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'[PIC]:Sin wave'
2000\11\21@030405 by Nuri ERGINER

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Hi,

I want to control a 1.44 floppy step motor which moves the read/write head.
I know how to drive the motor. The question is I want to turn it in the form
of sin function.
it will start to turn slowly then the speed will increase then it will again
become slower and stop
then it will do the same motion to the other direction. In the form of sin
function.
the head will move forward and backward horizantly.

    <------------------->
motion in the form of sin wave

Any comment and knowlade is welcome.
Regards,
Nuri Erginer

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2000\11\21@030628 by Alok Dubey

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u will need a sort of freq modulation.. assuming u want the angular velo to
be a sine fin.. and the motor is a stepper motor.

Alok


> {Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@030836 by Alok Dubey

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a more accurate description would be PWM or PPM.. PWM should suffice for ur
case though

alok


> {Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@031234 by Nuri ERGINER

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sorry but what is PWM or PPM stands for

-----Original Message-----
From: Alok Dubey [.....adubeyKILLspamspam@spam@WIPRO.CO.IN]
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 10:20 AM
To: PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]:Sin wave


a more accurate description would be PWM or PPM.. PWM should suffice for ur
case though

alok


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2000\11\21@031654 by Alok Dubey

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pulse width modulation or pulse amplitude modulation.

u have a pulse generator which generates pulses of a given amp.. the time
period of the pulse is dependent on the modulating amplitude.. in ur case a
sine wave..

PPM and PWM are different in the sense that in one case u vary the freq of
the pulse genration (PPM)
whereas in PWM u vary only the on time of the pulse..

im sure u get a lot of ICs for the same..

hope it helps..



> {Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@033356 by Nuri ERGINER

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You are right FM is the answer to solve the question.
but how? What kind of controllers do I have to use?

Please I need more information

Regards,
Nuri Erginer



{Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@034418 by Alok Dubey

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i havent worked on embedded systems for ages now! .. i dont rememebr whci
controllers provide this feature anymore.. i can tell u what u want to know
about networking though.. :-)

one way could be to forget FM and go for a counter based trigger.. most
micros provide this u could write a small code which updates the counter in
the manner of a sine fn and the pulse generated at the counter o/p pin could
be used to drive ur steps.. and another data line etc. could be used for
direction control.

the other.. for expermental sake could be a good old 566 PLL or  something
as a VCO and a schmitt trigger.. just look up at soem VLSI companies catalog
ul find some IC which does the whole thing..

again im shooting off the attic of my head.. i may be wrong abt this info..
but defi u need PPM or PWM

rgds
Alok



> {Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@035733 by Nuri ERGINER

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>one way could be to forget FM and go for a counter based trigger.. most
>micros provide this u could write a small code which updates the counter in
>the manner of a sine fn and the pulse generated at the counter o/p pin
could
>be used to drive ur steps.. and another data line etc. could be used for
>direction control.

yes this is what I want to do because it will be much easier. I need
people's help
how to updates the counter in the manner of a sine fn
if anybody have a code or some knowlage Please let me know

Regards,
Nuri Erginer

{Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@040346 by Alok Dubey

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well then i dont know that.. but i suggest the 2nd is much easier.. i might
ask someone to get u the cod eon a 805x series based micros..

still ,what is the application if i may ask

Alok


> {Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@040754 by Nuri ERGINER

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It will be a robot leg

-----Original Message-----
From: Alok Dubey [RemoveMEadubeyTakeThisOuTspamWIPRO.CO.IN]
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 11:14 AM
To: spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]:Sin wave


well then i dont know that.. but i suggest the 2nd is much easier.. i might
ask someone to get u the cod eon a 805x series based micros..

still ,what is the application if i may ask

Alok


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2000\11\21@042500 by Alok Dubey

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why a sine wave?
alok


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2000\11\21@043543 by Nuri ERGINER

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the life is is hiding in the sin wave

-----Original Message-----
From: Alok Dubey [KILLspamadubeyspam.....WIPRO.CO.IN]
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 11:36 AM
To: spam_OUTPICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]:Sin wave


why a sine wave?
alok


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2000\11\21@064229 by Alok Dubey

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cool .. a e^sin x is a better fn
alok


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2000\11\21@080720 by rchock, Steve

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sin X = sin of variable "X"



-----Original Message-----
From: Alok Dubey [spam_OUTadubeyspamspamBeGoneWIPRO.CO.IN]
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 6:16 AM
To: EraseMEPICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]:Sin wave [ADMIN]


what is sinx


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2000\11\21@080934 by Alok Dubey

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no i meant why sin (x) .. for th efunction..

hey i know math too!


