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'[PIC] [ADMIN] A new topic tag has been added - [AR'
2007\03\19@162249 by Dan Smith

face picon face
Following a suggestion by Wouter...

On 19/03/07, wouter van ooijen <spam_OUTwouterTakeThisOuTspamvoti.nl> wrote:
> (Jame & fellow admins: how about an [ARM] tag?)

...and a quick discussion among the admins, we have decided to add an
[ARM] topic tag to the list.

Anyone that wishes to update which tags they are subscribed to can do
so by visiting <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist>

Dan

2007\03\20@014211 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> Following a suggestion by Wouter...

> On 19/03/07, wouter van ooijen <.....wouterKILLspamspam@spam@voti.nl> wrote:
>> (Jame & fellow admins: how about an [ARM] tag?)

> ...and a quick discussion among the admins, we have decided to add
> an
> [ARM] topic tag to the list.

> Anyone that wishes to update which tags they are subscribed to can
> do
> so by visiting <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist>

Funny how such an unimportant area of such little interest [ :-) ] can
get a new tag at the drop of a hint whereas really important
additions, such as a better delineation of  ... OT / TECHO / EE / ...
meets with, literally, years of explanation of how it can't be done,
too much load on the system, too much load on the admin, too hard for
people with PICList level intelligence to understand etc :-)

[TECHO] (or some similar tag) sits between [OT] and [EE] as a real
home for "Everything Engineering" and allow "Electrical Engineering"
to live in [EE] and other technical matters of general engineering and
technical interest, but obviously not OT for such a list, lives in
[TECHO].

I won't even mention [WOT] :-)



           Russell


2007\03\20@025641 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
As before, the effort to police posts in ARM is expected to be MUCH less
than trying to help people understand the fine line between EE, OT, WOT,
TECHNO, and FUNK. Adding EE caused more, not less, work for us admins. The
next person who crys for another topic tag, unrelated to a specific
microcontroller, had better follow it up with an offer to help admin the
list.

IN OTHER WORDS: You think you can run the list better? Fine! Run it your
damn self.

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
jamesnewtonspamKILLspampiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com




> {Original Message removed}

2007\03\20@044826 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> As before, the effort to police posts in ARM is expected to be MUCH
> less
> than trying to help people understand the fine line between EE, OT,
> WOT,
> TECHNO, and FUNK. Adding EE caused more, not less, work for us
> admins. The
> next person who crys for another topic tag, unrelated to a specific
> microcontroller, had better follow it up with an offer to help admin
> the
> list.

> IN OTHER WORDS: You think you can run the list better?

Of course not. Never said or suggested. Of course :-)

> Fine! Run it your damn self.

Tsk, tsk, tsk  :-).
The children cry for bread and are fed rocks :-(.
If I can assist in some manner in [TECHO] or maybe even [TECH] (not
[TECHNO] please :-) ) and [EE] delineation then mayhaps I could. I
probably cause many of the [EE] queries by people who don't understand
[EE] as "everything engineering" which is a fine concept but a rather
foreign one to most people.

I have been a long long long time supplicant for [TECHO] or equivalent
and I have never understood the resistance to it.

You have a descending hierarchy where eg more general tag has an
easily defined subject and excludes everything above it.

PIC AVR ARM ...        all things principally related to these
processors.

[EE] Anything dealing with "electrical engineering" outside
PIC/AVR/ARM/...

[TECHO] All things technical of interest to engineers but not
principally about electrical engineering or PIC etc

Then [OT] becomes eg "All things not dealing with electrical
engineering or technical matters in any way"  leaves the rest.
You can add such caveats to that as you wish.  eg Not hate speech,
personal abuse or flaming under any circumstances (except by .....
where it is marginally tolerated under protest) and NO sex, religion,
warfare, politics except where initiated by and only while condoned by
admins.

I'd guess that eg Global Warming can sneak well enough into [TECHO]
(although it's also got elements of religion on both sides)(but then,
most things have).

