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'[PIC] Getting into dsPICs'
2006\04\16@090959 by Picdude

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I'm looking seriously into using a dsPIC for a project, which would otherwise require PID op-amps and other analog control, which is not my forte.  So I'm looking for a nice quick tutorial on dsPICs, aimed towards someone like me who knows PICs, but nothing about DSCs, DSPs, etc.

Any book recommendations?

Any idea if this course is worth it?...
  secure.microchip.com/CorpSeminars/info/NAmer.aspx
...or would fit my needs?

Any other options?  Quick and simple are key here, even if it costs a few more bucks.

Cheers,
-Neil.


2006\04\16@092625 by olin piclist

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Picdude wrote:
> I'm looking seriously into using a dsPIC for a project, ...
>
> Any book recommendations?

There is no substitute for the dsPIC Programmer's Reference Manual and the
dsPIC Family Reference Manual.  These are absolutely required, and once you
read them you won't need anything else.  The programmer's reference
describes the dsPIC core architecture and instruction set.  The family
reference mostly describes the various peripherals.  For dsPICs, the data
sheet is not very useful.  It mostly tells you what mix of peripherals and
memory a particular chip has, but you have to look up the details in the
family reference manual for those peripherals.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\04\16@105521 by davedilatush

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Picdude wrote...

>I'm looking seriously into using a dsPIC for a project...

Good!  I recommend them, they're VERY easy to use.

>So I'm looking for a nice quick tutorial on dsPICs...

I don't know of any tutorials; I could have used one myself back
when I started, but didn't find any.  I just downloaded the
datasheets, the dsPIC30F Family Reference Manual, the dsPIC30F
Programmer's Reference Manual, ordered a couple of dsPICs from
Digi-Key, and dove right in.

Expect to climb a pretty significant learning curve with these
things; the dsPICs themselves are quite different from the
"lesser" PICs, and the development tools (ASM30 and LINK30) take
some getting used to as well. (At least they did for this aging
op-amp jockey; YMMV.)

But the pain only lasts a few hours, or days, and once you have
done with the head-scratching and have come up to speed, the
dsPICs are a breeze.  I find that dsPIC ASM code tends to be much
more compact than that for the PIC18Fs and (especially) the
PIC16s, partly due to the 16-bit data path and partly due to the
much more powerful instruction set.

>Any book recommendations?

There is a book, "Intelligent Sensor Design Using the Microchip
dsPIC", by Creed Huddleston, but it has not been released yet.
It may be vaporware; I've been waiting for my copy 7 months now.

Hope this helps a bit...

Dave D.

2006\04\16@110528 by Herbert Graf

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On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 06:09 -0700, Picdude wrote:
> I'm looking seriously into using a dsPIC for a project, which would otherwise require PID op-amps and other analog control, which is not my forte.  So I'm looking for a nice quick tutorial on dsPICs, aimed towards someone like me who knows PICs, but nothing about DSCs, DSPs, etc.
>
> Any book recommendations?
>
> Any idea if this course is worth it?...
>    secure.microchip.com/CorpSeminars/info/NAmer.aspx
> ...or would fit my needs?
>
> Any other options?  Quick and simple are key here, even if it costs a few more bucks.

I can't recommend any tutorial or that course, however, I do recommend
that if you are familiar with PIC in general the programmers reference
and datasheets are really all you need.

Provided you don't look at the DSP stuff, the 30F series can be thought
of as "big" PICs, with less annoyances, more speed and a larger
instruction set.

For my first 30F project I simply read through the datasheet and
reference, did a few things in Microchip's SIM and off I went! :)

TTYL

2006\04\16@111038 by kravnus wolf

picon face
the previous pic master contains material of dsp
training. Excellent tutorial.

http://techtrain.microchip.com/masters2004/(kgmnvafutocq2355egt11231)/downloads/classlist.htm

Olin is right about the ref. manual download them and
print them. Can't live without it.

john

--- Picdude <spam_OUTpicdudeTakeThisOuTspamnarwani.net> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

secure.microchip.com/CorpSeminars/info/NAmer.aspx
> ...or would fit my needs?
>
> Any other options?  Quick and simple are key here,
> even if it costs a few more bucks.
>
> Cheers,
> -Neil.
>
>
> --

2006\04\16@111459 by kravnus wolf

picon face


--- Picdude <.....picdudeKILLspamspam@spam@narwani.net> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

secure.microchip.com/CorpSeminars/info/NAmer.aspx
> ...or would fit my needs?
>

The course from my understanding does not cover the
dsPIC training but intro to the products. NO training
involved. I am attending the training myself.*more for
the board which I want for dev.*

john

> Any other options?  Quick and simple are key here,
> even if it costs a few more bucks.
>
> Cheers,
> -Neil.
>
>
> --

2006\04\16@170108 by Picdude

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Responding to all the replies posted...

