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PICList Thread
'[PIC] LARGE capacity MEMORY for picf876 project'
2004\12\07@103358 by josh migeri

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Dear all
Could someone plse advise me on where I can get LARGE capacity memory chips
to interface with a picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots of it),
off line, and then download it to a PC later.

Kindest regards

Josh Migeri

____________________________________________

2004\12\07@105351 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 16:22 -0800, josh migeri wrote:
> Dear all
> Could someone plse advise me on where I can get LARGE capacity memory chips
> to interface with a picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots of it),
> off line, and then download it to a PC later.

Is this project for volume? If not I'd suggest just getting a common
flash card. I used a compact flash card in my carmon project (which does
exactly what you're talking about):

http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/carmon

If I were to do it again I would have used an SD card instead (SPI
interface, much simpler) and an 18F or 30F part (therefore no need for
the external EEPROM). TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

____________________________________________

2004\12\07@105709 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Could someone plse advise me on where I can get
>LARGE capacity memory chips to interface with a
>picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots
>of it), off line, and then download it to a PC later.

Is the PCB already laid out? If not then it sounds like you should look at
some of the top end 18F chips, as they have more internal RAM. If it is
already laid out then look at one of the compatable pinout 18F series.
Either way, without knowing just how much memory you need, you are probably
looking at needing ramtron I2C or SPI compatible chips for of-processor
storage.

____________________________________________

2004\12\07@110622 by Denny Esterline

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Define 'LARGE'? There are 512 kb eeproms available and Ramtron has FRAMS
that are bigger than that (1024kb for sure and I think 2048kb) bigger than
that I'd probably recommend a flash memory card like they use for digital
cameras. Check the archives, there's been a couple projects using those
discussed here. (Herbert Graf's Carmon project comes to mind
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/carmon/index.html)


-Denny

>
> Dear all
> Could someone plse advise me on where I can get LARGE capacity memory
chips
> to interface with a picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots of
it),
> off line, and then download it to a PC later.
>
> Kindest regards
>
> Josh Migeri
>
> ______________________________________________

2004\12\07@110625 by William Chops Westfield

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On Dec 7, 2004, at 4:22 PM, josh migeri wrote:

> Could someone plse advise me on where I can get LARGE capacity memory
> chips
> to interface with a picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots of
> it),
> off line, and then download it to a PC later.
>
MMC or SD "flash cards" seem to be the common solution for that sort of
thing.

BillW

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2004\12\07@122713 by Bob J

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Does anyone know if the new USB pics have the ability act as a host?

The cheap usb flash drives that you can now pick up in your drugstore
checkout line would be perfect for this sort of thing.

Regards,
Bob


On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:06:22 -0800, William Chops Westfield
<spam_OUTwestfwTakeThisOuTspammac.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> ______________________________________________

2004\12\07@124258 by Peter Moreton

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some folk have had great success using MMC or SD data cards
mounted on-pcb, and interfaced to the PIC using regular SPI.
Using this method you can provide 512Mb or more of ram using
just one component. (well, two if you count the card's socket)

The MMC/SD approach also means that you can remove the card,
and load it into a PC for examination (so long as you use
the standard FAT file format)

Peter Moreton


> {Original Message removed}

2004\12\07@124915 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 12:26 -0500, Bob J wrote:
> Does anyone know if the new USB pics have the ability act as a host?
>
> The cheap usb flash drives that you can now pick up in your drugstore
> checkout line would be perfect for this sort of thing.

They only can act as slaves. TTYL


-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

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2004\12\07@132329 by olin_piclist

face picon face
Bob J wrote:
> Does anyone know if the new USB pics have the ability act as a host?

Yes.  And no they don't.

*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com
____________________________________________

2004\12\07@132718 by Bob J

picon face
hmmm, wonder if usb-on-the-go is viable.  I haven't heard much on this subject.

See http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/1822

Regards,
Bob


On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:49:13 -0500, Herbert Graf
<.....mailinglist2KILLspamspam@spam@farcite.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2004\12\07@140424 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 01:26 PM 12/7/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>hmmm, wonder if usb-on-the-go is viable.  I haven't heard much on this
>subject.
>
>See http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/1822
>
>Regards,
>Bob

Philips has (have) some processor chips that support it.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
speffspamKILLspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com




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2004\12\07@141228 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 13:26 -0500, Bob J wrote:
> hmmm, wonder if usb-on-the-go is viable.  I haven't heard much on this subject.
>
> See http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/1822

Not with the USB peripheral in the PIC, unless the "slave" you connect
to can act as host. TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

____________________________________________

2004\12\07@142506 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
The easiest to use is MMC and/or SD modules, as they can be interfaced
easily with the SPI port.
I've seem up to 512MB modules sold already as FAT12. The only issue is
that you will need a small
512b buffer, so I'd use a small SPI RAMTRON as temporary storage.

With the PIC18F, you won't even need the RAMTRON.

--Bob

josh migeri wrote:

>Dear all
>Could someone plse advise me on where I can get LARGE capacity memory chips
>to interface with a picf876. The project is to log rs232 data (lots of it),
>off line, and then download it to a PC later.
>
>Kindest regards
>
>Josh Migeri
>
>_____________________________________________

2004\12\07@144939 by Kenneth Lumia

picon face
Using a FAT formatted data card is great, however I'm not sure its
entirely legal (at least without giving Microsoft some royalties).  
I was thinking about using a FAT formatted card on a design
recently (and offering the source code) however I found the
following information at:

http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp

//***********************************************
A license for manufacturers of certain consumer electronics
devices. Pricing for this license is US$0.25 per unit for each
of the following types of devices that use removable solid state
media to store data: portable digital still cameras; portable digital
video cameras; portable digital still/video cameras; portable
digital audio players; portable digital video players; portable
digital audio/video players; multifunction printers; electronic
photo frames; electronic musical instruments; and standard
televisions. Pricing for this license is US$0.25 per unit with a
cap on total royalties of $250,000 per licensee. Pricing for
other device types can be negotiated with Microsoft.
//***********************************************

Along with the other info on that page it appears you can't
design a product using FAT even if the card is already
formatted.  

