Post by thread:[PIC] MP3 Player was [OT] You got to read this in

> Sure as hell doesn't keep "mad people" away though. Me for example - "Mr. I'm > Going To Build An MP3 Player Because It Looks Like Fun". I've got the CPU, > the CODEC is in the post, now I just need to find that pesky 11.2896MHz > (or 16.9344MHz) crystal for the CODEC's clock circuit, and some power supply > components. > > Separate 3.3V AVDD/DVDD, plus 5V for the hard drive. Maybe with a 10F202 to > sequence them on startup, and an 18F4550 for the USB->ATA interface. Wow, I'm [was] going through the same thing. I even got an 18f4550 to read and write to the hdd (with and without an 8255) but gave up when I had to come up with a way to do dynamic memory management and had to learn yet one more thing, how to build a dram controller with a cpld or the like. I was just one more thing to add to the list of "must learn and master" things prior to getting the thing finished. Then I decided to take someonelse's tip to use static ram, but then it would no longer be small enough to carry it around. The breadboard is still there sitting on my bench waiting for me to sit down one day and continue on, but I decided I don't absolutely need to build this, I don't even need an mp3 player, since I already have a laptop in the car. I guess it is true what they say, "don't pick a project too big when you first start" =) I do love the "I built it from scratch myself" pride factor though. So I keep on building things that I have no real need for, but they're still neat =) -Mario

In message <spam_OUT54179.12.38.198.125.1140538680.squirrelTakeThisOuTwebmail.saturn.lunarpages.com>> "Mario Mendes Jr." <.....marioKILLspam@spam@mmendes.com> wrote: > Wow, I'm [was] going through the same thing. I even got an 18f4550 to read > and write to the hdd (with and without an 8255) but gave up when I had to come > up with a way to do dynamic memory management and had to learn yet one more > thing, how to build a dram controller with a cpld or the like. Here's how I'm doing it: [ Samsung LTS180S3-HF1 TFT LCD ] | [ 16Fsomething ]-----------[ ColdFire CPU ]------*----[ Laptop hard drive ] | | | | [ Switches, PSU ] [ Wolfson WM8731 CODEC ] +---[ 18F4550 ]---[ USB ] [ and battery ] | [ management ] [ Headphones ] The 16F links the low-level UI components to the ColdFire via I2C (or maybe SPI). It also manages the power supply sequencing and interrogates the battery's charge gauge IC. The ColdFire is an SCF5250, which has an onboard sound codec. Feed it audio data, and it serialises it and feeds it to the DAC automagically. It also has (IIRC) onboard SPI and I2C, which is used not only to communicate with the 16F, but also to control the CODEC (volume, recording mode, etc.) When the USB cable is connected, the 4550 powers up and immediately signals the ColdFire to ask it to release the ATA bus. Where possible, the ColdFire releases the bus, disables the buffer and passes control over to the 4550. The 4550 then enables its I/O lines, probes the hard drive and enables the USB controller. This stops the contents of the drive changing while the Coldfire is reading from the disc. I might run the "negotiation" section through the 16F - if only so I can add USB battery charging via a Maxim MAX1811 chip. Charging a 2Ah lithium-ion cell at 100mA might take a while though, so I'll probably add a socket for a 1A 5V AC adapter too. Did I mention the ColdFire has an onboard SDRAM controller? Oh yes. Wire it straight to the SDRAM and watch the fun. The big reason I want to build the player is because I'm getting sick of swapping minidiscs. "Hmm, I fancy a bit of Bon Jovi this morning... DAMN! That's on the MD I left on the kitchen table!" Plus I can't find any nice players that support Ogg files. It's all MP3 and WMA and AAC. Sure, I like the iPod, but I don't like having to transcode (or re-rip) my music to MP3 or AAC to play it -- nearly all the stuff on my PC is in Ogg format. Firmware-wise, I'm going to port Rockbox - <http://www.rockbox.org/>. Some of the iAudio hardware is similar to my design, so most of it can be ported over and the memory map tweaked. All I really need to write is the LCD/HID driver. > I guess it is true what they say, "don't pick a project too big when you first > start" =) :P > I do love the "I built it from scratch myself" pride factor though. So I keep > on building things that I have no real need for, but they're still neat =) The big problem at the moment is finding a small hard drive. I'll probably just make the whole thing the same sort of size as a 2.5" HDD and say to hell with the size. As long as it fits in my (rather large) coat pocket, I don't much care. Like I said, I can get Flash and SDRAM chips from Farnell. The big problem is going to be getting my mitts on some suitable clock crystals to drive the CPU and CODEC (the latter is more critical). I can use either an 11.2896MHz or 16.9344MHz parallel-resonant fundamental-mode crystal for the CODEC, but I'm not sure about the CPU yet. Comments? Thanks. -- Phil. | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G ViewFinder philpemKILLspamdsl.pipex.com | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 512M+100G http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G ... Don't use a big word where a diminutive one will suffice.

