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'[PIC] LARGE capacity MEMORY for picf876 project'
2004\12\07@103358
by
josh migeri
Dear all
Could someone plse advise me on where I can get LARGE capacity memory chips
to interface with a picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots of it),
off line, and then download it to a PC later.
Kindest regards
Josh Migeri
____________________________________________
2004\12\07@105351
by
Herbert Graf
On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 16:22 -0800, josh migeri wrote:
> Dear all
> Could someone plse advise me on where I can get LARGE capacity memory chips
> to interface with a picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots of it),
> off line, and then download it to a PC later.
Is this project for volume? If not I'd suggest just getting a common
flash card. I used a compact flash card in my carmon project (which does
exactly what you're talking about):
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/carmon
If I were to do it again I would have used an SD card instead (SPI
interface, much simpler) and an 18F or 30F part (therefore no need for
the external EEPROM). TTYL
-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/
____________________________________________
2004\12\07@105709
by
Alan B. Pearce
>Could someone plse advise me on where I can get
>LARGE capacity memory chips to interface with a
>picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots
>of it), off line, and then download it to a PC later.
Is the PCB already laid out? If not then it sounds like you should look at
some of the top end 18F chips, as they have more internal RAM. If it is
already laid out then look at one of the compatable pinout 18F series.
Either way, without knowing just how much memory you need, you are probably
looking at needing ramtron I2C or SPI compatible chips for of-processor
storage.
____________________________________________
2004\12\07@110622
by
Denny Esterline
Define 'LARGE'? There are 512 kb eeproms available and Ramtron has FRAMS
that are bigger than that (1024kb for sure and I think 2048kb) bigger than
that I'd probably recommend a flash memory card like they use for digital
cameras. Check the archives, there's been a couple projects using those
discussed here. (Herbert Graf's Carmon project comes to mind
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/carmon/index.html)
-Denny
>
> Dear all
> Could someone plse advise me on where I can get LARGE capacity memory
chips
> to interface with a picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots of
it),
> off line, and then download it to a PC later.
>
> Kindest regards
>
> Josh Migeri
>
> ______________________________________________
2004\12\07@110625
by
William Chops Westfield
On Dec 7, 2004, at 4:22 PM, josh migeri wrote:
> Could someone plse advise me on where I can get LARGE capacity memory
> chips
> to interface with a picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots of
> it),
> off line, and then download it to a PC later.
>
MMC or SD "flash cards" seem to be the common solution for that sort of
thing.
BillW
____________________________________________
2004\12\07@122713
by
Bob J
Does anyone know if the new USB pics have the ability act as a host?
The cheap usb flash drives that you can now pick up in your drugstore
checkout line would be perfect for this sort of thing.
Regards,
Bob
On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:06:22 -0800, William Chops Westfield
<spam_OUTwestfwTakeThisOuT
mac.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}> On Dec 7, 2004, at 4:22 PM, josh migeri wrote:
>
> > Could someone plse advise me on where I can get LARGE capacity memory
> > chips
> > to interface with a picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots of
> > it),
> > off line, and then download it to a PC later.
> >
> MMC or SD "flash cards" seem to be the common solution for that sort of
> thing.
>
> BillW
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
2004\12\07@124258
by
Peter Moreton
some folk have had great success using MMC or SD data cards
mounted on-pcb, and interfaced to the PIC using regular SPI.
Using this method you can provide 512Mb or more of ram using
just one component. (well, two if you count the card's socket)
The MMC/SD approach also means that you can remove the card,
and load it into a PC for examination (so long as you use
the standard FAT file format)
Peter Moreton
> {Original Message removed}
2004\12\07@124915
by
Herbert Graf
On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 12:26 -0500, Bob J wrote:
> Does anyone know if the new USB pics have the ability act as a host?
>
> The cheap usb flash drives that you can now pick up in your drugstore
> checkout line would be perfect for this sort of thing.
They only can act as slaves. TTYL
-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/
____________________________________________
2004\12\07@132329
by
olin_piclist
Bob J wrote:
> Does anyone know if the new USB pics have the ability act as a host?
Yes. And no they don't.
*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com
____________________________________________
2004\12\07@132718
by
Bob J
2004\12\07@140424
by
Spehro Pefhany
2004\12\07@141228
by
Herbert Graf
2004\12\07@142506
by
Bob Axtell
The easiest to use is MMC and/or SD modules, as they can be interfaced
easily with the SPI port.
I've seem up to 512MB modules sold already as FAT12. The only issue is
that you will need a small
512b buffer, so I'd use a small SPI RAMTRON as temporary storage.
With the PIC18F, you won't even need the RAMTRON.
--Bob
josh migeri wrote:
>Dear all
>Could someone plse advise me on where I can get LARGE capacity memory chips
>to interface with a picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots of it),
>off line, and then download it to a PC later.