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2000\11\21@082857 by Bob Ammerman

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From: Alok Dubey <KILLspamadubeyKILLspamspamspamBeGoneWIPRO.CO.IN>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC]:Sin wave


> no i meant why sin (x) .. for th efunction..
>
> hey i know math too!
>

I think it is more like sin(t), with t for time...

It is because this produces a 'smooth' motion with no jerkiness (because the
derivative of SIN is COS, the derivative of COS is -SIN, etc.)

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

> > {Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@083327 by Alok Dubey

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then an exp fn is cool too
alok


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2000\11\21@090433 by Nuri ERGINER

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how we will use Sin(t)
for a delay function?

I want to drive a stepper motor you know
inthe form of Sin fn

{Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@091225 by Nuri ERGINER

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procedure coswait(i:integer);
var
t:real;
begin
t:=cos((i*pi)/180);
sleep(round(t));
end;

what do you think about the procedure
I will use it in below procedure


procedure TForm1.Button1Click(Sender: TObject);
var i:integer;
begin
for i:=0 to 360 do
begin
pulse
coswait(i);
end;
end;

puse is the function that will send pulses to step motoor
can this be the solution?



{Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@093733 by Stephen B Webb

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Maybe you could avoid the sin calculation, and pwm stuff all together and
opt for a mechanical solution?

Motor drives a pulley with a peg on the perimeter.  Peg fits into a
horizontal slot on a vertical prismatic joint.  Turning the motor on makes
the prismatic joint move up and down as a sine wave.  Vary the speed of
the motor, and you vary the period of the sine wave.


Just a thought.

-Steve

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2000\11\21@094135 by Bob Ammerman

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----- Original Message -----
From: Alok Dubey <KILLspamadubeyspamWIPRO.CO.IN>
To: <PICLISTspam_OUTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC]:Sin wave


> then an exp fn is cool too

Ah, but we can't have a robots leg move to infinity!

btw: It is trivial to create a SIN(x) motion using a continuously
constant-speed rotating motor.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)


> alok
>
>
> > {Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@095431 by Nuri ERGINER

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is it possible to draw a shema for that

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen B Webb [sbwebb0spamspam@spam@SAC.UKY.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 4:38 PM
To: spamBeGonePICLIST.....spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]:Sin wave


Maybe you could avoid the sin calculation, and pwm stuff all together and
opt for a mechanical solution?

Motor drives a pulley with a peg on the perimeter.  Peg fits into a
horizontal slot on a vertical prismatic joint.  Turning the motor on makes
the prismatic joint move up and down as a sine wave.  Vary the speed of
the motor, and you vary the period of the sine wave.


Just a thought.

-Steve

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2000\11\21@101246 by Stephen B Webb

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part 1 48 bytes content-type:TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Picture of what I was talking about.

-Steve



part 2 813 bytes content-type:IMAGE/GIF; name="sin.gif" (decode)

part 3 136 bytes
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2000\11\21@101714 by Alok Dubey

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u want the angular velo to be a fn of sin (t) right
w=sin (t)

right?
alok


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2000\11\21@103326 by Alok Dubey

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or use a cam gear


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2000\11\21@103346 by Alok Dubey

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e^(-sinx) is not an infinite fn..
the derivative is -sinx e ^(-sinx) which again is cool
alok


> {Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@103930 by Alok Dubey

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sorry the derivative is -sinx .cosx e^-sinx
but thats even better from what i see on my graph here..
actually what are u looking for .. why do u need the sine fn.. in the 1st
place
is the leg rotating or what?


> {Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@103936 by Alok Dubey

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from what he said i thought the steps were a sine wave fn.. u seem to ba
taking in terms of the joint workspace..
alok


> {Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@104202 by Alok Dubey

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> sorry the derivative is -cosx e^-sinx
> but thats even better from what i see on my graph here..
> actually what are u looking for .. why do u need the sine fn.. in the 1st
> place
> is the leg rotating or what?
>
>
>       {Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@105239 by D Lloyd

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part 1 7037 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I was under the impression that the derivative of e^(-sin(x)) is -cos(x) *
e^(-sin(x))

No?

Dan




(Embedded     Alok Dubey <KILLspamadubeyspam@spam@WIPRO.CO.IN>spam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>> image moved   21/11/2000 15:49
to file:
pic20450.pcx)





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sorry the derivative is -sinx .cosx e^-sinx
but thats even better from what i see on my graph here..
actually what are u looking for .. why do u need the sine fn.. in the 1st
place
is the leg rotating or what?


