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'[PIC]:EasyProg Programmer With 10F200'
2005\08\28@195216 by Joe Jansen

picon face
All,

I have recently gotten an EasyProg Programmer. I bought it as a kit, and assembled it myself. I have programmed a couple of different DIP packaged chips in the ZIF socket, and it worked great.

I am trying to program a 10F200 chip in circuit. I have 8 boards built up, and none of them are working.

Hardware consists of a 4 conductor cable ( in-wall telephone wire ) soldered to a set of pogo-pins. When I run pic_prog, here is the result:

C:\B and I>pic_prog -PIC 10F200 -HEX 4sec10
Firmware is type EasyProg version 12 by Embed Inc.
The target chip is not a 10F200 or one of its variants as specified. This
may also indicate that there is no target chip of that the programmer is not
connected to the target.
*** Program aborted on error. ***

I decided to try another approach. I cut the wires from the ICSP connector, and stuck them into the positions on the ZIF socket.

Even though the socket works well on DIP packages, I still have no joy with the 10F's.

Note that since I am using 4 conductors, I have left off the Vdd line. I have Vpp, Gnd, ICDAT, and ICCLK connected. Because the circuit only has 1 signal line, I used pin 4 for the application. This means that the ICSP connections are not connected to any part of the circuit, other than gnd.

In the ZIF socket, I used pin 4 for Vpp, pin 5 as GND, 39 as CLK, and pin 40 as DAT.

Any suggestions, or anything I can check to get more info?

Thanks!

--Joe Jansen

2005\08\29@081851 by olin piclist

face picon face
Joe Jansen wrote:
> Hardware consists of a 4 conductor cable ( in-wall telephone wire )
> soldered to a set of pogo-pins. When I run pic_prog, here is the result:

The ICSP interface requires 5 wires: Vpp, Vdd, PGC, PGD, and GND.

> C:\B and I>pic_prog -PIC 10F200 -HEX 4sec10
> Firmware is type EasyProg version 12 by Embed Inc.
> The target chip is not a 10F200 or one of its variants as specified.
> This may also indicate that there is no target chip of that the
> programmer is not connected to the target.
> *** Program aborted on error. ***

This definitely indicates the problem is between the programmer and the
chip.  The PC is talking to the programmer, and you've got the latest
firmware.

> I decided to try another approach. I cut the wires from the ICSP
> connector, and stuck them into the positions on the ZIF socket.

Be careful here.  The EasyProg uses different pins on the ZIF socket for
different target chip types.  I don't think it's obvious from the
documentation available to you which pins it might use for a chip not
intended to be plugged into the ZIF socket in the first place.  If you don't
want to use the RJ-12 connector, the best alternative is the labeled pads
right next to the RJ-12 connector.

> Note that since I am using 4 conductors, I have left off the Vdd line.

The 10F200 use the Vdd before Vpp method to enter programming mode, so that
might actually work in this case.  However, Vdd then needs to be powered by
your circuit to 5V, and the circuit has to not interfere with Vpp, PGC, and
PGD.

> Because the circuit only has
> 1 signal line, I used pin 4 for the application. This means that the
> ICSP connections are not connected to any part of the circuit, other
> than gnd.

But the chip still needs to be powered.  If you're not letting the
programmer power the target chip, then the circuit has to do it.  And it has
to be to the 5v programming and bulk erase voltage, whether your circuit
runs it with a lower voltage or not.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\08\30@214317 by Joe Jansen

picon face
<snip>
>
>
> > C:\B and I>pic_prog -PIC 10F200 -HEX 4sec10
> > Firmware is type EasyProg version 12 by Embed Inc.
> > The target chip is not a 10F200 or one of its variants as specified.
> > This may also indicate that there is no target chip of that the
> > programmer is not connected to the target.
> > *** Program aborted on error. ***
>
> <snip>
>
> But the chip still needs to be powered. If you're not letting the
> programmer power the target chip, then the circuit has to do it. And it
> has
> to be to the 5v programming and bulk erase voltage, whether your circuit
> runs it with a lower voltage or not.
>
> OK, I re-wired my "fixture". I ran all 5 wires to the circuit. Still no joy, with the same message as above.

Does J1 need to be jumped in order to use the ICSP?

When I run pic_prog, I get a brief "solid state" on the LED, and then it goes back to dim.

In order to make sure that the chip wasn't damaged during soldering, I pulled a chip out of the tape, set it on the workbench, and tried programming the bare chip. Same result.

I am running out of ideas. If anyone has any other suggestions to check, let me know, please. I will keep trying on this end.

Olin, is there anything you can suggest to make sure that I built the programmer properly? Can I check continuity from P1-4 to P6, for example? What makes me curious is that I can program the DIP package that I have in the ZIF, but the ICSP isn't working.

Thanks for any help. I am already overdue for this project, but that is my fault, not any of yours.

--Joe

2005\08\31@080806 by olin piclist

face picon face
Joe Jansen wrote:
> OK, I re-wired my "fixture". I ran all 5 wires to the circuit. Still no
> joy, with the same message as above.

How much power does your circuit draw?  How much capacitance is from Vdd to
ground?  The EasyProg is intended for programming bare chips.  It can
perform in-circuit programming as long as the circuit around the target PIC
doesn't take much power (a few 10s of mA), doesn't have much capacitance (a
few uF), and otherwise mostly gets out of the way during programming.  It
might be a good idea to post your schematic.

> Does J1 need to be jumped in order to use the ICSP?

No, leave it open.  J1 is for debugging and disables the 5 second host
protocol timeout.

> When I run pic_prog, I get a brief "solid state" on the LED, and then it
> goes back to dim.