>
>Kindest regards
>
>Josh Migeri
>
>_____________________________________________
2004\12\07@144939
by
Kenneth Lumia
|
Using a FAT formatted data card is great, however I'm not sure its
entirely legal (at least without giving Microsoft some royalties).
I was thinking about using a FAT formatted card on a design
recently (and offering the source code) however I found the
following information at:
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp
//***********************************************
A license for manufacturers of certain consumer electronics
devices. Pricing for this license is US$0.25 per unit for each
of the following types of devices that use removable solid state
media to store data: portable digital still cameras; portable digital
video cameras; portable digital still/video cameras; portable
digital audio players; portable digital video players; portable
digital audio/video players; multifunction printers; electronic
photo frames; electronic musical instruments; and standard
televisions. Pricing for this license is US$0.25 per unit with a
cap on total royalties of $250,000 per licensee. Pricing for
other device types can be negotiated with Microsoft.
//***********************************************
Along with the other info on that page it appears you can't
design a product using FAT even if the card is already
formatted.
Someone, please tell me I'm wrong (and why)!
Ken
.....klumiaKILLspam
.....adelphia.net
{Original Message removed}
2004\12\07@151735
by
Robert B.
From: "Peter Moreton" <EraseMEpeter.moretonspam_OUT
TakeThisOuTvirgin.net>
> some folk have had great success using MMC or SD data cards
> mounted on-pcb, and interfaced to the PIC using regular SPI.
> Using this method you can provide 512Mb or more of ram using
> just one component. (well, two if you count the card's socket)
>
> The MMC/SD approach also means that you can remove the card,
> and load it into a PC for examination (so long as you use
> the standard FAT file format)
>
> Peter Moreton
I have a few extra SD cards laying around, and after hearing this
(lightbulb!) I'd like to find some PCB-mount sockets to fit them in to try
this out. Does anybody know an easy supplier? Are there any gotcha's about
the socket designs or compatibilities I should know about? (it seems there
are always some gotchas)
Thanks in advance,
Robert B.
____________________________________________
2004\12\07@153131
by
Peter Moreton
Surface mount SD card sockets are standard parts, quite easy to find. I
purchased a few from RS components, rshttp://www.com, but these are a UK supplier.
IIRC they were made by Amphenol.
Peter Moreton
> {Original Message removed}
2004\12\07@153529
by
Herbert Graf
On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 12:24 -0700, Bob Axtell wrote:
> The easiest to use is MMC and/or SD modules, as they can be interfaced
> easily with the SPI port.
> I've seem up to 512MB modules sold already as FAT12. The only issue is
> that you will need a small
> 512b buffer, so I'd use a small SPI RAMTRON as temporary storage.
>
> With the PIC18F, you won't even need the RAMTRON.
Actually, depending on how you do things, you don't even need 512 bytes
of local storage, you can just write to the SD card as you get data.
It's not the way I did it, but if you can live with the limitations it
is a viable option. TTYL
-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/
____________________________________________
2004\12\07@153610
by
Mark Rages
www.pubpat.org/Microsoft_517_Rejected.htm
Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:49:35 -0500, Kenneth Lumia <klumia
spam_OUTadelphia.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}> Using a FAT formatted data card is great, however I'm not sure its
> entirely legal (at least without giving Microsoft some royalties).
> I was thinking about using a FAT formatted card on a design
> recently (and offering the source code) however I found the
> following information at:
>
> www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp
>
> //***********************************************
> A license for manufacturers of certain consumer electronics
> devices. Pricing for this license is US$0.25 per unit for each
> of the following types of devices that use removable solid state
> media to store data: portable digital still cameras; portable digital
> video cameras; portable digital still/video cameras; portable
> digital audio players; portable digital video players; portable
> digital audio/video players; multifunction printers; electronic
> photo frames; electronic musical instruments; and standard
> televisions. Pricing for this license is US$0.25 per unit with a
> cap on total royalties of $250,000 per licensee. Pricing for
> other device types can be negotiated with Microsoft.
> //***********************************************
>
> Along with the other info on that page it appears you can't
> design a product using FAT even if the card is already
> formatted.
>
> Someone, please tell me I'm wrong (and why)!
>
> Ken
>
@spam@klumiaKILLspam
adelphia.net
>
>
>
>
> {Original Message removed}
2004\12\07@153653
by
Herbert Graf
On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 14:49 -0500, Kenneth Lumia wrote:
> Using a FAT formatted data card is great, however I'm not sure its
> entirely legal (at least without giving Microsoft some royalties).
> I was thinking about using a FAT formatted card on a design
> recently (and offering the source code) however I found the
> following information at:
Actually that is a perfect example of how abused the patent system is
these days.
