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'[PIC] How to start with PIC programming'
2011\10\18@071453 by jana1972

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Can anyone suggest the best way how to start with PIC programming ?
What must I buy and what software download?
Is there a good tutorial?
What kind of development kit  will I need?

Thanks for help


2011\10\18@074340 by alan.b.pearce

face picon face
> Can anyone suggest the best way how to start with PIC programming ?

Depends what chip you want to start with, and what you want to do with it.

> What must I buy and what software download?

Software to download is MPLAB, which has the assembler, simulator, programmer driving software, and C compilers for a couple of the families. See http://www.microchip.com/MPLAB for the download link. It is a fair size, approaching 100MB these days, so if on a slow link it will take a little while.

You will need to buy a programmer, but these are an acceptable price. A Pickit 2 or Pickit 3 is a good starting point for a beginner.

> Is there a good tutorial?

There are tutorials around, I'll let others point you at suitable ones.

> What kind of development kit  will I need?

Check out the Microchip offerings, there are some basic development boards that come packaged with a Pickit2 or Pickit3 IIRC. These tend to be very good value for getting started.

>
> Thanks for help

You are welcome.


-- Scanned by iCritical.

2011\10\18@074703 by Justin Richards

face picon face
You might want to point your browser over to
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist/begin.htm.

On 18 October 2011 19:14,  <spam_OUTjana1972TakeThisOuTspamcentrum.cz> wrote:
> Can anyone suggest the best way how to start with PIC programming ?
> What must I buy and what software download?
> Is there a good tutorial?
> What kind of development kit  will I need?

2011\10\18@074728 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
jana1972@centrum.cz wrote:
> Can anyone suggest the best way how to start with PIC programming ?
> What must I buy and what software download?
> Is there a good tutorial?
> What kind of development kit  will I need?
>
> Thanks for help
>
>
>
>
>   Which family?

These are not "traditional" PIC and are best programmed in C
The MIPs based core
dsPIC
PIC24
And a couple of others...

These are more "traditional" PIC architecture (What  I call "real" PIC)
10F, 12F, 16F, 18F
They can be programmed in ASM, C, "pascal", "Basic" "Forth"  or JAL. JAL is the only high level language specially designed for them.

The 10F and 12F are for high volume low pin count application.

If your aim is to have rapid development time and  hobby projects get a  Pickit2 programmer and  JAL on a PIC 18F4550 to start with.

You need to tell us more about your goals.

Overview here http://www.techtir.ie/projects/pic  of  10F, 12F, 16F and 18F series
and PIC sites, tools and some sample projects in C and JAL (Strictly actually JALV2)

Other members here would be expert on the other main Microchip cpus with PIC in the name :-)
For me if the PIC18 isn't "powerful" enough I go to non-Microchip MIPS, ARM or x86 designs depending on application.


2011\10\18@091223 by jana1972

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Thanks for the  replies
I checked PickIt3.( assuming it must be better than PICkit2).
And it comes with development board( in PICkit 3 Debug Express)

But also found out that there are more( different) development boards.WHat kind of the development board should I buy ?Which would be the best?

Thanks


{Quote hidden}

> -

2011\10\18@092519 by Byron Jeff

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On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 03:12:13PM +0200, .....jana1972KILLspamspam@spam@centrum.cz wrote:
> Thanks for the  replies
> I checked PickIt3.( assuming it must be better than PICkit2).
> And it comes with development board( in PICkit 3 Debug Express)
>
> But also found out that there are more( different) development boards.WHat kind of the
> development board should I buy ?Which would be the best?

It depends on your needs. Try this. Tell us about the first real project
you'd like to build. There's a vast array of chips, tools, and languages,
and the appropriateness of each really depends on the target. I'll give you
an example. One of my most successful projects was a basement light
controller. It's dead dumb simple: wait for a switch to change indicating
that the basement door is open. Turn on the lights. Wait for the switch to close.
Delay about 90 seconds. Turn off the lights.
Nothing more than a magnetic switch and a relay. I build it about 12 years
ago using a 16F84. Programmed in assembly.

However, if I needed something along the lines of reading WAV files for a
USB stick, doing some DSP processing on the those files, then playing them
using a DAC, then that part (or language) isn't appropriate for that task.

The point is "best" depends on what you are trying to get done. So tell us
what you are trying to do.

