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'[PIC] Best low Component Count Serial Programmer f'
2007\07\22@143640 by Tobias Gogolin

picon face
I have been looking at all PIC programmer circuits I could lay my eyes on (I
tried but I couldn't send the collection of circuits)

You might understand, for a first timer this is all too unfamiliar
terrain...
I need only the 5 in circuit programing wires to be created with those
transistors and diodes that I have seen in essentially the JDM, the PIPO
programmers
and RCD which does it without any transistors

Where I found about 5 differently drawn but identical (as far as I can tell
from putting them side by side for a few minutes) JDM versions,
the PIPO (one transistor) and the RCD which has a Status LED which I like...

Frankly I only partially understand how these circuits work, some circuits
seem to be intentionally obfuscated...

What should I know about building one to program the 18LF4320 involved in my
solar tracker design?
I would like it especially if there was a circuit that could be easily
converted to also do serial communication with the chip later!
Thanks for any pointers!
--
Tobias Gogolin
cel. (646) 124 32 82
skype: moontogo
messenger: spam_OUTusertogoTakeThisOuTspamhotmail.com

You develop an open source motor controller at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoBox


--
Tobias Gogolin
cel. (646) 124 32 82
skype: moontogo
messenger: .....usertogoKILLspamspam@spam@hotmail.com

You develop an open source motor controller at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoBox

2007\07\22@170036 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 7/22/07, Tobias Gogolin <usertogospamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
>
> Where I found about 5 differently drawn but identical (as far as I can tell
> from putting them side by side for a few minutes) JDM versions,
> the PIPO (one transistor) and the RCD which has a Status LED which I like...
>
> What should I know about building one to program the 18LF4320 involved in my
> solar tracker design?
> I would like it especially if there was a circuit that could be easily
> converted to also do serial communication with the chip later!
> Thanks for any pointers!

JDMs may have its usage last time. Not now. They are junk now.

You can buy PICkit 2 for US$35 and as of version 2.4, it supports
UART emulation. It supports almost all Flash PIC12F/16F/18F
and PIC24/dsPICs.

Xiaofan

2007\07\22@170815 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> You might understand, for a first
> What should I know about building one to program the 18LF4320
> involved in my solar tracker design?

Those very simple circuits *can* work. Which implies that (depending
mainly on your serial port, but if Murphy gets its way also on the phase
of the moon) they might also not work. According to piclist lore, waving
a dead fish might help. (sorry, inside joke)

The next step up in the foodchain is a progger that uses the serial port
as communication port, as it is meant to be. To quote Olin, Wisp628 is
the bare minimum circuit that does that. Again stepping up in the
foodchain there are proggers that derive Vpp (the programming enable
voltage) in a more robust way, pickit2 is a nice example. There are a
lot of higher steps, but I am not sure you are interested.

>  I would like it
> especially if there was a circuit that could be easily
> converted to also do serial communication with the chip
> later!

Wisp628 does that, IIRC pickit2 in its latest incarnation also does this
(but it lacks the extra two wires of a Wisp628, so you can't use the
PICs UART).

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\07\23@072307 by olin piclist

face picon face
Tobias Gogolin wrote:
> Frankly I only partially understand how these circuits work, some
> circuits seem to be intentionally obfuscated...
>
> What should I know about building one to program the 18LF4320 involved
> in my solar tracker design?

You first need to decide what your primary goal is.  Are you trying to get
your tracker done and the programmer is a tool, or is there some inherent
reason you want to build it yourself?  Are you just trying to save money
building it yourself?  How much do you value your time not directly applied
to your goal of building a tracker?  How much hassle is it worth to save a
few $$?

Yes, you can build a "sortof works" PIC programmer for very little parts
cost, but the expense only starts there.  Then you have to figure out why
its not working with your chip, which is especially tough for someone new to
PICs and who only "partially understands" the circuit to begin with.  Check
the archives and you will see they are full of people spending weeks
sometimes trying to get their "cheap" home-brew programmers to work.

If you'd like a programmer that connects via the PC serial port, take a look
at Wouter's Wisp628.  For USB, the Microchip PicKit2 cuts a few corners but
does work most of the time.  My USBProg
(http://www.embedinc.com/products/eusb2) doesn't cut the corners and is
guaranteed to work over the full range of legal USB port specs, and the
18F4320 is supported.

