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'[PIC] Large collection of USB PIC related links'
2008\06\01@075516 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=123533

Hope this will help those who want to start with USB PICs.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2008\06\01@092943 by John Chung

picon face
Do you have any links to interfacing bluetooth
modules?
I am looking examples to hook up my PS/2 kb to a
bluetooth HID profile.

Thanks,
John Chung


--- Xiaofan Chen <spam_OUTxiaofancTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:

> http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=123533
>
> Hope this will help those who want to start with USB
> PICs.
>
> Regards,
> Xiaofan
> --

2008\06\01@100428 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:29 PM, John Chung <.....kravnusKILLspamspam@spam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Do you have any links to interfacing bluetooth
> modules?
> I am looking examples to hook up my PS/2 kb to a
> bluetooth HID profile.

No, I have never worked with Bluetooth device myself.

Xiaofan

2008\06\11@065555 by Jinx

face picon face
Xiaofan, a client has asked if a USB memory stick (which I think
is what you're calling a thumb drive) can be added to a 4550 to
log analogue readings and general data

I've had a look through some of the links you provided, especially
those that mentioned mass storage. I'm aware that the 4550 is not
a host, as you point out in the quote below. Do you know if anyone
has a work-around ? Perhaps a peripheral adapter ? A thumb drive
would be most convenient for end users (write with PIC, read with
PC) so I'll pretty much do what it takes if it's possible

=================

http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=304436

Description:  
Will the full speed usb PIC18Fxx5x device, talk to a usb thumb-drive?

Resolution:  
The PIC18Fxx5x (such as the PIC18F4550) cannot be a usb host

This means that you can build any device that is a slave device.  This
basically means that you can connect the PIC18F4550 to a PC, and
program it to be a lave.  However you can not connect a device to
the PIC18F4550 that would need to connect to a PC. This means
you could put code on the '4550 to read a memory card and provide
the data to a PC, but you could not program the '4550 to read a
thumb drive, as the thumb drive needs a host, such as a PC

The reason the thumb drive doesn't work is that the typical usb
thumb drive is a 'slave only' device just like the PIC18F4550. Thus
the PIC18F4550 cannot talk directly to a thumb drive is a slave
device can not talk to a slave device

2008\06\11@070636 by Mark Rages

face picon face
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 5:55 AM, Jinx <joecolquittspamKILLspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
> Xiaofan, a client has asked if a USB memory stick (which I think
> is what you're calling a thumb drive) can be added to a 4550 to
> log analogue readings and general data
>
> I've had a look through some of the links you provided, especially
> those that mentioned mass storage. I'm aware that the 4550 is not
> a host, as you point out in the quote below. Do you know if anyone
> has a work-around ? Perhaps a peripheral adapter ? A thumb drive
> would be most convenient for end users (write with PIC, read with
> PC) so I'll pretty much do what it takes if it's possible

perhaps a microSD card?  The card+reader is about the size of a thumb drive.

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
Mark Rages, Engineer
Midwest Telecine LLC
.....markragesKILLspamspam.....midwesttelecine.com

2008\06\11@070738 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
Jinx wrote:
> I've had a look through some of the links you provided, especially
> those that mentioned mass storage. I'm aware that the 4550 is not
> a host, as you point out in the quote below. Do you know if anyone
> has a work-around ? Perhaps a peripheral adapter ? A thumb drive

Sorry to chime in :) - the usual approach, more comfortable, would be
using a SD card, which only needs a SPI interface, a FAT32 stack, and
can be read on a PC with a simple adapter (new ones have it built in)

--
Ciao, Dario -- ADPM Synthesis sas -- http://www.adpm.tk

2008\06\11@070847 by olin piclist

face picon face
Jinx wrote:
> Xiaofan, a client has asked if a USB memory stick (which I think
> is what you're calling a thumb drive) can be added to a 4550 to
> log analogue readings and general data
>
> I've had a look through some of the links you provided, especially
> those that mentioned mass storage. I'm aware that the 4550 is not
> a host, as you point out in the quote below. Do you know if anyone
> has a work-around ? Perhaps a peripheral adapter ? A thumb drive
> would be most convenient for end users (write with PIC, read with
> PC) so I'll pretty much do what it takes if it's possible