BAJ

{Quote hidden}

> > --

2011\10\18@092653 by Ariel Rocholl

picon face
As others said, there are many families and many options. That is actually
something that newcomers in PIC find misleading when compared to, say,
Arduino where there are fewer options to chose and that makes decision
simpler (although not necessarily correct).

If you can afford one, I would suggest getting a Microchip Explorer 16 board
and concentrate on 16bits PIC24 development with C30 Microchip compiler. It
is a very powerful board with lot of options to upgrade to other MCUs just
buying addon cards, as well as daughter cards for many things like SDCard,
Ethernet, etc.

There are some good books out there to start learning PIC24 such as
this<www.amazon.com/Programming-16-Bit-PIC-Microcontrollers-Technology/dp/0750682922/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8>one
which is actually including examples and tutorials for the Explorer 16
board.

Except you have a specific interest on them, I would rather suggest you to
avoid 8bits PIC16F84 and PIC16F877 like pest. They were the only options for
starters years ago, but a PIC24 is a much better micro to learn. If you want
a 8 bits PIC then I would suggest PIC18F2620 but never a PIC16F84.

Hope this helps.

-- Ariel Rocholl
http://www.rf-explorer.com


On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 3:12 PM, <jana1972spamKILLspamcentrum.cz> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> > --

2011\10\18@094639 by jana1972

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Thanks all for the replies.
I would like to start with very simple projects such controlling home gate via SMS
power socket being controlled with SMS
checking movement with PIR
and similar
So, what equipment should I buy?
Thanks

{Quote hidden}

>

2011\10\18@100833 by Chris Roper

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I started with a PIC16f690 on a breadboard, it is cheap, has a nice
set of peripherals (USART, ADC etc.), needs no external clock etc. But
then I had a background in Microprocessors (6800 family from way back)
and a working knowledge of assembler.

If you are just starting and are not sure of assembler and/or
electronics I would suggest the ChipKit boards (PIC32MX based)
http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavPath=2,892&Cat=18 ,
no need to buy a programmer, comes with examples, and a C++ compiler.

If you want middle of the road and more lights and switches on a board
the the Explorer board with PICKit3, but it is more expensive and  a
steeper learning curve to get your first project off the ground.

Cheers
Chri

2011\10\18@101950 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
I usualy recomend the "PICkit 2 Starter Kit".
The one with an demo board with a PIC16F690.

At least in Sweden it has a very good price, aprox
half the price of the PICkit3 without demo board.

Someone mentioned the 16-bit PIC24 stuff. Well, if
your project targets realy are on that level, fine.
If not you'd better go with the "standard" PICs. Much
more info "on the net" and on diferent forums.

What is "SMS" in this context ? Mobile phone text messages?


Jan-Erik


EraseMEjana1972spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTcentrum.cz wrote 2011-10-18 15:46:
{Quote hidden}

2011\10\18@104355 by jana1972

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Hi,
>What is "SMS" in this context ? Mobile phone text messages?
yes


{Quote hidden}

>

2011\10\18@110217 by nextime

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part 1 1242 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (decoded quoted-printable)

On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 01:14:44PM +0200, RemoveMEjana1972TakeThisOuTspamcentrum.cz wrote:
> > Can anyone suggest the best way how to start with PIC programming ?
> What must I buy and what software download?
> Is there a good tutorial?
> What kind of development kit  will I need?
> > Thanks for help


Just a little precisation about wat other already sayed about programmer
and mplab. Take care that mplab and pickit3 are windows only. If you are using
and/or prefer to use another OS, like linux or OSX, don't use pickit3 but use pickit2
instead that has a decent support via pk2cmd, and give a try to the new "mplabX"
as the cross-platform IDE from microchip.

--
Franco (nextime) Lanza
Lonate Pozzolo (VA) - Italy
SIP://spamBeGonecasaspamBeGonespamcasa.nexlab.it

NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org
you can download my public key at:
http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers
Key ID = D6132D50
Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7  4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50
-----------------------------------
echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc
-----------------------------------



part 2 181 bytes content-type:text/plain; name="ATT00001.txt"
(decoded base64)

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2011\10\18@111445 by alan.b.pearce

face picon face
{Quote hidden}

That is going to make a pretty ambitious project.