> I would like it especially if there was a circuit that could be easily
> converted to also do serial communication with the chip later!

I don't see why that should be the same circuit since it performs a
different function.  My RSLink (http://www.embedinc.com/products/ser) is a
small and cheap adapter between the PIC UART signals and a PC COM port.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2007\07\23@195311 by Tobias Gogolin

picon face
well so far I don't like the answers I got
I see no reasons why a well designed simple programmer shouldn't work
but of course I understand where the wind is blowing from, you guys want to
sell!
Thanks but I have neither time nor money to order from you, sorry!

Besides I am not working only for myself, i am defining the path for a
future open source community that is going to adopt the hardware I evaluate!
People from all around the world!
My philosophy is consume only the bare necessities, what if somebody wants
to build the tracker and that is going to be the only PIC he will ever
program and update?
We'll have to do better than that!
The objective is renewable energy, not outfitting a lab...


On 7/23/07, Olin Lathrop <.....olin_piclistKILLspamspam.....embedinc.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\07\23@204409 by Nate Duehr

face
flavicon
face
Tobias Gogolin wrote:
> well so far I don't like the answers I got
> I see no reasons why a well designed simple programmer shouldn't work
> but of course I understand where the wind is blowing from, you guys want to
> sell!

No, they built WELL DESIGNED programmers.  The ones you're looking at...
aren't.

If you'd review the circuits and also the PIC datasheets for the
programming requirements, you'd already know that.

> Thanks but I have neither time nor money to order from you, sorry!

If you're that hard-up, you're going to find that electronics might be
disappointing unless you have a lot of dead hardware you can
"accumulate" parts from.

Your first order of a list of standard parts for building real circuits
(including shipping, or from a local dealer with mark-up) will run as
much or more as one of their programmers.

> Besides I am not working only for myself, i am defining the path for a
> future open source community that is going to adopt the hardware I evaluate!
> People from all around the world!

Nifty doo... personally we're just sitting around smoking rainbows and
farting lollipops, no one here has _EVER_ attempted anything to help
open-source or the world!  (That's sarcasm...)

Actually I'm planning to take over the world too.  Want to borrow my
"Fembots with a penchant for evil"?

Reference:  http://www.ubergeek.tv/switchlinux/

Okay now that you've had a laugh...

You seem to think that you need to evangelize open-source here, and have
made an assumption that people here aren't already involved in such
projects.  Perhaps you might want to hang around a while and find
that... well, here, let me rephrase your own words:

"Many people here (including Olin and Wouter) are not only working for
themselves, they've defined a path for PIC users to program their
respective PIC chips without pain and suffering, people from all around
the world!"

> My philosophy is consume only the bare necessities, what if somebody wants
> to build the tracker and that is going to be the only PIC he will ever
> program and update?

Gee, wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper for them (and more reliable) to
have someone pre-program the chips (if they're truly that popular) and
sell them at cost of chip, shipping, and time to program a batch?

> We'll have to do better than that!
> The objective is renewable energy, not outfitting a lab...

Bwahaha... a $80 programmer is "outfitting a lab"... wow, you're out of
touch with true costs of such projects, friend.

You also might hang around long enough to notice that others here have
already posted that they're working on or have already finished such
projects.

Your enthusiasm is great, but you really need to stop and look at what's
already been done.   If you're into "open-source" you understand the
value of knowledge reuse... and there's quite a bit of it here already.
  You may have already turned off multiple people with an interest in
your particular application though... barging in with a "I know best how
to build things with PIC's" attitude.  You only hurt yourself doing
that.  Be cautious.

Anyway...

Hopefully that'll save Wouter and Olin from having to say all of the
above... they don't deserve your scorn.  They're pros, yes... and
they've offered up VERY affordable programming solutions for everyone.

Those programmer designs you're looking at, suck.  I know.  I built one
and fought with it until it worked.  Then I bought a $40 programmer from
a reputable company (that's not as popular anymore as newer PIC devices
came out, but still works for the stuff I do), and found that it worked
directly out of the box, and EVERY time in the last five or six years
since I bought it.

