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'[PIC] Book recommendations (PIC18F, 24H, 30F)'
2007\11\04@044212 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 11/3/07, Vitaliy <spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTspammaksimov.org> wrote:
> Seeking recommendations on PIC books, focusing on the 18Fs and
> the 16-bit PICs to add to our company library.

I think the Hard copies of Microchip's reference manuals are the best
books.

http://www.microchip.com/16bit
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2556

Xiaofan

2007\11\04@092129 by John Chung

picon face
The odd thing about PIC books were........ I did
not know how they came to the conclusion! A lot
of missing parts. I would agree on Xiao Fan advice.
follow the reference manual. It is a good place
to start if you have experience in assembly. If you
want to continue programming Basic or etc then I
believe that a book is in order...... Just invest
one 1 or 2 books than you would be able to pick
up other MCU faster without the book :)

John


--- Xiaofan Chen <.....xiaofancKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2556
>
> Xiaofan
> --

2007\11\06@212004 by Vitaliy

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face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
>> Seeking recommendations on PIC books, focusing on the 18Fs and
>> the 16-bit PICs to add to our company library.
>
> I think the Hard copies of Microchip's reference manuals are the best
> books.
>
> http://www.microchip.com/16bit
> http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2556

Already got those, too. :)

2007\11\06@215916 by Dr Skip

picon face
Do they give those at the $49 day long seminar/classes?


> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
>>> Seeking recommendations on PIC books, focusing on the 18Fs and
>>> the 16-bit PICs to add to our company library.
>> I think the Hard copies of Microchip's reference manuals are the best
>> books.

2007\11\06@224524 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 11/7/07, Dr Skip <.....drskipKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:

> > Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> >>> Seeking recommendations on PIC books, focusing on the 18Fs and
> >>> the 16-bit PICs to add to our company library.
> >> I think the Hard copies of Microchip's reference manuals are the best
> >> books.
> Do they give those at the $49 day long seminar/classes?
>
I do not know about the US$49 seminar. I attended the seminar at a higher
price (with my own money since it was during the break of switching job
last year) but that include the Explorer 16 board. I remember they have
limited copies of those manuals and I did not remember I got one.

Now they have free training by the RTC.
https://secure.microchip.com/RTC/index.aspx
http://www.excelpoint.com/mhcc/aseanworkshop.html

Xiaofan

2007\11\06@235002 by John Chung

picon face

--- Xiaofan Chen <EraseMExiaofancspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

 Same here. I have to FETCH one..... I did not see
any seminar this year.... Did I miss it?

John

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2007\11\07@011317 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 11/7/07, John Chung <@spam@kravnusKILLspamspamyahoo.com> wrote:
> > Now they have free training by the RTC.
> > https://secure.microchip.com/RTC/index.aspx
> > www.excelpoint.com/mhcc/aseanworkshop.html
>  Same here. I have to FETCH one..... I did not see
> any seminar this year.... Did I miss it?
>

I do not know. I think I will not use Microchip MCUs at work
in the foreseeable future (here is the world of 8051,
ARM7/9/Xscale for the division I am working and 68k/Coldfire
for the other division). Therefore I do not think my manager
will support me to go to a Microchip seminar.

I only use one Microchip EEProms in the new design since
Atmel chose to obsolete the old 5V parts.

Xiaofan

2007\11\07@015426 by Vitaliy

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face
Dr Skip wrote:
> Do they give those at the $49 day long seminar/classes?

I thought Xiaofan meant actual printouts of the PDFs. I don't think we ever
got the manuals as hard copies from Microchip (should have asked the FAE
when he stopped by today).

2007\11\07@021644 by John Chung

picon face

--- Xiaofan Chen <KILLspamxiaofancKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

:( We lost another *Xiao Fan* .. At least he is still
active personally :D For all E&E seminars I need to
fork out my own cash. Ouch.

John

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2007\11\07@032548 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 11/7/07, Vitaliy <spamBeGonespamspamBeGonespammaksimov.org> wrote:
> I thought Xiaofan meant actual printouts of the PDFs. I don't think we ever
> got the manuals as hard copies from Microchip (should have asked the FAE
> when he stopped by today).
>

Print copy is easier to use. It is interesting that Electronics Document
actually increase the waste of paper in the real world. It is so easy to
print the files. Then you throw them away. Then you print again.