You should be looking at pages like http://www.wrankl.de/SMST4PIC/SMST4PIC.html or http://www.riccibitti.com/tinyplanet/tiny_intro.htm for inspiration..


-- Scanned by iCritical.

2011\10\18@162501 by Byron Jeff

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On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 03:26:52PM +0200, Ariel Rocholl wrote:
> As others said, there are many families and many options. That is actually
> something that newcomers in PIC find misleading when compared to, say,
> Arduino where there are fewer options to chose and that makes decision
> simpler (although not necessarily correct).

Interesting point.

{Quote hidden}

This statement opens up a big can of worms. While I think we can all agree
that the 16F84/16F877/16F628 type parts are obsolete for novices I think it
may be a bit much to be completely dismissive of the entire 16F midrange
and enhanced family. Newer parts such as the 12F1822, 16F1825, and 16F1938
give excellent peripheral packages, packaging in 8,14,18, and 28 pin SPDIP,
5V operation, clock speeds up to 32 Mhz, at an excellent price point (less
than $2 each in singles). The problem I see with the both the PIC18 and
PIC24 is that their floors in terms of both price and packaging are much
higher than the 16F. Dismissing the entire family gives up the opportunity
to have a price/package efficient set of parts for lower end projects that
really only needs a bit of smarts and a handful of I/O pins.

I know that price is only a part of the equation for hobbyist and students.
But still what exactly does a $5 PIC18F2620 offer that is lacking in a $2
16F1938 that justifies the choice over a series of projects?

BAJ


{Quote hidden}

>

2011\10\18@170052 by Peter Johansson

picon face
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Byron Jeff <byronjeffEraseMEspam.....mail.clayton.edu> wrote:

> I know that price is only a part of the equation for hobbyist and students.
> But still what exactly does a $5 PIC18F2620 offer that is lacking in a $2
> 16F1938 that justifies the choice over a series of projects?

Speaking of which, I have noticed that PIC24 parts are no more
expensive, and often *less* expensive than comparable PIC16/18 parts.
If you are just getting started and need to invest substantial time
learning a new architecture, there is a *lot* to be said with just
starting out with PIC24 if you want to go with the MicroChip brand.

-p

2011\10\18@174746 by cdb

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::I would like to start with very simple projects such
::controlling home gate via SMS power socket being controlled with SMS
::checking movement with PIR and similar

Not wishing to add to any confusion, but MikroElektronika, have some project boards that cover your list - they do require a knowledge of 'C', and their 'C' compiler is not the best.

http://www.mikroe.com/eng/make_projects/index/

I have a range of development boards mostly Microchip, but a couple of easy addons from Mikro.

Colin
--
cdb, EraseMEcolinspambtech-online.co.uk on 19/10/2011
Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk   Hosted by:  http://www.justhost.com.au
 This email is to be considered private if addressed to a named  individual or Personnel Department, and public if addressed to a blog,  forum or news article.

2011\10\18@182147 by IVP

face picon face
> That is going to make a pretty ambitious project

Flashing a LED (perhaps a power LED dimmer) or Hello World
on an LCD is more like a starter

I've done projects using both PIR and SMS and, whilst simple in
concept, they were not 'very simple' to implement

Not to say that the OP shouldn't have a go but I suspect there will
be an awful lot of Hello World steps along the way

Joe

2011\10\18@182332 by arocholl

picon face
Just for the sake of illustrating price/performance, these are Digikey parts
and price for 1 unit:

PIC16F1938                $2.46
search.digikey.com/us/en/products/PIC16F1938-I%2FSO/PIC16F1938-I%2FSO
-ND/2258598 PIC24FJ64GA002        $3.6
search.digikey.com/us/en/products/PIC24FJ64GA002-I%2FSS/PIC24FJ64GA00
2-I%2FSS-ND/1635680
PIC18F2620                $7.42
search.digikey.com/us/en/products/PIC18F2620-I%2FSO/PIC18F2620-I%2FSO
-ND/613227
Venerable obsolete parts just for reference, not really comparable to parts
above:
PIC16F84                $5
search.digikey.com/us/en/cat/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-microco
ntrollers/2556109?k=PIC16F84
PIC16F877                $6.72
search.digikey.com/us/en/cat/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-microco
ntrollers/2556109?k=PIC16F877

These are three comparable devices in the sense they are general purpose,
reasonable RAM & FLASH, all them available in DIP package easy to use for
novices (prices above may not be for DIP though).