I threw the improperly designed programmer circuit in the trash (after
pulling useful components off of it) and never looked back.

You can learn from other's mistakes or repeat them -- your call.

Either way, hope you're having fun with it.

Nate

2007\07\23@204842 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Actually, that is not what occurred.

Yes, they sell programmers. But they are no more, or less, than
Microchip's versions... that
they recommended as well.. What they are trying to remind you is that
your time has a value.
If you want to, you MIGHT be able to make them work. But because of
dramatic changes
in the past 2 years, only very simple PICs are able to be programmed
with simple programmers.

Your best bet is to buy a PICKIT; they are very cheap.

And, no, I'm not selling anything.

--Bob

Tobias Gogolin wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>> --

2007\07\23@213644 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 7/23/07, Tobias Gogolin <usertogospamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
> well so far I don't like the answers I got
> I see no reasons why a well designed simple programmer shouldn't work
> but of course I understand where the wind is blowing from, you guys want to
> sell!
> Thanks but I have neither time nor money to order from you, sorry!

I am not selling anything. I am just a satisfied user of Microchip PICkit 2.
Actually my main activity with Linux is to support the open source applications
for PICkit 2. Microchip actually released the source codes for both
the firmware and host application software.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2007\07\23@231506 by John Chung

picon face

--- Nate Duehr <@spam@nateKILLspamspamnatetech.com> wrote:


{Quote hidden}

 I would agree when the design that is based on it
kind of bad to start with. Still there is plenty of
wrong things that can go wrong like soldering and
wiring.... Anyway it is a lot more productive when you
are able to use a ready product. Most of the
programmers that I own are bought. I have built one
but fabricating the proper board for it is a pain.

John


     ____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

2007\07\24@001111 by Jinx

face picon face

> The objective is renewable energy, not outfitting a lab...

A PicKit2 is hardly outfitting a lab. If you're that concerned
about efficient use of energy, which is commendable, you might
consider the energy it will take to find, build and test something
that didn't come lickety-spit off a production line. You could
try the sack-cloth-'n'-ashes way. Develop software on an F84
using a very basic serial programmer (NOPPP ?) and then port
it to an 18LF4320, getting someone who has a programmer to
burn it. Why that chip in particular ? I'm sure it could be done
with a much older basic 40-pin like an 877. Or a couple of F84s

2007\07\24@014021 by David P Harris

picon face
Hi Tobias-

Perhaps a different processor? ...  AVRs can be programed with three
resistors.  http://revision3.com/systm/avr101 or
http://www.dontronics.com/dt006_programming.html#programmer for example.

David

Tobias Gogolin wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\07\24@015554 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> well so far I don't like the answers I got

If you wanted a particular answer, why don't you state so up front?

I don't like a lot of things in this world, but so far the world has
done very little with my opinions...

> I see no reasons why a well designed simple programmer
> shouldn't work

You did not ask for reasons, you asked for an advice, so that is what
you got!

> but of course I understand where the wind is
> blowing from, you guys want to sell!

Of course, that is why I recommend (among other things) a Mircochip
programmer, and Olin recommnends (among other things) one I make, and
(coincidence, coincidence!) the same Microchip programmer. We all
desperately want someone else to sell you something.

> Thanks but I have
> neither time nor money to order from you, sorry!

If you had only 'no  money' there would be some hope, but 'no time'
*and* 'no money'....

> Besides I am not working only for myself

All the more reason to go with something that is reliable.

> what if somebody wants to build the tracker and that is going
> to be the only PIC he will ever program and update?

How about: you buy a realianble programmer and a bunch of chips, and you
program them for all those somebodys?

> We'll
> have to do better than that! The objective is renewable
> energy, not outfitting a lab...

I get the impression that your word "we" includes everyone who spends
some time giving you an answer, but not yourself?

PS I am the good cop today. I hope James does not have to censor Olin's
answer too much...

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\07\24@024247 by Maarten Hofman

face picon face
San Mateo, 23 juli 2007.

