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'[PIC] I think I found the perfect chip?'
2009\01\21@213717 by solarwind

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Hey all, I think I found the perfect chip for my calculator project.

It's a 16 bit PIC 24 HJ 128 GP 202 (or 502 with ECAN). 128K flash, 8K
RAM, 28 pin SPDIP. Operates at 3.0 to 3.6 V. What I love about it is
that the Microchip C30 compiler supports long doubles (64 bit)
natively. I'm going to experiment with the compiler/simulator for this
chip and take a look at this datasheet to make sure everything's the
way I want it. I just hope it consumes very little power.

Has anyone used this chip or similar chips? How are they? Do you have
any opinion/advice?

--
solarwind

2009\01\21@230742 by Vitaliy

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"solarwind" wrote:
> Hey all, I think I found the perfect chip for my calculator project.
>
> It's a 16 bit PIC 24 HJ 128 GP 202 (or 502 with ECAN). 128K flash, 8K
> RAM, 28 pin SPDIP. Operates at 3.0 to 3.6 V. What I love about it is
> that the Microchip C30 compiler supports long doubles (64 bit)
> natively. I'm going to experiment with the compiler/simulator for this
> chip and take a look at this datasheet to make sure everything's the
> way I want it. I just hope it consumes very little power.
>
> Has anyone used this chip or similar chips?

Yeah, a PIC24HJ504, in this device:

http://www.ecusim.com

> How are they?

They're OK.


> Do you have
> any opinion/advice?

It's a nice chip, plenty of ROM and RAM, and C30 IMO is much nicer than C18.
What do you want to know, specifically?

Vitaliy

2009\01\22@010940 by solarwind

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On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Vitaliy <spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTspammaksimov.org> wrote:
> "solarwind" wrote:
> Yeah, a PIC24HJ504, in this device:
>
> http://www.ecusim.com
>
>> How are they?
>
> They're OK.
>
>
>> Do you have
>> any opinion/advice?
>
> It's a nice chip, plenty of ROM and RAM, and C30 IMO is much nicer than C18.
> What do you want to know, specifically?
>
> Vitaliy


Yeah, just read up a bit on it and played around with C30. It's really
nice (based on GNU toolchain) so getting MAPM to work shouldn't be too
hard. Also, it supports 64 bit floats nicely but the trig functions
are not accurate to more than 7 decimal places. Other than that, seems
to consume low power, nice package option. I'll order a few off
samples.

I wish PIC32 came in PDIP size. It's such a pain to use QFP for hobby
purposes when you don't have an unlimited supply of cash for making
PCBs.



--
solarwind

2009\01\22@045505 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Hey all, I think I found the perfect chip for my calculator project.
>
>It's a 16 bit PIC 24 HJ 128 GP 202 (or 502 with ECAN).
>Has anyone used this chip or similar chips?
>How are they? Do you have any opinion/advice?

I am currently playing with the 24FJ256GB110 for its USB capability, but I
don't believe this family comes in DIP packages.

The compiler seems to be nice and well behaved, I haven't found any problems
in using it.

The chip architecture seems reasonable. One of the bits I do like is that a
selection of the 'performance peripherals' (UART, SPI, I2C, IC and OC, etc)
are assignable to pins. This allows some flexibility with where on the chip
these peripherals come out, for layout ease, while allowing one to keep base
ports still available as byte or word wide, without creating a hole in the
middle by using a peripheral.

I haven't worked through the ramifications of using a bootloader yet, but
that is on the 'to do' list.

2009\01\22@142032 by Maarten Hofman

face picon face
>
>
> It's a 16 bit PIC 24 HJ 128 GP 202 (or 502 with ECAN). 128K flash, 8K
> RAM, 28 pin SPDIP. Operates at 3.0 to 3.6 V. What I love about it is
> that the Microchip C30 compiler supports long doubles (64 bit)


I have no experience with it, however, 3.0-3.6V means that certain
peripherals won't work properly anymore. I'm not sure which type of display
you were going to use, but most standard HD44780 require 5V. Obviously this
is not a reason not to choose the chip, but something that I would keep in
mind.

Greetings,
Maarten Hofman.

2009\01\22@152224 by solarwind

picon face
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Maarten Hofman <.....cashimorKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have no experience with it, however, 3.0-3.6V means that certain
> peripherals won't work properly anymore.

What do you mean?

> I'm not sure which type of display
> you were going to use, but most standard HD44780 require 5V. Obviously this
> is not a reason not to choose the chip, but something that I would keep in
> mind.

Hmm, how would I boost the voltage levels?

> Greetings,
> Maarten Hofman.

Thanks!