The short answer is a 18F4550 isn't going to talk to a thumb drive.  I would
need a external USB host controller since the internal one is only for
implementing a device.  Those exist, but you'd also have to implement the
USB host function in the firmware, or at least the on-the-go subset.  Some
PIC32 do have USB host capability.

How about something like a digital camera memory card?  Those can usually be
talked to via SPI.  You'd still have to do the FAT file system in fimware,
but that's a lot easier than a USB host driver.  Memory card readers are
cheaply and readily available for PCs.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2008\06\11@071056 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
I think you need a USB-On-The-Go to be able to do that. As far as I concern
the SIE in PIC is not allow you this, but there are some  devices that may
can do the trick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go
http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/1822/

Hope it helps
Tamas


On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Jinx <EraseMEjoecolquittspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTclear.net.nz> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\06\11@071728 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Xiaofan, a client has asked if a USB memory stick (which I think
>is what you're calling a thumb drive) can be added to a 4550 to
>log analogue readings and general data
>
>I've had a look through some of the links you provided, especially
>those that mentioned mass storage. I'm aware that the 4550 is not
>a host, as you point out in the quote below. Do you know if anyone
>has a work-around ? Perhaps a peripheral adapter ? A thumb drive
>would be most convenient for end users (write with PIC, read with
>PC) so I'll pretty much do what it takes if it's possible

This sounds like it really needs a PIC32 with USB-to-Go, but maybe you could
do an interface like someone did with an AVR (IIRC) to do USB interface like
a 4550. Whether one would have enough code space to do the equivalent in the
reverse direction is another matter.

But if they are already using a 4550 why not have it save the data
internally and then download from that ??? If it is remote from where the PC
is then I guess the other solution is to use an SD card in SPI mode, and use
a USB reader to read that.

2008\06\11@073903 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
Alan B. Pearce wrote:
>> Xiaofan, a client has asked if a USB memory stick (which I think
>> is what you're calling a thumb drive) can be added to a 4550 to
>> log analogue readings and general data
>>
>> I've had a look through some of the links you provided, especially
>> those that mentioned mass storage. I'm aware that the 4550 is not
>> a host, as you point out in the quote below. Do you know if anyone
>> has a work-around ? Perhaps a peripheral adapter ? A thumb drive
>> would be most convenient for end users (write with PIC, read with
>> PC) so I'll pretty much do what it takes if it's possible
>
> This sounds like it really needs a PIC32 with USB-to-Go,

Or PIC24F with OTG.
Maybe a more "PIC-like" architecture... :-)

Jan-Erik.

2008\06\11@075153 by Jinx

face picon face
> How about something like a digital camera memory card?  Those
> can usually be talked to via SPI.  You'd still have to do the FAT
> file system in fimware, but that's a lot easier than a USB host driver.
> Memory card readers are cheaply and readily available for PCs

Thanks for the replies. I didn't think I'd missed a solution for a
thumb drive, and did see a lot of references to other memories.
ISTR Microchip has a FAT16 library for SD/MMC

2008\06\11@075751 by Jinx

face picon face
> Or PIC24F with OTG.
> Maybe a more "PIC-like" architecture... :-)

Forgive my ignorance, and TBH the amount of material available
for the USB newbie is bewildering, but is it not possible to bit-
bang USB ? That's not to say I would do that if another option is
available, such as alternate memory, but it seems most protocols
have both hardware and software (ie bit-banging) solutions. Is
that not the case for USB ?