Last time it was easier to get the hard copies. I got the Mid Range
Reference Manual and datasheets for 16C72A, 16F872 and 12F629
for the 3 projects I worked in the previous job. I tried to keep some
of the hard copy datasheets when the R&D department moved to
a new floor. A lot of them were throw away since they were dated
back to 1990. Some old oscilloscopes/multimeters/emulators/computers
were also thrown away (not worth the money to keep them or get
them calibrated or maintained). Originally I intended to get some for my
personal use but it was said not so good because of some
strange policies. So I believe those things end up in the waste
processing factories (not too bad, at least they got recycled).

In the new job, it is totally different, we did not have anything
initially. All I got in the first month was a laptop computer.
Now most of the datasheets we got are the links to internet
and some CDs, seldom we have hard copies.

Xiaofan

2007\11\07@054535 by John Chung

picon face


--- Xiaofan Chen <TakeThisOuTxiaofancEraseMEspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

 old equipment and don salvage it? Sigh...... What a
waste.

John


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2007\11\07@081847 by Dave Lag

picon face
John Chung wrote:
{Quote hidden}

In my experience,
It is always easier for the purchasing dept/capital goods manager to
send an item to a scrap dealer rather that give it to an employee.

Sadly they need to get it off the books in a verifiable way and not
give the appearance of providing some special treatment to a specific
employee or scamming for kickbacks etc.

It take a bold manager to set up a plan to valuate and pass on/sell
disposition items to the employees.

Dave

2007\11\07@102851 by John Chung

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--- Dave Lag <RemoveMEdavescomputerEraseMEspamEraseMErogers.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

 With large organization I would agree...... Still a
waste! I think it would not be wise for the manager to
"help" when it comes to such things! I would rather
auction in masses :) Send out a mail to the local
techy and get them to bid for the item. :D

John


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2007\11\09@031038 by Vitaliy

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face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> Print copy is easier to use. It is interesting that Electronics Document
> actually increase the waste of paper in the real world. It is so easy to
> print the files. Then you throw them away. Then you print again.

This hasn't been our experience. We keep the datasheets in 3-ring binders of
various sizes, depending on the number of pages. We have binders that are
over five years old, and still in use.

When we work on a project, sometimes we would just print out the useful
parts of relevant datasheets, and put the pages in the project's folder. No
reason to print out the entire datasheet, if all we really care about are
the dimensions of the footprint, or the pinout.

[snip]
> In the new job, it is totally different, we did not have anything
> initially. All I got in the first month was a laptop computer.
> Now most of the datasheets we got are the links to internet
> and some CDs, seldom we have hard copies.

Printed documentation has intrinsic value. There are things you can do with
it that aren't possible or practical with electronic documents (the opposite
is true also).

But what is it with companies and laptops? Can't they grasp the fact that
screen real estate and a comfortable keyboard matter? If a laptop is really
necessary, give the guy a real PC *and* a laptop. Or at least a decent
docking station.

2007\11\09@042526 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 11/9/07, Vitaliy <EraseMEspamspamspamspamBeGonemaksimov.org> wrote:
> > In the new job, it is totally different, we did not have anything
> > initially. All I got in the first month was a laptop computer.
> > Now most of the datasheets we got are the links to internet
> > and some CDs, seldom we have hard copies.
>
> But what is it with companies and laptops? Can't they grasp the fact that
> screen real estate and a comfortable keyboard matter? If a laptop is really
> necessary, give the guy a real PC *and* a laptop. Or at least a decent
> docking station.
>

We all have a docking station (lousy Dell, one already gone) and a
19" LCD with the Dell Latitude D610 (now they start to use D620)
Laptop. The reason why we need a laptop at that time was we needed
to go to US for training. You can not bring a desktop for that.

Now in the lab, we have Dell Desktops. We also have spare laptops to
run testing like CE. Computers are cheap compared to better
oscilloscopes and precision sources (we need to have caliberation
grade precision voltage/current source and meter) and other equipment
or software packages.

This is a bit different to our US colleagues used to have (a Desktop
in the office and a laptop for lab testing and travel and a SUN Ray
terminal for access to Unix servers). Now they started to use laptop
in the office and put the old Desktop to the lab. SUN Ray is history now.
Unix servers and Mainframes are still there but we use PC (VNC
andJava based client) to access  them. Now SAP (aka Slow And
Problematic initially) is being implemented and I am not so sure
if the Mainframes will be used for how long. I do not know where
SAP is running on, maybe on x86 servers. After the initial hiccup,
SAP seems to be not too bad.

In the previous job, they upgraded to web service based ERP system
from IBM terminal based versions (Intentia Movex running on IBM
AS400 server, just new version) and everything start to slow
down by 50%.

