Searching \ for '[PIC]' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/devices.htm?key=pic
Search entire site for: '[PIC]'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[PIC]'
2000\09\22@104939 by jcsa Laszlo AII III

flavicon
face
(first email)
hy
i have a question
what is the difference between a PIC16f84 and PIC16c84
thanx







                                              Kajcsa Laszlo

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
use spam_OUTlistservTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST


2000\09\22@110407 by Francisco Armenta

flavicon
face
Kajcsa

The "C" letter is reference to EPROM, OTP  and  ROM device

The "F" letter is reference to FLASH device.

You can Check the Microchip site: http://www.microchip.com. for further
information.

Francisco



Kajcsa Laszlo AII III wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
use listservspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST


2000\09\22@114530 by staff

flavicon
face
Francisco Armenta wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Also the 16F84 has 68 bytes RAM the 16C84 only has 36 bytes.
That's pretty important.

Kajcsa, if you are going to be working with 16x84 chips
you should download the microchip datasheet for that
family, it has all the information you should need.
Microchip.com is a good free site, explore it! :o)
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
use .....listservKILLspamspam.....mitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST


2000\09\22@130041 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
When the 16C84 came out, it was the first flash chip available from microchip.
Every other PIC used C as its middle initial, and so did the 'c84.

That chip had some particular vulnerabilities due, in part, to its flash nature,
and so the chip was updated, and at that time the letter was changed to F to
reflect the fact that it is a flash chip.

The three differences I know of (and there is a list of differences at the end
of the data sheet):
The code protection was changed, resulting in a change in
programming was changed
memory registers were added

You don't need to worry too much about the C version as it is no longer
produced.  If you have some C versions then use them up first.  As you get into
programming your programs will require the extra memory of the F.

-Adam

Kajcsa Laszlo AII III wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
use listservspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST


2000\09\22@131733 by WF AUTOMACAO

flavicon
face
Again? See the PICLIST history...
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Kajcsa Laszlo AII III <@spam@lkajcsaKILLspamspamENGINEERING.UTTGM.RO>
Para: KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Data: Sexta-feira, 22 de Setembro de 2000 07:39
Assunto: [PIC]


{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
use TakeThisOuTlistservEraseMEspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST


2000\09\22@222102 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
Close, but I'm pretty sure the 16C84 was eeprom, not flash based.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

{Original Message removed}

2000\09\23@134237 by Nigel Goodwin

flavicon
face
In message <017f01c02503$b1bf2e80$RemoveME1bc91440spamTakeThisOuTsciencekit.com>, Bob Ammerman
<RAMMERMANEraseMEspam.....PRODIGY.NET> writes
>Close, but I'm pretty sure the 16C84 was eeprom, not flash based.

Yes, the 16C84 was EEPROM based, but isn't the 16F84 EEPROM based as
well?. They just changed the name to 'Flash' to compete with other
manufacturers who call their EEPROM products Flash as well!.
--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : EraseMEnigelgspamlpilsley.co.uk           |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.co.uk       |
       | Chesterfield    | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit   |
       | England         |                 Ju Jitsu                   |
       \--------------------------------------------------------------/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu


2000\09\23@155027 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
I'm not 100% sure but I do believe that FLASH != EPROM.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

{Original Message removed}

2000\09\23@181908 by Olin Lathrop

flavicon
face
> I'm not 100% sure but I do believe that FLASH != EPROM.

Yes, FLASH is one type of EPROM (Electrically Programmable Read Only
Memory).  FLASH can be correctly described as EEPROM (Electrically Erasable
Programmable Read Only Memory), however I think there are some trademark
restrictions on FLASH (not totally sure) whereas EEPROM is a generic term.
Sort of like "Kleenex" versus "facial tissue" (again, I'm not totally sure
about this).


*****************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, RemoveMEolinspam_OUTspamKILLspamcognivis.com, http://www.cognivis.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTspamspammitvma.mit.edu


2000\09\23@201745 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 06:40 PM 23/09/00 +0100, you wrote:
>In message <017f01c02503$b1bf2e80$EraseME1bc91440spamspamspamBeGonesciencekit.com>, Bob Ammerman
><RemoveMERAMMERMANKILLspamspamPRODIGY.NET> writes
>>Close, but I'm pretty sure the 16C84 was eeprom, not flash based.
>
>Yes, the 16C84 was EEPROM based, but isn't the 16F84 EEPROM based as
>well?. They just changed the name to 'Flash' to compete with other
>manufacturers who call their EEPROM products Flash as well!.
>--
>
>Nigel.

Yes, this is correct. Microchip does not have "Flash" anything except
by deceit.

16F8xx are all eeprom based and not flash eprom.

Atmel and microchip might be trying to blur the lines but some of us care
to remember what "flash" is and isn't.

-Jim

{Quote hidden}

Regards,

Jim Robertson
NEWFOUND ELECTRONICS
Email: KILLspamnewfoundspamBeGonespampipeline.com.au
http://www.new-elect.com
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu


2000\09\25@161102 by Davor Tolja

flavicon
face
I trying to learn how to use my 16F877, so this may seem like a
simple question...

If I have reserved several bytes to a label ( buffer   RES   20 )
how do go about reading/writing to that buffer?

Or if I have a predefined string ( string  da    "Test String" )
how do I go about displaying on an LCD. All I get are zeros.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2000\09\25@185302 by Olin Lathrop

flavicon
face
> If I have reserved several bytes to a label ( buffer   RES   20 )
> how do go about reading/writing to that buffer?

If you want to access specific locations within BUFFER, you can write
BUFFER+5,
BUFFER+13, etc.  More likely you want to access buffer location where the
specific buffer byte is determined at run time.  For that you need to use
indirect addressing.  You need to read section 2.5 on page 27, "Indirect
Addressing, INDF and FSR Registers".


*****************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, @spam@olin@spam@spamspam_OUTcognivis.com, http://www.cognivis.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics



'[PIC]'
2000\10\06@072915 by Andrew Kunz
flavicon
face
Andy,

Download the PICLITE compiler from http://www.htsoft.com

It is great as a tool to learn C.  That, and a thin book.

If you know BASIC, then the concepts and a lot of function names will make sense
to you.

Andy










Andy Howard <spamBeGonemusicaspamKILLspamUKONLINE.CO.UK> on 10/06/2000 06:43:50 AM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <.....PICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      TakeThisOuTPICLIST.....spamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject:








I've just started looking into ethernet and internet connections for some of
our devices and almost all the examples I come across are in C so it looks
like it's time for me to bite the bullet and teach myself some C
programming. I'm starting out from an engineering background with a fair
knowlege of using assembly on Z80 and PIC - but the only higher-level
language I've used before is BASIC.

Does anyone know of any not-too-expensive computer-based training for the C
language? Something that's embedded-oriented would be great, but almost
anything would do to get me jump-started. It doesn't have to be CBT but that
seems like a good way to learn programming and I know from previous threads
that books on C for embedded applications are uncommon.

I also know pretty much nothing about Computer Science and programming
theory so any pointers to a gentle beginner's guide to CS topics either in
book or electronic form would be welcome too.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2000\10\06@083946 by Andy Howard

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Kunz" <TakeThisOuTakunzKILLspamspamspamTDIPOWER.COM>
To: <.....PICLISTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]


> Andy,
> Download the PICLITE compiler from http://www.htsoft.com
> It is great as a tool to learn C.  That, and a thin book.
> If you know BASIC, then the concepts and a lot of function names will make
sense
> to you.


Thanks Andy, I'll go and grab that right now.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.



'[PIC]'
2000\11\06@175521 by .Timmerman Digest
flavicon
picon face
Hello List,

This is my first post to this list, and I am just taking up
micros as a hobby.  In my first project, I am considering using
a Dallas Semi Digital Potentiometer.  Specifically I am looking
at the 10K ohm, volatile models.  Has anyone used this glue chips
in a system with a microchip processor?  A web example would be
the tops.  Thanks in advance.

Paul Timmerman

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
use RemoveMElistservspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST




2000\11\07@040741 by Henrik Nielsen

flavicon
face
take a look here nice homepage  http://www.phanderson.com/PIC/
regards henrik
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul.J.Timmerman Digest" <spamBeGoneptimmerm@spam@spamspam_OUTMASHTUN.JPL.NASA.GOV>
To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 11:46 PM
Subject: [PIC]


{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu




2000\11\16@064145 by jcsa Laszlo AII III

flavicon
face
hi!
i have a problem
i made this program but it has a "bug"
when i simulate it with mplab it works still he arrive to sleep command
then with asynchronous stimulus i change the RB7 pin state
after that he jumps back to the movlw 0x88 instruction and INTCON reg.
became 0x09
what is wrong
thanks

here is a part of the code

;program for a beam-robot spider
;wait's for change on portb.7 pin then turns left or right
;1.1
         list p=16f84     ;microcontroller type
#include "p16f84.inc"      ;use this symbols
         org 0            ;start here
CTR equ 0x0e               ;define control register CTR
         bsf STATUS,5     ;bank1
         movlw 0x00       ;ra4:ra0 +
         movwf TRISA      ;outputs
         bcf OPTION_REG,7 ;set OPTION_REG(enable pull-up rezistors)
         movlw 0x88       ;set INTCON register +
         movwf INTCON     ;(enable interrupts and the rb7:rb4 interrupts)
         bcf STATUS,5     ;bank0
         bcf CTR,0        ;clear control bit
forward:  movlw 0x09       ;first +
         movwf PORTA      ;porta value
forward2: sleep            ;sleep and wait for change(to became high) on
portb.
wait:     bcf INTCON,0     ;after sleep clear the RBIF bit
nr0:      movlw 0x02       ;start aprox. .5s delay
         movwf 0x0d       ;for clock=4 MHz
.

.

.






                                              Kajcsa Laszlo

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email @spam@listservRemoveMEspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2000\11\16@070714 by Jeszs

flavicon
face


The interrupt on change jumps to program memory address number 4 (as you mention, movlw 0x88).
You should have an interrupt service routine:

org 0            ; goto main program
   goto Init

org 4            ; interrupt service
   ....            ; do whatever you want (I recommend only setting/clearing flags you can deal with later in the main program...)
   retfie

Init       bsf STATUS,5     ;bank1
           movlw 0x00       ;ra4:ra0 +
etc.

Regards,

--------------------
Jesús Gonzalo
León (SPAIN)
--------------------

----- Mensaje original -----
De: "Kajcsa Laszlo AII III" <EraseMElkajcsaspam@spam@ENGINEERING.UTTGM.RO>
Para: <@spam@PICLISTspam_OUTspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Enviado: jueves, 16 de noviembre de 2000 12:43
Asunto: [PIC]


{Quote hidden}

2000\11\16@093520 by Olin Lathrop

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

You enabled interrupts but have no interrupt service routine.  You don't
need to set GIE to wake up from sleep, only to enble the specific interrupt
condition.


*****************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, olinspamBeGonespamcognivis.com, http://www.cognivis.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistserv@spam@spamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body



'[PIC]'
2000\12\23@043405 by Harish G
picon face
I am working on the PIC16F877. I would like someone to
provide me with sites or related codes to drive a DC
motor with a PID algorithm with the above IC.
 The i/p is 0-5v error signal which is compared with
a ref and o/p signal computed using PID algorithm

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


2000\12\23@044239 by Harish G

picon face
--- Harish G <.....harish_g_2002@spam@spamEraseMEYAHOO.COM> wrote:
> I am working on the PIC16F877. I would like someone
> to
> provide me with sites or related codes to drive a DC
> motor with a PID algorithm with the above IC.
>   The i/p is 0-5v error signal which is compared
> with
> a ref and o/p signal computed using PID algorithm
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


2000\12\24@045308 by Harish G

picon face
--- Harish G <.....harish_g_2002RemoveMEspamYAHOO.COM> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2000\12\25@043310 by Harish G

picon face
> > I am working on the PIC16F877. I would like
> someone to provide me with sites or related codes to
drive a DC motor with a PID algorithm with the above
IC.
The i/p is 0-5v error signal which is compared with
a ref and o/p signal computed using PID algorithm
  A small module of the above problem will be
sufficient, I just want to get a hold on the syntax
involved in assembly language programming.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2000\12\30@055726 by Harish G

picon face
--- Harish G <.....harish_g_2002STOPspamspam@spam@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.



'[PIC]'
2001\07\23@094109 by Batchellor, Gary
flavicon
face
To the person working with rotary encoder on 16F84. I am currently in early
stages of a project which sounds close to yours. If you would please email
me directly I would like to discuss this with you off line from the list.
Thanks.

G. L. Batchellor
glbEraseMEspam@spam@pulseinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.



'[PIC]'
2001\12\02@104806 by Royce Simmons
picon face
Hi,

I lost all my notes that I saved from this list.  I hope someone can give me
the
URL for the company in Bulgaria that makes prototype PC boards
for PICs.

Thanks,  Royce

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu


2001\12\02@114941 by Don Krause

flavicon
face
Is this the one?

http://www.olimex.com/pcb

=Don=

On Sun, 2001-12-02 at 07:46, Royce Simmons wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
piclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu


2001\12\02@163113 by Royce Simmons

picon face
Yes,  Thats to one!

Thanks,  Royce

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Krause <spamBeGonedkrause@spam@spamUNIXPLANET.NET>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC]


> Is this the one?
>
> http://www.olimex.com/pcb
>
> =Don=
>
> On Sun, 2001-12-02 at 07:46, Royce Simmons wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I lost all my notes that I saved from this list.  I hope someone can
give me
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
piclist-unsubscribe-requestspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu



'[PIC]'
2002\09\28@150952 by Ake Hedman,
flavicon
face
Hi all,
Anyone have a clue about the price range for the Microchip CAN family uP's
( 18F248,248,448,258 etc) Especially 18F248. Are they in volume production?
Anyone tested one? Experience?

/Ake

---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
Eurosource, Brattbergavagen 17, 82050 LOS, Sweden
Phone: 46 657 413500 Celluar: 46 70 2314980
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Projects: http://eda.sourceforge.net http://mumin.sourceforge.net
http://activex.sourceforge.net http://can.sourceforge.net
Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestRemoveMEspamSTOPspammitvma.mit.edu



'[PIC]'
2002\11\08@215818 by techhead
flavicon
face
Thanks, for the advice.
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Hutchinson
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:41 PM
To: spamBeGonePICLISTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: DS1202


Hello techhead?,

You will probably get better responses if you use a subject topic tag.
Many of the list members, including many of the most
experienced/knowledgeable members, don't receive untagged posts. See
http://www.piclist.com for topic tag information details. Also including your
real name may help as some people won't respond to anonymous posts.

I'm not familiar with the DS1202 and I also don't know the programming
language you're using (looks like BASIC?) so, this may not help much.

There is no datasheet for it at the Dallas semi website (appears to be
an obsolete part) but, I did find the chip in a 1992 Dallas data book.

My first thought was that maybe you had a floating battery input
terminal which causes all sorts of strange behaviors in RTC chips but, I
see that this chip does not have a battery pin.

Reading over the data sheet I see that this chip uses BCD for all the
data. It looks like your code is treating the data as binary instead of
BCD? Your report of the count sequence almost matches a BCD vs. binary
count but not quite. bit pattern  BCD value  binary value
00010000      10         16
01011001      59         89

Another thing I noticed in the data sheet is that bit 7 (MSB) is the
clock halt flag and needs to be ignored when reading the time.

Finally, this chip is not Y2K compliant so, if you've set the year to
"02" it thinks the date is 1902 which could be exposing a bug in the
chip. Try setting the year to a value greater than 1990. I still get a
chuckle thinking about the first AT clone PC I used. One day it refused
to boot but everything tested OK with the  diagnostics disk. This
stumped me and the IT manager and he was ready to send it back to the
manufacturer. I kept looking around at settings and finally noticed that
somehow the year got changed to 1934, setting the date to the right year
of 1985 fixed the PC. I told the IT manager about it and said "In 1934
PC's didn't exist yet so I guess the BIOS sees the date and says
shutdown I can't exist yet" :-).

IMHO, you should probably trash the DS1202 and get a currently produced
version of a Dallas RTC chip. I saw a reference to using a DS1302 to
replace a DS1202 on the Dallas web site. Myself I like the DS1307, I2C
interface, Y2K compliant and, keeps time for years on a single lithium
coin cell.

Hope this helps,
Paul Hutch

{Quote hidden}

lout,N9600,[254,128,#rtcmonth,"/",#rtcdate,"/",#rtcyear]
>         Serout lout,N9600,[254,192,#rtchr,":",#rtcmin,":",#rtcsec]
>
>         Pause 300       ' Do it about 3 times a second
>
>         Goto mainloop   ' Do it forever
>
>         End
>
>

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads



'[PIC]'
2003\05\13@123830 by Alex
flavicon
face
Hi Pic-ers!

Is anybody here that works with HART protocole?
If yes please send me some links or some sample
code done with PIC.
Anyway thanks in advance!

Alex




--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


'[PIC]'
2003\07\09@034142 by Peter Moreton
flavicon
face
I'm attempting to get a Siemens (=Osram, Infineon) SCD55100A 10 digit
LED matrix display with serial data interface to work with a PIC18F452,
and having a bit of a struggle. I'm sure I'll get it working in the end,
but wonder, does anyone on the list have any experience of these
devices?. [fully commented C source code would be nice!  :-) ]

thanks

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email spam_OUTlistservspam_OUTspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


'[PIC]'
2003\10\10@110209 by Jim Monteith
flavicon
face
Hello,

I am doing some icsp on a 16f819.  I'm running into a problem when I try to
write data to the data eeprom.  It writes fine the first and second times
(the pic is reset between each write, and I am overwriting the previous
data), but after that it starts zeroing out the data.  Has anyone ever run
into this?  Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Jim

jimmspam_OUTspamservicemate.com


--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\10\10@111703 by

picon face
Jim Monteith wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I am doing some icsp on a 16f819.  I'm running into a problem when I try to
>write data to the data eeprom.  It writes fine the first and second times
>(the pic is reset between each write, and I am overwriting the previous
>data), but after that it starts zeroing out the data.  Has anyone ever run
>into this?  Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>
>Jim


Is the write done by the programmer or by code in the PIC ?

Jan-Erik.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\10\10@113740 by Jim Monteith

flavicon
face
the write is done by my programmer.

basically what I am doing is this.  I program code into the pic for a
product.  Then I program 4 numbers into data memory that the code uses to
run.  Then I test that the product is working correctly.  If not, I rewrite
different numbers to the same 4 data memory locations.  This process can
happen 3 or more times.  What I am experiencing is the data eeprom takes the
original numbers, and then the first rewrite, but after that it starts
writing junk.  I can't even figure out a pattern to the junk.

{Original Message removed}


'[PIC]'
2004\10\15@185347 by junos (nickname)
flavicon
face

_______________________________________________
http://www.piclist.com
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

2004\10\17@005947 by Andrew Warren

flavicon
face
junos (nickname) <RemoveMEpiclistKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu> wrote:

>

   You missed one, Peter.

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren - aiwspamBeGonespam.....cypress.com
===
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation


_______________________________________________
http://www.piclist.com
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist


'[PIC]'
2004\11\15@041624 by Simon Lavallin
flavicon
face
I have accidently code protected two 16F877's and dont know how to disable
code protection.
I am using Tony Nixons Micro Pro Programer And Rom Zap.
I thought of programing code into Rom Zap and hard wiring to the F877 to
disable code protection. Page 10 of Microchips Data Sheet DS30925B
explains how to disable code protection but I am Not experienced enough to
Write the code to enable the chip to enter a load Command and then the
configuration
commands.

I would appreciate any help and ideas .
       Thank You
                   Simon Lavallin
KILLspamslavallinspam.....dodo.com.au

____________________________________________

2004\11\15@043015 by hael Rigby-Jones

picon face


>-----Original Message-----
>From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu [RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesRemoveMEspamEraseMEmit.edu]
>On Behalf Of Simon Lavallin
>Sent: 15 November 2004 09:16
>To: KILLspampiclistspamspamBeGonemit.edu
>Subject: [PIC]
>
>
>I have accidently code protected two 16F877's and dont know
>how to disable
>code protection.
>I am using Tony Nixons Micro Pro Programer And Rom Zap.
>I thought of programing code into Rom Zap and hard wiring to
>the F877 to disable code protection. Page 10 of Microchips
>Data Sheet DS30925B explains how to disable code protection
>but I am Not experienced enough to Write the code to enable
>the chip to enter a load Command and then the
>configuration
>commands.

Executing a bulk erase should remove code protection (as well as everything
else in the PIC).  Does the programming software have an option to "erase
flash" or simmilar?

Regards

Mike

=======================================================================
This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The
information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by
law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must
not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any
person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have
received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use,
forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.
No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or
services.
=======================================================================
____________________________________________

2004\11\15@045416 by cdb

flavicon
Just reprogramming the chip (with code protection config turned off in
the programmer) will reset the fuses in a flash part.

Colin

--
cdb, cdbspamspambarnard.name on Monday,15 November,2004

I have always been a few Dendrites short of an Axon and believe me it
shows.

Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright
until they speak!



____________________________________________


'[PIC]'
2005\04\10@202014 by Mauricio Jancic
flavicon
face
Hi,
       Well, I'm looking into include TCP/IP connectivity to some of my
product and would love some suggestions since I'm fairly new at this.
       I cant buy here the RTL8019As, is it good? What should I take care
of?

       How much cost would an internet connection add in a product (aprox)
if making low qtys (<100)?

       Any recommendations will be very appreciated.
Regards,

Mauricio Jancic
Janso Desarrollos - Microchip Consultants Program Member
RemoveMEinfospamBeGonespamRemoveMEjanso.com.ar
http://www.janso.com.ar
(54) 11 - 4542 - 3519

2005\04\11@080013 by olin_piclist

face picon face
Mauricio Jancic wrote:
> How much cost would an internet connection add in a product (aprox)
> if making low qtys (<100)?

Essentially none.  At 100 units the engineering cost will vastly dominate
and the extra parts cost due to internet connectivity is irrelevant.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\04\11@083726 by Mauricio Jancic

flavicon
face
We are a small company. We do not manufacture 10K units just because we can
and because it's not "saleable" on our market.
Just as a lateral comment: It also makes VERY hard to manufacture a product
with a custom and "nice" enclosure, since a smelting matrix is, on most
cases, not affordable.

How ever, we need to provide our customer with what they need, because:
       - They will go out and pay the difference to get an imported version
of our product
       - So we can export if we see the possibility

Perhaps its hard to understand, Olin, I can see it. But we are actually
working on a market here that require a high end product, but in small qtys
and at a low price. That's actually the problem.

Regards,
Mauricio (Argentina)

{Original Message removed}

2005\04\11@085933 by olin_piclist

face picon face
Mauricio Jancic wrote:
> Perhaps its hard to understand, Olin, I can see it. But we are actually
> working on a market here that require a high end product, but in small
> qtys and at a low price. That's actually the problem.

The math is still the same though.  Let's say you add a ENC28J60, the
transformers, the few required glue parts, and maybe increase the PIC to
handle the extra code and cycles.  That might add $10 to the parts cost
compared to not having ethernet connectivity.  At 100 units that's a total
additional cost of $1000.

Now how much engineering time will it take to do the extra electronic
design, layout, and testing?  Then add the time to integrate the TCP/IP
stack into your application, rework the application to a cooperative task
model if necessary, and add the new application parts specific to network
communications.  Don't forget the extra testing time.  Networking bugs can
be particularly difficult to track down.  Now add the extra documentation
and customer support time.  Network capability provides lots of ways for
customers to mess things up.  Don't you think all this will add up to
substantially more than $1000?


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\04\11@090541 by alan smith

picon face
Lantronix.  $80 - $100 in small qty.  

--- Mauricio Jancic <KILLspaminfospamBeGonespamjanso.com.ar> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2005\04\11@095047 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>We are a small company. We do not manufacture 10K units just because
>we can and because it's not "saleable" on our market.