--
solarwind

2009\01\22@155846 by olin piclist

face picon face
solarwind wrote:
>> I'm not sure which type of display
>> you were going to use, but most standard HD44780 require 5V. Obviously
>> this is not a reason not to choose the chip, but something that I
>> would keep in mind.
>
> Hmm, how would I boost the voltage levels?

Why not use a 30F instead of a 24.  Those run on 5V.  There big enough ones
to have plenty of memory for what you are trying to do.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\01\22@163119 by solarwind

picon face
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Olin Lathrop <olin_piclistspamKILLspamembedinc.com> wrote:
> Why not use a 30F instead of a 24.  Those run on 5V.  There big enough ones
> to have plenty of memory for what you are trying to do.

None of those are available in DIP sizes... I might as well use the PIC32.

--
solarwind

2009\01\22@163450 by solarwind

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On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:31 PM, solarwind <.....x.solarwind.xKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Olin Lathrop <EraseMEolin_piclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTembedinc.com> wrote:
>> Why not use a 30F instead of a 24.  Those run on 5V.  There big enough ones
>> to have plenty of memory for what you are trying to do.
>
> None of those are available in DIP sizes... I might as well use the PIC32.

Nevermind, I found that they are available in DIP sizes, but with less
flash and RAM than my PIC 18 F 2620.


--
solarwind

2009\01\22@163600 by solarwind

picon face
dsPIC30F4013 seems cool.

2009\01\22@163855 by solarwind

picon face
I'm desperately trying to find a way to prototype with the PIC32. Some
way to attach it to a breadboard. Once I get that working, I'll never
use a lower end chip again in my life.

2009\01\22@165908 by John Byrnes

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face
Hey Solarwind,
A few weeks ago, Sparkfun released the USB 32-bit Bitwhacker.

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8971

It mounts a PIC32 on a board with a USB port and comes preprogrammed with a
bootloader.  It might do what you need for a prototype. I've never used it,
so I don't know how well it's put together.

Best,
John

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:38 PM, solarwind <x.solarwind.xspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:

> I'm desperately trying to find a way to prototype with the PIC32. Some
> way to attach it to a breadboard. Once I get that working, I'll never
> use a lower end chip again in my life.
> -

2009\01\22@170230 by Joe Bento

face
flavicon
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solarwind wrote:
> I'm desperately trying to find a way to prototype with the PIC32. Some
> way to attach it to a breadboard. Once I get that working, I'll never
> use a lower end chip again in my life.
>  
TQFP / PQFP 64-pin or 100-pin to DIP adaptors are available.

Joe

2009\01\22@170717 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:38:34 -0500, "solarwind"
<@spam@x.solarwind.xKILLspamspamgmail.com> said:
> I'm desperately trying to find a way to prototype with the PIC32. Some
> way to attach it to a breadboard. Once I get that working, I'll never
> use a lower end chip again in my life.


$10 adapters, easy to solder:

http://www.schmartboard.com/index.asp?page=products_qfp

Cheers,

Bob

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Does exactly what it says on the tin

2009\01\22@171944 by Tony Vandiver

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face
Why not just figure out how many pins you want to use, then lay out a
little breakout board that puts the I/O where you want it on your
favorite breadboard?  There's a PIC32 starter kit (DM320003) that's
pretty inexpensive that could serve the same purpose if combined with
the I/O expansion kit (DM320002).  The two together would set you back
about $130, but it does get you started with little work.  The same
amount of money could buy you quite a few barebones breakout boards.

Thanks,

Tony



solarwind wrote:
> I'm desperately trying to find a way to prototype with the PIC32. Some
> way to attach it to a breadboard. Once I get that working, I'll never
> use a lower end chip again in my life.
>  

2009\01\22@180546 by solarwind

picon face
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:58 PM, John Byrnes <KILLspamjohnKILLspamspamnnytech.net> wrote:
> Hey Solarwind,
> A few weeks ago, Sparkfun released the USB 32-bit Bitwhacker.
>
> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8971
>
> It mounts a PIC32 on a board with a USB port and comes preprogrammed with a
> bootloader.  It might do what you need for a prototype. I've never used it,
> so I don't know how well it's put together.
>
> Best,
> John

I was looking at that but don't want to pay $40 for it. There are
eagle files for it and it's all open source though so I might borrow
some ideas off of it.

--
solarwind

2009\01\22@180826 by solarwind

picon face
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Joe Bento <RemoveMEjosephTakeThisOuTspamkirtland.com> wrote:
> TQFP / PQFP 64-pin or 100-pin to DIP adaptors are available.
>
> Joe

Please link me to them.
--
solarwind

2009\01\22@180840 by solarwind

picon face
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Bob Blick <spamBeGonebobblickspamBeGonespamftml.net> wrote:
> $10 adapters, easy to solder:

Already have those.