Having the continuum:

       [OT] [TECHO] [EE]  [ PIC | ARM | AVR | ...]

seems to double buffer PIC from OT, which seems often enough the area
of most dispute and annoyance. People who are hard core PIC only
subscribers complain about having their tag used for almost anything
that doesn't include the mention of PIC or PIC code every paragraph,
and this would seem to provide a more obvious playing field for those
who can't differentiate betwixt a PIC, a barrel shifter and a rain
barrel.




Quite what the problem is I really can't see.
And I've never seen any explanation which didn't at core translate
down to "we don't want to".
Which, of course, is a perfectly fine explanation from a list owner
:-)


   your respectful list user,



                       Russell


Carburettors?        TECHO
Tarpits                    Probably techo
Triodes                    EE
Trampolines            TECH or OT depending on the perspective.
Eggbeaters            TECHO or maybe EE if electric and that's the
focus.
6500 uP                EE (or ARM if you are talking history)
Trilobites              Probably TECHO

EE                    book on vhdl
TECHO            fire prevention by deoxygenation
EE                        xxx data sheet
EE                    RDS format
EE                    BIT Torrent DRM ...
EE                    Data projector bulbs
TECHO            Mil spec for submarine porthole cleaners
TECHO            Make mistakes ... (prob not OT)
TECHO            Glenbrook steam festival
TECHO            DIY camera sensor cleaning
TECHO            Awesome spiral galaxy images
TECHO            Google labs
TECHO            Simulated satellite cam
EE                    Factors affecting HDD longevity
EE                    Jelly bean mosfets
TECHO            G Drive ...
TECHO            Legitimate Vista activation extension.





2007\03\20@053012 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


>-----Original Message-----
>From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu [EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu]
>On Behalf Of Dan Smith
>Sent: 19 March 2007 20:23
>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>Subject: [PIC] [ADMIN] A new topic tag has been added - [ARM]
>
>
>Following a suggestion by Wouter...
>
>On 19/03/07, wouter van ooijen <wouterspamspam_OUTvoti.nl> wrote:
>> (Jame & fellow admins: how about an [ARM] tag?)
>
>...and a quick discussion among the admins, we have decided to
>add an [ARM] topic tag to the list.
>
>Anyone that wishes to update which tags they are subscribed to
>can do so by visiting <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist>

Excellent news!  I hope there are plenty of ARM users that I can ask noob-like questions to.

Cheers

Mike

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2007\03\20@054937 by John Chung

picon face
ARM is a definite plus. The only problem is due to
it's
unfriendly packaging for hobbiest. Once mounted it
would be a blast writing for it.


John


--- Michael Rigby-Jones
<@spam@Michael.Rigby-JonesKILLspamspambookham.com> wrote:

>
>
> >{Original Message removed}

2007\03\20@061051 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
> Anyone that wishes to update which tags they are subscribed
> to can do so by visiting
> <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist>

Umm, how do you update tags there? It only seems to allow new subscriptions.

2007\03\20@073747 by Dan Smith

face picon face
On 20/03/07, Alan B. Pearce <KILLspamA.B.PearceKILLspamspamrl.ac.uk> wrote:
> > Anyone that wishes to update which tags they are subscribed
> > to can do so by visiting
> > <http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist>
>
> Umm, how do you update tags there? It only seems to allow new subscriptions.

If you scroll down to the bottom of the page there is a section marked
'Piclist Subscribers'.

Where it says 'To unsubscribe from Piclist, get a password reminder,
or change your subscription options enter your subscription email
address:', enter your email address and click on 'Unsubscribe or edit
options'.

Dan

2007\03\20@074116 by olin piclist

face picon face
John Chung wrote:
> ARM is a definite plus. The only problem is due to
> it's
> unfriendly packaging for hobbiest. Once mounted it
> would be a blast writing for it.

Shouldn't this be tagged [ARM]?