This sounds good.  I'll avoid the "course" since I don't need another sales pitch, but nitty-gritty development & coding knowledge.  I'll check out the ref manuals and presentations mentioned.  Only other thing I'd like to find is a tutorial on DSP's in general.  I know TI had one of these online somewhere, so I'll search for that later.

What was good to hear is that the dsPICs are really just architected as regular PICs with additional DSP features, so I can port some existing code from another processor and slowly implemented some DSP functionality.  

I'll also order some samples from Microchip.

Thanks all,
-Neil.

2006\04\16@180712 by olin piclist

face picon face
Picdude wrote:
> What was good to hear is that the dsPICs are really just architected
> as regular PICs with additional DSP features, so I can port some
> existing code from another processor and slowly implemented some DSP
> functionality.

Hmm.  I don't remember anyone saying it like that, and I do not agree.
dsPICs do retain some of the flavor of the 8 bit PICs, but they are a whole
new architecture and instruction set.  You aren't going to "port" existing
assembly code.  I would consider them totally different processors that are
similar with 8 bit PICs in name, manufacturer, and the fact that they both
use a harvard architecture.  The instruction set, tools, and source syntax
are completely different.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\04\16@183153 by John Nall

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Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Hmm.  I don't remember anyone saying it like that, and I do not agree.
> dsPICs do retain some of the flavor of the 8 bit PICs, but they are a whole
> new architecture and instruction set.  You aren't going to "port" existing
> assembly code.  I would consider them totally different processors that are
> similar with 8 bit PICs in name, manufacturer, and the fact that they both
> use a harvard architecture.  The instruction set, tools, and source syntax
> are completely different.
>  
.
Having spent a great deal of time lately going back and forth between
"regular" PIC's and the dsPIC's, I tend to partially agree with Olin.  
"Partially" because I think  that you can do some porting, but the
result, while it might work, is not going to be pretty.  And most
certainly not efficient.  I wrote a translator (which I sent to James,
and I guess it went into some sort of Black Hole) to translate 18F452
code to 30F code.   It worked, and I am kind of proud of the translator
(in the same way that I suppose you might be proud of an autistic child)
but it was clear to me, after I finished, that someone wanting to port
18F452 code really should rewrite it to take full advantage of the 30F
architecture and set of commands.
.
John

2006\04\16@190312 by davedilatush

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Picdude wrote...

>What was good to hear is that the dsPICs are really
>just architected as regular PICs with additional DSP features...

The architecture is really quite different.  The on-chip
peripherals will all be familiar, I expect, but the processor
itself is radically different.

Dave D.

2006\04\16@203229 by Picdude

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> -------- Original Message --------
> From: olin_piclistspamKILLspamembedinc.com (Olin Lathrop)
>
> Hmm.  I don't remember anyone saying it like that, and I do not agree.
> dsPICs do retain some of the flavor of the 8 bit PICs, but they are a whole
> new architecture and instruction set.  You aren't going to "port" existing
> assembly code.  I would consider them totally different processors that are
> similar with 8 bit PICs in name, manufacturer, and the fact that they both
> use a harvard architecture.  The instruction set, tools, and source syntax
> are completely different.


Hmmm... think I read too much into it from the statement that said they were "bigger PICs".  I've been downloading some of the docs and took a gander at a datasheet and yes, they appear to be more different from regular 16F & 18F pics that I read into that statement.  I'll still treat it as getting a basic non-DSP app running on a dsPIC first, then add on some DSP functionality.

Cheers,
-Neil.

2006\04\16@212321 by davedilatush

picon face
Picdude wrote...

>...I'll still treat it as getting a basic non-DSP app running
>on a dsPIC first, then add on some DSP functionality.

One other point.

Don't know if it's of any interest, but Microchip offers a free
math library for the dsPIC30F.  The math functions are callable
from assembly language and handle both single- and
double-precision IEEE-754 floating point math.  

For a dsPIC30F running at top speed, a single-precision floating
point multiply, subtract or add takes about 3 microseconds; a
divide takes about 11 microseconds.

The library contains the basic functions plus trig and
hyperbolic, logs and exponentials, power functions, type
conversions, etc.

Might be useful in some applications.

Go to the Microchip website, click on dsPIC Digital Signal
Controllers, then on "dsPIC Development Boards, Tools and
Libraries."  The math libs are linked somewhere on that page.

Dave D.

2006\04\16@214130 by kravnus wolf

picon face
This is one part I would like to see improvement for
fp operations.

john

--- Dave Dilatush <.....davedilatushKILLspamspam.....comcast.net> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

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