Based on price performance by any mean (amount of RAM, MIPS, FLASH,
peripherals) I guess the PIC24 is a clear winner. Only drawback for a newbie
is lack of internal EEPROM, working with FLASH to emulate that is not
trivial.

I don't think a $1/piece difference goes anywhere for "learning quantities"..
However, once you have your tool chain setup, your templates working, and a
few examples done, the PIC24 may be much better served for a
SMS/PIR/Wireless project thank a PIC16F. Just move to a PIC24F256GA006 and
reuse 100% code there for huge RAM and FLASH. That is not an option in
PIC16F nor 18F.

If you upgrade to professional usage and mass production there will be lot
of options to choose the right PIC for the task, which is an art on
itself...

My 2 cents.

{Original Message removed}

2011\10\18@184653 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
arocholl@gmail.com wrote 2011-10-19 00:23:

{Quote hidden}

The PIC16's are clear winners due to the large amount of stuff (code
examples, projects, tutorials, whatever) "out there" on the net. That
by far outweights any artificial price/performance figures which are
mostly irrelevant for a beginner anyway.

There are no 5V PIC24's (right?) which might be limiting factor for
a hobbyist with a junk-box with older 5V stuff like LCD's and so on.




 working with FLASH to emulate that is not
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2011\10\18@190220 by Byron Jeff

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On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 12:23:20AM +0200, RemoveMEarochollEraseMEspamEraseMEgmail.com wrote:
{Quote hidden}

All good points. My main concern is that of all the parts you listed,
only the PIC24 part is a 3.3V part. The datasheet indicates that it has 5V
tolerant inputs. However, there will be serious challenges for a novice
mixing and matching mixed voltage parts. I remember fondly when all the
parallel port PIC programmers stopped working because the parallel port
interface was limited to 3.3V, which is valid for TTL, but failed for CMOS
parts running at 5V.

My KISS criteria for hobby use are as follows:

DIP format
5V operation
internal oscillator
integrated peripherals
cheap

That particular 24F part doesn't meet the 5V operation requirement. There
are 5V parts, but they seem to be limited to 2K RAM if I'm reading
Microchips parametric charts correctly.

I know at the end of the day it's a "to each his own" decision. But looking
at your chart above, it still looks like 16F1938/16F1939 parts meets my
criteria list and still are the best deal.

BAJ

>
> {Original Message removed}

2011\10\18@192537 by arocholl

picon face
>>That particular 24F part doesn't meet the 5V operation requirement. There
are 5V parts, but they seem to be limited to 2K RAM if I'm reading
Microchips parametric charts correctly.
>>I know at the end of the day it's a "to each his own" decision. But
looking at your chart above, it still looks like 16F1938/16F1939 parts meets
my criteria list and still are the best deal.

I couldn't argue against 5V support, you may be right that is probably
important for hobby use. Even though PIC24 are 5V tolerant in all pure
digital pins, it is not suitable for easy interface in/out 5V parts.

-Ariel

2011\10\18@192539 by Chris Roper

picon face
I skipped the 18F and 24F parts and jumped from Assembler on the PIC16
to C on the PIC32.
If the OP wants to use SMS I would definitely recommend doing it in C
rather than assembler, and the PIC16 Parts are not the best platform
for C, hence my jump to PIC32. BUT - Finding example code and
information on the PIC32 is difficult compared to the PIC16

2011\10\18@193811 by Byron Jeff

flavicon
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On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 12:46:54AM +0200, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
{Quote hidden}

But it kind of cuts both ways. On problem with all the material on the net
is that it's targeted towards the obsolete parts. Read a lot of posts on
PICs out there and one would think the 16F84 is the greatest thing since
sliced bread.

Microchip has been really good about moving the goalposts in terms of
useful affordable parts. However, the net hasn't been good about keeping
pace.

The nice thing is that much of the old code will still work on the
enchanced set of 16F parts. But it gets so much better when using the new
features.

>
> There are no 5V PIC24's (right?) which might be limiting factor for
> a hobbyist with a junk-box with older 5V stuff like LCD's and so on.

There are a limited set. Also the parts seem to have 5V tolerant inputs.

That's one of the items on my list.

