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'[PIC] KeeLoq Cracked?'
2008\04\07@071642 by Lindy Mayfield

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Hadn't seen anything here about this yet...

www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2174801.0.scient
ists_crack_security_system_of_millions_of_cars.php



2008\04\07@085356 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu] On
Behalf
> Of Lindy Mayfield
> Sent: 07 April 2008 12:15
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: [PIC] KeeLoq Cracked?
>
> Hadn't seen anything here about this yet...
>
>
www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2174801.0.scient
> ists_crack_security_system_of_millions_of_cars.php

Is this new?  A paper was released by a team in Israel some time last
year showing the weaknesses of Keeloq.
<http://www.cosic.esat.kuleuven.be/keeloq/>

I don't think it's anything like as bad as the media make out to be
honest, if people honestly think that strong encryption in their alarm
remote will prevent their car being stolen they are living on a
different planet.

Mike

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2008\04\07@090941 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Lindy Mayfield
<lindy.mayfieldspamKILLspamssf.sas.com> wrote:
> Hadn't seen anything here about this yet...
>
> www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2174801.0.scient
> ists_crack_security_system_of_millions_of_cars.php
>
Is this a new one or the same as last time? Microchip has a press release
last year about this.
http://eprint.iacr.org/2008/058.pdf
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=277206
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2018&mcparam=en531686

Xiaofan

2008\04\07@124256 by Funny NYPD

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it is just a matter of time. No surprise at all.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com

{Original Message removed}

2008\04\07@132604 by Bob Axtell

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But it doesn't matter. The applications are normally automobile locks, etc.
Who cares.

--Bob A

Funny NYPD wrote:
> it is just a matter of time. No surprise at all.
>  
> Funny N.
> Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com
>
> {Original Message removed}

2008\04\07@135008 by Apptech

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> But it doesn't matter. The applications are normally
> automobile locks, etc.
> Who cares.

It sounds like you drive vehicles similar to what I drive
:-).



       Russell


{Quote hidden}

2008\04\07@140552 by Bob Axtell

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Apptech wrote:
>> But it doesn't matter. The applications are normally
>> automobile locks, etc.
>> Who cares.
>>    
>
> It sounds like you drive vehicles similar to what I drive
> :-).
>
>
>
>         Russell
>
>  
These fancy locks only make money for the automobile dealers. If they
want to
steal your car, they will, and whether Keelog is cracked or not has no
bearing.

--Bob A

2008\04\07@145856 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> These fancy locks only make money for the automobile dealers. If they
> want to
> steal your car, they will, and whether Keelog is cracked or not has no
> bearing.

But (at least in my country) a lot of car thieving is opportunistic:
they thief does not specifically want to steal your car, he just wants
to steal some car. And if your car happens to be easy you are the
"lucky" one.

The fact that Microchip seemed to think that secrecy would enhance the
security of their product always seemed stupid to me. Secrecy might
prevent investigation by scientists, but certainly won't deter organized
crime. Only really strong encryption (public algorithms, public design
rationale, no leak found after lots of academic cracking effort) can.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2008\04\07@153706 by Nicola Perotto

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In the past I found the Keeloq documentation in a russian site...
And was identical to the original that we had (by NDA of course!)


Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\04\07@155410 by Bob Axtell

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Nicola Perotto wrote:
{Quote hidden}

It's pretty easy to crack Microchip device security. I'd like to see
them put a little more effort into it.



--Bob Axtell

2008\04\07@171640 by Nicola Perotto

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Bob Axtell wrote:
> It's pretty easy to crack Microchip device security. I'd like to see
> them put a little more effort into it.
>
>
>
> --Bob Axtell
>  
Are you joking?!?
Sure there are a lot of device that implement in a wrong way the Keeloq
technology but Keeloq is not so bad!
If you follow their recommendations you can have only two ways to crack it:
- brute force attack ;-)
- a flaw in the nonlinear function
    Nicola

2008\04\08@025126 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> If you follow their recommendations you can have only two ways to crack it:
> - brute force attack ;-)
> - a flaw in the nonlinear function

You seem to regard "a flaw in the nonlinear function" as unimportant?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2008\04\08@033139 by Nicola Perotto

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Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>> If you follow their recommendations you can have only two ways to crack it:
>> - brute force attack ;-)
>> - a flaw in the nonlinear function
>>    
>
> You seem to regard "a flaw in the nonlinear function" as unimportant?
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>  
Oh no, of course no!
But none declared that he found that flaw... only strange claims!
     Nicola


> -- -------------------------------------------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu
>
>  

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