Olin wrote
>Mauricio Jancic wrote:
>> How much cost would an internet connection add in a product (aprox) if
>> making low qtys (<100)?
>
>Essentially none.  At 100 units the engineering cost will vastly dominate
>and the extra parts cost due to internet connectivity is irrelevant.

I don't think Olin is looking to put you down here. Perhaps your question
could have been worded a little differently, but Olin is essentially
correct, for the quantities you mention - the development cost is going to
be by far the largest cost element for that quantity of items.

2005\04\11@112824 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Apr 11, 2005, at 6:00 AM, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> At 100 units that's a total additional cost of $1000.
>
> Now how much engineering time will it take to do the extra electronic
> design, layout, and testing?  Then add the time to integrate the TCP/IP
> stack into your application, rework the application to a cooperative
> task
> model if necessary, and add the new application parts specific to
> network
> communications.

I though you were being even more pessimistic than that.  Even the
$10,000
that would be added by plunking down something like an XPORT on 100
boards
is pretty small compared to the engineering cost of designing a product
WITHOUT any internet support.  I mean, in the US, $10k is well less than
3 months worth of engineering time, which is not nearly enough to go
from
nothing to a shipping product...

OTOH, there are things might build 100 of that I wouldn't quite consider
a "product" at all that people still seem to make a living designing and
selling.  Joe Engineer working out of his garage on weekends might be
THRILLED to get $10k in income from something he designed.

BillW

2005\04\11@143348 by olin_piclist

face picon face
William Chops Westfield wrote:
> I though you were being even more pessimistic than that.  Even the
> $10,000
> that would be added by plunking down something like an XPORT on 100
> boards
> is pretty small compared to the engineering cost of designing a product
> WITHOUT any internet support.

I agree.  But I was talking about *incremental* cost of ethernet
connectivity to the product, which I thought is what the OP was asking
about.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\04\29@061326 by Dumitru Stama

flavicon
face

Hello everybody
I am new to this topic but i want to learn and i hope one of you can
"light" my way. I have a question in my head and i cannot find a
straight answer anywhere on google or microchip website.
Is it possible to make a very simple circuit to program EVERY 16F and
18F pics using ICSP ? If so, can you help me with directions on web
where i can find such info ?
Thank you in advance
dics

2005\04\29@062340 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
Dumitru Stama wrote :

> Is it possible to make a very simple circuit to program
> EVERY 16F and 18F pics using ICSP ?

No.

( B.t.w, what is "a very simple circuit" ??? )

Jan-Erik.



2005\04\29@070109 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> Is it possible to make a very simple circuit to program EVERY 16F
> and
> 18F pics using ICSP ?

No. Some processors do not support ISP.
For those that do the circuitry is usually very simple BUT the
programming algorithms vary between chips, and keeping up with them is
a major task. Part of paying for a well supported professional
programmer includes having THEM keep up with the algorithms.



       RM

2005\04\29@071551 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Is it possible to make a very simple circuit to program EVERY 16F and
> 18F pics using ICSP ? If so, can you help me with directions on web
> where i can find such info ?

That's possible, but the problems are the reliability and the
accompanying PC software. Check for instance http://www.ic-prog.com.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\04\29@122639 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Fri, 2005-04-29 at 23:01 +1200, Russell McMahon wrote:
> > Is it possible to make a very simple circuit to program EVERY 16F
> > and
> > 18F pics using ICSP ?
>
> No. Some processors do not support ISP.
> For those that do the circuitry is usually very simple BUT the
> programming algorithms vary between chips, and keeping up with them is
> a major task. Part of paying for a well supported professional
> programmer includes having THEM keep up with the algorithms.

I'm curious now, what 16F or 18F part DOESN'T support ISP?

TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

2005\04\29@175347 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Fri, Apr 29, 2005 at 02:11:36PM +0300, Dumitru Stama wrote:
>
> Ok, thank you for your answer. The problem is that around here a PIC
> programmer that works with almost all pics is about 200 usd
> (picstart+) and 200 is quite expensive.

The question is still on the table: Why do you need a programmer that
can program all pics?

The problem is that the programming algorithms keep changing. The basic
hardware is the same though. So if you get some basic hardware when you
can program most PICs and will have to either wait for updates for new parts
or if you are really in a hurry take the code of some programming software
and a programming specification for the new part and program it.

Generally programming specifications fall in the families. So if you have
something that handles all of the basic families (i.e. 16F single-word, 16F
multi-word, 18F) then usually adding new parts within those families isn't
too difficult.

But at the end of the day no programmer can tell the future. Even if you have
something that handles most of todays parts, Microchip can come out with a
part tomorrow that'll require an update.

BAJ

2005\04\29@180144 by Hopkins

flavicon
face
Check this site out for an ICD2 clone

http://stolz.de.be/


I built it and it works great as a programmer and works with the
MICROCHIP MPLAB interface.

I have not been able to make it work in debug mode but this is most
likely the way I have bread boarded the project.

Also check out http://www.olimex.com/dev/

Look under emulators/debuggers

The ICD2 may no cover every chip but its main advantage to me is it
directly interfaces with the MICROCHIP MPLAB and this will show you what
chips can be programmed when you look under CONFIGURE/SELECT DEVICE...

Also it has the advantage of having new chips added as Microchip updates
it's MPLAB program.

_______________________________________
Roy
Tauranga
New Zealand
_______________________________________



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 29/04/2005


2005\04\29@192834 by phil B

picon face
that is tempting to build.  however, the advantage of
the olimex clone is that it uses microchip firmware.
The price of the clone is high enough that I'd rather
wait until there is a sale on the microchip unit.

On the other hand, just using it as an MPLAB
compatible programmer may make it worthwhile.

--- Hopkins <@spam@rdhopkinsSTOPspamspam@spam@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> --


'[PIC]'
2005\05\18@005616 by GVH Unnau
flavicon
face
SET PICLIST MAIL


'[PIC]'
2005\06\27@164741 by Pban1
picon face

I am new to Pic programming, I want to write my first code  using MPLAB, but
I do not know where to start. Can you please tell me all  the steps to follow.

Thanks

2005\06\27@175000 by Robert Young

picon face
>  
> I am new to Pic programming, I want to write my first code  
> using MPLAB, but
> I do not know where to start. Can you please tell me all  the
> steps to follow.
>  
> Thanks

Heads up:
You are going to be ripped a new one in the coming days by other list
members.  Don't take it personally, try to read all their posts and keep
notes on the ideas and suggestions.

Also, if you see "RTFM" in one of these posts, it means "Read The
F--king Manual", take that as a gentle reminder.

:-)

That said, google for "PIC TUTORIAL" and start reading.

Read the datasheet for the PIC16F84 or PIC16F628 (I'd suggest the F628)
or if you already have a breadboard/experimenter's kit, read the data
sheet for the part on that kit's protoboard.  

Read it more than once.  Read it more than twice.  Read it morning, noon
and night.  It help, trust me.

Rob Young

2005\06\27@203541 by Maarten Hofman

face picon face
> Read the datasheet for the PIC16F84 or PIC16F628 (I'd suggest the F628)
> or if you already have a breadboard/experimenter's kit, read the data
> sheet for the part on that kit's protoboard.

I'd seriously recommend AGAINST the PIC16F84A. I started my PIC
adventure in May, and because of Myke Predko's book I started with the
PIC16F84A, but it became clear that was a bad choice in many different
ways. The PIC16F628A is indeed a much better choice (and I'm using it
at the moment with great success), though if I would start all over, I
would've chosen the PIC16F88. Of course, if you are not afraid of
40-pin components, you might want to go for the 16F877A, though I
haven't yet had any personal experience with that component (I did buy
one, though).

As for coding in MPLAB: use the helpfiles, get a piece of sample code,
try to get it to compile/assemble, and use the built in debugger to
see what it does. Myke Predko's book is actually quite useful to learn
PICmicros, although you need to be an intelligent reader and be aware
of the various obvious bugs in it.

Greetings,
Maarten Hofman.

P.S. I left out the 18F... series, but maybe others will mention those.

2005\06\27@210538 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
www.piclist.com/begin

---
James.



{Quote hidden}

> -

2005\06\27@220430 by olin piclist

face picon face
Maarten Hofman wrote:
> I'd seriously recommend AGAINST the PIC16F84A.

I agree.  The wide variety of PICs is so that there is a reasonably tight
fit to many possible applications.  Most PICs get sold in to high volume
applications where a few cents makes a difference.  For a hobbyist an extra
few $$ for a "full function" PIC per one-off project is irrelevant.  There
are only a few PICs that make sense for hobby purposes.

If you want to stick to the 16F family for access to existing code, the
16F876A is the best general purpose choice.  It comes in an easy to handle
28 pin DIP.  If you plan on doing your own thing and don't care about
example code on the web, I definitely recommend the 30F3013.  It is in the
new dsPIC line and also comes in a 28 pin DIP package.  The dsPICs are
definitely the most capable PICs.  It takes a little more to learn the
processor and instruction set up front, but once you get there they are more
friendly to program.

There are several other good hobbyist chips, but I only recommend them given
specific requirements of a project.  For example, there are 40 pin and quite
capable 18 and 8 pin parts that can be reasonable choices for hobby projects
depending on the circumstances.  But if you're asking for the best general
purpose hobby PIC without specific requirements, my first answer is the
30F3013.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\06\27@231804 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 08:35:40PM -0400, Maarten Hofman wrote:
> > Read the datasheet for the PIC16F84 or PIC16F628 (I'd suggest the F628)
> > or if you already have a breadboard/experimenter's kit, read the data
> > sheet for the part on that kit's protoboard.
>
> I'd seriously recommend AGAINST the PIC16F84A.

Here's why: The 16F84A has virtually no hardware periperal support. So
while it's easy to get started it gets more difficult as you attempt to
do real work.

> I started my PIC
> adventure in May, and because of Myke Predko's book I started with the
> PIC16F84A, but it became clear that was a bad choice in many different
> ways.

Care to list?

> The PIC16F628A is indeed a much better choice (and I'm using it
> at the moment with great success), though if I would start all over, I
> would've chosen the PIC16F88.

Agreed on both choices. The 16F88 has virtually every hardware component
packed into a single 18 pin part.

> Of course, if you are not afraid of
> 40-pin components, you might want to go for the 16F877A, though I
> haven't yet had any personal experience with that component (I did buy
> one, though).

You may even want to consider stepping up to 18F family too.

> As for coding in MPLAB: use the helpfiles, get a piece of sample code,
> try to get it to compile/assemble, and use the built in debugger to
> see what it does. Myke Predko's book is actually quite useful to learn
> PICmicros, although you need to be an intelligent reader and be aware
> of the various obvious bugs in it.

That must be frustrating for a newbie. I always recommend using the data
sheet and the Family reference manual for the particular part.

BAJ

2005\06\28@032819 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I'd seriously recommend AGAINST the PIC16F84A. I started my PIC
> adventure in May, and because of Myke Predko's book I started with the
> PIC16F84A, but it became clear that was a bad choice in many different
> ways.

Ah, a fresh starter. An agrument that is often stated *against* almost
any PIC except the 84's is that there are some any peripherals that a
newbie will be confused. Having been there just a short time ago, could
you comment on this? (no need to convince *me*, but your experience
might be usefull to convince other newbies to make the right choice).

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\06\28@034000 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Also, if you see "RTFM" in one of these posts, it means
>"Read The F--king Manual", take that as a gentle reminder.

Well, for the new ones on the block, I prefer it to be "Read The Fine
Manual".

2005\06\28@044016 by Chen Xiao Fan

face
flavicon
face
How about 12F675/12F683 and then 16F676/F688/
16F785/16F916 with PICkit 1?

You may laugh at my choice but you know that I like
PICkit 1. It is cheap. It is USB. It is supported by
Microchip with open source firmware and open source host
software (Windows and Mac OS X). It is also supported
in the Linux platform. 12F parts are very easy to
start (no need to worry about paging). 12F629/675
is also supported by the free PICC Lite on the
Windows and Linux platform.

16F785 is a very capable part. 16F916 is the LCD part.

After this you can directly jump to PIC18 and dsPIC
parts.

I will consider 16F628A a legacy part. Most of the new
PIC 16 part will be the 8/14/20pin and are compatible
each other in terms of programming pins. They are
cheap (standard flash, not supporting bootloader) too.

Get a PICkit 1 (often comes free 12F675 or 16F676 samples)
and follow Wouter's suggestion. Better yet they have
sample assembly and C source file to guide you. You
can blink the on-board LEDs.

Google for "Jeff Mallatt", he has an excellent collection
of samples in assembly to programming the PICkit 1
with 12F675 and 16F676. Sorry I forgot the direct links.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2005\06\28@070524 by John J. McDonough

flavicon
face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wouter van Ooijen" <TakeThisOuTwouterspamspamRemoveMEvoti.nl>
Subject: RE: [PIC]


{Quote hidden}

As I have been doing the Elmer 160 class, it has become more and more clear
to me that the 84 is the best choice for someone learning.  By learning, I
mean beginner.  An experienced assembler hack who has been through a half
dozen other processors should have no problem diving into whatever PIC.  But
without a fair bit of experience, virtually all the PICs are horribly
confusing.

The peripherals are one of several points of confusion.  For the newcomer to
microcontrollers, just the concept of twiddling a bit in memory to cause a
pin on the chip to change level isn't the easiest thing to grasp.  But on
PICs other than the 84, every pin has 3 or 4 uses, so you not only need to
do some special initialization to them, but every pin is treated
differently.

I'm a bit up in the air about the timer pin on the '84.  The counter/timer
is a useful feature, and having one pin that can have multiple uses does
provide an example to the newbie that leads to the other parts.  But that
pin hanging out there confuses people until they "get it".  Fortunately, it
defaults to being "like all the others", unlike some pins on most of the
other PICs.

Probably the worst is the banking.  Newcomers have a hard time with the
concept of setting a bit so that they can see TRISB.  Indeed, a *lot* of
hobbyists still use the TRIS instruction because they are so scared about
this banking stuff.  Imagine what happens when you select bank 1 to adjust
the TRISB register, and suddenly all your data disappears as it does on the
628.  Would a newcomer EVER figure out what happened?  No, he would simply
be convinced that the PIC was "too hard" for him and give up.

And don't try to pretend that a 700 page datasheet isn't intimidating!

Ceratinly, one needs to get weaned off the 84 quickly.  As we all know, it
is a low capability part, and Olin, it doesn't save a few cents.  A
PIC16F84A costs almost twice as much as the 628, which is more than twice as
capable.

There are two downsides to using the '84 as training wheels.  The first is
that it is hard to leave once you are hooked.  I think we all know this.
There are hundreds of different flavors of PIC so that we can choose the
memory size and peripheral complement that fits a particular project.  For
some reason, though, once they learn a part, a lot of people are loath to
try another part, instead jumping through all sorts of hoops to squeeze the
capability into an 84.  That fear of something new is a big deal.  They pay
extra money for more hassle, just to avoid stepping off into something new.

The second problem is the examples.  I used to think all the example
projects out there for the '84 were a good thing.  I now question that.
Most are pretty horrible examples.  They are all hard to understand, making
programming the PIC seem harder to the newcomer than it needs to be.  Many
of them do astonishingly stupid things.  Unfortunately, the alternative to
bad examples is no examples.  I'm not so sure which is worse.

On balance, though, unless OP is a fairly experienced assembler programmer,
the '84 is the part to learn on.  Once you've learned, leave it quickly.
Remember it's the tricycle ... you give up a lot of capability for the
security.

--McD

2005\06\28@082649 by olin piclist

face picon face
John J. McDonough wrote:
> As I have been doing the Elmer 160 class, it has become more and more
> clear to me that the 84 is the best choice for someone learning.  By
> learning, I mean beginner.  An experienced assembler hack who has been
> through a half dozen other processors should have no problem diving
> into whatever PIC.

I guess there is a difference between being new to PICs and new to
microcontrollers or the low levels of any processor.  I only heard the OP
say he was new to PICs.

My very first exposure to PICs was when I got handed a project by a customer
because the guy that was doing it was an idiot and was getting nowhere.  I'd
never heard of a PIC before.  This particular project was using the 16C77,
which was the top of the line at that time.  It's close to today's 16F877
with UV EEPROM instead of flash program memory and 8 bit instead of 10 bit
A/Ds.

Since I knew nothing, I sat down and read the data sheet and
MPASM/MPLIB/MPLINK manual before touching any hardware or writing a single
line of code.  Then I flipped thru the MPLAB manual while working with it at
the same time to get a pretty good feel for its capabilities.

I can not stress enough how important it is to RTFM up front.  Unfortunately
far too many newbies are too lazy and want instant gratification.  It
therefore ends up taking much longer to get to real applications in the not
so long run.  You also lack that all-important higher level view of the
whole capability set.  You can't design firmware effectively without at
least knowing roughly the capabilities of each module.  For example, you
might go thru a lot of trouble in the software or conclude something can't
be done that a CCP module can do quite nicely in hardware.

> But without a fair bit of experience, virtually all
> the PICs are horribly confusing.

We also have to realize that PICs and microcontrollers aren't for everyone.
PICs are simple processors with very little to be confused about.  In a lot
of ways, the 12 bit core reminds of the PDP-8, which was the first machine I
learned anything about low level computing on.  I had only written a few
simple Basic programs before that.  Our high school had just gotten this
PDP-8 thing that could be programmed in Basic using the teletypes, but I
knew that it was just a wrapper with the bare machine under there somewhere.
I took the manual home over a vacation and read it.  This was no primer to
low level machine programming in general, but dived right into the PDP-8
particulars, much like a PIC data sheet.

It was certainly a whole new world.  I remember at first wondering where all
the math functions so easily used in Basic came from.  Seeing a routine to
do a multiply was a real eye opener.  But just like a PIC data sheet, it was
all in there.  When we got back from vacation I started toggling in machine
code programs from the front panel.

The point is that if you really want to learn something, get the real
reference and dive in.  The Microchip manuals are well written.  If you
still think that this whole PIC thing is horribly confusing, then
microcontroller may not be for you.

> The peripherals are one of several points of confusion.  For the
> newcomer to microcontrollers, just the concept of twiddling a bit in
> memory to cause a pin on the chip to change level isn't the easiest
> thing to grasp.

> Probably the worst is the banking.  Newcomers have a hard time with the
> concept of setting a bit so that they can see TRISB.

You should speak for yourself and not newcomers in general.  These are basic
low level computing concepts that are easily learned by many.

Again, we should separate learning microcontrollers from learning PICs.
Maybe learning microcontrollers should be done with a 10F204.  It's very
simple, has no banking and paging issues, and is about as low level as it
gets.  All the concepts of direct interaction between the firmware and
hardware can be learned there.  Once that is out of the way, someone should
have the background to make sense of any PIC or other microcontroller.  The
10F204 has the advantage that it clearly doesn't have the capabilities for
most projects, so there isn't the issue of clinging to it to stay with
something familiar.

> Indeed, a *lot* of
> hobbyists still use the TRIS instruction because they are so scared
> about this banking stuff.

Again, speak for yourself.  First, how do you know a lot of hobbyists do
this?  Second, even if they do how do you know it's because they're scared
of banking.  If the first is really true, then my guess is they're more
likely just too lazy to learn to do it right.  It would require (shudder)
actually reading the manual.

I think the impression of dumb hobbyists is skewed by the web.  You don't
hear as much from those that read the manual, blink the LED, and move on to
real projects.  The ones that think blinking the LED is a life achievment
are writing the web pages about it.  This means a disproportionately large
fraction of the really simple "I did my own PIC project" web pages are
written by those struggling with the basic concepts.

> Imagine what happens when you select bank 1
> to adjust the TRISB register, and suddenly all your data disappears as
> it does on the 628.  Would a newcomer EVER figure out what happened? No,
> he would simply be convinced that the PIC was "too hard" for him
> and give up.

Maybe a very small fraction of newcomers, and frankly they're probably
better off giving up.  We've all be newcomers to PICs and banking at some
time.  We've all probably had this error at least once and got thru it.
It's not different than chasing any other bug.  It may take a few extra
minutes with the simulator the first time, but after that you'll probably
recognize the symptoms quickly.

Personally I decided that manually setting banks was a really bad idea from
the first read of the manuals.  I wrote something like my DBANKIF macro very
early on, although I tweaked it often in the first month, and it has evolved
a lot to become what it is now as I got more experience with it.

> And don't try to pretend that a 700 page datasheet isn't intimidating!

I just grabbed the 18Fxx2 data sheet, which is the thickest I have lying
around, and its only 330 pages.  Frankly if you're not willing to read a 1/2
inch thick manual when getting into something totally new, you don't belong
in computing or most anything technical for that matter.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\06\28@092933 by John J. McDonough

flavicon
face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Olin Lathrop" <KILLspamolin_piclistspamspamspam_OUTembedinc.com>
Subject: Re: [PIC]


> I guess there is a difference between being new to PICs and new to
> microcontrollers or the low levels of any processor.  I only heard the OP

This is true.  I lept to the conclusion that he wasn't familiar with other
microcontrollers.  Not many people are.

> I can not stress enough how important it is to RTFM up front.

There is a lot to be said for this.  Unfortunately, most of the Mchip
documentation is poorly written and makes a lot of assumptions about what
you already know.  The assumptions aren't bad ... not every document should
be a tutorial.  But without a good background in low level controllers, the
datasheets aren't a lot of help.  The x14 series of tutorials are good, but
they are well-hidden and insufficient.  There really isn't any good tutorial
material.

>  Unfortunately
> far too many newbies are too lazy and want instant gratification.

I think there is a little truth to that, but I also see a huge lack of
self-confidence.

> We also have to realize that PICs and microcontrollers aren't for
> everyone.

No question.  But there are a lot of folks whose projects could really
benefit.  Most are plenty capable of understanding PICs.  But jumping in at
the deep end isn't the way to do it.  The key is building their confidence
in a simple environment first, so that they feel comfortable with the
datasheets.

> PICs are simple processors with very little to be confused about.  In a
> lot
> of ways, the 12 bit core reminds of the PDP-8, which was the first machine
> I
> learned anything about low level computing on.

When you have grown up with some of the older processors, there is a lot of
familiar stuff.  But when you haven't, even simple concepts are fairly alien
and take some getting used to.  And it is hard for someone who hasn't been
there.  The more capable processors require biting off more in one gulp.
This is a real barrier.

> You should speak for yourself and not newcomers in general.  These are
> basic
> low level computing concepts that are easily learned by many.

Wasn't a problem for me.  I had worked with a half-dozen banked processors
before discovering the PIC.  But I've been trying to teach a number of
newcomers and I see what they are tripping over.

{Quote hidden}

This is a pretty new part, but you have a very good point.  A simple
processor that you wouldn't be tempted to stick with would be a good thing.
If I get really bored someday maybe I'll do an Elmerxxx on a 10F.  But if I
ever finish up Elmer160, my next one will be somewhat more
processor-agnostic.

> Again, speak for yourself.  First, how do you know a lot of hobbyists do
> this?  Second, even if they do how do you know it's because they're scared
> of banking.  If the first is really true, then my guess is they're more
> likely just too lazy to learn to do it right.  It would require (shudder)
> actually reading the manual.

Take a look at the hobbyist examples out there.  There are hundreds of them.
Very few are effective at using banking.  Lots of them still use TRIS.  Talk
to them, and you discover they are just plain uncomfortable with the concept
of banking.  Lots of them lust after the "huge" memory of a 628 but are just
plain afraid of it.

There is plenty of myth and misconception out there.  Lots of apps harcode
the addresses for the registers.  Turns out that many folks think that
including p16f84a.inc will cost a lot of their precious memory. (!)  For
most hobbyists, the PIC is their first foray into assembler of any kind.

> I think the impression of dumb hobbyists is skewed by the web.  You don't
> hear as much from those that read the manual, blink the LED, and move on
> to
> real projects.  The ones that think blinking the LED is a life achievment
> are writing the web pages about it.  This means a disproportionately large
> fraction of the really simple "I did my own PIC project" web pages are
> written by those struggling with the basic concepts.