BAJ

{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2011\10\18@202923 by IVP

face picon face
> Read a lot of posts on PICs out there and one would think the
> 16F84 is the greatest thing since sliced bread

My experience with text and string applications (eg displays and
SMS) is that using a micro with only one FSR and fragmented
RAM is a waste of time. Nothing wrong with the 16F per se but
sometimes they just aren't suitabl

2011\10\18@222313 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
On Wednesday, October 19, 2011 1:29 PM, "IVP"  wrote:

> My experience with text and string applications (eg displays and
> SMS) is that using a micro with only one FSR and fragmented
> RAM is a waste of time. Nothing wrong with the 16F per se but
> sometimes they just aren't suitable

Excellent summary why the 18F is an incremental improvement over the
16F.

And they both can run on 5 volts.

Bob

-- http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

2011\10\19@010958 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 9:46 PM,  <RemoveMEjana1972TakeThisOuTspamspamcentrum.cz> wrote:
> Thanks all for the replies.
> I would like to start with very simple projects such
> controlling home gate via SMS
> power socket being controlled with SMS
> checking movement with PIR
> and similar
> So, what equipment should I buy?
> Thanks

So far all of the answers concentrate on the features of PICs
and which family to choose. They are of course good advice.

And there are a few answers mentioned that this may not
be a "very simple projects" and I certainly agree with this.

Still it is good to tell us your background and your expectations.
That can probably give better ideas to the list members about you
and better advice can probably be given to you on how to start.


-- Xiaofa

2011\10\19@011307 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Michael Watterson <EraseMEmikespamspamspamBeGoneradioway.org> wrote:
> If your aim is to have rapid development time and  hobby projects get a
> Pickit2 programmer and  JAL on a PIC 18F4550 to start with.
>

Not so sure about JAL, but PIC18F2550/4550 may not be a good chip
to get started as other PIC18F parts (eg: PIC18F2620/4620) due to
the USB Stuff. The new comers may be get confused on how
to set up the clock properly for example even if they do not
want to use USB. The examples for PIC18F2550/4550 are also
mostly USB related.

-- Xiaofan

2011\10\19@015549 by LoadCom

flavicon
face
>
> Not so sure about JAL, but PIC18F2550/4550 may not be a good chip
> to get started as other PIC18F parts (eg: PIC18F2620/4620) due to
> the USB Stuff. The new comers may be get confused on how
> to set up the clock properly for example even if they do not
> want to use USB. The examples for PIC18F2550/4550 are also
> mostly USB related.
>
> --
> Xiaofan

I totally agree with this.

If the USB stuff is not what you need at present, then PIC18F2550/4550 is
definitely no so good for beginners. Its setting of configuration bits is
quite confusing.

Max

2011\10\19@042912 by alan.b.pearce

face picon face
> > I know that price is only a part of the equation for hobbyist and students.
> > But still what exactly does a $5 PIC18F2620 offer that is lacking in a $2
> > 16F1938 that justifies the choice over a series of projects?
>
> Speaking of which, I have noticed that PIC24 parts are no more
> expensive, and often *less* expensive than comparable PIC16/18 parts.
> If you are just getting started and need to invest substantial time
> learning a new architecture, there is a *lot* to be said with just
> starting out with PIC24 if you want to go with the MicroChip brand.

The one thing against PIC24 series chips is that they are almost all 3.3V devices, and the internal core voltage rectifier requires extra bypassing. There is the FV series of PIC24 chips which are 5V devices though, and if the OP wants to go the pIC24 route I would recommend using these ones.
-- Scanned by iCritical.

2011\10\19@043134 by alan.b.pearce

face picon face
> There are no 5V PIC24's (right?) which might be limiting factor for
> a hobbyist with a junk-box with older 5V stuff like LCD's and so on.

Wrong, the FV series are 5V and IIRC come in DIP packages as well. They are pin limited (IIRC the largest is 20 or 24 pin).
-- Scanned by iCritical.

2011\10\19@045642 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face


IVP wrote 2011-10-19 02:29:
>> Read a lot of posts on PICs out there and one would think the
>> 16F84 is the greatest thing since sliced bread
>
> My experience with text and string applications (eg displays and
> SMS) is that using a micro with only one FSR and fragmented
> RAM is a waste of time.Nothing wrong with the 16F per se but
> sometimes they just aren't suitable

The 16F1xxx has two FSR's and also MOV instructions with
automatic pre/post inc/dec when readig/wring through the FSR.