********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2007\03\20@074328 by olin piclist

face picon face
Russell McMahon wrote:
> Funny how such an unimportant area of such little interest [ :-) ] can
> get a new tag at the drop of a hint whereas really important
> additions, such as a better delineation of  ... OT / TECHO / EE / ...
> meets with, literally, years of explanation of how it can't be done,
> too much load on the system, too much load on the admin, too hard for
> people with PICList level intelligence to understand etc :-)

I don't think it's funny at all, just common sense.  ARM is a clearly
deliniated topic.  Your TECHO, new definition of EE, WOT, or whatever else
are too vague.  The definition is largely up to each individual, which will
create a mess.  I wouldn't know which ones to subscribe to and would
probably regularly complain about abuses.  Then we'd have frequent threads
like "That was OT, you moron", "No it wasn't, are you the only living brain
donor or something?", etc.

It also occurs to me that your main objective is to allow for dumping even
more off the wall posts onto the list.  Why should MIT or anyone else pay
for bandwidth for WOT?  That would be a bunch of useless babble between
excessively bored get-a-lifers.  Aren't there already lots of web forums for
Kaffee Klatsches?

Obviously we need a set of clearly defined topic tags that everyone can
understand:

[ARM] - For ARM architecture microcontrollers, problems with your elbow, and
questions about how to throw a baseball better.

[EE] - Electrical enginneering.

[ELEC] - Everything engineering less electrical, except of course when it
applies to ARM microcontrollers, problems with your elbow, or how to throw a
baseball better.

[TECH] - General technology, although directly engineering related is
verboten since that is covered by ELEC and EE.  Science is OK, but it better
not be applied else it is engineering.  It's OK to talk about how something
works, but not how to build one else you will be unsubscribed immediately.

[TECHO] - Technology overflow.  Sorta like TECH, except more broad with a
tighter focus, but definitely not engineering (mostly).  The rules are more
lax that TECH.  Offenders will get FIRST WARNING, then SECOND WARNING, then
some number of Nth WARNING before being unsubscribed.  The Nth WARNINGs are
to make it easier for admins so they don't have to keep count past 2.

[TECHNO] - No technology allowed.  If technology is mentioned, it must only
be while discussing superstions or religious beliefs about it, although
direct discussion of religion is of course totally banned.  Offenders
discussing religion are immediately excommunicated from the list.

[OT] - Other topics.  Everything that doesn't fit in any of the above or
below topics.

[RUSSEL] - Brief discussion and links to the dregs from recent web surfing.

[PIC] - Deprecated.  Messages to this topic are automatically forwarded to
the Microchip Forums.  There is no point duplicating effort and splitting
the PIC community into two online forums.  Besides the extra bandwidth from
PIC may cause MIT to pull the plug on the list altogether, and then there'd
be no place left to argue about who is really a space alien or whether it is
better to use assembler or have broccoli for dinner.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2007\03\20@083606 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>If you scroll down to the bottom of the page there is a
>section marked 'Piclist Subscribers'.
>
>Where it says 'To unsubscribe from Piclist, get a password reminder,
>or change your subscription options enter your subscription email
>address:', enter your email address and click on 'Unsubscribe or edit
>options'.

Ah, got it now. Hmm, the password reminder I had previously has a link that
takes me straight to my page  ..... ;)

2007\03\20@090802 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 3/20/07, Olin Lathrop <RemoveMEolin_piclistTakeThisOuTspamembedinc.com> wrote:

> [PIC] - Deprecated.  Messages to this topic are automatically forwarded to
> the Microchip Forums.  There is no point duplicating effort and splitting
> the PIC community into two online forums.

Interesting ideas. The problem is how to forward the topics to the
relevant sub-forum. Pretty difficult to achieve... And then PIClist is
no longer PIClist...

2007\03\20@093347 by olin piclist

face picon face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> The problem is how to forward the topics to the
> relevant sub-forum. Pretty difficult to achieve.

A relatively dumb keyword matching program could probably do a better job
than many of the posters over there.  While we're at it, we could delay any
post with "urgent" or "immediate" in its title for 24 hours while the poster
learns some humility.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2007\03\20@094349 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


>-----Original Message-----
>From: spamBeGonepiclist-bouncesspamBeGonespammit.edu [TakeThisOuTpiclist-bouncesEraseMEspamspam_OUTmit.edu]
>On Behalf Of Olin Lathrop
>Sent: 20 March 2007 11:43
>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>Subject: Re: [PIC] [ADMIN] A new topic tag has been added - [ARM]
>
>
>[PIC] - Deprecated.  Messages to this topic are automatically
>forwarded to the Microchip Forums.  There is no point
>duplicating effort and splitting the PIC community into two
>online forums.  Besides the extra bandwidth from PIC may cause
>MIT to pull the plug on the list altogether, and then there'd
>be no place left to argue about who is really a space alien or
>whether it is better to use assembler or have broccoli for dinner.