2008\06\11@080333 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Jan-Erik Soderholm
<jan-erik.soderholmspamspam_OUTtelia.com> wrote:
>> This sounds like it really needs a PIC32 with USB-to-Go,
>
> Or PIC24F with OTG.
> Maybe a more "PIC-like" architecture... :-)
>

Yes I agree. Actually the USB Stack (device side) is common for
USB 18F/18J and PIC24. Microchip is offering a separate USB
stack for PIC32.

Xiaofan

2008\06\11@081348 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
Jinx wrote:
>> Or PIC24F with OTG.
>> Maybe a more "PIC-like" architecture... :-)
>
> Forgive my ignorance, and TBH the amount of material available
> for the USB newbie is bewildering, but is it not possible to bit-
> bang USB ? That's not to say I would do that if another option is
> available, such as alternate memory, but it seems most protocols
> have both hardware and software (ie bit-banging) solutions. Is
> that not the case for USB ?

As I understand, USB is a lot more complicated then,
say, I2C, SPI or USART communication.

Jan-Erik.

2008\06\11@082342 by Hazelwood Lyle

flavicon
face
If you prefer a USB thumb drive, FTDI has the Vinculum chip
It handles all the FAT for you, and the interface
is almost like a DOS shell.

Also available with MP3 playback, if you like.

Sorry I can't provide a link, I'm at work.

LyleHaze
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2008\06\11@082812 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
Jinx wrote:

> Forgive my ignorance, and TBH the amount of material available
> for the USB newbie is bewildering, but is it not possible to bit-
> bang USB ? That's not to say I would do that if another option is
> available, such as alternate memory, but it seems most protocols
> have both hardware and software (ie bit-banging) solutions. Is
> that not the case for USB ?

Though difficult and possibly "out of specs", a guy (Angel from Spain)
did develope a USB client in software, with a 16F627.
And it seems to work pretty fine as a HID device.

But, making a Host device in software seems to be much more complicated.
(actually, in hardware too !)

--
Ciao, Dario

2008\06\11@083226 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Jinx <@spam@joecolquittKILLspamspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
>> Or PIC24F with OTG.
>> Maybe a more "PIC-like" architecture... :-)
>
> Forgive my ignorance, and TBH the amount of material available
> for the USB newbie is bewildering, but is it not possible to bit-
> bang USB ? That's not to say I would do that if another option is
> available, such as alternate memory, but it seems most protocols
> have both hardware and software (ie bit-banging) solutions. Is
> that not the case for USB ?

There are bit-bang USB device side firmware for AVR and even
PIC16F84A. However, none of the implementation are fully compatible
with USB specification. I have not heard anything about bit-bang
USB host.

AVRUSB:
http://www.obdev.at/products/avrusb/index.html

Firmware only HID for 16F84A
http://www.telefonica.net/web2/hidlcd/

Xiaofan

2008\06\11@083638 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
Sure, have to bit-banging the port in 1.5mHz or 12mHz in pretty precise,
then have to have enough time to do something about the USB stack. Maybe
with an SX? :-)

It took me around 2 weeks to implement a fw on the 4550 using it's SIE (in
assembly so not using the Microchip USB stack) -- I have no idea how long
would it take to implement the whole lot with bit banging, but maybe I was
just too slow so it's possible to make it faster?

Tamas


On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Jan-Erik Soderholm <
KILLspamjan-erik.soderholmKILLspamspamtelia.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\06\11@084111 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
>>>
"We need use a crystal of  24 Mhz (in a PIC of 20 Mhz) and overclock the PIC
to get 6 MIPS speed process (the clock is divided by four).

  To implement the low speed interface USB 1.1 at 1.5 Mbps we have four
instructions (6 MIPS/1.5Mbps) to process a bit received or sent in the bus.
This make very critics the timeouts."

<<<

Interesting but not so sure if that is any use :-)

Tamas



On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Xiaofan Chen <RemoveMExiaofancTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\06\11@084742 by Jinx

face picon face
> If you prefer a USB thumb drive, FTDI has the Vinculum chip
> It handles all the FAT for you, and the interface is almost like a
> DOS shell.