It is strange now laptops are actually quite cheap and has quite
good performance, comparable to desktops. Even our PCB designer
is happy with Dell Latitude 820's performance, he just needs bigger
dual LCD monitors.

For Pro-E, the mechanical engineers prefer to use Dell
Precision Workstation since it is faster than Dell 820.
But Dell 820 is actually usable.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2007\11\12@103822 by alan smith

picon face
personal experiance.....they do it for a tax writeoff....if they allow it to be salvaged, then they can't leagally write it off.
 
 Sorta sucks....

John Chung <RemoveMEkravnusKILLspamspamyahoo.com> wrote:
 
--- Dave Lag wrote:

{Quote hidden}

With large organization I would agree...... Still a
waste! I think it would not be wise for the manager to
"help" when it comes to such things! I would rather
auction in masses :) Send out a mail to the local
techy and get them to bid for the item. :D

John


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2007\11\12@104259 by alan smith

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>From a flyer....
 
 for information on workshops contact david.stokesSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmicrochip.com

> --
Same here. I have to FETCH one..... I did not see
any seminar this year.... Did I miss it?

John





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2007\11\12@121652 by Dr Skip

picon face
A misconception or laziness on the part of accounting...

If it's a small business, there's a chance it's already taken as expense in the
lump sum one is allowed up to a certain amount (I forget the figure now - many
thousands). Otherwise, if it's old (10 yrs or more) it is probably all
depreciated away (tax deductions taken), and if it's a really lazy acct dept,
then they may not even argue it's depreciation and take the IRS tables which
may claim it has up to a 20 yr life. In that case, less than half of its value
is on the books. WHOEVER they sell it to, they claim the difference for taxes,
as long as the person buying isn't the one in mgmt setting the price and
playing "Let's Make A Deal" with himself....

Now, if it's all depreciated, they have to claim income on any sale proceeds.
There is motivation to give it away. You have to deal with 'fairness' then.

If it has value still on the books, They can sell it for that (but that's an
artificial number and not a real value), they can sell it for that times their
tax rate (they break even bottom line if that's the concern), or if they sell
it for less, the difference is the writeoff by definition. Any sale brings in
more than the writeoff alone, since the income offsets the percentage tax rate.
If it's on the books for $100 and they have a 40% tax rate, then the writeoff
is worth $40 to the bottom line. If they sell it for $100, it's moves things
around the bottom line and brings in $100 non-taxable. If they sell for less
than $100, they benefit between $40 and $100. As you see, writeoff is the
lowest value back.

The only IRS complaint might be that the 3 yr old HP spectrum analyzer isn't
really worth $1 and would consider the difference between real value and what
you paid to be 'income', since you also work for them. The company still writes
it off. However, this is a trivial detail, and unless you're really moving a
lot of goods and it's flagrant, there's bigger fish they want. Some
justification is all that may be needed to set it's value, since it could have
been dropped, etc.

To be totally covered, they should have listed all the equipment to be
discarded, then if they are going to sell, get recycling quotes. They can use
that for fair market value setting, and sell to employees, perhaps in a lottery
or fist-come basis. If they just take it to the dumpster, then they can also
just put it in a covered area, announce that it's at the 'virtual' dumpster,
look the other way, and discard what isn't taken at week's end.

It's also possible to internally recycle it. For instance, if it's depreciated
already, it's off the books already, so they can pile it up and let other
departments grab at it that might not have the budget for a brand new whatever,
but having a 10yr old whatsit-scope is better than having none. The benefits
are increased ability in other departments, less cost, etc, but it's a
management/leadership thing, not an accounting one.

As you can see, it can provide liquidity by selling and it doesn't affect tax
treatment. Simply throwing it away and writing it off is the least beneficial
financially for them. It's usually an accting dept that's lazy, doesn't
understand the business, or it's too small of a deal for them to take up the
cause. I suggest you present how it benefits the company as well, and how to do
it, and if presented at a high enough level, it'll change. The only 'legal'
issue is that you aren't the one that buys, sells, and sets the price. The rest
is just numbers.

There is just one other possibility - the guy hauling it all away today MAY
have a relationship with the boss already, and THAT'S why it's done the way
it's done... ;) It happens...


alan smith wrote:
> personal experiance.....they do it for a tax writeoff....if they allow it to be salvaged, then they can't leagally write it off.
>    
>   Sorta sucks....

2007\11\12@220439 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
alan smith wrote:
>  for information on workshops contact spamBeGonedavid.stokesSTOPspamspamEraseMEmicrochip.com

Where can one find a list of seminars/workshops that Microchip offers? All I
remember seeing on their site, are webinars.

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