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PICList Thread
'[PIC] Comparing PIClist and Microchip Forum on PIC'
2005\12\17@214056 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
I know this topic will be a bit controversial but this is what I felt
over the past
half years after I join the Microchip Forum.

It seems to me that Microchip Forum is getting better and better and many
deep discussions are being carried out there. PIClist is still
relevant to me but I
guess I will more and more go to Microchip Forum to learn PIC related stuff.

For example, I wish we would have such interesting topics here:
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.asp?m=131603

The [EE] tag and [OT] tag are still excellent. ;-)

Regards,
Xiaofan

2005\12\18@022217 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
>
> For example, I wish we would have such interesting topics here:
> http://forum.microchip.com/tm.asp?m=131603

If you see an interesting question or comment on the microchip.com forum,
cross post it here so we can have a hack at it.

It would be possible to add the mchip forums to the archive on piclist.com
but I'm not sure that would be worth the effort. Or would it?

It would also be possible to setup an in only (no mail) account at piclist @
mit.edu and then subscribe to the microchip forum from that account. That
would have the effect of all microchip forum posts automatically being cross
posted to the piclist. I don't think that is a good idea, but it could be
done. Moderation would be impossible. Like I say, I don't think it would be
a good idea, but: Let me know what you think.

> The [EE] tag and [OT] tag are still excellent. ;-)
>

I've always seen the piclist as more than just a PIClist. I've tried to
attract people from other chipsets <GRIN> but that hasn't been very
successful.

The other thing to keep in mind is that we have limited bandwidth here. We
are not paid for my microchip or any other sponsor with deep pockets.
Massively increasing the number of posts on this list could swamp MIT and
get us kicked off. Heck, you want more than the 100 or more posts per day we
already have?

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
spam_OUTjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspampiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2005\12\18@024439 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 12/18/05, James Newton, Host <.....jamesnewtonKILLspamspam@spam@piclist.com> wrote:
> >
> > For example, I wish we would have such interesting topics here:
> > http://forum.microchip.com/tm.asp?m=131603
>
> If you see an interesting question or comment on the microchip.com forum,
> cross post it here so we can have a hack at it.

I will but I am not so sure if people like to see cross-posts or not. I got
the impression quite some people do not like this.

> It would also be possible to setup an in only (no mail) account at piclist @
> mit.edu and then subscribe to the microchip forum from that account. That
> would have the effect of all microchip forum posts automatically being cross
> posted to the piclist. I don't think that is a good idea, but it could be
> done. Moderation would be impossible. Like I say, I don't think it would be
> a good idea, but: Let me know what you think.

I agree with you here. It is not a good idea.

> > The [EE] tag and [OT] tag are still excellent. ;-)
> >
>
> I've always seen the piclist as more than just a PIClist. I've tried to
> attract people from other chipsets <GRIN> but that hasn't been very
> successful.

I think [OT] is very unique but I am not so sure if it is really good for
PIClist or not. Anyway I am okay with any topics in [OT] now, including
[WOT]. [EE] is a must have for PIClist. I think [AVR] can be removed
because there are dedicated lists to AVR.

It is not so easy to attract people from other MCU families since
most of them already have good lists. Here Gmane is doing a good
job of archiving some of them (the LPC2100 list, msp430 list, ...).

> The other thing to keep in mind is that we have limited bandwidth here. We
> are not paid for my microchip or any other sponsor with deep pockets.
> Massively increasing the number of posts on this list could swamp MIT and
> get us kicked off. Heck, you want more than the 100 or more posts per day we
> already have?
>

The number of the posts does not matter but the quality. But I know that
a lot of the posts in Microchip Forum are of low quality as well.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2005\12\18@110528 by olin piclist

face picon face
James Newton, Host wrote:
> If you see an interesting question or comment on the microchip.com
> forum, cross post it here so we can have a hack at it.

Or not.  Anyone can subscribe to the Microchip forums.  If someone wants to
see those posts they can, and you can therefore presume they do.  There are
also a bunch of people subscribed to the PIClist and various Microchip
forums, and I doubt they'd want to see a post twice.  I know I don't.

> It would be possible to add the mchip forums to the archive on
> piclist.com but I'm not sure that would be worth the effort.

That would be a pointless waste of effort as Microchip already does that.
Again, it's available to everyone already.