I just wanted to point out that there's an Atmel that has built-in USB (device) and mp3 decoder and a good amount of CPU power. You can find it on their website. On 2/21/06, Philip Pemberton <.....philpemKILLspam.....dsl.pipex.com> wrote: {Quote hidden}> > In message < > EraseME54179.12.38.198.125.1140538680.squirrelspam_OUTTakeThisOuTwebmail.saturn.lunarpages.com>> > "Mario Mendes Jr." <mariospam_OUTmmendes.com> wrote: > > > Wow, I'm [was] going through the same thing. I even got an 18f4550 to > read > > and write to the hdd (with and without an 8255) but gave up when I had > to come > > up with a way to do dynamic memory management and had to learn yet one > more > > thing, how to build a dram controller with a cpld or the like. > > Here's how I'm doing it: > > [ Samsung LTS180S3-HF1 TFT LCD ] > | > [ 16Fsomething ]-----------[ ColdFire CPU ]------*----[ Laptop hard drive > ] > | | | | > [ Switches, PSU ] [ Wolfson WM8731 CODEC ] +---[ 18F4550 ]---[ USB ] > [ and battery ] | > [ management ] [ Headphones ] > > > The 16F links the low-level UI components to the ColdFire via I2C (or > maybe > SPI). It also manages the power supply sequencing and interrogates the > battery's charge gauge IC. > > The ColdFire is an SCF5250, which has an onboard sound codec. Feed it > audio > data, and it serialises it and feeds it to the DAC automagically. It also > has > (IIRC) onboard SPI and I2C, which is used not only to communicate with the > 16F, but also to control the CODEC (volume, recording mode, etc.) > > When the USB cable is connected, the 4550 powers up and immediately > signals > the ColdFire to ask it to release the ATA bus. Where possible, the > ColdFire > releases the bus, disables the buffer and passes control over to the 4550. > The 4550 then enables its I/O lines, probes the hard drive and enables the > USB controller. This stops the contents of the drive changing while the > Coldfire is reading from the disc. I might run the "negotiation" section > through the 16F - if only so I can add USB battery charging via a Maxim > MAX1811 chip. Charging a 2Ah lithium-ion cell at 100mA might take a while > though, so I'll probably add a socket for a 1A 5V AC adapter too. > > Did I mention the ColdFire has an onboard SDRAM controller? Oh yes. Wire > it > straight to the SDRAM and watch the fun. > > The big reason I want to build the player is because I'm getting sick of > swapping minidiscs. "Hmm, I fancy a bit of Bon Jovi this morning... DAMN! > That's on the MD I left on the kitchen table!" > > Plus I can't find any nice players that support Ogg files. It's all MP3 > and > WMA and AAC. Sure, I like the iPod, but I don't like having to transcode > (or > re-rip) my music to MP3 or AAC to play it -- nearly all the stuff on my PC > is > in Ogg format. > > Firmware-wise, I'm going to port Rockbox - <http://www.rockbox.org/>. Some > of > the iAudio hardware is similar to my design, so most of it can be ported > over > and the memory map tweaked. All I really need to write is the LCD/HID > driver. > > > I guess it is true what they say, "don't pick a project too big when you > first > > start" =) > > :P > > > I do love the "I built it from scratch myself" pride factor though. So > I keep > > on building things that I have no real need for, but they're still neat > =) > > The big problem at the moment is finding a small hard drive. I'll probably > just make the whole thing the same sort of size as a 2.5" HDD and say to > hell > with the size. As long as it fits in my (rather large) coat pocket, I > don't > much care. > > Like I said, I can get Flash and SDRAM chips from Farnell. The big problem > is going to be getting my mitts on some suitable clock crystals to drive > the > CPU and CODEC (the latter is more critical). I can use either an > 11.2896MHz > or 16.9344MHz parallel-resonant fundamental-mode crystal for the CODEC, > but > I'm not sure about the CPU yet. > > Comments? > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G > ViewFinder > @spam@philpemKILLspamdsl.pipex.com | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 > 512M+100G > http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 > 256M+40G > ... Don't use a big word where a diminutive one will suffice. > -