> {Original Message removed}
part 2 165 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream; (decode)

part 3 136 bytes
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2000\11\21@105442 by Alok Dubey

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yeah i was just cutting and pasting.. sorry... i was wrong
thanks
alok


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2000\11\21@112118 by Scott Dattalo

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If you want sine waves with a pic look at

http://www.dattalo.com/technical/software/pic/picsine.html

If you want to figure out other ways beside look up tables and linear
interpolation then look at:

http://www.dattalo.com/technical/theory/sinewave.html



Scott

PS. Please edit your messages before posting all of the unnecessary junk (this
is to Aloc and that the other guy engaged in Chat on the piclist).

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2000\11\21@114751 by Alok Dubey

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as far as i remember did not need a sine wave motion .. he needed a sine
wave variation of the angular velocity..
correct me if im wrong.. im new to this robo mumbo jumbo but why do u need
the displacement vector to follow a sine curve..
alok


> {Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@120016 by Bill Westfield

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The original request was for an accelerate-fast-decelerate sort of motion,
but that's NOT what a sine wave looks like.  There may be a nice floating
point function that gets you this sort of curve, but some sort of lookup
table seems more appropriate to the application.  Perhaps along the lines
of "ticks between steps" for the stepper motor:
       tictable:
               db 20           ;start slow
               db 10           ; speed up exponentially
               db 5
               db 2
               db 0            ; "coast" at 0 till time to decel.
               db 2
               db 5
               db 10
               db 20

BillW

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2000\11\21@125619 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

As long as you can find a Delphi compiler for the PIC!

Mike

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2000\11\21@163612 by o-8859-9?Q?Nihat_Da=F0demir?=

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Merhaba ,
Step Motor ve Sinus deyince insan}n akl}na microstep gibi karma~}k s|rme
teknikleri geliyor. ama san}r}m sen sadece h}zlanma ve yava~lamay}
kastediyorsun,

Dogru anlam}~sam ve kafan}n hareketleri hep ayn} mesafede ise Hareketin
yumu~akl}g}na gvre  sinus tablosu haz}rla ve motor puls aras} bekleme
s|relerini bu tablodan al.

{Original Message removed}

2000\11\21@165219 by stouchton

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ok... am I missing a font or something?

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[PICLISTspam_OUTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Nihat Dagdemir
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 4:41 PM
To: PICLIST.....spam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]:Sin wave


Merhaba ,
Step Motor ve Sinus deyince insan}n akl}na microstep gibi karma~}k s|rme
teknikleri geliyor. ama san}r}m sen sadece h}zlanma ve yava~lamay}
kastediyorsun,

Dogru anlam}~sam ve kafan}n hareketleri hep ayn} mesafede ise Hareketin
yumu~akl}g}na gvre  sinus tablosu haz}rla ve motor puls aras} bekleme
s|relerini bu tablodan al.

----- Original Message -----
From: Nuri ERGINER <@spam@nerginerspamspamSSM.GOV.TR>
To: <spam_OUTPICLISTspamBeGonespamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 9:57 AM
Subject: [PIC]:Sin wave


> Hi,
>
> I want to control a 1.44 floppy step motor which moves the read/write
head.
> I know how to drive the motor. The question is I want to turn it in the
form
> of sin function.
> it will start to turn slowly then the speed will increase then it will
again
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2000\11\21@181512 by rich+piclist

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iso-8859-9 == Turkish Latin-5

On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Stouchton wrote:

> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:51:47 -0500
> From: Stouchton <.....stouchton@spam@spamspamBeGonecapitaresearch.com>
> To: STOPspamPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [PIC]:Sin wave
>
> ok... am I missing a font or something?
>
> {Original Message removed}

2000\11\23@132135 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
You need to read a book about stepper control. When you drive the stepper
at certain speeds it will resonate mechanically and this will cause it to
lose steps. The makers of floppy drivers know this and make sure that
their drivers never go at that speed. With your sinus you are almost
certain to run the gauntlet. The solution is a special mechanical brake
(dynamic and/or friction and/or viscous damper) or staying out of the
dangerous speed range, which requires some knowledge of it in the first
place. You can make some tests and find out (with slowly variable speed,
using the existing optocoupler to see if steps were lost). This will not
replace a motor data sheet but it will get you going imho.

hope this helps,

Peter

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