> It would also be possible to setup an in only (no mail) account at
> piclist @ mit.edu and then subscribe to the microchip forum from that
> account. That would have the effect of all microchip forum posts
> automatically being cross posted to the piclist.

Nooooooo!  First, there are way more Microchip posts than PIClist posts
accross many forums and catagories.  I only subscribe to a small subset and
get about as many Microchip messages as PIClist messages.  If you do that
I'll be out of here in an instant.  Then again, maybe you think of that as a
Good Thing.

Another point is that the email notification messages of Microchip forum
posts are a mess.  The forum allows various types of formatting and has a
specific way to identify replied-to text.  Unfortunately the email gateway
sucks, and most of this is lost.  You can't even reply via the email
gateway.  What I do is look at the garbled message briefly.  If it's on a
thread I remember and am interested in or the garbled mess gets my
attention, I click on the link and go to that message straight in the forum.
I probably miss some things just because they are too much of a mess.  Oh
well.

Another problem is that the Microchip forum has a larger fraction of totally
clueless bozos and those to whom english is the 27th language, but post
anyway.  I filter out those topics that tend to be overrun by these kinds of
people, but I don't see how that would be possible via the PIClist.

Again, if people want to see Microchip forum posts, all they have to do is
subscribe and they get to chose what combinations of the 50 or so topics to
get notified about.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2005\12\18@110635 by olin piclist

face picon face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> I will but I am not so sure if people like to see cross-posts or not.
> I got the impression quite some people do not like this.

Me too, and I'm one of them.

******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2005\12\18@184509 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

>> If you see an interesting question or comment on the microchip.com
>> forum, cross post it here so we can have a hack at it.
>
> Or not.  Anyone can subscribe to the Microchip forums.  If someone wants
> to see those posts they can, and you can therefore presume they do.
> There are also a bunch of people subscribed to the PIClist and various
> Microchip forums, and I doubt they'd want to see a post twice.  I know I
> don't.

Possibly a reasonable form of "cross posting" would be if there is a topic
on the forum that somebody here finds interesting but not sufficiently
discussed there, she can post a message here with a link to that forum
discussion and stating what's not quite discussed there.

But I guess this happens anyway, more or less.


> [...] and those to whom english is the 27th language, but post anyway.  

I don't know how many languages you write, or what your 27th language is,
but I have a high respect for anybody who can make herself more or less
understood in 27 languages. Maybe you should take it with just a bit of
gratefulness that somebody is trying to post in your language rather than
in hers. We simply have to face it: the world is getting more entangled,
and more and more will people talk to each other who don't really speak
each other's languages well. Goodwill is essential for this to work...

Gerhard

2005\12\18@194609 by Chen Xiao Fan

face
flavicon
face
> From: Olin
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 12:05 AM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [PIC] Comparing PIClist and Microchip
> Forum on PIC topics

> If you do that I'll be out of here in an instant. Then
> again, maybe you  think of that as a Good Thing.

You will be missed by a lot of people here if you do that,
including me.

> Another point is that the email notification messages of
> Microchip forum posts are a mess.

A complete mess. I subscribed to some sections but now
I do not receive any email notifications. Now I only use
the web interface and check several a few sections (USB,
programmers, ICD2, MPLAB, etc and some other interesting
threads).

Another annoying features of Microchip Forum is that it
is losing most of the attachment. So in a sense, it
is good to have some archives of some good threads
of Microchip Forum but this selective archiving
may be difficult.

> Another problem is that the Microchip forum has a larger
> fraction of totally clueless bozos and those to whom
> English  is the 27th  language, but post anyway.  I filter
> out those topics  that tend to be overrun by  these kinds
> of people, but I don't see  how that would be possible via
> the PIClist.

There are very helpful people like j_doin and others
who will take care of those people. For some of the Chinese
whose English is really very lousy I recommend them to some
Chinese forums. But there are people who are willing to
translate Chinese to English for them. It is amazing that
j_doin and some others are so far reaching in the Microchip
Forum. It would be good to have them here. I know
some of them are here but are quiet in general
(Bob Barr and WH Tan, for example).

The main assets of Microchip Forum are some of the very
knowledgeable and very helpful person there. Olin is
one of them but there are many more. PIClist has
many EE experts and OT experts and that is good. I
am sure PIClist has many PIC experts here but somehow
the scope of PIC related discussions are quite limited
in general (very few PIC18/dsPIC topics, very few
advanced topics like CAN/USB/Zigbee/TCPIC/...).