I started with just an 16f877 [generic 4x40 lcd] | [switches]-------[16F877]-------[8255]-------[hdd] | [sta013] | [dac cs4340] Then I wanted the possibility of usb so I switched the pic to an 18f4550 and at the same time removed the 8255 for speed, but that eliminated a bunch of io lines which then led me to investigate an ADC type keyboard, where each key would generate a different voltage with a resistor matrix. As I started the work, I realized that I needed a way to cache large chuncks of data in order to both free up the pic from always being busy issuing ata commands to read the data and also to let the drive go to sleep to save power. This is when I started to investigate the dram and using the old 72-pin computer simms and found out I had to now leard about cpld/fpga to control the dram. So sram became the choice, and I quickly became discouraged by the amount of chips I was going to need to have a sizeable cache of sorts to maintain the file system and cache. >From there I investigated other ways to do it, including an atmel at89c51snd1c which has an ide controler, usb, lcd driver, and mp3 decoding in it, but had the problem with the 3.3v cpu with the 5v hdd as I could not find any readly available 3.3v hdds in the market (maybe I just did not look hard enough), but the atmel chip still did not have a dram controler in it. At this point I started to look for cpus with dram controllers built-in, and even looked at some possibilities of using an ARM cpu, but this is when I remembered I had a dell laptop gathering dust in my office since I had bought a new one for work, so I decided to put it to some good use. I put it in the car with ms streets and trips and a gps sensor to go with it, a g wireless card, and a radio shack fm transmiter to trasmit the mp3s to the radio. It is onlya PIII 533MHz running XP, but since it only plays mp3s and works as a gps receiver is it more than enough. Best of all, it was free as it had been given to me by one of my past employers when I left and they had no more use for it. -Mario {Quote hidden}> I just wanted to point out that there's an Atmel that has built-in USB > (device) and mp3 decoder and a good amount of CPU power. You can find it on > their website. > > On 2/21/06, Philip Pemberton <RemoveMEphilpemTakeThisOuTdsl.pipex.com> wrote: >> >> In message < >> spamBeGone54179.12.38.198.125.1140538680.squirrelspamBeGonewebmail.saturn.lunarpages.com>> >> "Mario Mendes Jr." <TakeThisOuTmarioEraseMEspam_OUTmmendes.com> wrote: >> >> > Wow, I'm [was] going through the same thing. I even got an 18f4550 to >> read >> > and write to the hdd (with and without an 8255) but gave up when I had >> to come >> > up with a way to do dynamic memory management and had to learn yet one >> more >> > thing, how to build a dram controller with a cpld or the like. >> >> Here's how I'm doing it: >> >> [ Samsung LTS180S3-HF1 TFT LCD ] >> | >> [ 16Fsomething ]-----------[ ColdFire CPU ]------*----[ Laptop hard drive >> ] >> | | | | >> [ Switches, PSU ] [ Wolfson WM8731 CODEC ] +---[ 18F4550 ]---[ USB ] >> [ and battery ] | >> [ management ] [ Headphones ] >> >> >> The 16F links the low-level UI components to the ColdFire via I2C (or >> maybe >> SPI). It also manages the power supply sequencing and interrogates the >> battery's charge gauge IC. >> >> The ColdFire is an SCF5250, which has an onboard sound codec. Feed it >> audio >> data, and it serialises it and feeds it to the DAC automagically. It also >> has >> (IIRC) onboard SPI and I2C, which is used not only to communicate with the >> 16F, but also to control the CODEC (volume, recording mode, etc.) >> >> When the USB cable is connected, the 4550 powers up and immediately >> signals >> the ColdFire to ask it to release the ATA bus. Where possible, the >> ColdFire >> releases the bus, disables the buffer and passes control over to the 4550. >> The 4550 then enables its I/O lines, probes the hard drive and enables the >> USB controller. This stops the contents of the