There is some truth to this, but I have had the opportunity to speak with a
lot of hobbyists at conferences lately (yes, hobby types get together, too),
and there are a LOT of people who want to do something, are plenty smart
enough, but are afraid.  It's not dumb, it's lack of self-confidence.

> Maybe a very small fraction of newcomers, and frankly they're probably
> better off giving up.  We've all be newcomers to PICs and banking at some
> time.  We've all probably had this error at least once and got thru it.
> It's not different than chasing any other bug.  It may take a few extra
> minutes with the simulator the first time, but after that you'll probably
> recognize the symptoms quickly.

I have a nearby colleague, a PhD actually, who is one of the most creative
electronic designers I've ever run across.  He is also an amazing
programmer, from the perspective of being able to design the most simple,
elegant algorithms.  He has been working with PICs for over 5 years now, and
is still uncomfortable with banking.  All his projects have been with the
84.  I finally convinced him to go out and invest in a 628, wow - a whole
three bucks.  He still hasn't taken the jump into actually doing something
with it.  The banking has him scared off.  I tend to view that to some
extent as a failure of my teaching, but it is not an uncommon reaction.

> Personally I decided that manually setting banks was a really bad idea
> from
> the first read of the manuals.  I wrote something like my DBANKIF macro

I agree, I have a similar macro.

> I just grabbed the 18Fxx2 data sheet, which is the thickest I have lying
> around, and its only 330 pages.  Frankly if you're not willing to read a
> 1/2
> inch thick manual when getting into something totally new, you don't
> belong
> in computing or most anything technical for that matter.

I was thinking the F88 manual was 688 pages, but that was the midrange ref I
was thinking of.

There are other barriers, of course.  A *LOT* of hobbyists started with
Covington's "No Parts PIC Programmer".  Covington's software only supported
the F84 and a few C parts.  It takes some digging to discover that other
software supports that programmer and more processors, but there is no
reason to go do that digging.  And almost all of the hobbyist projects on
the web and in print are for the F84, so someone trying another PIC feels
like he is breaking new ground.  Not very many people have the confidence to
do that if the "experts" (those writing for the hobbyist magazines) are all
sticking to the 84.

It's not about being too dumb or too lazy.  It's about finding a path to
build the confidence.

--McD

2005\06\28@095415 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face

> I was thinking the F88 manual was 688 pages,...

And the F688 is 174
pages...

Sorry... :-)

Jan-Erik.



2005\06\28@095454 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 07:05:19AM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote:

John,

This is a balanced, well thought out piece. I'll pull foward the most
relavent point:

> There are two downsides to using the '84 as training wheels.  The first
> is that it is hard to leave once you are hooked.  I think we all know
> this.

One of my colleagues calls it the "Love what you learn" syndrome. And it's
important here. Because when you over simplify the process early on, you'll
have a tougher time presenting the "right" way to do it later on.


> {Original Message removed}

2005\06\28@102859 by Paul James E.

picon face

All,

I'd like to interject my opinion here.  If you agree with me, great.
If you don't. that's okay too.  As I said, it's just my opinion.

I have worked with a good number of PICs that Microchip offers.
And I have used pretty much the gamet of peripherals used by the different
variety of PIC's.  At first, they may seem intimidating, but you can get
familiar with them in short order.  

Regarding the idea that "All those peripherals would just confuse the
newby" I think is a crock.   Give the newby's some credit.  After all,
they have enough drive and curiosity to get started with microcontrollers
in the first place.   In the second place, they apparently have some form
of electronics knowledge.   And in the third place, the experience they
need will come from digging in and getting their hands dirty with the
PIC's.  
So from my point of view, if you are going to use a PIC in the future
for an application that has, or needs to have, some sort of peripheral,
you're going to have to learn them at some point in time.   And there's
no time like the present.  Just jump in with both feet, experiment, code,
and get really familiar with the parts and their peripherals.   When you
get them to work, you'll be able to help someone else out and show them
what you did and how you got it to work.   If you have trouble along the
way, call on the PICLIST for help.   That's what it's here for.  

And the entire population of the PICLIST is at your disposal to help you
through the rough spots.   Just don't be mistaken that the population of
the PICLIST will do all of your work for you.   You have to put forth an
effort.  But if you give it the old college try, get help when you need
it, and be vigilant, you'll come away with an education and practical
experience that will remain with you the rest of your life, and will be
invaluable in your microcontroller work.  

And just as an FYI,  if you look back over the subjects talked about on
this list for any time period you'd want to choose, you'll notice that
the subjects cover virtually everything you could imagine, and probably
some you wouldn't imagine.   You have everyone from a total newby, to
people who have worked with microcontrollers and microprocessors their
entire career.

The point I'm trying to make here is this.  The population of the PICLIST
probably boils down to several hundred years of combined experience.
If you put forth the initial effort, sincerely try to learn what you're
doing, and apply that newfound knowledge to your particular application,
and consult with the PICLIST when you have problems, you can learn and use
all the peripherals that microchip has to offer.  

With all that said, I truly believe it matters not which PIC you choose
to start with.  I personally started with the 16C5x parts because when I
started, they were the only PIC's offered.  I then went to the 16C84
because I didn't need a UV eraser, and I built a programmer that plugged
into the parallel port on my computer.

After that, I used whatever the application required.  If I were to start
today, I probably start with the 16F877 or maybe an 18 series part.
But I certainly wouldn't limit myself to the f84 or some such just to keep
my "Confusion" level down.  I would go for the gusto.


The bottom line for me would be start with whatever part you want,
regardless of the peripheral set available.  Providing you have a
way to program the part you choose to use.  Jump in and work with it
in a serious way, learning everything you can.   When you have problems
(and you will.  Even the pros have problems on ocassion), call on the
PICLIST to get a new perspective and /or a new direction, then continue
your pursuit.  And you'll soon be on your way to PIC expert.  And one day
you'll be cruising the PICLIST, and there'll be a post by someone with a
problem that you've had before, and you'll be able to respond to them with
the answer they need to continue their pursuit.

And one final point that I believe is important.  Read the datasheets and
app notes from Microchip as well as from other manufacturers.  They will
provide insight and sometimes clear up how some routine might get coded to
perform a calculation or function you need.   In short, the information
in them is invaluable.

Well, I've probably taken more than my share of time.  So, I'll back off
and let someone else have the floor.

Thanks for listening, and don't underestimate the newby.  I don't think
they'll be as confused as some may think.

                                                     Regards,

                                                       Jim







{Quote hidden}

> --

2005\06\28@103054 by Steven W

flavicon
face
> "It's not about being too dumb
> or too lazy.  It's about finding a path to
> build the confidence.
>
> --McD"

Well said!

And I like my PICKit 1 - the samples aren't the best (IMHO) and they make
some confusing assumptions about what you know, but once you get the hang of
it it's pretty fun - honestly though, I now wish those silly LEDs, button,
and Pot _weren't_ on the board, and rather the connector on the side was
hooked up to the pins on the PIC's socket in such a way that you could leave
an external circuit hooked up and still successfully re-program the device
(does that make any sense?). (Because now I have to disconnect everything
from it every time I want to reprogram the chip, or I have to not use the
connectors at all and keep moving the PIC around by hand (obviously not the
best idea in the world and very inconvenient). But overall it was cheap,
came with everything I needed to start, and can be instantly plugged into
your USB port out of the box for a light-show.

-Steve

2005\06\28@103327 by Maarten Hofman

face picon face
Rochester, 28 juni 2005.

Wow... Only doing PICmicros since May, and already I get a direct
question from Byron A. Jeff himself... *shivers*. But I do like lists.

> > I started my PIC
> > adventure in May, and because of Myke Predko's book I started with the
> > PIC16F84A, but it became clear that was a bad choice in many different
> > ways.
>
> Care to list?

In order of importance:
1) The PIC16F84A doesn't have an internal oscillator. This makes the
electronics and especially the prototype more complicated, and eats
two of your precious pins. Worse: if you later decide to upgrade your
circuit with the PIC16F628A, you STILL can't use those pins, because
the resonator is connected to them.
2) I'm pretty sure some people would like their PIC to speak to their
PC in some way, if just to send a few words of configuration to it.
Granted, you can connect a RS-232 to a PIC16F84A with a mere 10KOhm
resistor (though I recommend adding those two diodes as well, just in
case). However, what you save in hardware, you suffer in software...
Waiting for start bits, timing the distance right, and certainly
reducing the speed of your application. With the PIC16F628A you need
three instructions (as well as a little setup, and an additional
transistor and resistor, to invert the incoming signal) and all works
as it should. Note that the entire code to get the PIC16F628A to work
with RS-232 is listed in its datasheet, so it's not like you have to
figure things out yourself.
3) The PIC16F84A has only 1 KWord of program memory. Now usually I
would say that is a lot, but my first application already ate over 800
of those words. The PIC16F628A has 2 KWords, which is much better (and
still has no paging issues).
4) The PIC16F84A costs $4.87, and the PIC16F628A costs $2.24. Now this
might not seem like much, but it goes against my Dutch nature to pay
more for less.
5) Granted, I used only 36 of the 68 registers in my first
application, but that was because I knew there were only 68 of them.
Had I had the 224 registers that the PIC16F628A provides, it would
have made for a much nicer result.
6) My second application used 100 bytes of internal EEPROM memory (and
the PIC16F84A has only 64 of them)... You might say: yes, but that was
your second application. But note that the timeframe between the two
applications was less than a month.

I'm sure others might have other reasons, but this was the reason why
I was very disappointed in my choice for the 16F84A.

> Agreed on both choices. The 16F88 has virtually every hardware component
> packed into a single 18 pin part.

Not only that, but the PIC16F88 allows you to change its own program
memory. I'm still waiting for that part to arrive, but I see huge
possibilities for that feature.

> You may even want to consider stepping up to 18F family too.

You're probably right. I''m also curious about the PIC16F688... But
that is the opposite direction (less pins).

> That must be frustrating for a newbie. I always recommend using the data
> sheet and the Family reference manual for the particular part.

Yes, the datasheets work well. I especially like their example code.
As for problems newbies might encounter with the 16F628A compared to
the 16F84A: I think these issues are very minor (and need to be
learned anyway) and are insignificant compared to working around the
limitations of the 16F84A. There are enough samples for the 16F628A
out there that show how to initialise the ports to enable or disable
peripherals, and the datasheet isn't that big either (one session in a
bathtub should get you through it).

Greetings,
Maarten Hofman.

2005\06\28@110410 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>1) The PIC16F84A doesn't have an internal oscillator. This
>makes the electronics and especially the prototype more
>complicated, and eats two of your precious pins. Worse: if
>you later decide to upgrade your circuit with the PIC16F628A,
>you STILL can't use those pins, because the resonator is
>connected to them.

However bear in mind that if using serial comms, you are wise to use some
form of resonator or crystal to control the frequency rather than rely on
the internal oscillator that does have a reasonably wide tolerance.

2005\06\28@111316 by olin piclist

face picon face
Byron A Jeff wrote:
> I'm in the process of developing a computer systems lab using PICs. I
> haven't settled on a chip yet, but it will be one with top end
> capability for the reasons that you have outlined.

What are you going to use for a hardware platform to put the PIC on?  I'm
developing a series of PIC prototyping boards that I think would be great
PIC learning platforms.  The first production batch is in process now.  If
things work out as I expect, then I'll probably be selling singles for
around $40 and 5 at a time for $35 each.  I'd be interested in working out a
"whole class" educational volume discount, probably somewhere in the $20s.

I don't know what textbooks cost nowadays, but they were in the $10 to $20
range in the late 1970s, so I can only imagine that under $30 is less than
most textbooks today.

The first PIC prototyping board is aimed at the "standard" 28 pin DIP
pinout, like the 16F877A or 18F2520.  From your description, it sounds like
you are probably aiming at one of these chips anyway.

The board comes with wall wart, built in power supply, diagnostic LEDs for 8
signals with separate LEDs for high and low level, RS-232 interface, and a
large prototyping area with vertical strips of 5 pads and horizontal
power/ground busses and a ground plane.  There are jumpers to all the built
in extras, so the PIC can be disconnected and treated like a bare chip as
desired.  There are also pads for optional features that don't come
pre-populated, like a spike clamp for use with automotive 12V power, two
types of crystal/resonator footprints, and timer 1 oscillator.

Please let me know if you'd like to persue this.  I think that thru my
volume I can make things available to your students that would be difficult
or expensive for them (or you) to do individually.  I know you are quite
capable of designing and building something like this yourself, but I've
already done it and can probably produce it cheaper.  I think you would also
rather spend your time developing educational content than dealing with all
the hassles of getting a batch of anything produced in volume.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\06\28@114436 by Paul James E.

picon face

Olin,

Just a slip on your part I'm sure, but in paragraph 4 below, you state
that you're using the "Standard 28 pin DIP format" like the 16F877A or
the 18F2520.  The 16F877A is a 40 pin device.   Just an FYI.

                                          Regards,

                                            Jim



{Quote hidden}

> --

2005\06\28@115852 by olin piclist

face picon face
Paul James E. wrote:
> Just a slip on your part I'm sure, but in paragraph 4 below, you state
> that you're using the "Standard 28 pin DIP format" like the 16F877A or
> the 18F2520.  The 16F877A is a 40 pin device.

Oops, I meant to say 16F876A.  Sorry.

There are quite a few PICs that have that same 28 pin footprint.

*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\06\28@122307 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:33:26AM -0400, Maarten Hofman wrote:
> Rochester, 28 juni 2005.
>
> Wow... Only doing PICmicros since May, and already I get a direct
> question from Byron A. Jeff himself... *shivers*. But I do like lists.

You talk about it like it's a big thing. I was just curious.

{Quote hidden}

That's one on my list. I wouldn't recommend a part to a newbie that didn't
have the internal oscillator block incorporated.

{Quote hidden}

BINGO!!! A bit of setup complexity alleviates a lot of management as your
applications become more complicated. Hardware periperals give a huge
abstraction to the stuff they manage. It's set and forget.

For the USART in particular Fr. McGahee's PICUART tutorial is outstanding
for both learnint about all of the USARTs nuances and for having a drop
in piece of code to run it.

> 3) The PIC16F84A has only 1 KWord of program memory. Now usually I
> would say that is a lot, but my first application already ate over 800
> of those words. The PIC16F628A has 2 KWords, which is much better (and
> still has no paging issues).

The 16F648 and the 16F88 are even better with 4K apiece. But paging
does finally rear its ugly head across the 2K boundary.


> 4) The PIC16F84A costs $4.87, and the PIC16F628A costs $2.24. Now this
> might not seem like much, but it goes against my Dutch nature to pay
> more for less.

Agreed.

> 5) Granted, I used only 36 of the 68 registers in my first
> application, but that was because I knew there were only 68 of them.
> Had I had the 224 registers that the PIC16F628A provides, it would
> have made for a much nicer result.
> 6) My second application used 100 bytes of internal EEPROM memory (and
> the PIC16F84A has only 64 of them)... You might say: yes, but that was
> your second application. But note that the timeframe between the two
> applications was less than a month.

Right. That's another point I always make. Many tutorials approach the
newbie as if they were going to stay newbies forever. It's OK to start
there. But a tutorial should plan on giving the newbie the skillset to
function as a intermediate developer. That means introducing concepts
that while in the beginning may seem out of place should still be
presented. Olin pounds a perfect example of that in terms of using
relocatable code. It requires some setup in the beginning, but it should
be taught from the beginning.

> I'm sure others might have other reasons, but this was the reason why
> I was very disappointed in my choice for the 16F84A.
>
> > Agreed on both choices. The 16F88 has virtually every hardware component
> > packed into a single 18 pin part.
>
> Not only that, but the PIC16F88 allows you to change its own program
> memory. I'm still waiting for that part to arrive, but I see huge
> possibilities for that feature.

Bootloaders are a mainstay of my PIC development. If you are willing to
either give up or share the hardware USART then you can use the sparcfun
bloader. Only takes 255 bytes of code.

I plan on starting with Tato's ploader which you can find here:

http://propic2.com/ploader

It has the advantage of using a software USART as it was developed for the
16F819 which doesn't have a hardware USART. However, I find the protocol
a bit lacking. The key is that it's working code. So it should be too hard
to get ported.

> > You may even want to consider stepping up to 18F family too.
>
> You're probably right. I''m also curious about the PIC16F688... But
> that is the opposite direction (less pins).
>
> > That must be frustrating for a newbie. I always recommend using the data
> > sheet and the Family reference manual for the particular part.
>
> Yes, the datasheets work well. I especially like their example code.

The family reference manual has even more code. It's the reason I suggest
to newbies to learn assembly even if they plan to use a highlevel language.

> As for problems newbies might encounter with the 16F628A compared to
> the 16F84A: I think these issues are very minor (and need to be
> learned anyway) and are insignificant compared to working around the
> limitations of the 16F84A. There are enough samples for the 16F628A
> out there that show how to initialise the ports to enable or disable
> peripherals, and the datasheet isn't that big either (one session in a
> bathtub should get you through it).

I used this dontronics page for 16F84 to 16F628 conversion.

http://www.dontronics.com/cat_hard_micro_pic.html#628spec

BAJ

2005\06\28@122810 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 11:13:39AM -0400, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Byron A Jeff wrote:
> >I'm in the process of developing a computer systems lab using PICs. I
> >haven't settled on a chip yet, but it will be one with top end
> >capability for the reasons that you have outlined.
>
> What are you going to use for a hardware platform to put the PIC on?  

I haven't gotten that far into the process yet.

>I'm
> developing a series of PIC prototyping boards that I think would be great
> PIC learning platforms.  The first production batch is in process now.  If
> things work out as I expect, then I'll probably be selling singles for
> around $40 and 5 at a time for $35 each.  I'd be interested in working
> out a
> "whole class" educational volume discount, probably somewhere in the $20s.

I've been watching. It may be something to consider.

>
> I don't know what textbooks cost nowadays, but they were in the $10 to $20
> range in the late 1970s, so I can only imagine that under $30 is less than
> most textbooks today.

Cough! Cough! Are you kidding! Textbooks start in the $70 range per book
today!

> The first PIC prototyping board is aimed at the "standard" 28 pin DIP
> pinout, like the 16F877A or 18F2520.  From your description, it sounds
> like
> you are probably aiming at one of these chips anyway.

Actually I've been listening to you. I'm probably going to take the
30F3013 DSPic for a spin first.

I'll keep your suggestion in my hip pocket. This class will probably roll out
next fall. So I have some time to consider the options.

Thanks for the offer.

BAJ

2005\06\28@124235 by Peter Onion

flavicon
face
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 12:23 -0400, Byron A Jeff wrote:

> You talk about it like it's a big thing. I was just curious.

While it may seem strange, I think there are some "PICLIST celebrities".
Getting a direct question from them, or a reply from them, or some "off
list" emails from them would be a special event for a newbie ;)

Peter

2005\06\28@125814 by olin piclist

face picon face
Byron A Jeff wrote:
> I'll keep your suggestion in my hip pocket. This class will probably
> roll out next fall. So I have some time to consider the options.

Not really.  Classes start in only 2 1/2 months.  There is a lot of lead
time built into various steps when getting something produced in volume, at
least if you want to do it economically.

For example, I sent the first prototype boards out to be fabricated for the
PIC development board on 23 May.  The production version went out on 22
June.  Some parts have long lead times in China.  The manufacturer can't get
all parts right away.  The plan is to ship me a small number of units right
before Masters which is only 3 weeks away now.  I may have to manually add
one part to those units myself.  It looks like the bulk of the units won't
be available until late August or early September, in other words just in
time for class to start.

And that is with a design that has been in progress for a few months
(although my end would be faster if it didn't have to fit around full time
customer work).  In other words, it's already too late to make changes to
something you need produced in volume for delivery in early September.

> Actually I've been listening to you.

No kidding, so you're the one ;-)

> I'm probably going to take the 30F3013 DSPic for a spin first.

I'm planning on that being the target of the next PIC prototyping board.
Realistically that won't be available for the fall term, but probably the
spring term (assuming January start).


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\06\28@165027 by Byron A Jeff
face picon face
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 12:58:41PM -0400, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Byron A Jeff wrote:
> >I'll keep your suggestion in my hip pocket. This class will probably
> >roll out next fall. So I have some time to consider the options.
>
> Not really.  Classes start in only 2 1/2 months.  There is a lot of lead
> time built into various steps when getting something produced in volume,
> at
> least if you want to do it economically.

As soon as I reread my message I realized that I made a mistake. I'm
talking about Fall 2006.

[Snippage]

> >I'm probably going to take the 30F3013 DSPic for a spin first.
>
> I'm planning on that being the target of the next PIC prototyping board.
> Realistically that won't be available for the fall term, but probably the
> spring term (assuming January start).

That would be my target then.

BAJ


'[PIC]'
2005\07\05@111517 by John Nall
picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote, several days ago:

> > If you plan on doing your own thing and don't care about
> example code on the web, I definitely recommend the 30F3013.  It is in
> the
> new dsPIC line and also comes in a 28 pin DIP package.  The dsPICs are
> definitely the most capable PICs.  It takes a little more to learn the
> processor and instruction set up front, but once you get there they
> are more
> friendly to program.


Olin wrote that several days ago, and I have been hoping to see some
more comments on it.  Have not seen any, however, so guess I may as well
ask for some.  When I quit pic'ing a couple of years ago for another
project, I was engrossed in the 18F452, which I picked (no pun intended)
because Wouter recommended it.  But now that I have started again, since
I have to pretty much re-learn all over again anyway, I may as well
learn a new chip.  Do most people agree that the 30F3013 would be the
best one to go with?  I don't have any specific applications in mind --
I like to just experiment with the chip rather than use it for a
specific application, just as I like to learn new programming languages
for the fun of it, rather than write a program for a specific purpose.

John

2005\07\05@131933 by John J. McDonough

flavicon
face
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Nall" <jwnallRemoveMEspamgmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PIC]


> I have to pretty much re-learn all over again anyway, I may as well learn
> a new chip.  Do most people agree that the 30F3013 would be the best one
> to go with?  I don't have any specific applications in mind --

There are some quirky things about the PIC30, maybe even quirkier than the
PIC16.  But you gotta love 120MHz clock, hardware multiply, large flat
address space, etc. etc.

Downsides ... there are few programmers for it, and even Microchip's don't
seem to have all the bugs out yet.  The 120 MHz clock affords the
opportunity to consume prodigious power, something pretty alien to the
nanoWatt crowd.  Although there are a few DIP parts, most of the models are
only available in difficult (for a hobbyist) packages.

But there certainly seems to be a lot of play value there <g>

--McD

2005\07\05@141148 by olin piclist

face picon face
John J. McDonough wrote:
> There are some quirky things about the PIC30, maybe even quirkier than
> the PIC16.

Like what?  My general feeling is the opposite.

> Downsides ... there are few programmers for it, and even Microchip's
> don't seem to have all the bugs out yet.

You're going to need an ICD2 for dsPIC development anyway.  For hobby use,
it works as a programmer too.  For professional production use, my ProProg
supports the dsPICs.

> The 120 MHz clock affords the
> opportunity to consume prodigious power, something pretty alien to the
> nanoWatt crowd.

A full speed dsPIC can burn up a bit under a watt.  In many cases that won't
be a big deal.  Of course you can always run the clock slower and it will
consume less power.  It's a fully static CMOS design like all PICs.

> Although there are a few DIP parts, most of the models
> are only available in difficult (for a hobbyist) packages.

Many are, but that's one reason I recommended the 30F3013.  It is available
in hobbyist friendly 28 pin DIP, just like the 16F876 and 18F252.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\07\05@143936 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Tue, 2005-07-05 at 14:12 -0400, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> John J. McDonough wrote:
> > There are some quirky things about the PIC30, maybe even quirkier than
> > the PIC16.
>
> Like what?  My general feeling is the opposite.