All in all, this is just my observations and I do not
think I can change this. And Microchip Forum is there
as well. PIClist will still be a great list as well.

Regards,
Xiaofan


2005\12\18@202222 by olin piclist

face picon face
Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
> I don't know how many languages you write, or what your 27th language
> is, but I have a high respect for anybody who can make herself more or
> less understood in 27 languages.

The problem is too often it's less, but they post unintelligeable babble
anyway.

> Maybe you should take it with just a
> bit of gratefulness that somebody is trying to post in your language
> rather than in hers.

Why?  If someone asks me for free advice, it's their obligation to make
understanding their question above my hassle threshold.  If I chose to not
receive messages from forums that tend to have a high fraction of hard to
understand posts, that's completely my business and within my right.  I
don't have to be "grateful" to anyone for trying to ask me a question.

> We simply have to face it: the world is getting
> more entangled, and more and more will people talk to each other who
> don't really speak each other's languages well. Goodwill is essential
> for this to work...

Maybe, but my goodwill is limited when doing things for free.  I'm not
blaming people for not being able to write english well, but on the other
hand it's my time and I don't have to read badly written posts if I don't
feel like it.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2005\12\18@221237 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>> For example, I wish we would have such interesting topics here:
>> http://forum.microchip.com/tm.asp?m=131603

We do have - just not that particular one at the moment. (On site
compilation of a limited set of arithmetic instruction based code.

There's absolutely see no reason why you couldn't start such a topic
on this list with a cross reference to the original thread.

FWIW an obvious answer to the man's question is to make a simple
interpreter to handle the well defined and small set of operations
required. This is liable to be as fast as a compiled solution and more
code compact. It's approximately equivalent to the formula translators
already available for the PIC.




       RM

2005\12\18@234124 by Mark Rages

face picon face
On 12/18/05, Russell McMahon <apptechspamKILLspamparadise.net.nz> wrote:
> >> For example, I wish we would have such interesting topics here:
> >> http://forum.microchip.com/tm.asp?m=131603
>
> We do have - just not that particular one at the moment. (On site
> compilation of a limited set of arithmetic instruction based code.
>
> There's absolutely see no reason why you couldn't start such a topic
> on this list with a cross reference to the original thread.
>
> FWIW an obvious answer to the man's question is to make a simple
> interpreter to handle the well defined and small set of operations
> required. This is liable to be as fast as a compiled solution and more
> code compact. It's approximately equivalent to the formula translators
> already available for the PIC.
>

The thread also discusses licensing issues with distributing MPASM and
nobody mentioned gpasm, which is freely licensed and adequate to the
task.  Perhaps better for the task, since source code means it could
be tightly integrated with the programming application.

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one.
 - fortune cookie

2005\12\18@234513 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> If you do that I'll be out of here in an instant.  

OOOooohhh!!!

<grin>

Just kidding.

---
James.



2005\12\19@015851 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>> If you do that I'll be out of here in an instant.  

> OOOooohhh!!!

> <grin>

> Just kidding.

It would only need to be  for a few days :-).
(And, as a bonus, I may leave too :-) ).



       RM

2005\12\19@084505 by Dave Lag

picon face
Russell McMahon wrote:
>>>If you do that I'll be out of here in an instant.  
>
>>OOOooohhh!!!
>
>><grin>
>
>>Just kidding.
>
> It would only need to be  for a few days :-).
> (And, as a bonus, I may leave too :-) ).
>
>         RM

As long as you two stay together, its OK
(the buddy system)

2005\12\19@102409 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
Chen Xiao Fan wrote :

> PIClist has many .... OT experts and that is good...

Now, what is an "OT expert" ? :-)

Jan-Erik.



2005\12\19@155840 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>> PIClist has many .... OT experts and that is good...
>
> Now, what is an "OT expert" ? :-)

Me :-)

       RM


2005\12\20@030419 by Chen Xiao Fan

face
flavicon
face

> From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:47 AM
> >> PIClist has many .... OT experts and that is good...
> >
> > Now, what is an "OT expert" ? :-)
>
> Me :-)
>
>         RM

You are not only an [OT] expert but the [OT] King. ;-)
Your contribution to [EE] is also very significant
but perhaps is overshadowed by your [OT] contribution.

Actually a lot of the IT related issues go to [OT]
(I like them to be [EE] but people may not like
them in [EE]) and there are really quite some IT
experts here.

Regards,
Xiaofan

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