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'[PIC] ICD2 won't keep MCLR high'
2009\05\11@142107 by Hasan A. Khan

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Hi,
I am using my icd2 for the first time which I had bought only a month
before icd3 was released but that's a sad story for later...

I am using icd2 to debug/program (ICSP) 16f628A in mplab3.2.  It
connects to target just fine but when I try to run the program (an LED
blinker) I get two errors:

ICD0083: Debug:  Unable to enter debug mode.  Please double click this
message for more information.
ICD0069: Debug:  Unable to run target
Entering Debug Mode
...Programming GOTO 0x00 command
...Restoring users code
MPLAB ICD 2 ready for next operation

I have looked at the help by double clicking the error but none of the
suggestions help me except may be one strange fact.  The MCLR/Vpp pin is
held low by icd2 when in debug/run mode which doesn't make sense because
MCLR is supposed be high for the pic to run.  When I physically
disconnect icd2 Vpp lead from my circuit the pin goes high and pic
starts working fine.  Why would icd2 keep this pin low? I have 10k
resistor connected from MCLR/Vpp to Vdd as recommended by icd docs.

I have an old pic programmer K150 from kitsrus.com I connected this
programmer to the circuit in ICSP mode same thing happens.  It also
keeps Vpp/mclr low.

I changed my pic chip but no difference.

Please HELP!

-Hasan

2009\05\11@150116 by Vitaliy

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Hasan A. Khan wrote:
{Quote hidden}

It makes sense that the ICD2 holds MCLR in reset: because it wasn't able to
enter debug mode. This usually means that the chip could not start up for
some reason.

Program the PIC in release mode, and see if it starts up. If it doesn't,
likely culprits are the oscillator circuit, and the configuration bits.

Vitaliy

2009\05\11@174725 by VICENTE COLOMAR PRATS

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Hi Hasan, just two things you can check:
* Have you a pull-up resistor in MCLR pin?
* mplab3.2??? At the moment Mplab current version is 8.30, so you are using
a very, very old one!

2009/5/11 Hasan A. Khan <spam_OUThasanTakeThisOuTspamkhansden.com>

> Hi,
> I am using my icd2 for the first time which I had bought only a month
> before icd3 was released but that's a sad story for later...
>
> I am using icd2 to debug/program (ICSP) 16f628A in mplab3.2.  It
> connects to target just fine but when I try to run the program (an LED
> blinker) I get two errors:
>
>

2009\05\11@183441 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
The PIC16F628 or F628A cannot enter debug mode, because it doesn't
have that capability. You can PROGRAM it with an ICD2, but that's it.
Check the datasheet.

Switch to PIC16F87 or F88, they have a POWERFUL debug capability.
You'll love 'em.
And the pinout is almost identical to the F628A.

--Bob A

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 2:47 PM, VICENTE COLOMAR PRATS
<.....vicentecolomarKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2009\05\13@051838 by Hasan A. Khan

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Vitaliy wrote:
> It makes sense that the ICD2 holds MCLR in reset: because it wasn't able to
> enter debug mode. This usually means that the chip could not start up for
> some reason.
>
> Program the PIC in release mode, and see if it starts up. If it doesn't,
> likely culprits are the oscillator circuit, and the configuration bits.
>
> Vitaliy
>
>  
I am using internal 4MHz oscillator.  ICD2 docs say, "Target PIC MCU
must be running with an oscillator for MPLAB ICD 2 to function as a
debugger."  I am assuming they don't mean the oscillator must be
external (XT or RC)???

As I said earlier, the chip runs fine when I disconnect mclr/vpp line
meaning, the internal oscillator works in that mode atleast.  I am
trying to build in release mode but it won't but that's a different
issue that I can resolve.

2009\05\13@052342 by Hasan A. Khan

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VICENTE COLOMAR PRATS wrote:
> Hi Hasan, just two things you can check:
> * Have you a pull-up resistor in MCLR pin?
>  
Yes I have a pull-up resistor on MCLR
> * mplab3.2??? At the moment Mplab current version is 8.30, so you are using
> a very, very old one!
>
> 2009/5/11 Hasan A. Khan <.....hasanKILLspamspam.....khansden.com>
>
>  
I upgraded to 3.3 and it made no difference.

