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'[PIC] 16F877 Confusion'
2005\05\11@135037 by CYBERIA429-PICLIST

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Picers - I need to buy a few 16F877's/F877A's but I'm somewhat confused by the
options. A company like, eg Futurlec offers the following :-

http://www.futurlec.com/

PIC16F877-04/P        PIC16F877 Flash 40-pin 4MHz 8kB Micro
PIC16F877-20/P        PIC16F877 Flash 40-pin 20MHz 8kB Micro. With A/D PIC16F877A-I/L
       
PIC16F877A Flash 44-pin 4MHz 8kB Microcontroller (??)
PIC16F877A-I/P        PIC16F877A Flash 40-pin 4MHz 8kB Microcontroller        

For starters, 44 pin is no good 'coz I use a 40 pin Picstart+

What's this 4Mhz vs 20MHz? There's no mention of different speed limits in my
PIC16F87X Microchip data sheet - they're all DC to 20MHz, aren't they?          

I'm only in the xptal stage - doing LCDs, starting out on I2C, ADC  & stuff
like that. Would anyone be willing to offer advice on what I should go for?
Especially any gotchas v/v the F877A?

Thankz if can help - Debbie :)

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2005\05\11@140902 by William Bross

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Debbie,
The 877 devices are characterized by their maximum operating frequency.  
The 877A devices are all dc to 20 megahertz.  The 877 and 877A use
different programming algorithims which isn't a big deal since you are
using a PS+ programmer.

I like the 877A and have put over 2000 in the field without incident.  I
also like tiny bootloader and use it with my non comercial projects.

Bill

spam_OUTcyberia429-piclistTakeThisOuTspamyahoo.com.au wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2005\05\11@140951 by John J. McDonough

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For starters, the 44 pin is probably a TQFP, rather than a DIP.  Look for
the /P on the end

The I/P at 4 MHz is a bit confusing, I thought the I only came in 20 MHz.
But the 04/P clearly is a 4 MHz part ... they are not all 20 MHz.  I is a
little better temperature spec than the plain part, but not as good as E.  I
stands for Industrial and E for automotive(!)  For hobbyist use it doesn't
matter, but it gets hot under the hood of a car.

The A part is a little cheaper than the plain, and it has some additional
feature, although I don't recall what ... another comparator maybe?  The A
part needs newer software to program it than the plain part, I don't know
whether that is an issue with the Picstart+, but it is with a lot of
programmers.

--McD

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\11@142417 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> What's this 4Mhz vs 20MHz? There's no mention of different speed
limits in my
> PIC16F87X Microchip data sheet - they're all DC to 20MHz, aren't they?


Nope.        -04's are tested to 4 MHz only. No gurantee up to 20 Mhz, but no
gurantee of failure either.

> I'm only in the xptal stage - doing LCDs, starting out on I2C, ADC  &
stuff
> like that. Would anyone be willing to offer advice on what I should go
for?
> Especially any gotchas v/v the F877A?

Your progger must explicitly support the 877A. If so go for that one. If
not you'll have to do with the 877.

If you are not in love with the 14-bit processor core you might check
the 'compareable' 18F chips: 18F452 and 18F4520 (= newer version).

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\05\11@151331 by olin_piclist

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cyberia429-piclist@yahoo.com.au wrote:
> PIC16F877-04/P PIC16F877 Flash 40-pin 4MHz 8kB Micro
> PIC16F877-20/P PIC16F877 Flash 40-pin 20MHz 8kB Micro. With A/D
> PIC16F877A-I/L
> PIC16F877A Flash 44-pin 4MHz 8kB Microcontroller (??)
> PIC16F877A-I/P PIC16F877A Flash 40-pin 4MHz 8kB Microcontroller
>
> For starters, 44 pin is no good 'coz I use a 40 pin Picstart+

That's the QFP package variant.  The DIP package has 40 pins.

> What's this 4Mhz vs 20MHz?

Some don't make the grade during test.  So instead of tossing them, they
sell them for a reduced price.

> Would anyone be willing to offer advice on what I
> should go for? Especially any gotchas v/v the F877A?

Microchip has many PICs so that there is usually a pretty tight fit for most
volume applications where a few cents makes a difference.  If you are
looking for something to use in low volume, like for personal projects, most
of the PICs don't make sense.  The 16F877A is a capable part, but for
general purpose low volume use I wouldn't mess with the 16 family at all
except when physical size and sometimes power consumption is important.

For general purpose "hobby" PICs from 28 to 40 pins in DIP package, I would
stick to the PIC 30 family or at least the PIC 18 family.  Some choices are:

30F3013  -  28 pins, 12 bit A/Ds, 2 UARTS, 8K code words
30F4012  -  28 pins, 10 bit A/Ds, 1 UART, 16K code words
30F4011  -  Same as 30F4012 but in 40 pin package

18F4520  -  General purpose 40 pin, same footprint as 16F877A but faster and
 more memory
18F2520  -  Same thing in 28 pins.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\05\12@045800 by Alan B. Pearce

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> What's this 4Mhz vs 20MHz?

IIRC (as in I haven't checked the datasheet) the 877A version always comes
in 20MHz, where the non-A version does have two speed versions. Others have
already pointed out the 44 pin and other differences.

All the info about these variations is at the end of the data sheet where it
gives the ordering codes, and points you at the package differences.

2005\05\12@133918 by Debbie

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Thankz everybody! I picked up 2 x F877A's @ AUD12 yesterday so I can carry on
PIC'n with them. The 18 -> 30 family probably next on list - hah, I only just
"graduated" from the 16F84!  Main thing I'm trying to get my head around right
now is I2C.
best6 - Debbie :)

--- Olin Lathrop <.....olin_piclistKILLspamspam@spam@embedinc.com> wrote:>  
> For general purpose "hobby" PICs from 28 to 40 pins in DIP package, I would
> stick to the PIC 30 family or at least the PIC 18 family.  Some choices are:
> 30F3013  -  28 pins, 12 bit A/Ds, 2 UARTS, 8K code words
> 30F4012  -  28 pins, 10 bit A/Ds, 1 UART, 16K code words
> 30F4011  -  Same as 30F4012 but in 40 pin package

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