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PICList Thread
'[PIC]:PSX mod chip for PSOne'
2000\12\10@081817 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
Is it possible to ban this sort of talk on PICLIST?

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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2000\12\10@113945 by James Newton

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As per the PICList FAQ:

Q. Is the PICList a good place to ask for / post cracks for PIC related
software?

A. Remember that the PICList is a public forum. Most of its members are
working engineers. Asking for a crack will typically get you nothing but
advice to pay for what you get. In the past, cracks posted to the list have
evoked mixed responses ranging from offlist threats, to onlist thanks and
have started some flame threads about hacking and cracking and software
licenses and prices in general which always end up being a waste of
bandwidth. List members have been known to forward cracking related threads
to the maker of the product being cracked with full header information
(including your email address, and who your ISP is).

We can't stop people from posting things that are not legal. We do not
approve of software piracy and will remove from the list individuals who
show a flagrant disregard for the rights (and efforts) of others. We will
forcibly kill flame threads that have no bearing on PICs and are not
appropriate to the list.

Jory says: "...[we can't prevent] PICList people [from pirating] software,
since that is everyone's own choice, ... i don't want to police such things,
but please keep in mind the nature of your communication, and the nature of
a public list and decide what is appropriate."

Let's keep cracking off the PICList, there are plenty of other lists for
that, and as always, please mark anything not directly related to PIC
engineering with an [OT] : or [EE]: at the beginning of the subject line.


James Newton, PICList Admin #3
spam_OUTjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

2000\12\10@151141 by Peter May

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We are so lucky to have a Judge and Jury on this list. In Australia we are
allowed to make back up copies of all software. If my main copy fails I
would be allowed to use the back up copy. Wether or not this is the case in
regards to me you will never know. I asked a simple question and I suppose
with this reply I will get a SECOND WARNING?

Lists are great places to find help and to start flame wars. Yes I can
choose not to read this and in fact reply to it. As another reader
suggested, the delete key is a wonderful thing. I am not some kid bent on
cracking and hacking. Infact I write software and sell it. There is a crack
for my stuff out there 5 days after a I write a new version. So what? The
people that would buy it still will and the people that might not buy a play
station probably will if they can get away with something cheaper.

So bar me! I will subscribe under a different name and address. You must
have a lot of time on your hands if you are not only a PIC programmer but
Police, Judge, Jury, Sherrif and Ballif.

Warmest regards, Peter "HACKER-CRACK" May
http://www.sale-net.com.au


{Original Message removed}

2000\12\10@155057 by John Mullan

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Sorry you feel this way Bob.  After all, it is PIC related.

For those that feel there is something "illegitimate" about it, even VCRs
can play "backup" games.  Modifying a game console to play "backup" games
(of which you are allowed, by law, to have one backup copy if you own a
copy) is perfectly OK.  And often it will allow you to play foreign versions
of games (which can't be a bad thing).

So I'm not sure why you would like "this sort of talk" banned?  What seems
to be the trouble?


John Mullan


{Original Message removed}

2000\12\10@155916 by John Mullan

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Again, I didn't mean to cross any lines here.  I'm sure there are some
"shady" things being done too.

And as for "flames" and "appropriate" to the list (see Q&A below), I think
the following language

       James Newton -> "Take this shit to a phreaking list or site."

kind of offends me, but I wasn't complaining.

However, I will refrain from asking for some PIC code of this nature here on
the list.  I don't want to offend anyone.

John Mullan

{Original Message removed}

2000\12\10@160745 by John Mullan

picon face
YES!!!  I am not alone.

Sorry, one last hurrah.  Please, I didn't want this to turn into a flame
fest.  Especially toward James or other moderators.  I asked one quick
question.  I received a reply from a helpful PICster and some replies that
weren't expected.  Obviously the point being shown to me with the Q&A sent
to me.

Any further assistance (I guess) should be directed to my email directly.