Agreed, I'm intrigued to hear what quirks the op is speaking of.
Personally I've found the dsPIC to be a wonderful balance of what makes
the PIC architecture "good", and what makes other more conventional
architectures "good".

> > Downsides ... there are few programmers for it, and even Microchip's
> > don't seem to have all the bugs out yet.
>
> You're going to need an ICD2 for dsPIC development anyway.  For hobby use,
> it works as a programmer too.  For professional production use, my ProProg
> supports the dsPICs.

For development an ICD2 is VERY important IMHO with the dsPIC. The sheer
power of those chips makes ICD so much friendlier to your sanity!

> > The 120 MHz clock affords the
> > opportunity to consume prodigious power, something pretty alien to the
> > nanoWatt crowd.
>
> A full speed dsPIC can burn up a bit under a watt.  In many cases that won't
> be a big deal.  Of course you can always run the clock slower and it will
> consume less power.  It's a fully static CMOS design like all PICs.

Hehe, I guess it's just a matter of people forgetting how much
computational power a dsPIC has compared to the "normal" hobbyist PICs.

> > Although there are a few DIP parts, most of the models
> > are only available in difficult (for a hobbyist) packages.
>
> Many are, but that's one reason I recommended the 30F3013.  It is available
> in hobbyist friendly 28 pin DIP, just like the 16F876 and 18F252.

DIP isn't much of an issue to worry about with the dsPIC unless you want
something with more the 40 pins, and that's always been the case with
PICs (has there every been a PIC available in DIP package with more then
40 pins). All dsPIC models 4xxx and below are available in DIP versions.

TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

2005\07\05@152319 by John J. McDonough

flavicon
face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Olin Lathrop" <EraseMEolin_piclistSTOPspamspamRemoveMEembedinc.com>
Subject: Re: [PIC]


> John J. McDonough wrote:
>> There are some quirky things about the PIC30, maybe even quirkier than
>> the PIC16.
>
> Like what?  My general feeling is the opposite.

I didn't mean to imply that it is somehow bad, it's just that there are a
few quirks ....

Like ... 16 bit registers, except for the 40 bit ones (why 40?)
Some memory accessible to some instructions some of the time
Two different ALUs with pretty different behavior ... probably a good thing,
but odd
Almost all instructions 1 cycle except for a few 18 cycle ones ... and the
few that take two cycles unless you hold your head just right in which case
they take 3. And no, not simple and predictable like btfsc.
GP registers useable as GP registers some of the time

Hardly orthogonal!  And yeah, I make it sound worse than it is.

But nevertheless, a pretty cool chip.

--McD

2005\07\05@171131 by olin piclist

face picon face
John J. McDonough wrote:
> Like ... 16 bit registers,

Right, it's a 16 bit machine.

> except for the 40 bit ones (why 40?)

You failed to mention that these are the two DSP accumulators.  They are
meant to perform 16 bit multiply-accumulate operations, so it makes sense
for the them to be 32 bits wide.  The extra 8 bits are for overlow, which is
a very nice touch.  Some DSPs have don't have such a wide accumulator, and
it gets to be a pain.

However unless you are doing DSP operations, just ignore the DSP
accumulators and the DSP instructions.  They are different because of what
they need to do, but you don't have to use them.

> Some memory accessible to some instructions some of the time

Think of it this way.  RAM is addresses indirectly thru another register,
but some instructions give you a way to address the first K or so (I don't
remember right now) directly as a bonus.

> Two different ALUs with pretty different behavior ... probably a good
> thing, but odd

Not at all for a DSP.  Again, if you're not doing DSP, just ignore that
part.

> Almost all instructions 1 cycle except for a few 18 cycle ones ...

You neglected to mention these are divide instructions.  It would be a true
miracle if they could put a 32 by 16 bit divider for that price and power in
there that took only one cycle.  As it is, you get a 16 x 16 into 32 bit
multiply in one cycle.  The other PICs don't have dividers at all.  What
would you rather have, no divide instruction or one that takes 18 cycles?

> and the few that take two cycles unless you hold your head just right
> in which case they take 3.

Of coures branches take 2 cycles, just like on other PICs.

> And no, not simple and predictable like btfsc.
> GP registers useable as GP registers some of the time
>
> Hardly orthogonal!

Mostly orthogonal except where the feature dictated otherwise.  Overall I
think the dsPIC is a really nice well designed microcontroller that does a
real good job at what it is intended for.

> And yeah, I make it sound worse than it is.

Yes, you are being rather unfair.  Everything is a tradeoff.  Keep in mind
these things go into cost sensitive applications.  The important part is how
much capability and performance can be squeezed out of silicon that has to
sell for $5 packaged.  Whether the instruction set is 100% orthogonal or
every instruction takes the same number of cycles is not that important in
the scheme of things.

Personally I find the dsPIC easy to program, even compared to other PICs.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\07\05@171308 by Dave Tweed

face
flavicon
face
John J. McDonough <spam_OUTmcdRemoveMEspamEraseMEis-sixsigma.com> wrote:
> Olin Lathrop <TakeThisOuTolin_piclistRemoveMEspam@spam@embedinc.com> wrote:
> > John J. McDonough wrote:
> >> There are some quirky things about the PIC30, maybe even quirkier than
> >> the PIC16.
> >
> > Like what?  My general feeling is the opposite.
>
> Like ... 16 bit registers, except for the 40 bit ones (why 40?)

Most chips that have a one-cycle hardware multiplier intended for DSP
operations (primarily multiply-accumulate, a.k.a. dot product) have one
or more registers that are intended to hold the output of the multiplier
without rounding or truncation. These registers are usually 2*N + 8 bits
wide, where N is the base word width of the processor. On a 16-bit
processor like the dsPIC, that works out to 40 bits. Such a register can
accumulate the results of up to 256 multiplications without any truncation
or overflow whatsoever, allowing the inner loop to run at its maximum
speed without having to worry about exception handling. Any fixups or
exceptions happen just once, after the loop is complete.

-- Dave Tweed

2005\07\05@174045 by Marcel van Lieshout

flavicon
face
Slightly offtopic (perhaps)

I've been studying dsPIC for a few days now and the following thing puzzles
me a little:

According to the manuals, constant data in programspace is meant to be
fetched using the PSV. PSV allows the upper 32kByte RAM addressingspace to
be mapped onto a selectable (PSVPAG-register) 32 kByte programspace. The
alternative way of accessing programspace ( TableReads ) is said to be
intended only for self-programming or when you want to fetch entire
programwords (instead of only the lower 16 bits of each word). Ok, this all
makes sense.

But:
Does this mean that we will never see dsPIC's with more than 32kByte RAM? Or
are we then supposed to switch PSV on/off as needed?
>From what I've seen, the C30 compiler does not dynamically enable/disable
PSV. Does this mean C30 is limited to 32kByte RAM?

Yes, I know 8kByte RAM is the most you can get currently. :-)

Marcel

Olin Lathrop wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2005\07\05@183126 by olin piclist

face picon face
Marcel van Lieshout wrote:
> Does this mean that we will never see dsPIC's with more than 32kByte
> RAM?

The dsPIC architecture uses 16 bit data addresses, so is limited to 64Kbytes
of RAM.  I have no idea what Microchip intends to do as RAM size gets past
32Kbytes.  There are several options, like moving PSV to a smaller window,
trading off PSV with RAM visibility, or banking, just to name a few off the
top of my head.  By then there will probably be new chips out with
architectures intended to address more RAM.  There will always be lots of
problems that can be solved with 32Kbytes or less of RAM.  32Kbytes sounds
huge when you just spent some time cramming an algorithm onto a 10F204 with
24 bytes (not K bytes) of RAM.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\07\05@202834 by Chen Xiao Fan

face
flavicon
face
Any good examples on the dsPICs? Now that I have some 30F2010 and
30F4011 samples, an ICD2, a working dsPIC bootloader for the
30F4011. I am ready to start exploring the dsPIC world. However
I hope there are some tutorials for the beginners.

----------------------------------------------
Xiaofan Chen
R&D Engineer, Photoelectric Sensor Development
Pepperl+Fuchs Singapore
http://www.pepperl-fuchs.com
Signals for the world of automation
--------------------------------------------

{Original Message removed}

2005\07\06@090211 by Martin K

flavicon
face


John J. McDonough wrote:

>
> There are some quirky things about the PIC30, maybe even quirkier than
> the PIC16.  But you gotta love 120MHz clock, hardware multiply, large
> flat address space, etc. etc.

I don't see 120MHz in the datasheet anywhere, could you direct me to it?
I see DC-40MHz and 4-10MHz input with 4/8/16 PLL which means the max
speed with PLL would be 160 MHz but it says 40MHz right before that.

[some minutes pass]

I looked it up in the family reference and it says a freq. of 7.5MHz
with a 16x PLL results in 120MHz =)

--
Martin K
http://wwia.org/

2005\07\06@091758 by John J. McDonough

flavicon
face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin K" <EraseMEmartin-distlistsRemoveMEspamnnytech.net>
Subject: Re: [PIC]


> I looked it up in the family reference and it says a freq. of 7.5MHz with
> a 16x PLL results in 120MHz =)

Yes, well, that's another "quirky" thing.  The processor clock may or may
not be the same as the crystal frequency.  Actually, if you've looked at the
power consumption of 120 MHz oscillators or tried to buy a 120 MHz crystal,
the PLL approach is a pretty good one.

--McD

2005\07\06@093356 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
John J. McDonough wrote :

> From: "Martin K" <martin-distlists@nnytech.
net>
> Subject: Re: [PIC]
>
>
> > I looked it up in the family
reference and it says a freq.
> > of 7.5MHz with
> > a 16x PLL
results in 120MHz =)
>
> Yes, well, that's another "quirky" thing.  
The processor
> clock may or may not be the same as the crystal
>
frequency.

"Quirky" compared with what ?

Or, in other words, how is
that different
from the PIC18-series ?

Jan-Erik.



2005\07\06@094901 by Daniel Chia

flavicon
face
Unfortunately at this time there really isn't that many dsPIC tutorials
for beginners. But for most MCU-like purposes the dsPIC is pretty much
like the 18f although working with the byte manipulation instructions do
have their quirks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Chia

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent
perspiration."

    - Thomas Edison

E-mail: spamdanielcjh.....spamspamyahoo.com.sg
MSN: danstryder01spam_OUTspam@spam@yahoo.com.sg
ICQ: 37878331
------------------------------------------------------------------------


> {Original Message removed}

2005\07\06@132401 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Wed, Jul 06, 2005 at 03:33:56PM +0200, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Also there is a simple analogy. The PLL is a "gear" that makes the part go
faster than it's clock.

BAJ

2005\07\06@134912 by olin piclist

face picon face
Daniel Chia wrote:
> Unfortunately at this time there really isn't that many dsPIC tutorials
> for beginners. But for most MCU-like purposes the dsPIC is pretty much
> like the 18f although working with the byte manipulation instructions do
> have their quirks.

I have to disagree with this.  The dsPIC isn't really that close to other
PICs as far as programming goes.  The multiple W registers, register
indirect addressing, and dedicated stack point give it a different feel from
the 18F.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\07\06@145043 by Dave W Turner

picon face
Multiple working registers!?!?  Not that I actually have any dsPics to
play with, but how on earth to multiple working registers work?

On 7/6/05, Olin Lathrop <.....olin_piclistspamspam.....embedinc.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2005\07\06@182319 by olin piclist

face picon face
dave.w.turner@gmail.com wrote:
> Multiple working registers!?!?  Not that I actually have any dsPics to
> play with, but how on earth to multiple working registers work?

Pretty much like any other machine that has a bunch of "registers" separate
from data memory.  For details, see the manual.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\07\06@185857 by Dave VanHorn

flavicon
face
At 01:50 PM 7/6/2005, dave.w.turnerKILLspamspamEraseMEgmail.com wrote:
>Multiple working registers!?!?  Not that I actually have any dsPics to
>play with, but how on earth to multiple working registers work?

Grab an AVR and see!  Pretty nicely.

ldi     TEMP,$15                ;load immediate $15 into reg called
TEMP (retlw $15)
lds     TEMP2,Whacks    ;Load from SRAM the contents of location
called "Whacks" into reg called TEMP2
or      TEMP,TEMP2              ;Or together those registers
brne    Somewhere               ;Branch if non equal (<>0) to "somewhere"

And so on.

Keep things in registers between routines like flags, or dedicate a
couple of registers to the ISRs to avoid the delay of pushing and popping.

2005\07\07@035352 by Chen Xiao Fan

face
flavicon
face
So what will you suggest one to learn, dsPIC or AVR or even ARM if one
wants to upgrade his or her programming skills on medium end MCU
(higher end than the PIC12/16 or even PIC18)?

There are few good examples of dsPIC projects. MPLAB ICD2 is a good
tools to develop dsPICs. The 28 pin dsPIC starter board seems not so
difficult to build. The compiler is not really free but Microchip
has the free 60-day demo compilers.

There are plenty of good AVR tutorials on the internet and they have
good and free AVR-GCC. The STK500 also seems to be quite reasonably
priced. The community is also very supportive. AVR Butterfly seems
to be a nice demo board if I want to learn higher end AVR.

Then again one would like to use cheap ARM (LPC2xxx) than the very high
end AVRs like AtMega2560. Are there any cheap ARM development tools
like STK500 or MPLAB ICD2? I know there is the GNU C compiler.
Are there any cheap ARM demo board one can buy or build within
a few days of spare time (cheap means <US$100)?

Regards,
Xiaofan

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave VanHorn [EraseMEdvanhorn@spam@spam@spam@dvanhorn.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 6:59 AM
...
Grab an AVR and see!  Pretty nicely.
...

2005\07\07@043051 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> So what will you suggest one to learn, dsPIC or AVR or even ARM if one
> wants to upgrade his or her programming skills on medium end MCU
> (higher end than the PIC12/16 or even PIC18)?

IMHO the step above the PIC/AVR should not be the 30F or a high-end AVR
but an ARM or another high-end processor (I am not familiar with others,
but they probably exist).

> Then again one would like to use cheap ARM (LPC2xxx) than the
> very high
> end AVRs like AtMega2560. Are there any cheap ARM development tools
> like STK500 or MPLAB ICD2? I know there is the GNU C compiler.
> Are there any cheap ARM demo board one can buy or build within
> a few days of spare time (cheap means <US$100)?

Check Olimex. The Philips ARMs have a build-in bootloader and can be
programmed with a JTAG wiggler (also available from Olimex). The IDE we
used in my classes can be found at
http://et.fnt.hvu.nl/et/docenten/Bent/arm/ARMDevEnv.exe (GNU C,
Assembler), the latest basic project files are at
http://www.voti.nl/hvu/D3EEMS1/ram-rom.zip. For next school year I might
integrate Java into the IDE.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\07\07@080619 by Maarten Hofman

face picon face
> IMHO the step above the PIC/AVR should not be the 30F or a high-end AVR
> but an ARM or another high-end processor (I am not familiar with others,
> but they probably exist).

What about the Z8? I know nothing about the Z8, except that they have
a good marketing department. I was just curious how it compares in the
scheme of things.

Greetings,
Maarten Hofman.

2005\07\07@085944 by Dave VanHorn

flavicon
face
At 07:06 AM 7/7/2005, Maarten Hofman wrote:
> > IMHO the step above the PIC/AVR should not be the 30F or a high-end AVR
> > but an ARM or another high-end processor (I am not familiar with others,
> > but they probably exist).
>
>What about the Z8? I know nothing about the Z8, except that they have
>a good marketing department. I was just curious how it compares in the
>scheme of things.

The typical Z8 has all ram is registers, any pair can be a pointer,
but execution is 12 clock cycles per instruction.
I don't know if this is true of the "encore" devices.

I did a lot of development on the E08 and E04 parts, as well as the C21


2005\07\07@111859 by Paul Hutchinson

picon face
> -----Original Message-----
> From: @spam@piclist-bouncesspamspamKILLspammit.edu On Behalf Of Dave VanHorn
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:00 AM
>
> The typical Z8 has all ram is registers, any pair can be a pointer,
> but execution is 12 clock cycles per instruction.
> I don't know if this is true of the "encore" devices.

The Z8Encore line uses the new eZ8 CPU. It executes a superset of the
original Z8 instruction set. It has the direct register-to-register
architecture of the original but uses only 2-9 clock cycles per instruction.
The eZ8 is a "C" friendly CPU and Zilog provides a very good free compiler
for it.

Paul Hutch

2005\07\07@125138 by Dave VanHorn

flavicon
face

>
>The Z8Encore line uses the new eZ8 CPU. It executes a superset of the
>original Z8 instruction set. It has the direct register-to-register
>architecture of the original but uses only 2-9 clock cycles per instruction.
>The eZ8 is a "C" friendly CPU and Zilog provides a very good free compiler
>for it.

ah..

I have a dev kit sitting here for it, but hadn't had time to play with it yet.


2005\07\07@125215 by Peter van Hoof

flavicon
face
> The Z8Encore line uses the new eZ8 CPU. It executes a superset of the
> original Z8 instruction set. It has the direct register-to-register
> architecture of the original but uses only 2-9 clock cycles per instruction.
> The eZ8 is a "C" friendly CPU and Zilog provides a very good free compiler
> for it.
>
> Paul Hutch

I dont think the compiler is free, it comes with the development boards.

Peter van Hoof.

2005\07\07@131320 by Dave VanHorn

flavicon
face
At 11:52 AM 7/7/2005, Peter van Hoof wrote:
>>The Z8Encore line uses the new eZ8 CPU. It executes a superset of the
>>original Z8 instruction set. It has the direct register-to-register
>>architecture of the original but uses only 2-9 clock cycles per instruction.
>>The eZ8 is a "C" friendly CPU and Zilog provides a very good free compiler
>>for it.
>>Paul Hutch
>
>I dont think the compiler is free, it comes with the development boards.

It was in the kit that I paid $9.95 for through Digi-Key
That's close enough to free.

2005\07\07@161955 by Paul Hutchinson

picon face
> -----Original Message-----
> From: spamBeGonepiclist-bouncesRemoveMEspamEraseMEmit.edu On Behalf Of Peter van Hoof
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 12:52 PM
<snip>
> > The eZ8 is a "C" friendly CPU and Zilog provides a very good
> free compiler
> > for it.
> >
> > Paul Hutch
>
> I dont think the compiler is free, it comes with the development boards.
>
> Peter van Hoof.

Well it's not free for anyone to just download and use any way they want
(e.g. using it's IDE for coding PIC's). However it is included for free with
any Zilog development tool including the simple $20.00 debug/programming
adapter.

Also, I suspect that if you are representing a real company (non-hobbyist)
and asked nicely they'd give you a registration number so you could download
a copy without buying anything.

Paul Hutch

2005\07\07@200209 by Chen Xiao Fan

face
flavicon
face
Thanks a lot for the link.  What is the demo board are you
using in the institute? The JTAG wiggler and the boards are
not that expensive (but hard to be built by oneself because
of the footprint) so that I may consider to buy one. Which board
will you recommend? My initial target is quite modest,
just to get familiar with the LPC2xxx chips and the assembler
and C compiler.

The IDE looks quite nice. Sorry but I think there are missing
files in the ram-rom.zip (main.c, etc). It is a pity that the site
is not in English.

Regards,
Xiaofan

{Original Message removed}

2005\07\07@203523 by Chen Xiao Fan

face
flavicon
face
I have not used any Z8. I have learned Z80 in the university though
(together with MCS8051 for the MCU course).

It seems to me that they have a good marketing department since they
successfully pleased our purchasing department very well but
unfortunately their product does not have the features to make us
switch. I think they went sleep for quite sometimes and wake up quite
recently only to find that they are already far behind PIC and AVR.
Their people know this so they comes out quite some nice chips recently.
However, at least in the  low end, I do not see they have any chance of
gaining the market share even though the Z8 Encore! XP (another XP ^=^)
looks quite okay.

In the higher end I also see no point of going to eZ80 or similar
since ARM is on the way to be a dominant force. Maybe Zilog
will remain strong in the remote control area. :)

Regards,
Xiaofan

-----Original Message-----
From: Maarten Hofman [RemoveMEcashimorKILLspamspamRemoveMEgmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 8:06 PM

What about the Z8? I know nothing about the Z8, except that they have
a good marketing department. I was just curious how it compares in the
scheme of things.

Greetings,
Maarten Hofman.


'[PIC]'
2005\09\09@144016 by Michael Noel
flavicon
face
test

2005\09\14@082653 by Manwlis Giannos

flavicon
face


Hello to all. I'm new to the list and i don't really
know if i'm addressing the right list.
I want to interface more than 2 PIC
micros. How can achieve that? Is the SPI the best
solution?
Thank you...

Manos



       

       
               
___________________________________________________________
×ñçóéìïðïéåßôå Yahoo!;
ÂáñåèÞêáôå ôá åíï÷ëçôéêÜ ìçíýìáôá (spam); Ôï Yahoo! Mail
äéáèÝôåé ôçí êáëýôåñç äõíáôÞ ðñïóôáóßá êáôÜ ôùí åíï÷ëçôéêþí
ìçíõìÜôùí http://login.yahoo.com/config/mail?.intl=gr


'[PIC]'
2005\11\04@034308 by bi ju p
picon face
Hai,
    Can anyone tell me how to reprogramm a code protected PIC 16F877,I am using the ICPROG as software and P877 As Programmer.If anyone have an idea please help me.thanking you. 

2005\11\04@150248 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Fri, 2005-11-04 at 08:42 +0000, bi ju p wrote:
>  Hai,
>      Can anyone tell me how to reprogramm a code protected PIC 16F877,I am using the ICPROG as software and P877 As Programmer.If anyone have an idea please help me.thanking you.
>

I'm not the familiar with IC-PROG, however, to program a code protected
PIC you need to get your programming software to perform a "bulk erase".

See if you can find something like "full erase", or "wipe device" sort
of command, that should work. Then do you normal program cycle.

TTYL


-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

2005\11\07@173136 by Nicholas Robinson

flavicon
face
Hi

I'm new to PICs and would like to programme an 18f2455, ideally in a linux
environment. I have a pcb for an El Cheapo programmer, but in his book, Myke
Predko doesn't state it will work - not surprising probably as I don't think
this chip had been released at the time!

Reading around the internet,  I found this information

http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/winpic/#adapt_18F2x5x

that indirectly suggests El Cheapo should work at it delivers the ICSP signals
to the correct pins. The only addition would seem to be grounding the low
voltage programming pin.

Could someone tell me if I am correct or suggest an alternative, equally
cheapo, programmer if not? Also, I'm looking at pikdev as the programming
software, is this a wise choice?

Thanks

Nick
--

Fight Prejudice - Fight the Ban (see http://www.countrysidealliance.org)

2005\11\07@174208 by Mike Hord

picon face
www.piclist.com/techref/member/xiaofan-sg-/index.htm

Using off-the-shelf Microchip tools under linux.

Mike H.

2005\11\07@232729 by Maarten Hofman

face picon face
> I'm new to PICs and would like to programme an 18f2455, ideally in a linux
> environment. I have a pcb for an El Cheapo programmer, but in his book, Myke
> Predko doesn't state it will work - not surprising probably as I don't think
> this chip had been released at the time!

I built the El Cheapo, and have used it succesfully with IC-PROG.EXE
to program a variety of PICmicros beyond the Myke's
specifications/software. However, I have also encountered a number of
PICmicros (16F628A, 16F877A, 16F688) that did not work with the El
Cheapo. Unfortunately I have no 18F2455, so I can't try it, nor did I
ever find a complete list of supported/unsupported PICmicros for the
El Cheapo.

And yes, I also tried various software packages under linux. They are
generally slightly more difficult to get to work, but you can use them
to program the same range of chips using the El Cheapo (and yes, the
16F628A, 16F877A and 16F688 won't program under linux either).

I myself am a big fan of my Olimex JDM programmer, which should be
able to program your 18F2455 without problems, as long as you have the
correct software and a compatible serial port. I like my PicKit 2 even
more, but there is no software for the PicKit 2 yet (as far as I know)
that supports the 18F2455, though this will most likely come in the
near future.