2009\05\13@053123 by Hasan A. Khan

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Bob Axtell wrote:
> The PIC16F628 or F628A cannot enter debug mode, because it doesn't
> have that capability. You can PROGRAM it with an ICD2, but that's it.
> Check the datasheet.
>
> Switch to PIC16F87 or F88, they have a POWERFUL debug capability.
> You'll love 'em.
> And the pinout is almost identical to the F628A.
>
> --Bob A
>  
>
I did check the data sheet. I couldn't see where it specifically said
icd2 debug is not supported.  MPLAB shows a few limitations that apply
to f628a but my circuit won't operate even within those limitations.

2009\05\13@061633 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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Hasan A. Khan wrote:
> Bob Axtell wrote:
>> The PIC16F628 or F628A cannot enter debug mode, because it doesn't
>> have that capability. You can PROGRAM it with an ICD2, but that's it.
>> Check the datasheet.
>>
>> Switch to PIC16F87 or F88, they have a POWERFUL debug capability.
>> You'll love 'em.
>> And the pinout is almost identical to the F628A.
>>
>> --Bob A
>>  
>>
> I did check the data sheet. I couldn't see where it specifically said
> icd2 debug is not supported.  MPLAB shows a few limitations that apply
> to f628a but my circuit won't operate even within those limitations.

From the datasheet :

> "A special 28-pin PIC16F648A-ICD device is used with MPLAB
> ICD 2 to provide separate clock, data and MCLR pins and frees
> all normally available pins to the user. Debugging of all
> three versions of the PIC16F627A/628A/648A is supported by
> PIC16F648A-ICD."

So when you say "even within those limitations", does that
meen that you have got an PIC16F648A-ICD ?

2009\05\13@084357 by olin piclist

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Hasan A. Khan wrote:
>> * mplab3.2??? At the moment Mplab current version is 8.30, so you
>> are using a very, very old one!
>
> I upgraded to 3.3 and it made no difference.

So you went from 100 years out of date to only 99 years and expect that to
fix everything!!?  This is a waste of time until you get your head out of
the pleistocene.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\05\13@092511 by VICENTE COLOMAR PRATS

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Hasan, current version is 8.30 maybe you mistake 3 with 8 ?

2009/5/13 Olin Lathrop <EraseMEolin_piclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTembedinc.com>

> Hasan A. Khan wrote:
> >> * mplab3.2??? At the moment Mplab current version is 8.30, so you
> >> are using a very, very old one!
> >
> > I upgraded to 3.3 and it made no difference.
>
>

2009\05\13@115816 by Hasan A. Khan

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Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Hasan A. Khan wrote:
>  
>> I upgraded to 3.3 and it made no difference.
>>    
>
> So you went from 100 years out of date to only 99 years and expect that to
> fix everything!!?  This is a waste of time until you get your head out of
> the pleistocene.
>
>  
I had to look up that word 'pleistocene' in the dictionary :)
I don't know why I kept writing 3.x.  I am sorry.  I am actually using
version 8.3 of mplab.

2009\05\13@120027 by Bob Ammerman

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Olin Lathrop" <olin_piclistspamspam_OUTembedinc.com>


> Hasan A. Khan wrote:
>>> * mplab3.2??? At the moment Mplab current version is 8.30, so you
>>> are using a very, very old one!
>>
>> I upgraded to 3.3 and it made no difference.
>
> So you went from 100 years out of date to only 99 years and expect that to
> fix everything!!?  This is a waste of time until you get your head out of
> the pleistocene.

I am guessing the version numbers quotred are not for MPLAB proper, but for
some component (like the assembler or the firmware for the ICD2 or some
such).

-- Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

2009\05\13@122153 by Bob Axtell

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Yes. What that says is that you need to purchase a special device that
contains debug capability, and that device also contains the extra
registers to emulate (debug) the 648A as well as the 628A and the
627A. With that, you can "debug" the 628A...