Thanks

John Mullan


{Original Message removed}

2000\12\10@164351 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: John Mullan <.....jmullanKILLspamspam@spam@HOME.COM>
To: <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]:PSX mod chip for PSOne


> Sorry you feel this way Bob.  After all, it is PIC related.
>
> For those that feel there is something "illegitimate" about it, even VCRs
> can play "backup" games.  Modifying a game console to play "backup" games
> (of which you are allowed, by law, to have one backup copy if you own a
> copy) is perfectly OK.  And often it will allow you to play foreign
versions
> of games (which can't be a bad thing).
>
> So I'm not sure why you would like "this sort of talk" banned?  What seems
> to be the trouble?

Because you and I both know it has nothing to do with "backup" copies. It
has to do with software piracy.

I make my living selling software and I am INCENSED by the casual attitude
toward theft of intellectual property.

As mentioned before: there are plenty of other places for this hack/crack
crap. Let's keep it off PICLIST!

Also, the 'foreign version' issue has been discussed before. I've stated
that I feel that it is _foolish_ for content providers to limit content to a
certain region, but I will defend (perhaps not to the death) their right to
do so.

Remember: when you buy a CD/Video Game/VHS tape you are buying the physical
media, and a certain set of rights to use the content. For example: you
generally cannot show a VHS tape in any environment other than 'private home
viewing'. To go beyond the rights sold when you bought the CD/Video Game/VHS
tape is to STEAL (at least morally, if not always in law - often the law
broken is not a larceny law, but rather a copyright law).

whew... the air gets a bit thin way up here on this soapbox.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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2000\12\10@171653 by Bob Blick

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>I make my living selling software and I am INCENSED by the casual attitude
>toward theft of intellectual property.

Bob,

If I knew someone was stealing your software I'd give them hell and call
them slime on the PICLIST.

I consider video games slightly evil and will not lift a finger to do their
policing for them.

The world is not black and white(or all ones and zeros).

It's good to defend intellectual property, but ONLY if there is an
intellectual behind the property. Why waste your time defending Sony?

Let's defend the little guy for a change. Multinational corporations get
too many breaks already.

I'm not advocating theft. I'm suggesting we get sensible about who our
friends are. We aren't policemen, or lawyers, or judges. We're smart people
who invent things and we love to share ideas on the piclist.

Cheerful regards,

Bob Blick

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2000\12\10@210554 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
Bob Blick wrote:

> If I knew someone was stealing your software I'd give them hell and call
> them slime on the PICLIST.

And I'm sure they would care deeply and immediately make amends.  Yeah,
right.  People who live by different rules don't care what those who don't
live by those rules think.

> I consider video games slightly evil and will not lift a finger to do
their
> policing for them.
>
> The world is not black and white(or all ones and zeros).
>
> It's good to defend intellectual property, but ONLY if there is an
> intellectual behind the property. Why waste your time defending Sony?

So it's OK to steal from some people and not from others?  Is there a list
somewhere so that everyone can check to see who it's OK to steal from?  Who
gets to decide who goes on the list?  What if there are different lists and
someone else's list has YOUR name on it?  Would you agree not to get upset
if I stole from you as long as I can come up with some rational for doing so
(you've got a silly skin color, you're fat, your short, you're one of those
"college boy" intellectual snobs, you're one of "them" living in "that"
place, you've got those stupid looking round eyes, you've got those stupid
looking slanted eyes, etc, etc, etc  -  All these reasons have been used
before)?

I don't know anything about your personal situation, but since you are on
this list you are most likely "rich" compared to a great many people living
in third world countries.  They could easily use similar reasoning to yours
to decide that it's perfectly OK to break into your home and take what they
want.  Think about it.  This is the natural extension of your reasoning.  I
doubt this is really how you'd want the world to work.