Thanks for reminding me. I remember now that a previous, now
abandoned, project was going to use a VNC1L-1A and I have
the d/s for it, which says

Add USB host capability to embedded products

. Interface USB Flash drive to MCU / PLD / FPGA
. USB Flash drive to USB Flash drive file transfer interface
. Digital camera to USB Flash drive or other USB slave device interface
. PDA to USB Flash driver or other USB slave device interface
. MP3 Player to USB Flash drive or other USB slave device interface
. MUSB MP3 Player to USB Player
. Mobile phone to USB Flash drive or other USB slave device interface
. GPS to mobile phone interface
. Instrumentation USB Flash drive or other USB slave device interfacing
. Datalogger - USB Flash drive or other USB slave device interface
. Set Top Box - USB device interface

2008\06\11@085421 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> Forgive my ignorance, and TBH the amount of material available
>> for the USB newbie is bewildering, but is it not possible to bit-
>> bang USB ? That's not to say I would do that if another option is
>> available, such as alternate memory, but it seems most protocols
>> have both hardware and software (ie bit-banging) solutions. Is
>> that not the case for USB ?
>
>As I understand, USB is a lot more complicated then,
>say, I2C, SPI or USART communication.

Yes, but the project I referred to used bit-banging on an AVR as a client
device. I imagine the maximum speed was 1.5MB. See
http://www.cesko.host.sk/IgorPlugUSB/IgorPlug-USB%20(AVR)_eng.htm

2008\06\11@085640 by Jinx

face picon face
> I have not heard anything about bit-bang USB host

With your interest in USB Xiaofan, if you haven't heard about
it being done then it's probably not a viable option

2008\06\11@171819 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
Jinx wrote:
> Xiaofan, a client has asked if a USB memory stick (which I think
> is what you're calling a thumb drive) can be added to a 4550 to
> log analogue readings and general data
>
> I've had a look through some of the links you provided, especially
> those that mentioned mass storage. I'm aware that the 4550 is not
> a host, as you point out in the quote below. Do you know if anyone
> has a work-around ? Perhaps a peripheral adapter ? A thumb drive
> would be most convenient for end users (write with PIC, read with
> PC) so I'll pretty much do what it takes if it's possible

http://www.ftdichip.com/FTProducts.htm#Vinculum

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2008\06\20@162614 by Clint Sharp

picon face
In message
<TakeThisOuT74ee72ca0806110406q296ba6e9ua44ed4589acea775EraseMEspamspam_OUTmail.gmail.com>, Mark
Rages <RemoveMEmarkragesspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> writes
>On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 5:55 AM, Jinx <joecolquittEraseMEspam.....clear.net.nz> wrote:
>perhaps a microSD card?  The card+reader is about the size of a thumb drive.
>
Wonder if it would be possible to use an SD card stuck in a USB thumb
type card reader by tapping the connections on the card socket, giving
an 'embedded' USB reader....
--
Clint Sharp

2008\06\21@014831 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 6/11/08, Dario Greggio <EraseMEadpm.tospaminwind.it> wrote:
> Jinx wrote:
> > I've had a look through some of the links you provided, especially
> > those that mentioned mass storage. I'm aware that the 4550 is not
> > a host, as you point out in the quote below. Do you know if anyone
> > has a work-around ? Perhaps a peripheral adapter ? A thumb drive
>
> Sorry to chime in :) - the usual approach, more comfortable, would be
> using a SD card, which only needs a SPI interface, a FAT32 stack, and
> can be read on a PC with a simple adapter (new ones have it built in)

You don't even need any FAT, jut reading raw data stored on the SD.

2008\06\21@063331 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
Vasile Surducan wrote:
> You don't even need any FAT, jut reading raw data stored on the SD.

yeah, if it does not need to be compatible with a PC's OS, all right.

--
Ciao, Dario

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