But as I said before, the 627A/628A/648A have less capability than the
PIC16F88, which
contains the debugger at almost the same price.

--Bob A

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 3:16 AM, Jan-Erik Soderholm
<@spam@jan-erik.soderholmKILLspamspamtelia.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2009\05\13@123053 by Bob Axtell

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Olin! Don't be so mean! He's a newbie! <G>

--Bob A

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 5:44 AM, Olin Lathrop <KILLspamolin_piclistKILLspamspamembedinc.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2009\05\13@132623 by Hasan A. Khan

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Bob Axtell wrote:
> Yes. What that says is that you need to purchase a special device that
> contains debug capability, and that device also contains the extra
> registers to emulate (debug) the 648A as well as the 628A and the
> 627A. With that, you can "debug" the 628A...
>
> But as I said before, the 627A/628A/648A have less capability than the
> PIC16F88, which
> contains the debugger at almost the same price.
>
> --Bob A
>  
Arrrrgh!  this is sick.  I searched my data sheet for this information
but I couldn't find any and I was getting irritated where you guys were
getting this info from.  I have had my data sheet for while now so I
went on Microchip web site and downloaded the latest and there it was.  
I had a really old version of data sheet and now I am not sure what else
I have missed.  I thought 628A was a fairly old/mature device so never
bothered to check for updated data sheet.  Now I know better.

Regarding changing the chip to F88, I have already done all of the
design work around this chip and don't feel comfortable switching now
since this is my first commercial project and don't want to miss any
deadlines.  In fact I was originally using 16F84 and I was suggested
F628A on this very list.  You guys are experienced with all of these
devices and can manage risks better than I can.  I'll definitely make
ICD capability a factor when deciding the micro for my next project.  
The project is really very simple and I can manage without ICD for now.  
If had the latest data sheet I wouldn't have bothered with ICD.

Thanks for all your help.

  -Hasan

{Quote hidden}

2009\05\13@171112 by Dwayne Reid

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At 12:26 PM 5/13/2009, Hasan A. Khan wrote:
>Bob Axtell wrote:
> > Yes. What that says is that you need to purchase a special device that
> > contains debug capability, and that device also contains the extra
> > registers to emulate (debug) the 648A as well as the 628A and the
> > 627A. With that, you can "debug" the 628A...
>
>I'll definitely make
>ICD capability a factor when deciding the micro for my next project.

Keep in mind that the adapter module is pretty darned inexpensive.  I
keep several of them around for each of the small PICs that I use
that need them - that includes the '628/648 module that Bob was
talking about.  Also keep in mind that Microchip fixes those modules
for free if you should damage them.

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <RemoveMEdwaynerTakeThisOuTspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2009\05\13@180049 by Dennis

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It's time somebody nit-picks Olin a little.

If you're gonna use words like Pleistocene, then you need to CAPITALIZE
IT since it's a name!!!!

Hasan just made a "mammoth" mistake of "epoch" proportions in
communicating the actual version number of his MPLAB (In case your sense
of humor is lacking and you didn't catch that, these were puns!!!!).

Dennis

Hasan A. Khan wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\05\17@133503 by Hasan A. Khan

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Hasan A. Khan wrote:
> The project is really very simple and I can manage without ICD for now.  
> If had the latest data sheet I wouldn't have bothered with ICD.
>
> Thanks for all your help.
>
>    -Hasan
>
>  
I switched MPLAB from debugger to programmer so I could use it as ICSP.  
When program, MPLAB hangs like its hung by its neck :) Except that it
doesn't die.  It just hangs.  Even the Task Manager of WXP can't finish
it off.  If I disconnect USB cable, only then MPLAB dies.  Why does it
hang to begin with?

2009\05\21@163004 by Bob Axtell

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I've never had success with any MPLAB version for ICD2 except MPLAB7.4
or 7.6. The rest (for me) constantly lock up. You meant ICD2?

--Bob

On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Hasan A. Khan <spamBeGonehasanspamBeGonespamkhansden.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

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