The FSR's can be used against the "Linear Data Memory" where all GPR's
(not the non-banked part) is mapped as a continuos address range.

Is that what you ment

2011\10\19@053736 by IVP

face picon face
> The 16F1xxx has two FSR's and also MOV instructions with
> automatic pre/post inc/dec when readig/wring through the FSR.
>
> The FSR's can be used against the "Linear Data Memory" where
> all GPR's (not the non-banked part) is mapped as a continuous
> address range.
>
> Is that what you ment ?

Yes, generally. The enhanced 16F is now covering some of the
ground that the 18F does. You can save a lot of time by picking
the right chip for the job, although I think the huge range of micros
available now makes selection harder, especially for a newcomer

Even if I had to pick one myself now for a new project it would
take me a lot longer than it used to and I'd be worried I missed
something

Jo

2011\10\19@055208 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
On 19/10/2011 06:56, LoadCom wrote:
> I totally agree with this.
>
> If the USB stuff is not what you need at present, then PIC18F2550/4550 is
> definitely no so good for beginners. Its setting of configuration bits is
> quite confusing.
Not in JAL.

It was < 10min to move an 16F877 JAL program to PIC18F4550 and have it running on the hardware. Simply ignoring USB.

Anyway given the problems people have with USB serial adaptors, if  you want a PC interface JAL on 18F + USB is preferable.

I'd rather use an ARM with C or C++ as use 24F or PIC32 (a MIPS)

SMS is easy if you use a phone or module with serial. Easily managed on on a 16F.
I've not done SMS on 16F but have controlled stuff via RDS using a licence free "ilink" kind of low power FM TX with custom RDS inserted. I had SMS interface to SQL database and fax server by a cheap phone plugged into serial port and some simple VB6 with no GUI converted to run as a service.  Nothing a PIC16 with C, JAL or assembler can't do.

You can buy GSM modules with SIM holder and serial port. More expensive packaged ones are sold for alarm systems where there is no landline. The SMS isn't complicated to send or receive. You get also the calling number.


Cheap PIR sensors are just a switch output.

The described project could be simple "lego" with 16F as glue.

I paid about $2.50 or less for my 18Fs  Minuscule for low volume.

I'd only use JAL for 10F, 12F, 16F and 18F. I'd only use something with good C and ideally C++, Linux and Java support if a high end 18F wasn't enough (Iv'e used up to 128K byte Flash 18F)

2011\10\19@060527 by IVP

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> SMS is easy if you use a phone or module with serial. Easily managed
> on a 16F

It can get very convoluted and slow when needing to manipulate strings
such as phone numbers, messages and AT+ commands

I started a major SMS project some years ago using a 16F877 and
quickly realised that was a bad choice. An 18F was faster, had a
better instruction set (which also greatly improved speed), and had a
better architecture. I could have done it with the 16F but would have
got a poorer result for more time spent, and it would have been a
nightmare to maintain

Joe

2011\10\19@063337 by Michael Watterson

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On 19/10/2011 11:05, IVP wrote:
> I started a major SMS project some years ago using a 16F877 and
> quickly realised that was a bad choice. An 18F was faster, had a
> better instruction set (which also greatly improved speed), and had a
> better architecture. I could have done it with the 16F but would have
> got a poorer result for more time spent, and it would have been a
> nightmare to maintain
>
> Joe
>

18F is better. I hope you were not trying to manipulate strings in Assembler.

I have a bunch of JAL string functions I used for 16F877 and 18F4550 CAT control. I ran out of program space on the 16F as I was plotting bargraphs, doing a GUI etc on a GLCD and a bunch of other stuff like tone decoding and generation. I even added RDS decoder with HW assistance.

Speed?

SMS has no prioritisation, It uses spare overhead on the system. It's not real time.

Speed isn't important

2011\10\19@070024 by David Meiklejohn

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This may seem self-serving, but you could take a look at my PIC tutorials at
http://www.gooligum.com.au/tutorials.html.

They introduce the baseline (12-bit: 10F2*, 12F5* and 16F5*) and midrange
(14-bit, non-enhanced: most 12F and 16F) PICs, with lessons in assembler
(relocatable, not absolute!) and C.

