about the hundreds
of engineers floundering around needlessly
trying to work around it.

The most convenient development tool is the ICD2, but it doesn't work as
promised. This will hurt Microchip
badly, as people will turn to MSP430 for small applications, because
their dev tools apparently work well, and
TI has my trust and respect.

Atmel makes nice parts but has a bad availability history, so I won't
use 'em. The frogs (ST) has some of
this problem as well, but I use some of their stuff. Maxim is also bad
in this regard, but doesn't make uPs so it
doesn't matter.

Motorola threw away my business and lost my respect many years ago, and
will NEVER be designed into
anything I am involved in.

That doesn't leave a lot of people left, does it?

-- Bob Axtell

2008\02\15@132953 by Funny NYPD

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Now the Freescale seems having much better customer support after it was spinned off from the big Motor. Back to year of 2002, its support was terrible. It will give you a 5 year of lead-time, which most of the customer will think it is a brainless answer.

The ICD2 isn't easy to use for many users. It is mainly because of its two-chip (one for USB and one for ICSP) hardware architecture. Though the ICD2 hardware are not reliable but you can get exchange almost free from Microchip life-time whenever you get one damaged. We are Ok with it. And we have lived with it since year of 2000. There must have a pile of ICD2s we have get them exchanged from Microchip because of all kinds of hardware failure. No complain at all. Poor design sometime means a good opportunity for Good service.

Now the Microchip PICkit2 design seems get rid of the hardware issues which ICD2 has, and still has the in-circuit debugging capability for most of the PIC16s and PIC18s. And it is way lot cheaper.

I love the ICE2000, that's why I have recommend it to many newbies before.

Now I tried debugging using PICkit2, seems working fine on the PIC18F458 chip. To set the PICkit2 up for debugging does take some time and some test, which is the same as the ICD2. On the other hand, the PICkit 2 is definitely a good programmer. Very reliable.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com



{Original Message removed}

2008\02\15@161407 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu [piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu] On
Behalf
{Quote hidden}

Maxim do make micros; mainly fast and 'secure' 8051 variants which they
inherited from Dallas, and their own PIC-like 'MAXQ'.

Mike

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2008\02\15@162102 by Bob Axtell

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Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I didn't know about the MAXQ.

.--Bob A

2008\02\15@164250 by Bob Axtell

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Bob Axtell wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I wonder how expensive the tools are...?  Has anybody used these? A
4-level stack....that seems like a serious
oversight...But I could probably make SOMETHING work...

--Bob Axtell
> .--Bob A
>  

2008\02\15@195903 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Feb 16, 2008 12:42 AM, Bob Axtell <KILLspamengineerKILLspamspamcotse.net> wrote:
> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> > I think Microchip should develope ICD3 as soon as possible so that not
> > to hurt its business. Or open up the debug protocol of PIC18/PIC24/dsPIC
> > and PIC32 so that cheap debugger (including JTAG for PIC24/dsPIC/PIC32).
> >
> > Real ICE is Microchip's answer to replace ICE2000 (and ICE4000). But there
> > is a gap between ICD2 and Real ICE.
> >

> I _LIKE_ the ICE2K. It works very well for me. Works on MPLAB8 as well.
> Soldering on the special socket is costly, but I can manage to make that
> one socket work on several PCB's, so I guess it is OK.
>
> The ICD2 now works for me, but only on MPLAB7.4; on anything else it
> runs a while and locks up.

ICE2000 is way better than ICD2. I liked the ICE2000 when I used it back
in 2000-2002 period. At that time MPLAB 5.x was quite bad but I used
MPLAB+HiTech PICC+ICE2000 and the combination worked fine.

It is said that Real ICE is a good one for those chips it supports.
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=306235
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=282094

But from the Microchip forum there are some stability issues with
Real ICE as well.

Xiaofan

2008\02\15@200442 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Feb 16, 2008 5:42 AM, Bob Axtell <RemoveMEengineerTakeThisOuTspamcotse.net> wrote:
> I wonder how expensive the tools are...?  Has anybody used these? A
> 4-level stack....that seems like a serious
> oversight...But I could probably make SOMETHING work...
>

Do not bother. I think MAXQ is a failed attempt by Maxim.
Maxim wants to get some success in the MCU market by inventing
MAXQ which seems to be of a nice architecture like AVR/MSP430/PIC24.
Apparently they failed. Now only 4 MAXQ MCUs are available.
http://para.maxim-ic.com/cache/en/results/4591.html

Maxim's 8051 used to be a good one. Now they do not make much
sense either since competitor offerings are way better.


Xiaofan

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