*****************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, .....olinKILLspamspam.....embedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2000\12\10@212257 by Mike

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part 1 547 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii (decoded quoted-printable)

All right folks, this is getting ridiculous.  This thread is really starting
to degenerate right into a flame fest.  So everyone, please let's just kill
this thread.  If you *really* feel the need to continue a discussion of this
thread, do so offlist.
-- Mike Werner  KA8YSD   | He that is slow to believe anything and
PICList Admin #4      | everything is of great understanding,
'91 GS500E            | for belief in one false principle is the
Morgantown WV         | beginning of all unwisdom.



part 2 233 bytes content-type:application/pgp-signature (decode)

part 3 131 bytes
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2000\12\10@214536 by dre Domingos F. Souza

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>I don't know anything about your personal situation, but since you are on
>this list you are most likely "rich" compared to a great many people living
>in third world countries.  They could easily use similar reasoning to yours
>to decide that it's perfectly OK to break into your home and take what they
>want.  Think about it.  This is the natural extension of your reasoning.  I
>doubt this is really how you'd want the world to work.

       Epa! Go slow on this! I live in Brazil (yep, third world) and of course brazilians woudn't do that :oD

       And think all this started with a simple request...Hey people, the mod chip isn't used only for backups, remember this!


--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

       All the best!!!
       Alexandre Souza
       EraseMExandinhospam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTinterlink.com.br
       Linux User #85093

--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

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2000\12\10@222216 by Nick Taylor

picon face
> I don't know anything about your personal situation, but since you are on
> this list you are most likely "rich" compared to a great many people living
> in third world countries.  They could easily use similar reasoning to yours
> to decide that it's perfectly OK to break into your home and take what they
> want.  Think about it.  This is the natural extension of your reasoning.  I
> doubt this is really how you'd want the world to work.

Well, I'm from what you might call a "third world country" ... the mountains
of northern California ... where there are no sidewalks, few roads, and very
little law.  Most of us here think that it's perfectly OK to break into your
home and take what we want.  Think about it.  You and your capitalistic kind
have accumulated your ill gotten gains by taking advantage of those who are
less fortunate than you.  Knowledge is the property of everybody, not the
priviledged few !

-Nick

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2000\12\11@115619 by DERRICK, Keith

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Just on the "foreign version" issue, here's my 2c worth.

I've just moved from England to the US. I have a reasonable collection of
PSX games from before the move.

Between voltage differences and NTSC/PAL problems, there's no way to bring
my UK PSX to life. Fair enough, Im prepared to buy a new US console.

But *why* should I be forced to throw away all of my games? I rang Sony and
asked if they would cut me a deal - I send them my original PSC CD's (the
only kind I have) and they replace them with US ones (for a small admin
fee).

Here, I have done the "proper" thing. I paid full price for all the original
media. I do *not* use backup copies or pirated games. Wouldn't do so if I
could.

They basically said "tough shit" (in very nearly those words).

Now, I also have a couple of hundred pre-recorded videos. I am able to
purchase a multi-system VCR which will allow me to playback these PAL tapes
on a US TV.

Why shouldn't I have the ability to do this with my UK PSX games?

By Sony's logic, I should reformat the hard drive on my PC and buy all new
versions of my software packages as I am using the "European" version here
in the US!

Please don't be fooled by any excuses Sony offers for their regionalising
about being able to time the release of their products etc. It is purely a
scheme to allow them to gouge Europeans etc with much higher prices for the
same product.

On the video front, I had thought of switching the DVD and buying all my new
"tapes" in that format. However, I now discover that these are regionalised
as well!

This is more serious, as it means that the DVD player in a new PC won't play
foreign versions of films either!

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2000\12\11@192905 by John Mullan

picon face
OK.  So I admit that there are people out there making illegal copies of the
game CDs.  It's not my personal fight.  Should I also be shot if I repaired
someone's VCR when I knew they were going to copy tapes.  Depends on your
point of view.

Anyhow, after answering the replies I've inadvertantly created, I'm dropping
this thread.

John


{Original Message removed}

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