Greetings,
Maarten Hofman.


'[PIC]'
2005\12\01@190222 by Steph Smith
flavicon
face
whilst searching for the firmware for ICD2;without any luck,i came accross this:-
ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/ICD2_Advisory_51566b.pdf
As i haven't spent the money on an ICD2,or made one ;0) the last paragraph
is a bit worrying!

2005\12\02@014857 by Chen Xiao Fan

face
flavicon
face
>whilst searching for the firmware for ICD2;without any luck,
>i came accross this:-
>ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/ICD2_Advisory_51566b.pdf
>As i haven't spent the money on an ICD2,or made one ;0) the
>last paragraph is a bit worrying!

What do you mean by the firmware for ICD2? It is there inside the
MPLAB directory. For version V7.xx, it is at here:
C:\Program Files\Microchip\MPLAB IDE\ICD2

If you mean the source code, I think it is not available to the
general public.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2005\12\02@022553 by Jose Da Silva

flavicon
face
On December 1, 2005 04:06 pm, Steph Smith wrote:
> whilst searching for the firmware for ICD2;without any luck,i came
> accross this:-
> ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/ICD2_Advisory_51566b.
>pdf As i haven't spent the money on an ICD2,or made one ;0) the last
> paragraph is a bit worrying!

It is just common sense.

You have a computer and monitor which are directly connected to the AC
power lines and you don't want to connect your test jig to the power
lines, otherwise you may burn-out some test instruments attempting to
test your circuit before you program your chip(s).

Somewhere along the way, you have to isolate one thing or the other.

Some test jigs are the size of an office desk (or larger) and run off of
3-phase power or something just as esoteric, so it is unlikely you
would isolate those from the AC power lines. Computers and monitors you
may be able to isolate, but in a test environment, someone is going to
plug something in sooner-or-later and you have a direct connection to
AC again.
To you, an isolated USB hub may sound expensive, but in cases like this,
that could be the cheapest solution to isolate test jigs from direct AC
power lines.

2005\12\02@085443 by Mike Hord

picon face
> On December 1, 2005 04:06 pm, Steph Smith wrote:
> > whilst searching for the firmware for ICD2;without any luck,i came
> > accross this:-
> > ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/ICD2_Advisory_51566b.
> >pdf As i haven't spent the money on an ICD2,or made one ;0) the last
> > paragraph is a bit worrying!
>
> It is just common sense.

Actually, I think Steph may have been talking about this paragraph:

"MPLAB ICD 2 UNIT UPGRADE
If you are having problems with ICD operation, please check the revision
of your pod, found on the back of the unit. If the part number is 10-00319
R15 through R21 without an "ECO 3013" sticker, please contact your
local Microchip FAE or sales office to return the unit for replacement."

Mike H.

...whose ICD2 says "R13"

2005\12\02@091602 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>If the part number is 10-00319 R15 through R21 without
>an "ECO 3013" sticker, please contact your local
>Microchip FAE or sales office to return the unit for
>replacement."
>
>Mike H.
>
>...whose ICD2 says "R13"

Oh, maybe your OK then ;)

Mine says R15 ... without an ECO sticker.

Now who to contact to send it away ...


'[PIC]'
2006\01\17@153517 by n/a
What program in asembler can send 4 bytes through rs422 port to  
PIC16F627A, and then this pic
send this bytes (4 x 8bits)to LEDs (8 LEDs in 4 groups).
Thank You for your help.

TakeThisOuTjolanta_szarzynskaspamo2.pl

2006\01\18@032004 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
The problem it's easy. RS422 it's a standard and not a protocol.Connect your RS422 TX converter on the serial TX of your pic.Then send with your favourite speed a byte. Receive the byte with theother PIC, convert it from RS422 to digital, read it on the RS232 RXinput and copy it to the port you have led's.If you're a beginner in programming I suggest you instead of assemblersome compilers: jal or as a wrong alternative picbasicpro.
cheers,Vasile
On 1/17/06, Jolanta Szarzyñska <spamBeGonejolanta_szarzynskaKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTo2.pl> wrote:> What program in asembler can send 4 bytes through rs422 port to> PIC16F627A, and then this pic> send this bytes (4 x 8bits)to LEDs (8 LEDs in 4 groups).> Thank You for your help.>> EraseMEjolanta_szarzynska.....spamKILLspamo2.pl>


'[PIC]'
2006\02\16@124140 by I2C
flavicon
face
This is a compiler question,

In p18f4550.f we find all the hardware registers declared
(extern), but where are the definitions?

2006\02\16@141404 by Steve Smith

flavicon
face
In the include file !

-----Original Message-----
From: spampiclist-bouncesspammit.edu [piclist-bouncesSTOPspamspammit.edu] On Behalf Of
i2cSTOPspamspamKILLspambtinternet.com
Sent: 16 February 2006 17:38
To: @spam@piclist.....spamspammit.edu
Subject: [PIC]

This is a compiler question,

In p18f4550.f we find all the hardware registers declared
(extern), but where are the definitions?

2006\02\16@144801 by John Temples

flavicon
face
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Steve Smith wrote:

> In the include file !

No, declarations appear in the include file, not definitions.  The
definitions are in p18F4550.asm in the src/.../proc directory.

(I am assuming we're talking about C18, and that the OP meant
p18f4550.h, not p18f4550.f).

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\02\16@184341 by I2C

flavicon
face
> > In the include file !
>
> No, declarations appear in the include file, not definitions.  The
> definitions are in p18F4550.asm in the src/.../proc directory.
>
> (I am assuming we're talking about C18, and that the OP meant
> p18f4550.h, not p18f4550.f).

Sorry, it was .h not .f, but you guessed correctly. I do know
that the definitions are found in the .asm file, but .asm is for
assembler programmers, in C with have to have it as well, so
unless it is hiding in some library, it is missing..

2006\02\16@191438 by John Temples

flavicon
face
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, .....i2c.....spamRemoveMEbtinternet.com wrote:

>> No, declarations appear in the include file, not definitions.  The
>> definitions are in p18F4550.asm in the src/.../proc directory.
>>
>> (I am assuming we're talking about C18, and that the OP meant
>> p18f4550.h, not p18f4550.f).
>
> Sorry, it was .h not .f, but you guessed correctly. I do know
> that the definitions are found in the .asm file, but .asm is for
> assembler programmers, in C with have to have it as well, so
> unless it is hiding in some library, it is missing..

The asm files included with the C compiler are not for assembler
programmers.  C18 doesn't have a convenient syntax for aliasing the
SFR names to absolute addresses, so this is done in assembly language.
You will find p18f4550.o in p18f4550.lib, which is what your C program
will link against when you build it.

This is all transparent; you don't need to do anything.

--
John W. Temples, III


'[PIC]'
2006\03\09@204434 by a b
picon face
Re: Compiler choice

I am an experienced programmer in C and Basic on PCs and am looking to
program 16F84, 16F628, 16F876 and 16F877 chips.

I am new to micros and need to select a compiler that will carry me not just
through the beginner stage but serve me into the future.

I am looking specfically at MBasic, mEL Picbasic Pro, Hitech C, and CCS C.

I do not mind paying for a compiler unless there is a better free one.
Has anyone used some/all of these compilers and can give me the pros and
cons on them?
Which produces the tightest code?
Are there any others that anyone can recommend (sticking to Basic and C)?

Thanks
Fred


2006\03\09@210409 by Timothy Weber

face picon face
a b wrote:
> I am looking specfically at MBasic, mEL Picbasic Pro, Hitech C, and CCS C.

> Which produces the tightest code?
> Are there any others that anyone can recommend (sticking to Basic and C)?

I did some informal tests on just a single project and found that BoostC
produced slightly tighter code than Hi-Tech, and mikroElectronika's
output was about twice as large as either of the other two.

Just a single data point, YMMV, etc...  but all three are free to try,
and it was very interesting running the same program through all three
and seeing what I had to do differently.  I recommend the exercise.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2006\03\09@225205 by Maarten Hofman

face picon face
> I am an experienced programmer in C and Basic on PCs and am looking to
> program 16F84, 16F628, 16F876 and 16F877 chips.

I recommend NOT using the 16F84, using a 16F648A instead of the 16F628
(unless you plan to do a commercial product, but in that case you can
always scale down to the 16F627A/16F628A afterwards), and using the
16F876A and 16F877A instead of the 16F876 and 16F877. See discussions
elsewhere on this list for more information. I would also seriously
consider looking into the 18F series of PICmicros. They tend to be
more C friendly (resulting in even tighter code), are not much more
expensive and have many features that now make me wish I had used them
from the start. Of course, all this depends on having a good
programmer, but as the PICkit 2 is inexpensive and now supports most
PICmicros, there isn't a really good excuse to sticking with old PICs
because of a bad programmer.

Greetings,
Maarten Hofman.

2006\03\09@231909 by a b

picon face
Thanks for your reply Maarten,

I am still trying to learn about the differences between the various PICs

I think my original email was "trimmed" in my posting  as the  rest stated:

"I am new to micros and need to select a compiler that will carry me not
just through the beginner stage but serve me into the future.
I am looking specfically at MBasic, mEL Picbasic Pro, Hitech C, and CCS C.
I do not mind paying for a compiler unless there is a better free one.
Has anyone used some/all of these compilers and can give me the pros and
cons on them?
Are there any others that anyone can recommend (sticking to Basic and C)?  
"


Which compiler do you use for the chips that you recommended?
Is there much of a difference between C and Basic in speed, size and
features?

Regards

Fred




{Quote hidden}

>

2006\03\09@233811 by Harold Hallikainen

face picon face
I've been using Microchip's C18 compiler for several years, and it's
served me well. As others have suggested, you may as well start with the
18 series, as it's quite a bit more powerful, makes nicer C code, and
gives you room to grow. I'm still using 16 (and 12) for really small stuff
written in assembly. Anything of any size, though, I go right to the 18
and C (with interrupt service routines in assembly). As far as which chip,
it's largely determined by how much I/O and what periperhals you need for
the particular project. Choose the cheapest chip that will do the job.
Microchip has a pretty nice pin compatible upgrade path giving you more
ram, flash, eeprom, and enhanced peripherals.

Microchip has a free student version of their compiler on their website.
Great for learning. It's the same as the regular version, but
optimizations turn off after some period of time.

Harold


--
FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com

2006\03\10@055658 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face


Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: CP Presentation Server
X-clientstamp: [194.237.142.24]

a b wrote :

> through the beginner stage...

Note that many recomend assembler through the
"beginner stage". That might give you a faster learing
curve with regard to the PIC architecture.

Then, when you feel comfortable with the architecture,
it might be time to select a 3G tool.

And you'll get a full-function assembler tool for free
from Microchip. :-)

Jan-Erik.



2006\03\10@062620 by Vic Fraenckel

flavicon
face
I believe the subject line is there for the original poster to inform the readers,  in a concise manner, what the subject of the post is. "Re: [PIC]" is less than concise!

Vic
________________________________________________________

Victor Fraenckel - The Windman        
victorf ATSIGN windreader DOT com
KC2GUI                                                  

2006\03\10@131417 by Sergey Dryga

face picon face
a b <cranky58 <at> hotmail.com> writes:

>
> Re: Compiler choice
>
> I am an experienced programmer in C and Basic on PCs and am looking to
> program 16F84, 16F628, 16F876 and 16F877 chips.

As many people mentioned on htis list, stay away from 16F84, more modern chips
are better/cheaper

>
> I am new to micros and need to select a compiler that will carry me not just
> through the beginner stage but serve me into the future.
>
> I am looking specfically at MBasic, mEL Picbasic Pro, Hitech C, and CCS C.

I use CCS C and like it.  Although I learned PIC programming in assembler, I
never liked it.  CCS C allows you to go as deep to hardware as you would like
to.  And you can always check listing to see the asm code.

CCS C produces tight code, and is much faster to develop, especially if you
have more than 8-bit math.  And the price of 18F parts is not that higher
compared to 16F, which allows one to move to higher performance if needed.

Compared to other C compilers, CCS C has "funny" way to deal with multiple
files in a project.  One has to include .c file, not just headers.  This allows
them to eliminate the need for a linker.  It's non-traditional approach, but
removes any problems with linking and, in the end, makes development faster.

If you go with CCS C, I would recommend to buy their programmer too.  It is
relatively inexpensive (~$50), but lets you do source-level debugging.

>
> I do not mind paying for a compiler unless there is a better free one.
> Has anyone used some/all of these compilers and can give me the pros and
> cons on them?
> Which produces the tightest code?
> Are there any others that anyone can recommend (sticking to Basic and C)?


2006\03\10@145135 by pic

flavicon
face
My C program for flashing leds is not working. I was wondering if someone
would know what might be the problem, This is the source code, for a device
pic18f4620 with internal osc


#include <p18cxxx.h>

#pragma config WDT = OFF
#pragma config OSC = INTIO67

void delay (void)
{
 int i;

 for (i = 0; i < 10000; i++)
   ;
}

void main (void)
{
 /* Make all bits on the Port B (LEDs) output bits.
  * If bit is cleared, then the bit is an output bit.
  */
 TRISD = 0;
 LATD = 3; //d0 and d1 are on

 while (1)
   {
     /* Delay so human eye can see change */
     delay ();

     /* Light the LEDs */
     LATD += 1;
   }
}

2006\03\10@150015 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On 3/10/06, pic <@spam@pictalkspamspambtinternet.com> wrote:
> My C program for flashing leds is not working. I was wondering if someone
> would know what might be the problem, This is the source code, for a device
> pic18f4620 with internal osc

Since you've now tried two programs and niether is working, perhaps
the problem is your hardware.

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\03\10@155940 by pic

flavicon
face
> > My C program for flashing leds is not working. I was wondering if
someone
> > would know what might be the problem, This is the source code, for a
device
> > pic18f4620 with internal osc
>
> Since you've now tried two programs and niether is working, perhaps
> the problem is your hardware.
>

Hi, I am actually getting something, I should have mentioned it-
latd0 and latd1 are switched on.


> Josh
> --
> A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
> completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
> fools.
>         -Douglas Adams
>
> --

2006\03\10@171702 by Jinx

face picon face
Is there a Subject shortage ? I have a wide selection of Subjects
available for no charge. Browse through and pick one suitable

Seriously, I might want to look these enquiries up one day and
"no subject" doesn't make it any easier

2006\03\10@205725 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Mar 10, 2006, at 11:51 AM, pic wrote:

> My C program for flashing leds is not working.
>       /* Light the LEDs */
>       LATD += 1;
>

Both of your programs use this to 'toggle' the LEDs, but
I'm not sure it's  a good idea due to the usual
problems with Read/Modify/write on PICs.  Just because you
wrote a 1 or 0 to a port pin doesn't mean that's what will
be read back when you read the port...

Try it with a shadow register...
       latd_shadow += 1;
    LATD = latd_shadow;

> void delay (void)
> {
>   for (i = 0; i < 10000; i++)
>     ;
> }
>
Depending on compiler specifics, this might be a very short
delay to pair to human perceptions.  I have a "flame" simulator
that changes the brightness of some LEDs with a 128 count inner
PWM loop and a 50 count outer loop (so, approximately equivilent
to a 6400 count single loop) that flickers at a reasonably
realistic rate (several times per second, at least), and it has
a lot more stuff in the inner loop than your code.  I seem to
recall that PICs at nominal frequency take 24 bits worth of
count to get delays in the one-second range.  (Hmm.  That was
implicit in your timer-based attempt.  prescale of 32 on a a
16 bit counter is ~2million cycles per second.)  I would hope
your compiler does the delay loop in far less than 100 cycles,
for a delay period of far less than 0.5 seconds...

BillW

2006\03\10@220906 by pic

flavicon
face
>
> > My C program for flashing leds is not working.
> >       /* Light the LEDs */
> >       LATD += 1;
> >
>
> Both of your programs use this to 'toggle' the LEDs, but
> I'm not sure it's  a good idea due to the usual
> problems with Read/Modify/write on PICs.  Just because you
> wrote a 1 or 0 to a port pin doesn't mean that's what will
> be read back when you read the port...
>
> Try it with a shadow register...
> latd_shadow += 1;
>      LATD = latd_shadow;
>

ok, I will try, and let you know

{Quote hidden}

Well, my C program has no prescale; I took this program as-is
from the C18 compiler examples; I think it is the third one.

2006\03\10@222416 by pic

flavicon
face


> >
> > > My C program for flashing leds is not working.
> > >       /* Light the LEDs */
> > >       LATD += 1;
> > >
> >
> > Both of your programs use this to 'toggle' the LEDs, but
> > I'm not sure it's  a good idea due to the usual
> > problems with Read/Modify/write on PICs.  Just because you
> > wrote a 1 or 0 to a port pin doesn't mean that's what will
> > be read back when you read the port...
> >
> > Try it with a shadow register...
> > latd_shadow += 1;
> >      LATD = latd_shadow;
> >
>
> ok, I will try, and let you know
>

No, it not that. Here is my current program:
#include <p18cxxx.h>

#pragma config WDT = OFF
#pragma config OSC = INTIO67

void delay (void)
{
 int i;

 for (i = 0; i < 10000; i++)
   ;
}

void main (void)
{
 /* Make all bits on the Port B (LEDs) output bits.
  * If bit is cleared, then the bit is an output bit.
  */
 int mylatd;

 TRISD = 0;
 LATD = 3;
 mylatd=3;

 while (1)
   {
     /* Delay so human eye can see change */
     delay ();

     /* Light the LEDs */
  mylatd++;
     LATD = mylatd;
   }
}

2006\03\11@004116 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Fri, 2006-03-10 at 17:57 -0800, William Chops Westfield wrote:
> On Mar 10, 2006, at 11:51 AM, pic wrote:
>
> > My C program for flashing leds is not working.
> >       /* Light the LEDs */
> >       LATD += 1;
> >
>
> Both of your programs use this to 'toggle' the LEDs, but
> I'm not sure it's  a good idea due to the usual
> problems with Read/Modify/write on PICs.  Just because you
> wrote a 1 or 0 to a port pin doesn't mean that's what will
> be read back when you read the port...

Actually, that's the point of the LAT registers. The LAT registers map
directly to the latches that control the outputs. A read of these
registers reads the state of the actual latches for the outputs, there
is no influence from the outside world.

While a read-modify-write operation does occur, it will always read
correctly no matter what the port pins are at.

TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

2006\03\11@064834 by Bill & Pookie

picon face
Maybe first just try to turn led on or off.  See what led does when you
don't turn it on or off, then try to get  it to change state.  Once you get
it where one program turns it on and another program turns it off, you can
try to get it to flash.

If somethng don't work, simplify it till it does then work your way back
up..

Bill


{Original Message removed}

2006\03\11@095605 by pic

flavicon
face


> Maybe first just try to turn led on or off.  See what led does when you
> don't turn it on or off, then try to get  it to change state.  Once you
get
> it where one program turns it on and another program turns it off, you can
> try to get it to flash.

ok, I will try this now, i.e. turn a led on, then off, then on, then
check if it is still on after that. I shall report back shortly.

2006\03\13@081825 by Bill Cornutt

picon face

----- Original Message -----
From: "pic" <TakeThisOuTpictalkKILLspamspam@spam@btinternet.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <.....piclistRemoveMEspammit.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC]


{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\03\23@075748 by Antonio Quevedo

flavicon
face
Hello everyone,

I intend to use a PIC16C774 for reading 10 analog channels at 12-bit
resolution. However most of the input signals are bipolar (positive and
negative voltages). I wonder if it is possible to configure the PIC A/D
converter for reading signals between -2V and +2V, instead of the usual
0-to-5V range. I can do that with a "level shifter", i.e., adding 2.5VDC
to each signal, so its range is converted to 0.5-4.5V, but at a cost of
one op-amp for each channel. So it would be easier if my A/D converter
would eb able to convert bipolar signals directly.

Best regards,

Antonio Quevedo

---------------------------------------
Antônio A. F. Quevedo
DEB - FEEC / UNICAMP
Caixa Postal (P.O. Box) 6040
Campinas - SP
13084-971
Campinas - SP
Brasil
msn: KILLspamquevedo_unicampspamTakeThisOuThotmail.com
Tel: +55-19-3788-9290

2006\03\23@084132 by David VanHorn

picon face
On 3/23/06, Antonio Quevedo <TakeThisOuTquevedospamspam_OUTunicamp.br> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I intend to use a PIC16C774 for reading 10 analog channels at 12-bit
> resolution. However most of the input signals are bipolar (positive and
> negative voltages). I wonder if it is possible to configure the PIC A/D
> converter for reading signals between -2V and +2V, instead of the usual
> 0-to-5V range. I can do that with a "level shifter", i.e., adding 2.5VDC
> to each signal, so its range is converted to 0.5-4.5V, but at a cost of
> one op-amp for each channel. So it would be easier if my A/D converter
> would eb able to convert bipolar signals directly.


Sorry, I replied on the other thread first.

No, this isn't possible   The signals have to be scaled and conditioned to
fall within the range of 0V to VCC.  You came up with exactly the approach
that I did in the other thread.   For multiple channels, you could use an
external multiplexing chip (those can easily deal with the +2/-2 range) and
then a single opamp, and you'd only need four I/O pins to control the mux
and one A/D input.

2006\03\23@112428 by Bob Blick

face picon face

> I intend to use a PIC16C774 for reading 10 analog channels at 12-bit
> resolution. However most of the input signals are bipolar (positive and
> negative voltages). I wonder if it is possible to configure the PIC A/D
> converter for reading signals between -2V and +2V, instead of the usual
> 0-to-5V range. I can do that with a "level shifter", i.e., adding 2.5VDC
> to each signal, so its range is converted to 0.5-4.5V, but at a cost of
> one op-amp for each channel. So it would be easier if my A/D converter
> would eb able to convert bipolar signals directly.

Hi Antonio,

You can do -10 to +10 using just resistors. Some inexpensive data
acquisition cards do it this way.

But if you need gain or even unity you will need an active approach.

Cheerful regards,

Bob


2006\03\23@221503 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 05:00 AM 3/23/2006, Antonio Quevedo wrote:

>I intend to use a PIC16C774 for reading 10 analog channels at 12-bit
>resolution. However most of the input signals are bipolar (positive and
>negative voltages). I wonder if it is possible to configure the PIC A/D
>converter for reading signals between -2V and +2V, instead of the usual
>0-to-5V range.

First: Please use a proper subject line.  Having "{PIC}" all by
itself is highly inconvenient for many of us who sort email by subject.


What you want to do might be able to be done with just resistors and
a suitable voltage reference.  But this will introduce a net gain
loss.  You won't be able to achieve full 12 bit resolution with only
a plus minus 2V input signal.

However, where are the input signals coming from?  Can you float the
PIC and all of its circuitry with respect to the input signals?  In
other words, does the Vss line of the PIC circuitry have to be
connected to the input signal common?

More information will help . . .

dwayne


--
Dwayne Reid   <RemoveMEdwaynerspamspamSTOPspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 22 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2006)
 .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-
    `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'
Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.


'[PIC]'
2006\04\12@190411 by moja nona
picon face


'[PIC]'
2006\06\04@220125 by Glasson
picon face
Does anyone have an old copy of the software that shipped with the
PICSTART-16B1?

A local school has this setup with an old DOS 486 machine, which has
been running fine for years. The software now needs to be reinstalled
and the originals are long gone. I know the whole setup should be
replaced, but they have a lot of labs and training stuff already written
and would like to keep the original setup.

Thanks

2006\06\04@233150 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 6/5/06, Glasson <.....glassonEraseMEspamcharter.net> wrote:
> Does anyone have an old copy of the software that shipped with the
> PICSTART-16B1?
>
> A local school has this setup with an old DOS 486 machine, which has
> been running fine for years. The software now needs to be reinstalled
> and the originals are long gone. I know the whole setup should be
> replaced, but they have a lot of labs and training stuff already written
> and would like to keep the original setup.
>
> Thanks

Google is your friend.
www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/industry/datasheets/microchip/Mchipweb/1010/Tools/Archive/index.htm
www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/industry/datasheets/microchip/Mchipweb/Download/Tools/Archive/ps16b500.zip
Apparently this site is a mirror of the 1999 technical CD-ROM.