drive changing while the >> Coldfire is reading from the disc. I might run the "negotiation" section >> through the 16F - if only so I can add USB battery charging via a Maxim >> MAX1811 chip. Charging a 2Ah lithium-ion cell at 100mA might take a while >> though, so I'll probably add a socket for a 1A 5V AC adapter too. >> >> Did I mention the ColdFire has an onboard SDRAM controller? Oh yes. Wire >> it >> straight to the SDRAM and watch the fun. >> >> The big reason I want to build the player is because I'm getting sick of >> swapping minidiscs. "Hmm, I fancy a bit of Bon Jovi this morning... DAMN! >> That's on the MD I left on the kitchen table!" >> >> Plus I can't find any nice players that support Ogg files. It's all MP3 >> and >> WMA and AAC. Sure, I like the iPod, but I don't like having to transcode >> (or >> re-rip) my music to MP3 or AAC to play it -- nearly all the stuff on my PC >> is >> in Ogg format. >> >> Firmware-wise, I'm going to port Rockbox - <http://www.rockbox.org/>. Some >> of >> the iAudio hardware is similar to my design, so most of it can be ported >> over >> and the memory map tweaked. All I really need to write is the LCD/HID >> driver. >> >> > I guess it is true what they say, "don't pick a project too big when you >> first >> > start" =) >> >> :P >> >> > I do love the "I built it from scratch myself" pride factor though. So >> I keep >> > on building things that I have no real need for, but they're still neat >> =) >> >> The big problem at the moment is finding a small hard drive. I'll probably >> just make the whole thing the same sort of size as a 2.5" HDD and say to >> hell >> with the size. As long as it fits in my (rather large) coat pocket, I >> don't >> much care. >> >> Like I said, I can get Flash and SDRAM chips from Farnell. The big problem >> is going to be getting my mitts on some suitable clock crystals to drive >> the >> CPU and CODEC (the latter is more critical). I can use either an >> 11.2896MHz >> or 16.9344MHz parallel-resonant fundamental-mode crystal for the CODEC, >> but >> I'm not sure about the CPU yet. >> >> Comments? >> >> Thanks. >> -- >> Phil. | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G >> ViewFinder >> RemoveMEphilpemTakeThisOuTdsl.pipex.com | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 >> 512M+100G >> http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 >> 256M+40G >> ... Don't use a big word where a diminutive one will suffice. >> --

The atmel at89c51snd1c is pretty easy to purchase, they're were available at digikey when I purchased 2 of them for playing around (I fried one though). Now the 2c version is another story. But you're right, it's only got the mp3 decoder and you'd have to deal with oggs in software, so no good for you. -Mario {Quote hidden}> In message <RemoveME4545d0e0602211246q45b4c3d6u15f02ade197c3e49spam_OUTKILLspammail.gmail.com>> > "Marcel Birthelmer" <RemoveMEmarcelb.listsTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote: > >> I just wanted to point out that there's an Atmel that has built-in USB >> (device) and mp3 decoder and a good amount of CPU power. You can find it on >> their website. > > And - like most Atmel stuff - it's likely to be manufactured from 99.9993% > pure refined Unobtainium. Well, that or it'll have a 21-week lead time while > they refine the unobtainium to the proper purity... > > Re-read that sentence you wrote - "mp3" and "decoder" are the operative > words. Now read my message again - notice I said I wanted it to play Oggs. > You need a serious amount of CPU horsepower to get Tremor running in > realtime; even more if you consider you need to handle audio buffering too. > Ideally, you want somewhere between 1.25 and 2x realtime so you can keep the > buffer reasonably full during playback, even if the HDD stutters. > > -- > Phil. | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G ViewFinder > EraseMEphilpemspamspamBeGonedsl.pipex.com | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 512M+100G > http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G > ... The future is like the present, only longer. > -