I understand your reasoning, but the piclist is a mailing list, not a web forum and much better for it IMO.  I find working through new posts on a mail reader far easier and more intuitive than any web based bulletin board I have used, and you also get to build your own archive of interesting posts.

Regards

Mike

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2007\03\20@131749 by Robert Rolf

picon face
The 'listinfo' file/page
mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
doesn't yet mention the new ARM tag.

And it also says [EE] is "ELECTRICAL engineering" (power systems??),
not ELECTRONICS engineering or 'everything' engineering.
No wonder people don't know what EE tag is for...

And you do have to OPT IN to receive the ARM tagged posts since the default it
to NOT receive them, and since they have a VALID tag, they won't be forwarded by
the 'see all untagged posts' option.
Just visit the above URL and hope you remember your password <G>.

James Newton, Host wrote:
> As before, the effort to police posts in ARM is expected to be MUCH less
> than trying to help people understand the fine line between EE, OT, WOT,
> TECHNO, and FUNK. Adding EE caused more, not less, work for us admins. The
> next person who crys for another topic tag, unrelated to a specific
> microcontroller, had better follow it up with an offer to help admin the
> list.
>
> IN OTHER WORDS: You think you can run the list better? Fine! Run it your
> damn self.

I'd be happy to help, since I already run a mailman based astronomy list,
but you then run the risk of 'too many cooks'.

Robert

2007\03\20@134920 by Ariel Rocholl

picon face
I think ARM addition is explicit enough, very appropriate, and concise. I do
agree fully on not adding more "generic" tags to the list.
Ultimately, moderators are not only owners of the list but also demonstrated
a great intuition in the past, where this list was originally limited to
PIC but has grown to a really big success in a number of areas, now
including ARM. So my big thanks to moderators and keep doing like this.

Now let's concentrate in the PCB and chip in front of you to do some funny
thing... ;-)


2007/3/20, Robert Rolf <RemoveMERobert.RolfspamTakeThisOuTualberta.ca>:
>
> >
> > IN OTHER WORDS: You think you can run the list better? Fine! Run it your
> > damn self.
>
> I'd be happy to help, since I already run a mailman based astronomy list,
> but you then run the risk of 'too many cooks'.
>
>

--
Ariel Rocholl
Madrid, Spain

2007\03\20@140829 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> I understand your reasoning, but the piclist is a mailing
> list, not a web forum and much better for it IMO.  I find
> working through new posts on a mail reader far easier and
> more intuitive than any web based bulletin board I have used,
> and you also get to build your own archive of interesting posts.

Maybe Olin can convince the Microchip fora to foward their postings to
the piclist? (Maybe make a new tag for that? [PIC-uCHIP]?)   :) :) :)

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\03\21@100029 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> It also occurs to me that your main objective is to allow for
> dumping even
> more off the wall posts onto the list.

It may occur to you but it occurs wrongly.
You may, but may not have noted that I mentioned [WOT] at the end as a
joke and made no representations about it. My interest is, and always
has been, in having something like [TECHO] to make people like
yourself and James (not of course to mention me :-) ) happier.

It's not obvious to me (as you'd expect) why my example definitions
are unclear. They seem to me, fwiw, to be a fairly clear progression
of

   specific topics / electrical engineering / technology / other.

It's not clear what's not clear about that.

> Why should MIT or anyone else pay
> for bandwidth for WOT?  That would be a bunch of useless babble
> between
> excessively bored get-a-lifers.  Aren't there already lots of web
> forums for
> Kaffee Klatsches?