Someone, please tell me I'm wrong (and why)!

Ken
.....klumiaKILLspamspam.....adelphia.net


{Original Message removed}

2004\12\07@151735 by Robert B.

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From: "Peter Moreton" <EraseMEpeter.moretonspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTvirgin.net>


> some folk have had great success using MMC or SD data cards
> mounted on-pcb, and interfaced to the PIC using regular SPI.
> Using this method you can provide 512Mb or more of ram using
> just one component. (well, two if you count the card's socket)
>
> The MMC/SD approach also means that you can remove the card,
> and load it into a PC for examination (so long as you use
> the standard FAT file format)
>
> Peter Moreton

I have a few extra SD cards laying around, and after hearing this
(lightbulb!) I'd like to find some PCB-mount sockets to fit them in to try
this out.  Does anybody know an easy supplier?  Are there any gotcha's about
the socket designs or compatibilities I should know about? (it seems there
are always some gotchas)

Thanks in advance,

Robert B.


____________________________________________

2004\12\07@153131 by Peter Moreton

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Surface mount SD card sockets are standard parts, quite easy to find. I
purchased a few from RS components, rshttp://www.com, but these are a UK supplier.
IIRC they were made by Amphenol.

Peter Moreton


> {Original Message removed}

2004\12\07@153529 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 12:24 -0700, Bob Axtell wrote:
> The easiest to use is MMC and/or SD modules, as they can be interfaced
> easily with the SPI port.
> I've seem up to 512MB modules sold already as FAT12. The only issue is
> that you will need a small
> 512b buffer, so I'd use a small SPI RAMTRON as temporary storage.
>
> With the PIC18F, you won't even need the RAMTRON.

Actually, depending on how you do things, you don't even need 512 bytes
of local storage, you can just write to the SD card as you get data.
It's not the way I did it, but if you can live with the limitations it
is a viable option. TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

____________________________________________

2004\12\07@153610 by Mark Rages

face picon face
www.pubpat.org/Microsoft_517_Rejected.htm

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail


On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:49:35 -0500, Kenneth Lumia <klumiaspamspam_OUTadelphia.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2004\12\07@153653 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 14:49 -0500, Kenneth Lumia wrote:
> Using a FAT formatted data card is great, however I'm not sure its
> entirely legal (at least without giving Microsoft some royalties).  
> I was thinking about using a FAT formatted card on a design
> recently (and offering the source code) however I found the
> following information at:

Actually that is a perfect example of how abused the patent system is
these days.

No worries though, IIRC there was so much prior art present that the
patent office reversed the patent. TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

____________________________________________

2004\12\07@154808 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
That's new to me. My documentation seemed clear, to me, it needed a
burst. How does
one do that- just don't send the 8 SPI clocks/data until the data is
ready to be sent? holding
the CS line down the who;le time? Interesting approach, actually that
MIGHT work.

Herb, is that how you mean? I gotta dig into my SanDisk SD book again.

--Bob

Herbert Graf wrote:

{Quote hidden}

>_____________________________________________

2004\12\07@155554 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 13:47 -0700, Bob Axtell wrote:
> That's new to me. My documentation seemed clear, to me, it needed a
> burst. How does
> one do that- just don't send the 8 SPI clocks/data until the data is
> ready to be sent? holding
> the CS line down the who;le time? Interesting approach, actually that
> MIGHT work.
>
> Herb, is that how you mean? I gotta dig into my SanDisk SD book again.

Of course. SPI is a synchronous protocol. There is no definition of
"burst" outside of the clock you feed the client. Now, there are SPI
devices out there that probably spec a minimum clock period, but all the
card specs I've see allow you do go down to pretty much DC. TTYL


-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

____________________________________________

2004\12\07@163243 by Stef Mientki

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Herbert Graf wrote:

{Quote hidden}

what limitations ?

And if your incoming data is slow enough, you could perform a
readblock-modify1byte-writeblock,
without storing the complete block into memory.

Stef Mientki

>  
>
____________________________________________

2004\12\07@172751 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 22:32 +0100, Stef Mientki wrote:
{Quote hidden}

The main limitations I can think of off hand is you can't "modify" a
sector (512Byte chunk). This isn't important if you're just writing data
to the card in a simple manner (i.e. the way i do it by having one huge
file on the disk and using other means to determine where writing to
that file stopped). However, if you have to modify sectors (i.e. if you
intend to use the FAT file system to it's fullest) you will require
local storage. For example, if you need to update the FAT chain for the
file you are working on you have to traverse the chain (to find it's
end), modify the last entry to point to the next entry, and modify the
new end entry. This requires reading in a sector, modding a few bytes,
and then writing it out again. For something like this you require local
storage of one sector (512 bytes).

There are also other examples (i.e. modding the directory entry for file
size for the file you're working on, adding a directory entry) that
require modding a sector.

TTYL


-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

____________________________________________

2004\12\10@024027 by josh migeri

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Thank you all for your great advice. I'll follow it thru.

JOsh Migeri

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