The baseline series is finished (but the C lessons need revision to reflect
HI-TECH C compiler changes), but the midrange series is still very much a
work in (slow) progress.  I haven't even covered PWM or serial yet.

The lessons are built around the PICkit2 with Microchip's Low Pin Count demo
board, although often with extra bits (32 kHz clock module, 7-segment LED
displays, photocells as examples of analog sensors) plugged into the header
on the demo board.  To address that I'm developing a training/dev board to
go with my tutorials, which I'll need to revise and expand, but for now it's
just based on that LPC demo board.

My approach is to begin with very simple PICs (hence the baseline start) and
build up - starting with a 12F508, which has so little memory that banking
and paging are not issues and therefore do not have to be discussed in first
lessons.  And no analog to turn off, only a small number of FSRs to discuss,
not many clock options - the idea being that you can really come to terms
with a simple chip, and then through the lessons we progress through PICs,
adding features (more memory, so introduce paging and banking, then analog,
then jump to midrange) so that each feature can be discussed in terms of an
architecture that is already known.  It takes longer, and yes it means
learning with obsolete chips (but NOT the 16F84!!), but in my view leads to
deeper understanding.

But I also have a lot of sympathy for the view of a lot of people here that
a beginner might as well start with a capable PIC with many peripherals and
nice instruction set (enhanced midrange, 18F, 24F), learn one device and
basically stick with it.  That's not the approach that my tutorials take,
but I agree that it has a lot going for it.

Regards,
David Meiklejohn
http://www.gooligum.com.au


{Quote hidden}

2011\10\19@071006 by David Meiklejohn

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Jeff Byron wrote:
>
> Microchip has been really good about moving the goalposts in terms of
> useful affordable parts. However, the net hasn't been good about
> keeping
> pace.

Very true - as a tutorial writer
(http://www.gooligum.com.au/tutorials.html), I've watched with dismay as my
lessons become outdated.

It's not only the PICs.  My C lessons were originally written for Hi-Tech
PICC-Lite, no longer available.  The latest HI-TECH compiler has different
headers, so the tutorial code no longer compiles out of the box.  And the
early lessons show in some detail how to create and build projects, using
MPLAB - which is about to become obsolete!  So I plan to go back and revise
them all, redoing them for MPLAB-X - but it takes so much time, and it's
hard to justify when I don't make any money from it.  I'm planning to sell
development boards targeted to my tutorials, which might make it worthwhile,
but I think that MikroE have a lot of that market sown up.

So anyway, just my perspective on why "the net hasn't been good about
keeping pace" - when you're working for free, keeping up with a moving
target doesn't seem worthwhile...


David Meiklejohn
http://www.gooligum.com.au

2011\10\19@083844 by Chris Roper

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Hi David

> This may seem self-serving, but you could take a look at my PIC tutorials at
> http://www.gooligum.com.au/tutorials.html.

Glad you joined in, it was your tutorials that got me up to speed fast
and also gave me the confidence ( along with the book "Programming
32-bit Microcontrollers in C: Exploring the PIC32" By Lucio Di Jasio)
to step up to the PIC32.

I was trying to find the link but it has been a few years since I last
looked at your site, so thanks, I will bookmark it for next time :)

Cheers
Chri

2011\10\19@113505 by Electron

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Whatever, but I do recommend to use the simulator and watch registers and all to see how they are affected by instructions.

2011\10\19@113531 by Electron

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At 10.31 2011.10.19, you wrote:
>> There are no 5V PIC24's (right?) which might be limiting factor for
>> a hobbyist with a junk-box with older 5V stuff like LCD's and so on.
>
>Wrong, the FV series are 5V and IIRC come in DIP packages as well.
>They are pin limited (IIRC the largest is 20 or 24 pin).

Yes but they are (relatively) expensive. Or so they seemed to me.

2011\10\19@120129 by alan.b.pearce

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> At 10.31 2011.10.19, you wrote:
> >> There are no 5V PIC24's (right?) which might be limiting factor for
> >> a hobbyist with a junk-box with older 5V stuff like LCD's and so on.
> >
> >Wrong, the FV series are 5V and IIRC come in DIP packages as well.
> >They are pin limited (IIRC the largest is 20 or 24 pin).
>
> Yes but they are (relatively) expensive. Or so they seemed to me.

Hmm, must admit haven't checked out the price of that family.


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