User guide:
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/30384a.pdf

Regards,
Xiaofan


'[PIC]'
2006\08\14@085759 by J D
picon face
part 1 776 bytes content-type:text/plain; format=flowed (decoded quoted-printable)

Hi.

I have a rather big project that requires using a EEPROM since I need to use several thousand hex numbers to program a LCD module for different screens.

I want to use the 24xx128 part.  I figured I could purchase the SEEVAL 32 and that would do just fine, but the SEEVAL only takes in HEX32 format and it always loads the address along with the hex number when I import the file.

My question is what do other people use to program the EEPROM with when you have to load several thousand hex numbers in order to use a device?

Thanks,
Jim

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/



part 2 35 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
(decoded 7bit)

2006\08\14@160139 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
J D wrote:

> My question is what do other people use to program the EEPROM with when you
> have to load several thousand hex numbers in order to use a device?

You can use a universal programmer (or any other programmer that does
EEPROMs of the type you want to use), you can make your own quick PIC
firmware that programs the EEPROM from data that comes through the serial
port, or you can include that functionality into your project (easy if it
has a serial port or USB etc already).

Gerhard

2006\08\14@222030 by John Chung

picon face
I believe building your EEProm programmer is more
benificial since it is not that hard to do plus you
can customize to each EEProm chip out there.

John

--- Gerhard Fiedler <spamBeGonelistsspamRemoveMEconnectionbrazil.com>
wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\08\26@095120 by Todor Todorov

flavicon
face

Can anybody give me an EXACT working scheme of a programmer using RS232 interface for PIC18F6520, including example of conecting it to the PIC.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://ide.li/ - ïîðòàë çà áúëãàðèòå ïî ñâåòà. Ñòàòèè, íîâèíè, ôîðóìè, ñíèìêè, èíôîðìàöèÿ.

2006\08\26@104510 by peter green

flavicon
face

> Can anybody give me an EXACT working scheme of a programmer using
> RS232 interface for PIC18F6520, including example of conecting it
> to the PIC.
your hopefull, beginners tend to avoid pics that only come in TQFP and pros
tend to buy programmers (the ICD2 being very popular for development)

seriously though the connections should be the same as for any other PIC,

PGC,PGD -> programmer
VPP -> programmer and resistor to VDD
GND -> programmer and system ground
VDD -> system VDD and possiblly programmer (read instructions with
programmer to see if it expects to power the target, be powered by it or use
independent power).
PGM -> programmer if using LVP otherwise tied low (with a resistor if its
desired to use the pin for other stuff in normal operation)

any programmer that supports the new style pic18 series chips should work
but you may have to edit its device definitions file yourself to add the
details of your chip.


'[PIC]'
2006\09\03@180733 by fsdfsf sdfsdfsfsdf
flavicon
face
Hello,
I want to use an sx pic to increase my mips, I want an 80 Mips
speed at  the very minimum.
Which sx should I choose. Also, which programmer do
I need for it, and how can I transfer data from sx to pic - I plan
to have both of them talking to each other, using the pic for
usb work, and the sx for some very high speed data processing.
I am assuming sx does not have a usb chip like the 18f4550.
Thanks for any ideas.
p.s. where do I find datasheets for sx, what is the sx website?

2006\09\03@190143 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On 9/3/06, fsdfsf sdfsdfsfsdf <.....sxpicEraseMEspambtinternet.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I want to use an sx pic to increase my mips, I want an 80 Mips
> speed at  the very minimum.
> Which sx should I choose. Also, which programmer do
> I need for it, and how can I transfer data from sx to pic - I plan
> to have both of them talking to each other, using the pic for
> usb work, and the sx for some very high speed data processing.
> I am assuming sx does not have a usb chip like the 18f4550.
> Thanks for any ideas.
> p.s. where do I find datasheets for sx, what is the sx website?

Parallax distributes the SX (or Scenix) microcontroller. Start your
research with Google and at the Parallax site and you won't have to
ask so many basic questions. You're more apt to get a response if
people don't feel like they are reading the datasheet to you. Also,
you might want to use your name.

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\09\03@192143 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
As far as I know all SX can be driven at 75MHz, and somewhere I have read
that there will be a 100MHz one as well.
SX not just missing the USB interface but nearly all the others as well, so
I2C, USART or A/D for example. What they do is to emulate all of these
devices with software (or by adding other hardware components). If you need
that speed for digital processing then it is fine, however, for a USB
virtual interface you have to allocate quite a lot of MCU time. You can use
though one dedicated chip for the USB and another one for the digital
processing... But you may need to get a microprocessor instead.

The website is:
http://www.parallax.com/sx/index.asp

Tamas



On 03/09/06, fsdfsf sdfsdfsfsdf <spamsxpicspam_OUTspam@spam@btinternet.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\09\03@192747 by fsdfsf sdfsdfsfsdf

flavicon
face
Josh, I am asking for a recommendation on a micro controller
with a speed >= 80 mips. Surely you can do better than tell
me to go to Google?

2006\09\03@201234 by fsdfsf sdfsdfsfsdf

flavicon
face


Tamas Rudnai <spamtamas.rudnai@spam@spamSTOPspamgmail.com> wrote: As far as I know all SX can be driven at 75MHz, and somewhere I have read
that there will be a 100MHz one as well.
hi, I found it all, it is 75 Mips not MHz.

2006\09\03@202117 by Mike Singer

picon face
fsdfsf sdfsdfsfsdf wrote:
>  I am asking for a recommendation on a micro controller
> with a speed >= 80 mips. Surely you can do better than tell
> me to go to Google?

It's hard to just recomend a car with a speed 80 km/h; too long story
without specs.
Perhaps, LPC214x with USB 2.0 Full-speed on-board

---

2006\09\03@202814 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On 9/3/06, fsdfsf sdfsdfsfsdf <spamBeGonesxpicspamBeGonespam@spam@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Josh, I am asking for a recommendation on a micro controller
> with a speed >= 80 mips. Surely you can do better than tell
> me to go to Google?

I don't mean to be rude about this, but you've asked a number of
questions that have been answered in the past, both on this list and
on the web in general. My suggestion is to do more research before
asking. Questions about which SX you should choose aren't very good
when you don't specify what you want to do with it. There are very few
chips in the SX line, mainly dealing with the number of pins. The
choice should be very obvious once you look at the datasheets. I did a
Google search on "SX microcontroller" and the very first result is the
website for the SX.

When you ask questions like this it seems that you haven't done your
homework and checked on basic information yourself. This list is an
AMAZING resource...but everyone here is busy and has projects on the
go. If I sent out an email to 2000 people asking what website to go to
in order to see the BBC news, no one would respond.

Now, once you've perused the datasheets you _will_ have much more
relevant questions, and you'll more than likely get a relevant answer.
You may also want to poke around on the PICList website
(http://www.piclist.org) to learn more about inter-chip
communications. James also runs a similar site for the SX chips
(http://www.sxlist.org) that will help.

Dig through that stuff and come back - you'll have better questions
which will get better answers and it'll end up more useful for you. I
don't mean to be callous, but you have to realize that you're asking
2000 people to give you knowledge for free. Showing that you care
enough to try on your own will go a long ways to win them over. Asking
them to give information that you're too lazy to Google for is sort of
like saying "My time is more valuable than yours".

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\09\03@202929 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On 9/3/06, fsdfsf sdfsdfsfsdf <RemoveMEsxpicRemoveMEspamRemoveMEbtinternet.com> wrote:
> hi, I found it all, it is 75 Mips not MHz.

Actually, with the SX chips it's both. They run at one instruction per
clock cycle (for most instructions), so a 75MHz clock gets you 75
Mips.

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\09\03@205159 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
Mr. sdfsdfsdfsdf is no longer with the PICList.

I don't care if people use their real names, but "sdfsdfsdfsdf"? Come on!



---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
jamesnewtonKILLspamspamspampiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com





> {Original Message removed}

2006\09\03@221651 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 9/4/06, James Newton, Host <spam_OUTjamesnewton@spam@spampiclist.com> wrote:
> Mr. sdfsdfsdfsdf is no longer with the PICList.
>
> I don't care if people use their real names, but "sdfsdfsdfsdf"? Come on!

Yes James, you care. Like the others having some age. It's impolite
to use a fake name, but it's difficult to explain why.

greetings,
Vasile


'[PIC]'
2006\10\02@121652 by Francis T. Delahanty
flavicon
face
I am using the Microchip PKE Reference Design Kit (APGRD001) and I am trying
to change the behavior of the S2 (Unlock) output of the decoder board.  I
can see in mid.asm where I can make changes based on a button push from the
fob, but I can't find where to change the output based on a successful PKE
result.  Can anyone help?

2006\10\15@231631 by Thilo Klein

flavicon
face
To whom it might concern.

I am using FPP ( http://people.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj/fpp0943src.zip is
the source ).

According to the Thread being found at
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=193136 I am currently looking for
the 0x18 address respectively the BEGIN_PROGRAMMING variable. Where is
it to be found in fpp or is DarioG wrong and the reason for the
programmer not to program the 16F628A lies somewhere else ?

Regards T.K.

2006\10\16@003137 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
parallel answer: David Tait hardware (parallel one) works better with
ic-prog software: http://ic-prog.com Under windows need driver
activation.

On 10/16/06, Thilo Klein <TakeThisOuTostentativspam_OUTspamarcor.de> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -


'[PIC]'
2006\11\11@181846 by DAX2
picon face
I have a spotlight controller made for a DJ booth. We are using it to control
spots for an animated band. The problem is the controller has a "standby"
button which turns the spot array on and off. The unit defaults to "standby"
when powered up. This setup needs to be stand-alone. What I need to do is
program a PIC (I have a few 12F675's) to monitor the audio stream and the
"standby" LED signal (0-5v square wave, 50% Duty Cycle. It flashes when in
standby mode) and have the PIC toggle the standby button (on-off momentary)
when these conditions are active: If there is no music and the standby LED
is off then it should toggle it on. When there is music and the standby LED
is on, it again should toggle it. "Do nothing" situations are Music on, LED
off and Music off, LED on. In between songs if the controller is left out of
standby mode then the lights will take a random pattern. After all the songs
are done the lights will also stay on in a random number (it seems to latch
on the last ones that are lit and stays there). There are 12 spot lights.
Hence the need for toggling the button. I was going to use the ADC of the
12F675 to detect the audio but from the documentation, it says that won't
work. I plan to use the comparator (CMCON - CM0, CM1) to test for the LED
status and the comparator interrupt flag (CMIF) to indicate when the LED is
on. Once read I can reset the bit in the program. I could use some help in the audio detection area. The audio signal is coming from the audio output of a standard home DVD player. I haven't scoped it but I assume it's in the area of a volt or so.

Also, one of our robots has eyes that can move side to side and the small board that works the RC solenoid has a PIC chip on it, but it doesn't work. The company that made these automatons, The Robot Factory, has no idea what the program is for this PIC. It's just supposed to move the eyes randomly side to side within a 90 degree arc. Anybody know of a quick program that will accomplish this using the '675??

2006\11\11@183656 by Jan-Erik Söderholm

face picon face
1. Add an subject.
2. Re-format so it can be read by an human...
3. Then try again...

Jan-Erik.



KILLspamdax2.....spamTakeThisOuThotmail.com skrev:
{Quote hidden}

2006\11\11@230336 by Gaston Gagnon

face
flavicon
face
Hi Thilo,
If you are still looking to program the PIC16F628A with a David Tait's
type programmer and his FPP software, read further.

Thilo Klein wrote:
> To whom it might concern.
>
> I am using FPP ( http://people.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj/fpp0943src.zip is
> the source ).
>
>
>  
Programming the PIC16F628A is done in two steps: Erase then Program.

PROCEDURE TO ERASE 628A WITH FPP:
Uncheck Config and press the Erase button.
That is it

PROCEDURE TO PROGRAM THE 628A WITH FPP:
1) Uncheck "Config" and press Program button. This programs both memory:
program
  and data but NOT the Configuration word.

2) To program the Configuration word,  check "Config" and press Program
once more.

That worked for me.
Gaston Gagnon


'[PIC]'
2007\01\15@080440 by Peter Grosvenor
flavicon
face
Posted this to Oshonsoft.com but had no reply in over a week. Can anyone answer please.

Have been using Dontronics DT001 parallel PIC programmer with 16F84A PICS using MELabs PicCompiler and P16PRO (PICALL) for a while now and had no problems to date. Found Oshonsoft site and downloaded PIC Simulator IDE, looks fantastic. Wrote a short program below to check it worked (MELabs Pic Compiler commands HIGH and LOW only works on PIC pins of port B). But found when run : - On the third pass through the loop there is a longer delay than the previous 2 loops? This seems a very odd result? Question. Is the HEX code produced suitable for use with the PICALL Programmer I am Using. i.e. Is hex code produced standard from all different Compiler/assemblers. Do I have to use a different programmer hardware and/or software?

' target PIC = 16F84A

loop:

High PORTA.0

WaitMs 300

Low PORTA.0

WaitMs 300

Goto loop

End

Peter

Australia

TakeThisOuTpgrosvenEraseMEspamRemoveMEnetspace.net.au

2007\01\15@153339 by peter green

flavicon
face

> Have been using Dontronics DT001 parallel PIC programmer with
> 16F84A PICS using MELabs PicCompiler and P16PRO (PICALL) for a
> while now and had no problems to date. Found Oshonsoft site and
> downloaded PIC Simulator IDE, looks fantastic. Wrote a short
> program below to check it worked (MELabs Pic Compiler commands
> HIGH and LOW only works on PIC pins of port B). But found when
> run : - On the third pass through the loop there is a longer
> delay than the previous 2 loops? This seems a very odd result?
you havn't left the watchdog timer enabled have you (assuming that the pic you are simulating has one that is)



'[PIC]'
2007\03\05@011545 by Anhar Risnumawan
picon face
I build programmer on the Myke's site (El-Cheapo Programmer) and the
clock line get wizzling, could anyone tell me why?

2007\03\05@023451 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 3/5/07, Anhar Risnumawan <spam_OUTantong123RemoveMEspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
> I build programmer on the Myke's site (El-Cheapo Programmer) and the
> clock line get wizzling, could anyone tell me why?

What means "wizzling" in your assumption  ?


'[PIC]'
2007\05\25@155708 by Carolina Dieguez
picon face
A Visual Basic Application is sending to my PIC circuit a string 'a'.
How can I recognize letter 'a' is being received by my PIC 16F873A??

Can my PIC read strings or identify this "a" in another way?

I need to know whether I'm receiving an "a" because if this is so, I
must enable an interruption.

Many thanks in advace for your help and support.

Carolina.

2007\05\25@161043 by PAUL James

picon face

Carolina,

Just do a comparison of what you receive versus the Ascii code for "a".
You can do this several ways,
But I would subtract one from the other, and then check the "Z" flag in
the STATUS register.  If after
The subtraction, the "Z" flag is a "1", they are the same and you have
indeed received an "a".  If the
"Z" flag is not a "1", then you have received something other than an
"a", so you can continue what you
Were doing.  Hope this helps.



Regards,

       
Jim

{Original Message removed}

2007\05\25@163334 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
What language ?
Assembler, C or anything else ?

Jan-Erik.


Carolina Dieguez wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\05\25@165752 by Carolina Dieguez

picon face
Assembler

On 5/25/07, Jan-Erik Soderholm <spamjan-erik.soderholmKILLspamspamKILLspamtelia.com> wrote:
> What language ?
> Assembler, C or anything else ?
>
> Jan-Erik.
>
>
> Carolina Dieguez wrote:
> > A Visual Basic Application is sending to my PIC circuit a string 'a'.
> > How can I recognize letter 'a' is being received by my PIC 16F873A??
> >
> > Can my PIC read strings or identify this "a" in another way?
> >
> > I need to know whether I'm receiving an "a" because if this is so, I
> > must enable an interruption.
> >
> > Many thanks in advace for your help and support.
> >
> > Carolina.
>
> -

2007\05\25@170058 by Carolina Dieguez

picon face
Jim, many thanks. As you already noticed I'm a beginner...
I'll try what you suggest and let you all know the results.

Regards,
            Caro.

On 5/25/07, PAUL James <spamJames.Paulspam_OUTspamcolibrys.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}


'[PIC]'
2007\06\23@164231 by Carolina Dieguez
picon face
Hi all!

Some of you know in which cases an ADC converter block in a PIC
16F873A can stop working???
In case this block is damaged, which would be the output when
receiving an analog signal??
Could it be possible have all "0" as output, no matter the signal to convert is?

Thanks to anyone who can help me in my learning process!
Have all a nice weekend,
                                  Carolina.


'[PIC]'
2007\07\16@191719 by Carolina Dieguez
picon face
Hi,
   As you always help me with my first questions about pics, I have
to bother you all again:o)

   Is it possible in a PIC 16F873 to produce a "time out" within 30
seconds? I mean, is there a good way of having a counter for these 30
seconds??

     Thanks!!!

2007\07\17@011928 by Rikard Bosnjakovic

picon face
On 17/07/07, Carolina Dieguez <STOPspamcaro.dieguezspam_OUTspamspamBeGonegmail.com> wrote:

>     Is it possible in a PIC 16F873 to produce a "time out" within 30
> seconds? I mean, is there a good way of having a counter for these 30
> seconds??

Yes.

You don't however write about your application, but if you want a
simple 30 second delay, use this webpage:
http://www.piclist.com/cgi-bin/delay.exe


--
- Rikard - http://bos.hack.org/cv/

2007\07\25@075418 by Asad Sharif

picon face

I want know how can I use PIC floating point math library
(multiplication & addition) with PIC 16F877A asm code. I really need it.

Thanks
Asad

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now!
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

2007\07\25@091926 by scott larson

picon face
> I want know how can I use PIC floating point math library
> (multiplication & addition) with PIC 16F877A asm code. I really need it.
>


http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1824&appnote=en010961

AN575
Title:        IEEE 754 Compliant Floating Point Routines

Try that application on the microchip website. It's got some good examples.

-Scott


'[PIC]'
2007\08\13@195029 by Brian
flavicon
face
HI,

I am new at this and I am looking for some code that will turn off the
output on selected pins for the 12f629. I need I want it to operate with one
push button, I am going to run 2 leds each a different color. The push
button will control the LEDS, 1st press red is on, 2nd press blue is on red
is off, 3rd press both are on, and then press the button for a second or so
and the PIC shuts down. I am not sure how to set this up.



Thanks



Brian

2007\08\24@121303 by Sara

picon face
Hi,
 
 I'll be so thankful if you answer my question:
 
 How can I program a Manchester  Encoder and decoder in PIC microcontroller?
 (There isn't any preferance for programming language , it can be C or Assembly.)
 
 The Microcontroller that we are gonna use is a PIC30F.
 
 
 
 
 Bests,
 Sara

     
---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.

2007\08\24@140532 by Ravi

flavicon
face
Sara wrote:

>  I'll be so thankful if you answer my question:
>  
>  How can I program a Manchester  Encoder and decoder in PIC microcontroller?
>  (There isn't any preferance for programming language , it can be C or Assembly.)
>  
>  The Microcontroller that we are gonna use is a PIC30F.
>
You can use any I/O line with bit banging as per the format required.

Cheers

Ravi

2007\08\24@151304 by Sara

picon face
I mean what the encoder/decoder code should be

Ravi <spam_OUTchiptechspamspamBeGonevsnl.com> wrote:  Sara wrote:

> I'll be so thankful if you answer my question:
>
> How can I program a Manchester Encoder and decoder in PIC microcontroller?
> (There isn't any preferance for programming language , it can be C or Assembly.)
>
> The Microcontroller that we are gonna use is a PIC30F.
>
You can use any I/O line with bit banging as per the format required.

Cheers

Ravi

2007\08\24@153203 by Marcel Birthelmer

picon face
Sara,
Have you actually done any work toward solving this problem? You're
not expecting a complete solution to be handed to you, I hope.
- Marcel

On 8/24/07, Sara <EraseMEsara_n3spamKILLspamyahoo.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\08\24@170026 by Sara

picon face
Sure. Actually it's part of my work that I'm doing. We need this encoder/decoder for a wireless modem, whic has a RF module that transmit only manchester code, so we must code the data in manchester mode. I also googled and found some chips, which do this work, but I'm not sure about the interface of this chip and our PIC. also they must support 1 Mbp data rate.
 I got confused and don't know if we can do this work by software on PIC or not. i don't have many experience in this field.

Marcel Birthelmer <.....marcelb.listsspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
 Sara,
Have you actually done any work toward solving this problem? You're
not expecting a complete solution to be handed to you, I hope.
- Marcel

On 8/24/07, Sara wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\08\24@171134 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
Sara wrote:

> I'm not sure about the interface of this chip and our PIC. also they

Nordic 2401 work @1Mbps and have SPI interface, easily done on most PIC
in either Hardware or software.

> must support 1 Mbp data rate. I got confused and don't know if we can
> do this work by software on PIC or not.

Yes, it has to be done in software.
That's why a SPI interface as mentioned above would be easier - just
maybe a bit more expensive the hardware.

--
Ciao, Dario
--
ADPM Synthesis sas - Torino
--
http://www.adpm.tk


'[PIC]'
2007\09\03@134201 by Tom Page
flavicon
face
Hi

Up until now I've been using assembly language for programming 16F84s
and I'm now moving to using C for the hitech PICC Lite compiler suite
that's distributed with MPLab IDE 7.62.  Do you know of any web sites
that have circuit construction and programming exercises that'll help
with programming in hitech C?

Kind Regards

Tom





2007\09\03@141427 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


>-----Original Message-----
>From: @spam@piclist-bouncesEraseMEspamspammit.edu [piclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspamKILLspammit.edu]
>On Behalf Of Tom Page
>Sent: 03 September 2007 18:42
>To: RemoveMEpiclistTakeThisOuTspammit.edu
>Subject: [PIC]
>
>
>Hi
>
>Up until now I've been using assembly language for programming
>16F84s and I'm now moving to using C for the hitech PICC Lite
>compiler suite that's distributed with MPLab IDE 7.62.  Do you
>know of any web sites that have circuit construction and
>programming exercises that'll help with programming in hitech C?


<http://www.microchipc.com>

Regards

Mike

=======================================================================
This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The
information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by
law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must
not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any
person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have
received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use,
forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.
No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or
services.
=======================================================================

2007\09\03@230428 by John Chung

picon face
If you know assembly and now starting with C. Try to
get the compiler to output asm listing. Just follow it
from there and you would be fine.

John


--- Tom Page <@spam@T.PageSTOPspamspamlboro.ac.uk> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --


'[PIC]'
2007\12\24@000031 by pat
flavicon
face
Hello.
I have a question about the flashing and erasing of program space
on a pic18F.

I'm writing a custom bootloader and my current routine does an erase of a
block before re-programming it.  It currently checks the 64 byte block to
see if any fuses have been blown (ie..bytes not FF).  If all bytes in the
block are FF--then we dont need to erase the block.  I did this due to the
18F's limited number of erase/program cycles.

My question IS....is this logic needed?
IE....if I erase a block that is already erased (FF)..
does it do anything 'phyically' to reduce the lifespan of the device?
If erasing a block that is blank doesnt DO anything...then I'm just
wasting
code and cycles for a routine I dont need.

I got this idea..from the notes in the specs that says flashing a byte
that is FF has no-effect...ie...not blowing any fuses.

I assume the 10K life is talking about the blowing and 're-setting'
of fuses...so erase a blank block, or programming with a byte = FF
SHOULD have NO EFFECT on the device and not count toward that 10K limit..

can anyone confirm that??

Thank you.