I have tried a number of programmers. Serial port ones, parallel port ones.
They all did what I expected them to do (although I do realise that there
might be issues with certain serial ports, I had a lucky motherboard that
was still fully compliant). However, once I won the PicKit 2 and started
using it, I discovered that it is superior. With what I know now, even if I
wanted to program only one PIC (and for some reason didn't want to ask
someone on the list to do this for me, which is probably a much saner thing
to do) I would want to use the PicKit 2. I'm also under the impression that
a mass produced device like the PicKit 2 most likely uses fewer necessities
than any other solution, even if it is shipped all the way from Asia. The
amount of lead used in one of them is probably also less, something quite
relevant if you're planning to get rid of it after one time use. And, as was
shown on this list, you can even use it to do your project in, with no need
to actually program another device. Now that is reuse.

Greetings,
Maarten Hofman.

2007/7/23, Tobias Gogolin <KILLspamusertogoKILLspamspamgmail.com>:
{Quote hidden}

2007\07\24@025225 by Tobias Gogolin

picon face
>Perhaps a different processor? ...  AVRs can be programed with three
>resistors.  http://revision3.com/systm
>
> /avr101 or
> http://www.dontronics.com/dt006_programming.html#programmer for example.


Apparently PICs can be programmed with even only one...
http://home.earthlink.net/~davesullins/software/pic18f.html

Thanks to the guy from Holland who send me this link off list!
The 18LF4320 I have is listed !


On 7/23/07, David P Harris <RemoveMEdpharrisTakeThisOuTspamtelus.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\07\24@033036 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> Apparently PICs can be programmed with even only one...
> http://home.earthlink.net/~davesullins/software/pic18f.html

You did read "you will need a PC with a parallel port or serial port and
a Linux-based or DOS-based operating system"?

Not exactly something you can expect for a wide audience and a
reasonable span of time...

But that said, this is an LVP programmer with 3V power, which has its
limitations, but is likely to cause much less trouble than a serial port
powered programmer. But I recall someone mentioning that he had a
parallel port without pull-up resistors, so even the good old PP can
have its quircks...

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\07\24@035953 by Peter Bindels

picon face
On 24/07/07, Tobias Gogolin <spamBeGoneusertogospamBeGonespamgmail.com> wrote:
> well so far I don't like the answers I got
> I see no reasons why a well designed simple programmer shouldn't work
> but of course I understand where the wind is blowing from, you guys want to
> sell!
> Thanks but I have neither time nor money to order from you, sorry!

If you haven't got the time or money to order a $15/$25 programmer
from Wouter which works damn well, what are you going to buy PICs
from? And in what time are you going to fix them up to work and
determine sources of failure with your cheap programmer?

The last time I used a cheap device was when I was in school -
sufficient time and my hourly wage was near-nil. I make four times
what I could've made back then now and I'm only 24 - so I've ordered
Wouter's Wisp628, which has worked everytime I had the time to use it.

Regards,
Peter

2007\07\24@053943 by Tobias Gogolin

picon face
I'll update you on the programing success with my 1 resistor Par port
programmer soon...
Meanwhile I afforded myself a MAX232 with socket it was only ~17 pesos (the
equivalent of fresh Bread for 3 days)

So soon I will be able to load a bootloader and have a snazzy RS232
interface for PC based development and visualization!
If I was to wait for a week or two to get a programmer I might as well have
the chip programed by a friend who offered that to me right before he went
on vacations...

Any recommendations then where I should get my bootloader code from?

Thanks Guys!




On 7/24/07, Peter Bindels <TakeThisOuTdascandyEraseMEspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\07\24@082211 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Tobias Gogolin wrote:
> I'll update you on the programing success with my 1 resistor Par port
> programmer soon...
> Meanwhile I afforded myself a MAX232 with socket it was only ~17 pesos (the
> equivalent of fresh Bread for 3 days)
>
> So soon I will be able to load a bootloader and have a snazzy RS232
> interface for PC based development and visualization!
> If I was to wait for a week or two to get a programmer I might as well have
> the chip programed by a friend who offered that to me right before he went
> on vacations...
>
> Any recommendations then where I should get my bootloader code from?
>
> Thanks Guys!
>
>  
Almost everybody here has written GOOD bootloader code. Microchip has
some bloated versions,
but several people have written very tiny bootloaders and they are right
here on the PIClist.
So hang around!