No worries though, IIRC there was so much prior art present that the
patent office reversed the patent. TTYL
-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/
____________________________________________
2004\12\07@154808
by
Bob Axtell
That's new to me. My documentation seemed clear, to me, it needed a
burst. How does
one do that- just don't send the 8 SPI clocks/data until the data is
ready to be sent? holding
the CS line down the who;le time? Interesting approach, actually that
MIGHT work.
Herb, is that how you mean? I gotta dig into my SanDisk SD book again.
--Bob
Herbert Graf wrote:
{Quote hidden}>On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 12:24 -0700, Bob Axtell wrote:
>
>
>>The easiest to use is MMC and/or SD modules, as they can be interfaced
>>easily with the SPI port.
>>I've seem up to 512MB modules sold already as FAT12. The only issue is
>>that you will need a small
>>512b buffer, so I'd use a small SPI RAMTRON as temporary storage.
>>
>>With the PIC18F, you won't even need the RAMTRON.
>>
>>
>
>Actually, depending on how you do things, you don't even need 512 bytes
>of local storage, you can just write to the SD card as you get data.
>It's not the way I did it, but if you can live with the limitations it
>is a viable option. TTYL
>
>-----------------------------
>Herbert's PIC Stuff:
>
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/
>
>_____________________________________________
2004\12\07@155554
by
Herbert Graf
On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 13:47 -0700, Bob Axtell wrote:
> That's new to me. My documentation seemed clear, to me, it needed a
> burst. How does
> one do that- just don't send the 8 SPI clocks/data until the data is
> ready to be sent? holding
> the CS line down the who;le time? Interesting approach, actually that
> MIGHT work.
>
> Herb, is that how you mean? I gotta dig into my SanDisk SD book again.
Of course. SPI is a synchronous protocol. There is no definition of
"burst" outside of the clock you feed the client. Now, there are SPI
devices out there that probably spec a minimum clock period, but all the
card specs I've see allow you do go down to pretty much DC. TTYL
-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/
____________________________________________
2004\12\07@163243
by
Stef Mientki
Herbert Graf wrote:
{Quote hidden}>On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 12:24 -0700, Bob Axtell wrote:
>
>
>>The easiest to use is MMC and/or SD modules, as they can be interfaced
>>easily with the SPI port.
>>I've seem up to 512MB modules sold already as FAT12. The only issue is
>>that you will need a small
>>512b buffer, so I'd use a small SPI RAMTRON as temporary storage.
>>
>>With the PIC18F, you won't even need the RAMTRON.
>>
>>
>
>Actually, depending on how you do things, you don't even need 512 bytes
>of local storage, you can just write to the SD card as you get data.
>It's not the way I did it, but if you can live with the limitations it
>is a viable option. TTYL
>
>
what limitations ?
And if your incoming data is slow enough, you could perform a
readblock-modify1byte-writeblock,
without storing the complete block into memory.
Stef Mientki
>
>
____________________________________________
2004\12\07@172751
by
Herbert Graf
|
On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 22:32 +0100, Stef Mientki wrote:
{Quote hidden}>
> Herbert Graf wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 12:24 -0700, Bob Axtell wrote:
> >
> >
> >>The easiest to use is MMC and/or SD modules, as they can be interfaced
> >>easily with the SPI port.
> >>I've seem up to 512MB modules sold already as FAT12. The only issue is
> >>that you will need a small
> >>512b buffer, so I'd use a small SPI RAMTRON as temporary storage.
> >>
> >>With the PIC18F, you won't even need the RAMTRON.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Actually, depending on how you do things, you don't even need 512 bytes
> >of local storage, you can just write to the SD card as you get data.
> >It's not the way I did it, but if you can live with the limitations it
> >is a viable option. TTYL
> >
> >
> what limitations ?
>
> And if your incoming data is slow enough, you could perform a
> readblock-modify1byte-writeblock,
> without storing the complete block into memory.
>
> Stef Mientki
The main limitations I can think of off hand is you can't "modify" a
sector (512Byte chunk). This isn't important if you're just writing data
to the card in a simple manner (i.e. the way i do it by having one huge
file on the disk and using other means to determine where writing to
that file stopped). However, if you have to modify sectors (i.e. if you
intend to use the FAT file system to it's fullest) you will require
local storage. For example, if you need to update the FAT chain for the
file you are working on you have to traverse the chain (to find it's
end), modify the last entry to point to the next entry, and modify the
new end entry. This requires reading in a sector, modding a few bytes,
and then writing it out again. For something like this you require local
storage of one sector (512 bytes).
There are also other examples (i.e. modding the directory entry for file
size for the file you're working on, adding a directory entry) that
require modding a sector.
TTYL
-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/
____________________________________________
2004\12\10@024027
by
josh migeri
Thank you all for your great advice. I'll follow it thru.
JOsh Migeri
____________________________________________
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