Pat O'Toole

2007\12\30@170313 by Robin Abbott

flavicon
face
Hi,

How many times do you need to reprogram it? 10K is a significant number (or
are you storing data there) ! An all FF block when erased will have no
effect on the life as I understand it.

As a matter of interest in the early days of F devices I set a 16F84A with a
prog life quoted as 1K cycles doing a loop on a programmer we were
developing, it programmed random data and then verified. I lost interest
after about 22K cycles as I remember which was quite a few days and it was
still going strong.


Robin Abbott
Forest Electronics - Home of WIZ-C ANSI C Compiler for PIC's with RAD Front
end
TakeThisOuTrobin.abbottTakeThisOuTspamRemoveMEfored.co.uk
http://www.fored.co.uk


{Original Message removed}


'[PIC]'
2008\01\11@155916 by Christopher Cole
flavicon
face
I am using ctags in gvim to navigate some PIC asm source code that I have
inherited :-/

For the most part, ctags is working very well, and it is saving me a lot of
time learning this code.  However, ctags is not picking up some definitions.
Has anyone been able to configure ctags to properly parse PIC asm code?  It
seems to work for the most part, except for variable declarations made in the
.asm file, for example:

decl bank0, varname, 1

However, ctags picks these types of declarations up if they are made in an
include or header file.

Macro definitions aren't being picked up.
Constant declarations are also not being picked up:

constant constname = 1

Can anyone shed some insight on configuring ctags to produce a better tags
file for PIC asm users?

Thanks,
-Chris

--
| Christopher Cole, Cole Design and Development               spam_OUTcolespamspam.....coledd.com |
| Embedded Software Development and Electronic Design       http://coledd.com |
| Akron, Ohio, USA                                               800-518-2154 |

2008\01\11@165513 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
Hi Chris,

For me, the following works perfect:

ctags --langmap="Asm:.asm.inc" *.asm *.inc

Regards,
Tamas


On Jan 11, 2008 8:47 PM, Christopher Cole <cole.....spam@spam@coledd.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -


'[PIC]'
2008\02\16@170516 by wouter van ooijen
face picon face
I use PICs in classes. The PICs are on a PCB, but otherwise unprotected.
The students buy the PCBs, so they can work at home. Informatics
students can not be expected to know much about static electricity, so
for all I know they might use it to comb their cat's hairs. I have hadd
some pretty weird failures previous years, so it might be a good idea to
put some form of protection on all PIC pins. My idea is a resistor to
ground for each pin, but what value? Would 1M be sufficient, or should
it be lower?

And what about the one pins that probably won't like any load, even 1M:
the oscillator input?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2008\02\16@172114 by David Novak

picon face
Series resistance would server you better for ESD protection. Most low
frequency signals could handle 1K in series, but even 100 Ohms would help.
Options are quite limited on other pins like the oscillator input.

Is it possible to put the PCB into an enclosure? That way, all internal
signals would not be an issue. You would only need to protect the signals
that made their way out the enclosure.

David



> {Original Message removed}

2008\02\16@182826 by Funny NYPD

picon face
Interesting, how could a PCB becomes a comb? You must have special shape designed on your PCB. Won't the pins on chips hurt the skin? Some DIP package has very sharp pins. Just curious.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com



{Original Message removed}

2008\02\17@041925 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> Series resistance would server you better for ESD protection.

Are you sure? That does not seem logical to me.

> Is it possible to put the PCB into an enclosure?

not practical. Adds siggnificantly to the cost, and too many connectors
that would need to be accessible.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2008\02\17@072440 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Feb 17, 2008 5:20 PM, wouter van ooijen <EraseMEwouter.....spamvoti.nl> wrote:
> > Series resistance would server you better for ESD protection.
>
> Are you sure? That does not seem logical to me.

Why not logical? A series resistor can help protect the MCU
quite effectively. If you want better protection, maybe ESD
protection devices can help.
http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/03/ARG/dunnihoo.html

Xiaofan

2008\02\17@113250 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> > Are you sure? That does not seem logical to me.
>
> Why not logical? A series resistor can help protect the MCU
> quite effectively.

In my head I model ESD as a small C capacitor charged to a large
voltage, suddenly placed over two (randomly chosen) IC pins. High
voltage means that a series resistor has very little influence on the
voltage caused internally, unless an internal low-impedance path (to the
other pin) exists. Cmos == high input impedance == no such path?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2008\02\17@115826 by David Novak

picon face
The protection diodes on each pin will make them low impedance to high
voltage ESD. The goal with ESD is to provide enough resistance that the
current is forced through another (lower impedance) path to ground.

This will be difficult with the entire PIC accessible. No matter what
protection method you choose, it could be easily circumvented when ESD is
applied directly to the pin.

You might try using a zener on each pin, but these are usually too slow.
Spark gaps may also be effective.

David


> {Original Message removed}

2008\02\17@192726 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 2/16/08, wouter van ooijen <spamwouterKILLspamspam@spam@voti.nl> wrote:
> I use PICs in classes. The PICs are on a PCB, but otherwise unprotected.
> The students buy the PCBs, so they can work at home. Informatics
> students can not be expected to know much about static electricity, so
> for all I know they might use it to comb their cat's hairs. I have hadd
> some pretty weird failures previous years, so it might be a good idea to
> put some form of protection on all PIC pins. My idea is a resistor to
> ground for each pin, but what value? Would 1M be sufficient, or should
> it be lower?
>
> And what about the one pins that probably won't like any load, even 1M:
> the oscillator input?

Your luck is that both you and yours students are living in The Netherlands.
If you'll protect with 1M for ESD in the US, will be useless. (in fact
be glad you're not living at NY, believe me, I'm here from one week
and I'm anxious to leave...)

1M to the ground will be not good and not bad. A student will always
find a good way to fry the PIC. Here we have used series resistors and
small capacitors to ground. But you can't use those on *all* pic pins.
So, use a socket, do not protect anything and sell them hundreds of PIC's.

Vasile

2008\02\17@194628 by John Gardner

picon face
Culture shock, Vasile ?   :)

I had the same reaction the first time I went to NY.

Not everybody is equipped to live in a zoo...

best regards,  Jack

On 2/17/08, Vasile Surducan <piclist9spamspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\02\17@195314 by peter green

flavicon
face

> not practical. Adds siggnificantly to the cost, and too many connectors
> that would need to be accessible.
>  
A half way house between bare board and complete enclosure is to mount
the PCB on a base, the bottom of the board is likely to be placed on all
sorts of surfaces and likely to rub over them. The top being upwards
when in use and having tall components sticking out above most
electrical stuff is at much less risk IMO. Also giving the students some
kind of box to store the device in is probablly a good idea.

here in the EEE departement at the university of manchester they mount
the student microcontroller and IO boards on PVC bases (the IO board
also has a metal cover but that board doesn't have any ICs on anyway)
and give the user a bacon box to store it in and they don't seem to have
too many problems.


2008\02\22@124448 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 10:06 PM, wouter van ooijen <TakeThisOuTwouter@spam@spam@spam@voti.nl> wrote:

> students can not be expected to know much about static electricity, so
> for all I know they might use it to comb their cat's hairs. I have hadd
>

No... it should not be a problem, just come across at this pic :-)
http://picasaweb.google.com/szilvasyz/USBJoyPilots/photo#5169855447808704578

Tamas

2008\02\29@164548 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
Unless you prevent them from touching the pins themselves, you can't
do much.  Even series or parallel resistors aren't going to help that
much.  Zeners and other surge suppression devices might help, but
they're going to cost you.  Here are some other ideas you might
consider:

Place a large, obvious ground trace around the perimeter of the board,
unmasked  with silkscreen, "TOUCH HERE FIRST".  Place a similar
unmasked ground guard around the processor.

Socket the processor, and add a button (and software to implement the
button's functionality) to the programming software: "VERIFY BOARD"
which loads a program into the PIC and tests all possible
functionality of the board and processor.  Make sure it instructs the
students to disconnect the board from anything else in case testing
the I/O has unintended consequences.  Perhaps make some sockets that
plug into the headers to act as a loop-back device for testing the
I/O.

Skip all that and instead use a silicone conformal coat spray to coat
the PCB.  Use masking if you want to avoid coating contact points,
buttons, knobs, etc.  Add the recommended ESD protection to each user
accessable pin (zener/resistor).
http://www.ellsworth.com/display/productdetail.html?productid=1810

Use surface mount, mount everything to the bottom, and add a dollar's
worth of standoffs, hardware, and a sheet of plastic.  Mount the PCB
onto the plastic so the electronic parts are not easily accessible.
Ground pour on top.

Make the assembly so cheap (ie, BBB arduino, for instance) that
replacing the entire unit is a no-brainer and doesn't hit the
pocketbook of the student too hard.  Make sure there's an easy way to
test whether it's functional or broken, as above.

Use I/O driver chips that have the built in ESD protection.  Socket them.

Ground pour both sides, unmask the ground pour, and seperate tracks so
that it's much more likely the fingers and other objects will contact
ground before anything else.  Keep in mind that static shocks will go
through mask (IIRC, it only takes about 2-7kV to breach typical mask).

Make little metal shields that cover the important bits with tabs that
go through grounded, plated holes in the board and then twist, bend,
or solder to hold in place. Add ESD protection on anything coming out
from under the shied.  Should be able to make them with tin snips,
forming them on the edge of the desktop, or pretty cheaply by a metal
shop with a turret punch and sheet metal bending form in small
quantities.  They may also be found as COTS items if you search and
layout your board to match.  Long lead time, but maybe emachineshop or
http://www.ponoko.com/ can build something here inexpensively.

http://www.ponoko.com/ might be able to make very cheap build it
yourself enclosures.

Redesign the board to fit into a common snack tin or box, and instruct
students to install it into the appropriate housing to avoid having to
buy replacements due to ESD failure.

Install series and parallel resistors anyway to avoid overvoltage and
short issues that are bound to cause similar undetectable issues.
They won't provide much protection for ESD, but they're cheap and will
solve a raft of other problems.

Realize that the product is not suitable for the target market, bite
the bullet, and use a case.  Sell it without the case for cheaper, but
with no (or a much more limited) warranty.

Allow students with limited means to pay for their units by fixing and
testing broken units.

Um... I think that's it for this brainstorming session.

-Adam

On 2/16/08, wouter van ooijen <TakeThisOuTwouterspamspamvoti.nl> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\02\29@165450 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
Guess I wasn't done...

Cut static bags into squares that just cover the insteresting areas of
the board, and then hot glue them at 4 or more points so they act as
cheap shielding.  If students come back with missing, ripped, hole-y,
or otherwise visibily damaged static plastic then you can ding them
when you do 'warranty' repairs.  It need not be electrically connected
to the PCB, though a screw and nut with a plated hole could accomplish
that if desired.

-Adam

On 2/29/08, M. Adam Davis <KILLspamstienmanKILLspamspamspamBeGonegmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}


'[PIC]'
2008\03\02@114832 by wouter van ooijen
face picon face
> Unless you prevent them from touching the pins themselves,
> you can't do much.

But you comment did not stop at that, and I like it a lot, thanks!

I am not sure yet what I will do for the next class (due in september).
Current idea is standoffs and a wooden baseplate. The target PIC chip is
already socketed, and cheap to replace (16F887). Most trouble was with
the 18F2550 pickit2-clone chip, which is already SMD and on the bottom,
so adding a baseplate might be enough. A minor problem would be
reflashing that chip, maybe I'll put a (female!) pickit2 connector on
the top side for that purpose.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2008\03\02@181446 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Mar 2, 2008, at 8:48 AM, wouter van ooijen wrote:

> I am not sure yet what I will do for the next class (due in  
> september).
> Current idea is standoffs and a wooden baseplate.

Nice baseplates might be made from composite flooring material.  
It's  thinner and "prettier" (without finishing) than plain wood, and  
might be cheaper.  (I bought the "slightly damaged" packs with  
squished corners from Ikea when I made these bookshelves: <
homepage.mac.com/westfw/PhotoAlbum34.html> ...)

If you're buying bare PCBs in huge quantities, an unpopulated PCB  
might make a good baseplate...

BillW

2008\03\03@003237 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 3/2/08, wouter van ooijen <wouter@spam@spamKILLspamvoti.nl> wrote:
> > Unless you prevent them from touching the pins themselves,
> > you can't do much.
>
> But you comment did not stop at that, and I like it a lot, thanks!

Unfortunately the ESD discharge is not only touching pins... I never
believe the ESD problems which US guys are talking about until I
didn't see it with my own eyes. I've been able to generate sparks of
about 5cm (2 inch long) in the lab (ESD protected room) only because
of clothes. Changing clothes with appropiate type solved all the
problems.

You have to teach your students about ESD and manipulating electronic
stuff and not protect device from them, it's awrong way (at least
that's my opinion) no matter how much extra work will cost you.

Vasile

2008\03\19@173101 by James Salisbury

flavicon
face
Hi,
Do any of the PICs have JTAG / Boundary Scan ports?

Thanks

2008\03\19@175437 by Jeff Zentner

flavicon
face
I believe the PIC 24 parts do because there is a jtag port on the Explorer
16 board.

Jeff Zentner

-----Original Message-----
From: EraseMEpiclist-bouncesRemoveMEspam@spam@mit.edu [RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesspamspamEraseMEmit.edu]On Behalf
Of James Salisbury
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 1:31 PM
To: STOPspampiclist.....spammit.edu
Subject: [PIC]


Hi,
Do any of the PICs have JTAG / Boundary Scan ports?

Thanks

2008\03\19@211857 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 3/20/08, Jeff Zentner <spamBeGonejeff.zentnerRemoveMEspamRemoveMEhighsierraelectronics.com> wrote:
>> Do any of the PICs have JTAG / Boundary Scan ports?
>>
> I believe the PIC 24 parts do because there is a jtag port on the Explorer
> 16 board.
>

But it is not really working for debug as none of the Microchip tools
support JTAG debugging for PIC24/dsPIC33. And I do not know
if any 3rd party tools support it.

PIC32 is said to support JTAG debugging but you need to buy
(potentially expensive) 3rd party JTAG debuggers. Microchip
tools do not direct support JTAG.

You may want to read more info from this thread.
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=295040


Xiaofan


'[PIC]'
2008\08\15@112407 by Jason Hsu
picon face
I have a PICSTART Plus programmer with a serial port.

So far, I have used MPLAB in Windows to program microcontrollers in
Assembly language.

What are my options for programming microcontrollers in Assembly
language with Damn Small Linux as the OS?

What are my options for programming microcontrollers in C with Damn
Small Linux as the OS?

--
Jason Hsu
http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt.html
www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt-source_code.txt
NOTE: I am seeking employment as an embedded electronics engineer.

2008\08\15@113715 by Shawn Tan

flavicon
face
On Friday 15 August 2008 16:23:42 Jason Hsu wrote:
> What are my options for programming microcontrollers in C with Damn
> Small Linux as the OS?

If it can install applications from the regular debian repositories, you may
be able to get gputils and sdcc installed.

Otherwise, you will likely need to install a whole bunch of other tools in
order to build the actual PIC tools. By that time, your Linux installation
would not longer be "damn small".

So, I would recommend that you use one of the popular Linux distributions
where the tools are already pre-built.

--
with metta,
Shawn Tan

Aeste Works (M) Sdn Bhd - Engineering Elegance
http://www.aeste.net

2008\08\15@113834 by Byron Jeff

flavicon
face
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 11:23:42AM -0400, Jason Hsu wrote:
> I have a PICSTART Plus programmer with a serial port.
>
> So far, I have used MPLAB in Windows to program microcontrollers in
> Assembly language.
>
> What are my options for programming microcontrollers in Assembly
> language with Damn Small Linux as the OS?

Google is your friend. picstart and linux leads to picp. You can find it
here:

http://home.pacbell.net/theposts/picmicro

As for assembly, the gputils are the gold standard:

http://gputils.sourceforge.net

> What are my options for programming microcontrollers in C with Damn
> Small Linux as the OS?

The open source C compiler is sdcc:

http://sdcc.sourceforge.net

Hi-tech also as a lite version of their C compiler. It does no optimization
but otherwise is the full product. You can download it here:

http://microchip.htsoft.com/products/compilers/piccpro-modes.php

DSL isn't wholly difference from any other Linux distrubtion. I can't
remember though if it carries the GCC compiler by default.

Hope this helps.

BAJ


'[PIC]'
2009\01\17@203217 by Stephen D. Barnes
flavicon
face
Don't know if this should be in the PIC tag or not. I am working with
the dsPIC30F2010 and writing a Visual Basic 6.0 user interface for my
project. Doe anyone know where I might be able to find "free" or
"freeware" gauge style controls for VB6? All I can find are packages for
more money than I want to spend for at home hobby projects. Thanks for
any help!

--
Regards,
Stephen D. Barnes



2009\01\17@232749 by cdb

flavicon
face


:: Doe anyone know where I might be able to find "free" or
:: "freeware" gauge style controls for VB6? All I can find are
:: packages for
:: more money than I want to spend for at home hobby projects. Thanks
:: for
:: any help!

I think I saw something about this in an issue of Elektor, though it
might have been for VB or C# - I know I've seen such a thing
somewhere.

Colin
--
cdb, @spam@colinspamBeGonespambtech-online.co.uk on 18/01/2009

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

Hosted by:  http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359






2009\01\17@235245 by Stephen D. Barnes

flavicon
face
cdb wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Thanks for the reply. I noticed that in haste, I forgot to put anything
after the [PIC] tag. Will re-post properly.

--
Regards,
Stephen D. Barnes



2009\01\18@022438 by Richard Prosser

picon face
2009/1/18 Stephen D. Barnes <spamstephendbarnesspamspamspamcavtel.net>:
{Quote hidden}

It's not VB although it's somewhat similar to Qbasic etc. but I use
easycontrol. <http://thebyteworks.com/easycontrol/index.html>  cost
about $35 but there is a demo version available so you can try it
first. I can't remember what the demo limits you to but think it might
be a limited run time per session.

RP


'[PIC]'
2009\06\10@162816 by Dave Janne
flavicon
face
I am fairly new at this, but here goes-
I am having trouble with the dip switch when set to "1"
It sometimes times for 1 sec, and other times it does not shut off.
i don't seem to have any problems with the 2 thru 0 settings.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks- Dave


;    Notes:    On power up, this turns on GP5 for 0-9 seconds        
       ;        
;              per setting of BCD
switch.                                  ;          

;    Pin assignments:GP0 - Input from BCD switch "1" bit    "pulled
high"                   ;
;                      GP1 - Input from BCD switch "2" bit    "pulled
high"                   ;
;                    GP2 - Input from BCD switch "4" bit    "pulled
high"                   ;
;                    GP3 - Input from BCD switch "8" bit    "pulled
high"                   ;
;                    GP5 - Output to solenoid driver              
           ;


;    list      p=12F508            ; list directive to define processor
   #include <p12F508.inc>        ; processor specific variable definitions
   __CONFIG   _MCLRE_OFF & _CP_OFF & _WDT_OFF & _IntRC_OSC

;Variable Definitions:
cblock    0x07
       COUNT    
       D1
       D2
       D3
       
endc
   

;**************************************************************************

           org        0x000
           movwf   OSCCAL          ; update register with factory cal
value
           clrf     GPIO            ;all outputs=0
           movlw    b'11001111'
           tris     GPIO            ;GP0-3 inputs, GP4-5 outputs
           goto    START

DELAY        movlw    b'00100000'
           movwf    GPIO            ;turn on GPIO bit 5
           movlw    0x07
           movwf    D1                ;start of 1 sec delay loop
           movlw     0x2F
           movwf    D2
           movlw    0x03
           movwf    D3                
DELAY_0        decfsz    D1,f            
           goto    $+2
           decfsz    D2,f
           goto    $+2    
           decfsz    D3,f            
           goto    DELAY_0            ;end of 1 sec delay loop
           goto    DEC1

START        movf    GPIO,0            ;move GPIO to w
           movwf    COUNT            ;move w to COUNT
           movlw    0Fh                ;put 0Fh in w
           xorwf    COUNT,1            ;xor w with COUNT to mask

TEST        movf    COUNT,1            ;test COUNT for zero    
           btfss    STATUS,2        ;skip  if zero
           call    DELAY            ;delay 1 sec if not zero
           goto    OUT_OFF

DEC1        decfsz    COUNT,1
           goto    TEST

OUT_OFF        movlw    b'00000000'        
           movwf    GPIO            ;turn off GPIO bit 5            

           end                     ; directive 'end of program'

2009\06\10@170218 by olin piclist

face picon face
Dave Janne wrote:
> I am fairly new at this,

New to email or not, it's not hard to understand that messages should be
given meaningful subject lines.

> I am having trouble with the dip switch

What DIP switch?  This is the first you mentioned one.

> when set to "1" It sometimes times for 1 sec,

DIP switches don't time anything.

> and other times it does not shut off.

Then perhaps it's broken.  What did you find when you checked the signal
with a scope or the switch with a ohmmeter?

> i don't seem to have any problems with the 2 thru 0 settings.

What 2-0 settings?

> Any help would be appreciated.

Even you should be able to see that there is nowhere near enough context for
your post to be anything more than gibberish.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\06\10@173103 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:28:14 -0400, "Dave Janne"
<TakeThisOuTdjannespamspamsteubenelectronics.com> said:

> OUT_OFF        movlw    b'00000000'        
>             movwf    GPIO            ;turn off GPIO bit 5            
>
>             end                     ; directive 'end of program'

Hi Dave,

There's nothing stopping your program at the end. You need an endless
loop or a sleep or something to keep from running through memory
executing randomly.

Also do you have pullups or pulldowns on your input switches? I assume
you do but just making sure.

Cheers,

Bob

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service.

2009\06\10@212703 by Dave Janne

flavicon
face
As Olin so kindly pointed out, I misspoke when referring to the "dip"
switch.
I meant the "BCD" switch as referenced in the listing.


Olin Lathrop wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\06\11@103948 by Dave Janne

flavicon
face
That was it!
OUT_OFF        movlw     b'00000000'      
                        movwf     GPIO                ;turn off GPIO
bit 5          
                        goto         OUT_OFF
                        end                                    ;
directive 'end of program'


I feel like a dummy for not seeing that.

Thanks for the help.
Dave

Bob Blick wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\06\11@105225 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Dave Janne
<EraseMEdjanneEraseMEspamsteubenelectronics.com>wrote:

> That was it!
> OUT_OFF        movlw     b'00000000'
>                         movwf     GPIO                ;turn off GPIO
> bit 5
>                          goto         OUT_OFF
>                          end                                    ;
> directive 'end of program'
>

It does not make all the differences after all, but I think it is more
'elegant' :

        movlw     b'00000000'
        movwf     GPIO                ;turn off GPIO
bit 5
         goto      $   ; this is an endless loop...
        end

or even like this:

        movlw     b'00000000'
        movwf     GPIO                ;turn off GPIO
bit 5
        sleep
         goto      $-1   ; this is an endless loop with power saving...
         end

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\06\11@124748 by Dave Janne

flavicon
face
Very nice!
Thanks for the tips!

Tamas Rudnai wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\06\11@155837 by Jinx

face picon face
> I feel like a dummy for not seeing that.

I just noticed that you have pull-ups on the BCD lines, => the XOR is
complementing an inverted input. So AND is not appropriate, unless
you are incrementing a loop up to 0x0f (or 0 by adding 0xf0)


'[PIC]'
2011\02\26@151144 by Bob Blick
face
flavicon
face
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 11:55 -0800, "DIN ROFIE"  wrote:

> hey,
> i really need help on pic16f877 using mplab
> previously,i only play along with pic 16f84
> i intend to create a program like a temperature controller
> 1. set temperature
> 2.if temperature inside box exceeding set temperature heater will off
> below i send along the flow chart and the circuit of the design
> hope you guys can help me about this program with fully write program or
> any
> info
> thanks

Hi Din,

Please describe the user interface and also the input sensor and output
actuator.

I assume you are programming in assembly but you should confirm what
language.