And don't think we don't love ya. We've all shot ourselves in the foot
once or twice. Welcome!

--Bob

2007\07\24@111944 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Mon, 2007-07-23 at 23:52 -0700, Tobias Gogolin wrote:
> >Perhaps a different processor? ...  AVRs can be programed with three
> >resistors.  http://revision3.com/systm
> >
> > /avr101 or
> > http://www.dontronics.com/dt006_programming.html#programmer for example.
>
>
> Apparently PICs can be programmed with even only one...
> home.earthlink.net/~davesullins/software/pic18f.html
>
> Thanks to the guy from Holland who send me this link off list!
> The 18LF4320 I have is listed !

Seriously, how much is your time and frustration worth?

I've been in your shoes, trying to get going with the absolute bare
minimum of tools. I built one of these very simple programmers. It
worked, sometimes. In the end, the number of days I wasted tracking down
problems that were the result of using a homemade programmer when
instead I could have been debugging my apps still bugs me.

At the time the cheapest "real" programmers were around $200, so I'd
still understand someone trying to avoid spending $200. These days
however programmers are MUCH cheaper, you can get a PICKIT2 for around
$30, there are others. IMHO there is no point in trying to "save" $30.
Even a bare bones "one resistor" programmer could end up costing you $30
some day, either through a blown parallel port or simply trying to get
it working on a modern computer without a parallel port (USB parallel
port adapters are around $30, but would likely not even work with this
kind of programmer).

If you don't heed my advice, I would like to mention that the programmer
you point to relies on low voltage programming (LVP) mode being enabled.
This is fine, since all "fresh from the factory" PICs come with it
enabled. Beware though, if you disable low voltage programming support
you can never re-enable it with that programmer.

TTYL

2007\07\24@122302 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> Beware though, if you
> disable low voltage programming support you can never
> re-enable it with that programmer.

fortunately you can't disable LVP with an LVP programmer. sometimes even
Microchip does something right :)

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\07\24@132907 by Jan Wagemakers

face picon face

Tobias Gogolin schreef:

> well so far I don't like the answers I got I see no reasons why a well
> designed simple programmer shouldn't work but

I make use of a simple JDM-programmer and indeed it works nice.

> of course I understand where the wind is blowing from, you guys want to
> sell!

I don't think so. People are just giving you advice. Although a simple
programmer can work very well, it is important to know that they have there
limitations.

For example, when I wanted to use my JDM-programmer on my laptop, it doesn't
work because of the voltage on the serial port of my latop is too low for a
JDM-style programmer[¹].

At the moment I don't see these limitations as a problem - it's just a hobby
and I enjoy fixing problems while I'm drinking a nice Belgian beer ;-) - so
I keep using a JDM-style programmer.


[¹] <www.janw.dommel.be/nanoblogger/archives/2006/04/01/index.html#e2006-04-01T13_24_44.txt>
--
Met vriendelijke groetjes         - Jan Wagemakers -

... Fidonet : 2:292/100.19

2007\07\24@204122 by Hector Martin

flavicon
face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> JDMs may have its usage last time. Not now. They are junk now.
Unless you want to bootstrap yourself into a real programmer. JDM's are
a cheap and easy way to get a PIC programmed using only a breadboard and
junk parts. You can then use that PIC as the brain of a serial or USB
programmer.

I still keep around my JDM. I haven't used it in ages (I use a homebuilt
wisp628 now), but I keep it around just in case. If I'm ever in a hurry
and my '628 is unavailable, I could still use it.

--
Hector Martin (hectorEraseMEspam.....marcansoft.com)
Public Key: http://www.marcansoft.com/marcan.asc

2007\07\26@141904 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
Tobias Gogolin wrote:

> well so far I don't like the answers I got
> I see no reasons why a well designed simple programmer shouldn't work
> but of course I understand where the wind is blowing from, you guys want to
> sell!

Well, while I agree that many programmers available for sale will save
you lots of time and in the end money too,
I'm still using a basic NoPPP programmer that I developed back in 2001.
Once in a while I add some devices to the available algorhitms (main App
is developed in C for Windows). It just works off the RS232, and has a
power supply, a regulator and some 2 transistors.