--
solarwind

2009\01\22@185556 by Joseph Bento

face
flavicon
face

On Jan 22, 2009, at 4:08 PM, solarwind wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Joe Bento <TakeThisOuTjosephEraseMEspamspam_OUTkirtland.com>  
> wrote:
>> TQFP / PQFP 64-pin or 100-pin to DIP adaptors are available.
>>
>> Joe
>
> Please link me to them.

They're not cheap, but I've used this company, E-Pboard before:

http://www.epboard.com/eproducts/protoadapter1.htm#TQFP_LQFP_PQFP_VQFPtoDIPAdapter

Here's another possibility.  If you go to the parent page, there's a  
host of adaptors available:

http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?module=Freaks%20Tools&func=viewItem&item_id=940

Joe

2009\01\22@191621 by Maarten Hofman

face picon face
2009/1/22 solarwind <RemoveMEx.solarwind.xspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com>

> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Maarten Hofman <cashimorEraseMEspam.....gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I have no experience with it, however, 3.0-3.6V means that certain
> > peripherals won't work properly anymore.
>
> What do you mean?


With peripherals I meant chips outside of the PIC, in this case. My
apologies for using a term that also applies to hardware inside the chip.
The display (below) was one example of such a peripheral.


{Quote hidden}

You could use a 74HCxxx series buffer chip, which will automatically convert
the voltages. Undoubtedly there are even dedicated voltage level converters.
You could also locate an LCD display that accepts 3.0V-3.6V inputs, I'm sure
those exist as well. I'm not sure which other hardware you might wish to
connect to your calculator, and which voltages they will run on.

As I said, it is not a deal breaker, but it is something to be aware of.

2009\01\23@064502 by olin piclist

face picon face
solarwind wrote:
>> Why not use a 30F instead of a 24.  Those run on 5V.  There big enough
>> ones to have plenty of memory for what you are trying to do.
>
> None of those are available in DIP sizes... I might as well use the
> PIC32.

There are plenty of 30F availabe in DIP.

********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\01\23@064628 by olin piclist

face picon face
solarwind wrote:
> I'm desperately trying to find a way to prototype with the PIC32. Some
> way to attach it to a breadboard. Once I get that working, I'll never
> use a lower end chip again in my life.

Ever, in your whole life?  That's a really silly statement.

********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\01\23@071320 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
Why do not you buy the PIC32 Starter Kit from Microchip? You do not have to
solder, you have debug facility on it etc. Also you can buy IO expansion
board for that.

http://www.microchip.com/pic32

Tamas




On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 9:38 PM, solarwind <EraseMEx.solarwind.xspamgmail.com> wrote:

> I'm desperately trying to find a way to prototype with the PIC32. Some
> way to attach it to a breadboard. Once I get that working, I'll never
> use a lower end chip again in my life.
> -

2009\01\23@074645 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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Maarten Hofman escreveu:
{Quote hidden}

You will need the 74HCTxxx version. For unidirectional low-to-high
translation it is perfect, but for high-to-low translation you must
ensure the low voltage part is 5V I/O tolerant.

If you need hi-to-low voltage translation and the low voltage part is
not 5V I/O tolerant you must use a 74LVC translator with separated VCC
for each side. The 74LVC8T245 for instance can translate from any
voltage in the 1.8V~5.5V range to any other voltage in the 1.8V~5.5V range.

> the voltages. Undoubtedly there are even dedicated voltage level converters.
> You could also locate an LCD display that accepts 3.0V-3.6V inputs, I'm sure
>  

The HD44780U LCD controller is rated for 2.7V to 5.5V operation.

I've found LCD modules that work OK at 3.0V. They say it uses the
HD44780, but perhaps it is using the 'U' version.


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2009\01\23@113229 by Maarten Hofman

face picon face
>
> You will need the 74HCTxxx version. For unidirectional low-to-high
> translation it is perfect, but for high-to-low translation you must
> ensure the low voltage part is 5V I/O tolerant.
>
You are right, my mistake. For HD44780 LCD, unidirectional is fine, usually
(I tend to tie the R/W to W and just wait for the maximum delay to send the
sequence).


>
> If you need hi-to-low voltage translation and the low voltage part is
> not 5V I/O tolerant you must use a 74LVC translator with separated VCC
> for each side. The 74LVC8T245 for instance can translate from any
> voltage in the 1.8V~5.5V range to any other voltage in the 1.8V~5.5V range.
>

Good to know. Thank you!


{Quote hidden}

All LCD that I had refused to do anything below 4.5V. But then, I didn't
really care, because I was planning to run at 5V anyway. As I said, it's
just something you should be aware of when running at a lower voltage.
Although you should always check for voltage (and current) requirements for
all of your devices anyway.

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