If this is a school assignment you should say. I only ask because it
sounds like one based on your choice of the 16F877 and you have a flow
chart.

Bob

-- http://www.fastmail.fm - IMAP accessible web-mail


'[PIC]'
2011\05\23@094837 by Prakash Ranjan
picon face
Earlier i was using eagle5.6 for schematic designing & layout; now i am
using OrCAD16, but there is library for PIC ICs. I need lib files for
PIC18F. please help.
thanks



Prakash Ranjan
INDI

2011\05\23@100209 by jim

flavicon
face

FYI,

Im not sure of your situation regarding your PCB layout program, but
where I work, we were using Orcad,  and found that it was outdated, we were behind a revision, and the cost
t get the upgrades to the latest
package was more expensive than going to a completely different
package.
 The new package chosen is ALTIUM.  Cost was about $7500.00.  That
includes Schematic Capture, PCB Layout,
Built In FPGA suppot, Built In SPICE, many other extras and perks, and
we have a local FAE for support.
All in all, a bargain.

So, if you have the money, and want to get away from Orcad, ALTIUM is a
way to go.


Regards,

Jim

{Quote hidden}

> -

2011\05\23@100605 by alan.b.pearce

face picon face
> Earlier i was using eagle5.6 for schematic designing & layout; now i am
> using OrCAD16, but there is library for PIC ICs. I need lib files for
> PIC18F. please help.

It is quite easy to make your own library in Orcad. I have done it many times.


-- Scanned by iCritical.

2011\05\23@111418 by Randy Abernathy

flavicon
face
I don't do a lot of PCB layouts and still use TraxMaker which works with
CircuitMaker.  Both of those were acquired by Altium some time back and updates
are no longer available.  However, even though it is an older platform, I can
create any library I need including PICs.  I know Altium can do the same thing
and so can OrCad. You may likely be able to modify some existing packages
instead of having to create from scratch.  
Randy Abernathy
CNC and Industrial Machinery service, repair, installation and design

4626 Old Stilesboro Rd NW
Acworth, GA 30101
Fax: 770-974-5295
Phone: 678-982-0235
E-mail: EraseMErandyabernathyspamBeGonespamspambellsouth.net



-----Original Message-----
From: KILLspampiclist-bouncesspammit.edu [piclist-bouncesspam_OUTspamspammit.edu] On Behalf Of
alan.b.pearcespamspam@spam@stfc.ac.uk
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 10:05 AM
To: spamBeGonepiclist.....spammit.edu
Subject: RE: [PIC]

> Earlier i was using eagle5.6 for schematic designing & layout; now i am
> using OrCAD16, but there is library for PIC ICs. I need lib files for
> PIC18F. please help.

It is quite easy to make your own library in Orcad. I have done it many times.


-- Scanned by iCritical.


'[PIC]'
2011\11\20@125209 by saniye tokel
picon face

[We have a project and we are trying to make a pic programmer.We want to learn how can we use usb port, how can we connect usb and pic and how we can communicate pic and usb?]                                          

2011\11\20@132019 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
On Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:52 PM, "saniye tokel"  wrote:
>
> [We have a project and we are trying to make a pic programmer.We want to
> learn how can we use usb port, how can we connect usb and pic and how we
> can communicate pic and usb?]                                          
If you have already gotten beyond the "blink an LED stage", then the
next stage would be to "define the project" then "choose components".

It isn't clear from your email which stage you are at.

Best regards,

Bob

-- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own

2011\11\20@145654 by Byron Jeff

flavicon
face
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 07:52:08PM +0200, saniye tokel wrote:
>
> [We have a project and we are trying to make a pic programmer.We want to
> learn how can we use usb port, how can we connect usb and pic and how we
> can communicate pic and usb?]                                            
You've hit upon a fundamental paradox if your goal is to create a USB PIC
programmer using a PIC. To create the programmer, you have to program the
PIC. But in order to program the PIC, you need a programmer. And if you get
a programmer, then there's no real need to build a programmer.

This discussion leads to my pretty much annual pilgrammage on this list to
point out that programmers are often overrated. Quite a few chips in the
PIC family are self programmable. If one is willing to stick to one of
these chips, and one is willing to forego in circuit debugging, then the
need for a traditional programmer is significantly reduced. But there's
still a need to get the initial code onto the chip so that it can
subsequently program itself. Because of its limited functionality, I use
the term "code dumper" for such a device.

The observation I came to is that the code dumper needs to be cheap and
easy to build with available components. Also it should have reusuable components
because it's not likely to get a whole lot of use. And since we now live in
a USB world, there has to be a USB interface. The device that made the most
sense to me was a USB/serial interface. Such interfaces are cheap, readily
available, and can be reused as the standard communications interface for
the bootloader that's dumped into the chip.

I've prototyped a code dumper for the 16F enhanced family. The hardware
interface consists of conditioning the serial outputs (TX, DTR, and RTS)
using a 2.2K resistor and a 4.7V zener diode for each output. The TX line
controls the MCLR pin, while DTR and RTS are tied to the PDATA and PCLK
respectively. PDATA is also tied back into CTS for input.

My test code is written in Python, using the latest pyserial module for
control of the serial port. I've tested it under Ubuntu 11.04. However,
there should not be any reason that it wouldn't run on any system that
supports pyserial.

My original plan was to use low voltage programming. But the family has
errata, where LVP doesn't work. The code dumper works fine as long as HVP
is used.

Right now I'm working on the bootloader. I've found two critical issues in
terms of a useful bootloader: autobaud detection and stability when using
the internal oscillator. Previous bootloaders I've implemented have had
problems with each. So I'm working diligently to resolve those issues this
time around.

The system that I'm thinking about adapting is the 3BP signalling protocol
used by the Parallax Propeller bootloader. A description of the protocol
can be found here:

http://propeller.wikispaces.com/Download+Protocol

3BP is a 3 bit protocol that consist of a start, data, and stop bit. The
start and stop bits are exactly the same as standard async start/stop bits
(i.e. a zero for the start bit, and a one for the stop bit). The data bit
is the standard data bit. So the two possible bit patterns are 001 for a
zero data bit and 011 for a one data bit. Deciding which bit is determined
solely by the length of time the serial line has a zero, where the zero bit
is exactly twice as long as the one bit.

With a 7N1 async encoding, it's possible to send 3 3BP data cells in every 7 bit
async character. The first data cell uses the standard async start bit for
its start bit, while the last data cell uses the standard async stop bit
for its stop bit. So the 9 async bits (start, 7 data, stop) can encode 3
3BP cells. And since the ratio of the length of the zero determine the
data, it works at any baud rate, and works even if less than 3 3BP cells
are sent per 7 bit async character.

The only thing I couldn't figure out was how does the protocol determine
the ratio of time between the zero and one cells? I finally realized that
the protocol preconditions the system by sending a long preamble which has
an equal number of zero and one state bits. So the target simply has to
receive and average the length of the 0 pulses to get an time that's
halfway between the length of the zero pulse of the 1 cell (call that time
T) and the length of the zero pulse of the 0 cell (time 2T). So the average
between the two is 1.5T. This time is perfect because it's time from the
beginning of the start bit of the 3BP cell, to the center of the data bit
for that cell. So once the preconditioning is complete, it's easy to get the
data from each 3BP cell. So my plan is to send a minimum of 256 cells of
alternating zeros and ones, then flag the end of the preable by sending at
least 8 zero cells in a row followed by a 1 cell, which marks the beginning
of of the first data packet. My back of the envelope numbers shows it'll
take about 4 mS to send a 50 character preable (150 cells) @ 115.2kbits/sec
in 7N1 format. Virtually no time at all.

My next thought is to actually continue measuring the lengths of the zero
pulses for the cells and updating the 1.5T delay during the download. May
not be necessary, but it could theoretically improve the stability of the
download even if there are temp changes while the program loads. Maybe in a
future version of the bootloader.

As you can see, this is on my active project list.

Any thoughts welcome.

BAJ


> -

2011\11\20@155354 by Peter Johansson

picon face
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Byron Jeff <.....byronjeff@spam@spammail.clayton.edu> wrote:

> You've hit upon a fundamental paradox if your goal is to create a USB PIC
> programmer using a PIC. To create the programmer, you have to program the
> PIC. But in order to program the PIC, you need a programmer. And if you get
> a programmer, then there's no real need to build a programmer.

This seems to cover what you need to do in order to bootstrap a PIC programmer:

http://dangerousprototypes.com/2011/11/01/bootstrapping-a-picqueno32/

Honestly, just popping for a cheap PK2 clone seems to make a lot more sense..

-p

2011\11\20@164204 by Byron Jeff

flavicon
face
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 03:53:51PM -0500, Peter Johansson wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Byron Jeff <@spam@byronjeffspammail.clayton.edu> wrote:
>
> > You've hit upon a fundamental paradox if your goal is to create a USB PIC
> > programmer using a PIC. To create the programmer, you have to program the
> > PIC. But in order to program the PIC, you need a programmer. And if you get
> > a programmer, then there's no real need to build a programmer.
>
> This seems to cover what you need to do in order to bootstrap a PIC programmer:
>
> http://dangerousprototypes.com/2011/11/01/bootstrapping-a-picqueno32/

The only thing about JDM serial programmers is that it depends on a true
high voltage (i.e. +/- 12V) serial port for proper operation. Virtually no USB
serial interface supports those voltage levels.

>
> Honestly, just popping for a cheap PK2 clone seems to make a lot more sense.

That's the proper route if you actually need a programmer. As I believe I
outlined in my previous post, that if your final target is a bootloader
(such as the picqueno32 in the link), then the idea of a simple code dumper
does still has some utility.

BAJ

>
> -p.
> -

2011\11\20@184552 by Peter Johansson

picon face
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Byron Jeff <byronjeffRemoveMEspammail.clayton.edu> wrote:

> The only thing about JDM serial programmers is that it depends on a true
> high voltage (i.e. +/- 12V) serial port for proper operation. Virtually no USB
> serial interface supports those voltage levels.

My understanding is that the JDM programmer was only used in this case
to bootstrap the homebrew PicKit 2 programmer.

> That's the proper route if you actually need a programmer. As I believe I
> outlined in my previous post, that if your final target is a bootloader
> (such as the picqueno32 in the link), then the idea of a simple code dumper
> does still has some utility.

Do any PICs come with a serial bootstrap loader from the factory?  One
of the nice things about the MSP430s (which I am playing with these
days) is that many of them come with bootstrap loader in ROM from the
factory.

-p

2011\11\20@190206 by Byron Jeff

flavicon
face
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 06:45:50PM -0500, Peter Johansson wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Byron Jeff <spambyronjeffspammail.clayton.edu> wrote:
>
> > The only thing about JDM serial programmers is that it depends on a true
> > high voltage (i.e. +/- 12V) serial port for proper operation. Virtually no USB
> > serial interface supports those voltage levels.
>
> My understanding is that the JDM programmer was only used in this case
> to bootstrap the homebrew PicKit 2 programmer.

Yes. But note that the author had to scrounge up a machine with a true blue
serial port in order to do the job.

>
> > That's the proper route if you actually need a programmer. As I believe I
> > outlined in my previous post, that if your final target is a bootloader
> > (such as the picqueno32 in the link), then the idea of a simple code dumper
> > does still has some utility.
>
> Do any PICs come with a serial bootstrap loader from the factory?

Nope.

>  One
> of the nice things about the MSP430s (which I am playing with these
> days) is that many of them come with bootstrap loader in ROM from the
> factory.

Lots of non Microchip parts are like that, including the parallax
propeller. The problem is that in order to pull it off you need a stable
clock reference and a dedicated pin for the serial interface..
Fundamentally the PICs all come with a syncronous serial interface. It isn't
really all that hard to connect to.

BAJ


>
> -p.
> -

2011\11\21@135502 by Mahesh P

flavicon
face
> You've hit upon a fundamental paradox if your goal is to create a USB PIC
> programmer using a PIC. To create the programmer, you have to program the
> PIC. But in order to program the PIC, you need a programmer. And if you get
> a programmer, then there's no real need to build a programmer.

Well... well... i took this circuitous (pun intended) route ;-)
Way back in 2007, i made a clone of PicKit.
I now use the fsusb + bootloader to update the firmware and the process NOW is trivial.

Q: Ok, How did you get the bootloader in ? A: I used another 8051 based board i had made before.
a PC "software" i wrote would stream the PIC-hex bootloader bytes over UART to the 8051.The custom firmware i wrote on 8051 would bit-bang the data to PIC on its MOSI/MISO lines. The bootloader is the standard pickit bootloader Microchip provides for PIC18F2455.

Q: Ok now how did you get the 8051 firmware into 8051 ?
A: Using parallel port of PC. (remember the clunky ol parallel port that used to be in PC circa 1990's ?)
I wrote a program to "byte"-bang the 8051-hex data over parallel port. the good old AT89C51 can be programmed in parallel mode.
This 8051-hex was the PIC "programmer" which worked quite well.
finally i decided that i have had enough fun and got around to do something useful than writing bootloaders to load bootloaders ;-)

Q: are you a member of some fringe lunatic group ?
A: Heck no ! it was quite a bit of fun as i got things working by doing every single thing that need to get a chip working; myself (as opposed to using a programmer which will magically program the firmware).
If you need to show results to your boss/yourself, use a programmer.
Time taken: more than 1 year.

Circa 2011: i can now program another PIC using my PicKit clone :-) . but only time i use this scheme is to program a bootloader or if bootloader goes kaput.

-Mahesh

2011\11\21@152305 by Byron Jeff

flavicon
face
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:24:59AM +0530, Mahesh P wrote:
> > You've hit upon a fundamental paradox if your goal is to create a USB PIC
> > programmer using a PIC. To create the programmer, you have to program the
> > PIC. But in order to program the PIC, you need a programmer. And if you get
> > a programmer, then there's no real need to build a programmer.
>
> Well... well... i took this circuitous (pun intended) route ;-)
> Way back in 2007, i made a clone of PicKit.
> I now use the fsusb + bootloader to update the firmware and the process NOW is trivial.

Ok course. Once you get the bootloader loaded, it is in fact pretty
trivial.

{Quote hidden}

So my question is: why did you not simply use the parallel port of the PC
to program the PIC18F2455 directly? That was the entire purpose of my
Trivial LVP PIC programmer:

http://www.finitesite.com/d3jsys

The project died because virtually no modern machine comes with a parallel
or serial port anymore.
>  finally i decided that i have had enough fun and got around to do something useful than writing bootloaders to load bootloaders ;-)

There is that. However it's good to know what you can program your own
parts in a pinch. The only missing part is the software.

BAJ

> Q: are you a member of some fringe lunatic group ?
> A: Heck no ! it was quite a bit of fun as i got things working by doing every single thing that need to get a chip working; myself (as opposed to using a programmer which will magically program the firmware).
> If you need to show results to your boss/yourself, use a programmer.
> Time taken: more than 1 year.
>
> Circa 2011: i can now program another PIC using my PicKit clone :-) . but only time i use this scheme is to program a bootloader or if bootloader goes kaput.
>
> -Mahesh
>
>
> -

2011\11\21@165134 by Peter Johansson

picon face
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Byron Jeff <byronjeffspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmail.clayton.edu> wrote:

> The project died because virtually no modern machine comes with a parallel
> or serial port anymore.

It's always handy to keep a few old laptops on hand for this very reason.

-p

2011\11\21@172027 by Byron Jeff

flavicon
face
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 04:51:33PM -0500, Peter Johansson wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Byron Jeff <spam_OUTbyronjeff@spam@spamRemoveMEmail.clayton.edu> wrote:
>
> > The project died because virtually no modern machine comes with a parallel
> > or serial port anymore.
>
> It's always handy to keep a few old laptops on hand for this very reason.

I'm not sure it's worth it because then that's another whole machine whose
software you need to manage. Not to mention that old laptops have battery
issues, and you have to keep track of the power supply.

A simple code dumper can be put together with a handful of discrete parts
(7 resistors, 3 zener diodes, 3 jellybean NPN transistors) and a USB/serial
interface that will dump a bootloader onto a part in nothing flat. So if
you are a bootloader person (as I am), there's little reason to keep an
entire old laptop, when a handful of junkbox parts can do the job.

Honestly, the toughest part to locate is an easy to interface female DB9.
In the old days, one could scrounge one connected to a IDC flat ribbon
cable off one of the back plates of an old PC. But they don't exist
anymore. Currently I use a Cisco serial console cable (female DB9 to RJ45)
and either cut off the RJ45 end or use a RJ45 coupler and an ethernet
pigtail.

BAJ

>
> -p.
> -

2011\11\22@113714 by Mahesh P

flavicon
face
> So my question is: why did you not simply use the parallel port of the PC
> to program the PIC18F2455 directly? That was the entire purpose of my
> Trivial LVP PIC programmer:

Mostly for historic reasons. i started my affair with microcontrollers by using 8051s. programming was through parallel port using parallel interface.
Got to know about SPI programmable 8051s some time later. By this time i had designed my own serial port-to-SPI programmer as i found parallel port to be bit flaky and cumbersome to use(may be my chip-on-breadboard technology?).
I started tinkering with PICs much later after i stopped using the parallel port.

-Mahesh


'[PIC]'
2011\12\04@151206 by saniye tokel
picon face



From: spamsanietokelspamspamhotmail.com
To: @spam@piclistspam_OUTspammit.edu
Subject: [PIC]
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:52:08 +0200








[We have a project and we are trying to make a pic programmer.We want to learn how can we use usb port, how can we connect usb and pic and how can communicate pic and usb?]                                                                                      

2011\12\04@170509 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
This is the same message you sent November 20.

You got many replies.

Do you have comments about them, or anything to add?

Bob

On Sunday, December 04, 2011 10:12 PM, "saniye tokel"
<.....sanietokelspam.....hotmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2011\12\05@095925 by Randy Abernathy

flavicon
face
My recommendation would be to purchase one from Microengineering Labs
http://www.melabs.com they have their U2 USB programmer for around $95.00 USD.
Unless you just want to make your own, which would cost as much or more when
one factors in the time and cost of components, I would recommend buying one
that is known to work.  
Also, there is a complete development system from MikroElektronica.  I have
their EasyPIC 6 system which is awesome and it cost around $140.00 USD and
includes a built in USB programmer, among MANY other features.
MikroElektronika has a new development system available which has a few
added features over the EasyPIC 6 and it is around $149.00 USD.

-----Original Message-----
From: KILLspampiclist-bounces.....spamKILLspammit.edu [piclist-bouncesspam_OUTspamspam_OUTmit.edu] On Behalf Of
saniye tokel
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 3:12 PM
To: KILLspampiclistspam@spam@mit.edu
Subject: FW: [PIC]




From: @spam@sanietokelRemoveMEspamhotmail.com
To: piclist@spam@spamEraseMEmit.edu
Subject: [PIC]
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:52:08 +0200








[We have a project and we are trying to make a pic programmer.We want to
learn how can we use usb port, how can we connect usb and pic and how can
communicate pic and usb?]

2011\12\05@100747 by Yigit Turgut

picon face
It's probably a homework or a project for school, if otherwise he
would just go and purchase instead of asking.

PS; I would love to see Olin's response to this situation (OP sending
the identical message 15 days later despite all the replies)

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Randy Abernathy
<spam_OUTrandyabernathyspam_OUTspamRemoveMEbellsouth.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2011\12\05@103634 by jim

flavicon
face

Hi ya Randy.  Just saying hello and I hope you and your family are
doing well.
Tell Troy I said hello too.

Regards,

Jim

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2011\12\05@122444 by Randy Abernathy

flavicon
face
You are probably correct.

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu] On Behalf Of
Yigit Turgut
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 10:08 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [PIC]

It's probably a homework or a project for school, if otherwise he
would just go and purchase instead of asking.

PS; I would love to see Olin's response to this situation (OP sending
the identical message 15 days later despite all the replies)

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Randy Abernathy
<EraseMErandyabernathyspamKILLspambellsouth.net> wrote:
> My recommendation would be to purchase one from Microengineering Labs
> http://www.melabs.com they have their U2 USB programmer for around $95.00 USD.
> Unless you just want to make your own, which would cost as much or more
when
> one factors in the time and cost of components, I would recommend buying
one
> that is known to work.
>
> Also, there is a complete development system from MikroElektronica.  I
have
> their EasyPIC 6 system which is awesome and it cost around $140.00 USD and
> includes a built in USB programmer, among MANY other features.
> MikroElektronika has a new development system available which has a few
> added features over the EasyPIC 6 and it is around $149.00 USD.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bouncesEraseMEspammit.edu [EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspamspamBeGonemit.edu] On Behalf
Of
{Quote hidden}

>

2011\12\05@131209 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
Question for you, Randy.

Why wouldn't you suggest one of the low-cost Microchip units such as a PICkit 2 or PICkit 3?  The PK2, in particular, is darned inexpensive - I see clones available on eBay for less than US $22.  However, both myself and my coworker much prefer the PICkit 3 over the PK2.

I'm not criticizing your suggestion, rather, I'm genuinely interested in hearing your reasons.

Another option worth looking at for anyone who is working with 3.3V-only PICs such as most of the USB-equipped PICs is Olin Lathrop's low-cost programmer - I think that he sells those for about $20.  However, it doesn't work within MPLAB and you have to use Olin's software to control it.

That said - I have one and it works well.

dwayne


At 08:01 AM 12/5/2011, Randy Abernathy wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>{Original Message removed}

2011\12\05@133257 by Randy Abernathy

flavicon
face
The only reason I suggested the U2 Melabs programmer and/or the EasyPIC 6
system is that I have both and have used both with great results. No real
reason not to recommend the PICkit2 or PICkit3 I just haven't had any
experience with them.  I think either of those would do what he needs.

Randy Abernathy
CNC Woodworking Machinery
Design, Repair, Installation and Service
Phone / Fax: 770-974-5295
Email: spam_OUTrandyabernathyTakeThisOuTspamKILLspambellsouth.net
or  RemoveMEcnc002@spam@spamspambellsouth.net {Original Message removed}

2011\12\05@140127 by Byron Jeff

flavicon
face
I think the big problem is that the OP did not explain why they wanted to
build a programmer. Is it a learning experience? Cost sensitivity?
Requirement that they have complete control over the process?

No recommendation makes much sense without understanding the rationale
behind the request.

BAJ

On Mon, Dec 05, 2011 at 01:33:03PM -0500, Randy Abernathy wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2011\12\05@140737 by Randy Abernathy

flavicon
face
You may be correct and I didn't really ask why.  However, your
recommendation of the PICkit 2 or 3 would be more appropriate than mine when
considering the inexpensive part of the request.  
Randy Abernathy
CNC Woodworking Machinery
Design, Repair, Installation and Service
Phone / Fax: 770-974-5295
Email: randyabernathyTakeThisOuTspamspamBeGonebellsouth.net
or  spamcnc002TakeThisOuTspambellsouth.net
{Original Message removed}


'[PIC]'
2012\10\19@044045 by alan.b.pearce
face picon face
Those of you wondering what to use the configurable logic in the 12F15xx/16F15xx series chips for, Microchip have now released an app note for a Manchester Decoder.


http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/01470A.pdf


-- Scanned by iCritical.


'[PIC]'
2013\11\10@103437 by Larry Bradley
flavicon
face
I have an app that has been running fine on an 18F452 for years. I am
trying to get it working on an 18F4620. I've read the conversion
documents and made the appropriate changes.

But I have one problem that I cannot figure out.
I have a 64 byte area in program memory (at 0x7FC0) that contains
calibration constants. These are initially compiled into the program.

At initialization time, I copy these 64 bytes from the program area to
an area in data ram, using TBLRD.
The code works fine for the 452, but not for the 4620 - the data in the
data ram is incorrect.
The docs do not suggest any differences in reading from program memory
(I know that writing is different, but I'm not doing that yet).

Any suggestions as to what might be wrong? Code protection is not
enabled.
-- Larry Bradley  Orleans (Ottawa) Canada
-- http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
.

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2013 , 2014 only
- Today
- New search...