I also created a quite simple USB version for use on recent notebooks
which don't have a serial port. In some sense this one is much more
smart, but actually the PIC is about the only difference in the schematic.

So, if you have time and will to learn, I ssure suggest you build your
own and share your results.
But, of course, it won't be quick neither cheap!


--
Ciao, Dario
--
ADPM Synthesis sas - Torino
--
http://www.adpm.tk

2007\07\26@143241 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 7/26/07, Dario Greggio <EraseMEadpm.tospaminwind.it> wrote:
> So, if you have time and will to learn, I ssure suggest you build your
> own and share your results.

Good idea...

> But, of course, it won't be quick neither cheap!
>
That is the whole point.

2007\07\30@203957 by peter green

flavicon
face
Tobias Gogolin wrote:
> well so far I don't like the answers I got
> I see no reasons why a well designed simple programmer shouldn't work
>  
The fact is that to program a pic with good reliability you need the
following

1: A couple of IO lines that can be controlled accurately by some kind
of programmable deviced
2: a line that can change between ground and the programming voltage
(varies by pic)

The only way to get theese with a non intelligent design is to abuse the
serial port using arrangements of diodes. This works for classic
motherboard serial ports but is far less likely to work with laptop
serial ports (which are usually lacking in voltage) or usb to serial
converters (which can't get the tight timing relationships between lines).

Intelligent programmers work much better and there are many designs for
such programmers out on the net. The problem with such designs though is
a chicken and egg one, you can't program the PIC in the programmer
unless you already have a programmer that works.

sorry to bust your bubble but the sad fact is that PCs were never really
designed to do the low level bit twidling required to program a PIC and
in recent times things have gone from bad to worse.

2007\07\30@204218 by peter green

flavicon
face

> fortunately you can't disable LVP with an LVP programmer. sometimes even
> Microchip does something right :)
>  
I wonder if you can program with LVP and then disable LVP using the self
programming facilities of the chip ;)

2007\07\31@031516 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> > fortunately you can't disable LVP with an LVP programmer. sometimes
> > even Microchip does something right :)
> >  
>
> I wonder if you can program with LVP and then disable LVP
> using the self
> programming facilities of the chip ;)

I guess you know where to find the answer?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\07\31@050518 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> fortunately you can't disable LVP with an LVP programmer.
>> sometimes even Microchip does something right :)
>>
>I wonder if you can program with LVP and then disable LVP
>using the self programming facilities of the chip ;)

I don't think you can. I haven't checked the data sheets, but seem to
remember that you cannot change the LVP bit without using HV programming. It
is in the configuration word, and some aspects of that word have to use HVP.

2007\07\31@053535 by Justin Richards

face picon face
I was bidding on one of these  on ebay (so I can start work on the
tcp/ip stack thing)

http://cgi.ebay.com/MPLAB-IDE-ICD-2-DEBUGGER-18F4520-LCM-hybrid-demo-board_W0QQitemZ230156540059QQihZ013QQcategoryZ4661QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or search for "MPLAB IDE ICD 2"

and thought it was a great deal.  But after reading this thread I am
glad I have been outbid.

Is there anything wrong with what I was bidding on.  It appears to be
supported by mplab, it does ICSP, ICD and comes with a development
brd, I am getting suckered in here or is this simply a goood deal.

Regards Justin


'[PIC] Best low Component Count Serial Programmer f'
2007\08\07@141219 by Tobias Gogolin
picon face
I got theparalel port programmer as by instructions from
http://home.earthlink.net/~davesullins/software/pic18f.html<home.earthlink.net/%7Edavesullins/software/pic18f.html>
It seems to work as far as being able to read the Chip type

But I got this little error, and would appreciate if you could please give
me some hints on it...

C:\Solix\BROCCO~1.7>writepic tbl.hex
Detecting PIC... Found PIC18F4320.
Using hex file tbl.hex.
Reading hex file...
Erasing memory from 0 to 8192...
Programming memory from 0 to 8192...
Programming configuration bytes 0-13...
pic_verify_cfg: Cfg byte 6 doesn't match
Error in pic_setcfg: No such file or directory (ENOENT)

C:\Solix\BROCCO~1.7>

I have to admit I don't have the chip at that moment hooked up to anything
more than the programmer not even a crystal. the program is the compiled
tiny bootloader.