Don't know what relevance whatsoever that has to what I said but,
seeing you asked, I'm surprised that anyone would pay for most of what
goes on  on the net, and one man's worthwhile topic is another woman's
utter waste of time, but in fact WOT, which I, you may or may not
recall, made no representations about whatsoever, would probably help
keep troublesome subjects further away from the technical threads. We
could for example relegate to it all baiting of newcomers to the list,
abuse of people for having opinions that differ from somebody else's,
mentions of deceased marine creatures and states of lunar occultation,
and thereby improve overall list harmony immensely.

> [RUSSEL] - Brief discussion and links to the dregs from recent web
> surfing.

That would be [RUSSELL] to you (or [MR RUSSELL] if you prefer).
Try them, you'll like them. You'll find that almost any of my 'dregs'
that appear under [EE] are liable to improve your horizons and mental
capacity for new thought. Those under [OT] maybe not :-)



       [MR RUSSELL]







2007\03\21@102709 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> ... While we're at it, we could delay any
> post with "urgent" or "immediate" in its title for 24 hours while
> the poster
> learns some humility.

Or posts with sender ID of, er, no, forget it ...

:-)


       MR

2007\03\22@005233 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
> > [RUSSEL] - Brief discussion and links to the dregs from recent web
> > surfing.
>
> That would be [RUSSELL] to you (or [MR RUSSELL] if you prefer).
> Try them, you'll like them. You'll find that almost any of my 'dregs'
> that appear under [EE] are liable to improve your horizons
> and mental capacity for new thought. Those under [OT] maybe not :-)

The Russell tag already exists. It is very easy to set up most mail readers
to just delete all posts from any one poster....

...you would still have to deal with the replies.

And since Russell is very good about posting his OT posts with [OT] and his
engineering posts with [EE], if you don't have time to read them...

...TURN OFF THOSE TOPICS.

Very easy solutions here people; no need to change anything. And no need to
go on and on about this either. Continuing to discuss this is right on the
edge of trolling in my opinion.

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
jamesnewtonEraseMEspam.....piclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2007\03\22@092110 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
The [RUSSELL] tag already exists.  Of course, only those who receive
every post from the list will get it, but I bet if you start using it
(and other tags) then others will and eventually they may become
official merely because a lot of people are using them.

-Adam

On 3/21/07, Russell McMahon <EraseMEapptechspamparadise.net.nz> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\03\22@092253 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
On 3/20/07, Robert Rolf <RemoveMERobert.RolfEraseMEspamEraseMEualberta.ca> wrote:
> And you do have to OPT IN to receive the ARM tagged posts since the default it
> to NOT receive them, and since they have a VALID tag, they won't be forwarded by
> the 'see all untagged posts' option.
> Just visit the above URL and hope you remember your password <G>.

Really?  I've got all of the tags unchecked, and I receive all the
posts, including arm.

Of course, I barely have enough time to skim 1/3 of the subjects over
the entire list...

-Adam

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2007\03\22@103637 by Robert Rolf

picon face
M. Adam Davis wrote:
> On 3/20/07, Robert Rolf <RemoveMERobert.Rolfspam_OUTspamKILLspamualberta.ca> wrote:
>
>>And you do have to OPT IN to receive the ARM tagged posts since the default it
>>to NOT receive them, and since they have a VALID tag, they won't be forwarded by
>>the 'see all untagged posts' option.
>>Just visit the above URL and hope you remember your password <G>.
>
>
> Really?  I've got all of the tags unchecked, and I receive all the
> posts, including arm.


"Do you want to receive messages that do not match any topic filter?

This option only takes effect if you've subscribed to at least one topic above"
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Since you have selected NO tags, you DO get all the message posts.
If you had selected ANY topic tags, then you would NOT receive ANY untagged posts
UNLESS you also selected the 'do not match topic' filter. By logical extension
this means you would NOT receive the AVR tag even if you had 'do not match' selected,
UNLESS you also selected AVR.

> Of course, I barely have enough time to skim 1/3 of the subjects over
> the entire list...

Yes, I have the same problem, but a lot of the OT and WOT stuff is very enlightening
so I live with the very full inbox. That's why making the subject line relevant,
and changing in when the post topic substantially changes is important.

Robert

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