Thanks!


On 7/26/07, Dario Greggio <RemoveMEadpm.toEraseMEspamEraseMEinwind.it> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\08\17@011205 by Tobias Gogolin

picon face
Did I mention that I found what the config bit problem was about?
It was apparently the LVP config bit that would not set and was specified in
that tiny bootloader program that had the bit specified set:

I interject my heartfelt thanks for this great PIC programmer software
to Wolfgang Büscher

http://freenet-homepage.de/dl4yhf/winpicpr.html

And again To Dave Sullins for this Worlds most most efficient PIC Programmer
Circuit!
http://home.earthlink.net/~davesullins/software/pic18f.html

While I have to admit that Dave Brocolly or  The Porttalk driver (allowio)
only worked for a brief timeframe

Now (and it might be because I installed zone alarm) it hangs.

Wolfgangs program works because one can configure it to almost any pinout
imaginable by a little config file.
However his program WinPIC does not yet support low voltage programming...
so it can only read and toggle the lines...
I may end up adding those resistors and use the computers own +12V for  Vpp

Im also wondering about the code her in the tiny bootloader (congratulations
to Claudiu Chicolita
http://www.etc.ugal.ro/cchiculita/software/picbootloader.htm)

My question: if I use an 8MHz Quarz Oscilator ill change only the first
occurence of 20000000 in the inital definition of 'xtal' or also further
down ...

Thanks!


   radix DEC
   LIST      P=18F4320    ; change also: Configure->SelectDevice from Mplab

xtal EQU 20000000        ; you may want to change: _XT_OSC_1H  _HS_OSC_1H
_HSPLL_OSC_1H
baud EQU 115200            ; standard TinyBld baud rates: 115200 or 19200
   ; The above 3 lines can be changed and buid a bootloader for the desired
frequency (and PIC type)

   ;********************************************************************
   ;    Tiny Bootloader        18F series        Size=100words
   ;    RemoveMEclaudiu.chiculitaspam_OUTspamKILLspamugal.ro
   ;    www.etc.ugal.ro/cchiculita/software/picbootloader.htm
   ;********************************************************************
   ;    Updated to 18F4320 by Jay.slovak 2005, RemoveMEjay.slovakTakeThisOuTspamspamzoznam.sk

   #include "..\icdpictypes.inc"    ;takes care of: #include "p18fxxx.inc",
max_flash, IdTypePIC
   #include "..\spbrgselect.inc"    ; RoundResult and baud_rate

       #define first_address max_flash-200        ;100 words

       __CONFIG    _CONFIG1H, _IESO_ON_1H & _FSCM_ON_1H & _HS_OSC_1H
       __CONFIG    _CONFIG2L, _BOR_ON_2L & _BORV_20_2L & _PWRT_ON_2L
       __CONFIG    _CONFIG2H, _WDT_OFF_2H & _WDTPS_128_2H
       __CONFIG    _CONFIG4L, _STVR_ON_4L & _DEBUG_OFF_4L

; not anymore... : & _LVP_OFF_4L
;----------------------------- PROGRAM ---------------------------------
   cblock 0
   crc
   i
   cnt1
   cnt2
   cnt3
   counter_hi
   counter_lo
   flag
   endc
   cblock 10
   buffer:64
   dummy4crc
   endc

SendL macro car
   movlw car
   movwf TXREG
   endm

;0000000000000000000000000 RESET 00000000000000000000000000

       ORG     0x0000
       GOTO    IntrareBootloader
BEGIN_NORMAL        ORG    0x0004    ;Place "GOTO START" @ 0004h in your
application

;view with TabSize=4
;&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&   START     &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
;----------------------  Bootloader  ----------------------
;PC_flash:        C1h                U        H        L        x  ...  <64
bytes>   ...  crc
;PC_eeprom:        C1h                   40h   EEADR   EEDATA    0
crc
;PC_cfg            C1h            U OR 80h    H        L        1
byte    crc
;PIC_response:       type `K`

   ORG first_address        ;space to deposit first 4 instr. of user prog.
   GOTO    BEGIN_NORMAL
   nop
   nop
   org first_address+8
IntrareBootloader
                           ;init serial port
   movlw b'00100100'
   movwf TXSTA
   movlw spbrg_value
   movwf SPBRG
   movlw b'10010000'
   movwf RCSTA
                           ;wait for computer
   rcall Receive
   sublw 0xC1                ;Expect C1h
   bnz way_to_exit
   SendL IdTypePIC            ;send PIC type
MainLoop
   SendL 'K'                ; "-Everything OK, ready and waiting."
mainl
   clrf crc
   rcall Receive            ;Upper
   movwf TBLPTRU
       movwf flag            ;(for EEPROM and CFG cases)
   rcall Receive            ;Hi
   movwf TBLPTRH
       movwf EEADR            ;(for EEPROM case)
   rcall Receive            ;Lo
   movwf TBLPTRL
       movwf EEDATA        ;(for EEPROM case)

   rcall Receive            ;count
   movwf i
   incf i
   lfsr FSR0, (buffer-1)
rcvoct                        ;read 64+1 bytes
       movwf TABLAT        ;prepare for cfg; => store byte before crc
   rcall Receive
   movwf PREINC0
   decfsz i
   bra rcvoct

   tstfsz crc                ;check crc
   bra ziieroare
       btfss flag,6        ;is EEPROM data?
       bra noeeprom
       movlw b'00000100'    ;Setup eeprom
       rcall Write
       bra waitwre
noeeprom
       btfss flag,7        ;is CFG data?
       bra noconfig
       tblwt*                ;write TABLAT(byte before crc) to TBLPTR***
       movlw b'11000100'    ;Setup cfg
       rcall Write
       bra waitwre
noconfig
                           ;write
eraseloop
   movlw    b'10010100'        ; Setup erase
   rcall Write
   TBLRD*-                    ; point to adr-1

writebigloop
   movlw 8                    ; 8groups
   movwf counter_hi
   lfsr FSR0,buffer
writesloop
   movlw 8                    ; 8bytes = 4instr
   movwf counter_lo
writebyte
   movf POSTINC0,w            ; put 1 byte
   movwf TABLAT
   tblwt+*
   decfsz counter_lo
   bra writebyte

   movlw    b'10000100'        ; Setup writes
   rcall Write
   decfsz counter_hi
   bra writesloop
waitwre
   ;btfsc EECON1,WR        ;for eeprom writes (wait to finish write)
   ;bra waitwre            ;no need: round trip time with PC bigger than
4ms

   bcf EECON1,WREN            ;disable writes
   bra MainLoop

ziieroare                    ;CRC failed
   SendL 'N'
   bra mainl

;******** procedures ******************

Write
   movwf EECON1
   movlw 0x55
   movwf EECON2
   movlw 0xAA
   movwf EECON2
   bsf EECON1,WR            ;WRITE
   nop
   ;nop
   return


Receive
   movlw xtal/2000000+1    ; for 20MHz => 11 => 1second delay
   movwf cnt1
rpt2
   clrf cnt2
rpt3
   clrf cnt3
rptc
       btfss PIR1,RCIF            ;test RX
       bra notrcv
       movf RCREG,w            ;return read data in W
       addwf crc,f                ;compute crc
       return
notrcv
   decfsz cnt3
   bra rptc
   decfsz cnt2
   bra rpt3
   decfsz cnt1
   bra rpt2
   ;timeout:
way_to_exit
   bcf    RCSTA,    SPEN            ; deactivate UART
   bra first_address
;*************************************************************
; After reset
; Do not expect the memory to be zero,
; Do not expect registers to be initialised like in catalog.

           END


On 8/7/07, Tobias Gogolin <EraseMEusertogospamspamspamBeGonegmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > --

2007\08\19@093021 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> But I got this little error, and would appreciate if you
> could please give me some hints on it...

Browsing through my backlog, so maybe unneeded, but:

check whether you hex file contains 0's where the PIC hardware has
hard-wires 1's or the other way round.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



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