That makes sense.  This indicates that the programmer is talking to the PIC,
but the host gives up when the target chip can't be verified to be what you
specified.

> In order to make sure that the chip wasn't damaged during soldering, I
> pulled a chip out of the tape, set it on the workbench, and tried
> programming the bare chip. Same result.

That should have worked.  Either there is a problem with the programmer or
your connections to the bare chip.

> I am running out of ideas. If anyone has any other suggestions to
> check, let me know, please. I will keep trying on this end.

Forget about your circuit until you can program the bare target chip.
First, check the cable and the pinout to make sure that everything is wired
correctly.  You should be getting the programming lines from the labeled
bare pads or the RJ-12 connector, not the ZIF socket.  And there must not be
anything plugged into the ZIF socket at the same time.

If all that looks right, put a jumper on J1 and run TEST_PICPRG.  Do HELP to
see the list of commands, although that won't explaing them completely.  Put
a scope of voltmeter on the Vdd pin of the PIC and enter VDDNORM.  The Vdd
pin should jump to 5V.  Now enter VPPON.  The Vpp (MCLR) pin should jump
from 0V to about 13V.  Check Vdd and make sure it's still 5V.  Now check PGC
and enter CLKH.  It should jump from 0V to 5V.  Now same with PGD as you
enter DATH.  Do CLKL and verify that PGC is low but PGD remained high.  Do
QUIT to exit, which will also power down everything.

I expect you will find a problem with the above test sequence.  Don't forget
to remove J1 when done testing.

> Olin, is there anything you can suggest to make sure that I built the
> programmer properly? Can I check continuity from P1-4 to P6, for
> example? What makes me curious is that I can program the DIP package
> that I have in the ZIF, but the ICSP isn't working.

The EasyProg has two different Vdd and VPP drivers.  This is to support
different pinouts in the ZIF socket.  From page 1 of the schematic you can
see that only VDD18 and VPP-62X are used with the external programming
connections.  If either of these were broken, external programming wouldn't
work, but 28 and 40 pin PICs in the ZIF socket could still program
correctly.  Have you tried an 18 pin PIC in the ZIF socket, like a 16F627,
16F628, 16F648A?  Have you checked that you remembered to solder the bottom
of the RJ-12 connector?  It snaps in nicely and can feel properly mounted
without being soldered.  (Guess how I know this).


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com


'[PIC]:EasyProg Programmer With 10F200'
2005\09\07@220335 by Joe Jansen
picon face
OK, status update:

Everything seems to work except PGD. Data line is not switching at all.

I will update more once I get a chance to go over the prints. Any suggestions along the way are, of course, welcome.

--Joe Jansen

2005\09\08@080230 by olin piclist

face picon face
Joe Jansen wrote:
> OK, status update:
>
> Everything seems to work except PGD. Data line is not switching at all.
>
> I will update more once I get a chance to go over the prints. Any
> suggestions along the way are, of course, welcome.

Do you mean that the programmer can't control PGD even when it's not
connected, or that your circuit is loading PGD to the point that the
programmer can no longer drive it?

As a test, you can run TEST_PICPRG with the target disconnected from the
programmer.  The commands DATH and DATL should make PGD go high and low
respectively.  If they do when open but not when connected to your circuit,
then your circuit is loading the line too much.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\09\08@224434 by Joe Jansen

picon face
all of my tests were done with the lines floating. I did not have my circuit connected, as I figured that it may introduce variables like that. DATH and DATL were what I was using to attempt to drive it.

I will try finding an 18 pin DIP and see if that works. That should tell me what part of the circuit the problem is at.

Thanks for the assistance. Anything else is appreciated, as always!

--Joe Jansen

On 9/8/05, Olin Lathrop <spam_OUTolin_piclistTakeThisOuTspamembedinc.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2005\09\09@074326 by olin piclist

face picon face
Joe Jansen wrote:
> all of my tests were done with the lines floating. I did not have my
> circuit connected, as I figured that it may introduce variables like
> that. DATH and DATL were what I was using to attempt to drive it.
>
> I will try finding an 18 pin DIP and see if that works. That should
> tell me what part of the circuit the problem is at.

If DATH and DATL don't make the PGD line change accordingly with nothing
connected to the programmer, then there is definitely something broken.

Fortunately this should be easy to find.  From the schematic you can see
that PGD is driven by pin 2 of the 16F648A controller via the 2K ohm
resistor R25.  First check to make sure pin 2 responds to DATH and DATL
commands.  If so, then either R25 is open or the wrong value, or the other
end is shorted to ground.  If pin 2 doesn't respond to DATH/DATL, then it's
probably shorted to ground.  In that case try lifting R25 and inspecting the
trace carefully.  You can also remove the PIC and test resistance from pin 2
to ground.  It could also be a bad 16F648A, but that's not very likely.

Also remember to install the jumper J1 when using TEST_PICPRG.  If you
don't, the unit will reset to all lines off 5 seconds after receiving the
last command.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\09\17@002551 by Joe Jansen

picon face
I tried to reply again earlier, but apparently it didn't get through:

I didn't want to leave this thread hanging. The problem has been corrected. It turned out that the pogo pin for DAT had a bit of a solder bump that poked through the insulator and shorted to the GND pin. Once I tracked that down, everything worked great!

Thanks, Olin, for all the help. I have a much better appreciation for all the work that went into the design and testing of the EasyProg, and can definitely recommend it to anyone that is interested.

Thanks again!

--Joe Jansen

On 9/9/05, Olin Lathrop <.....olin_piclistKILLspamspam@spam@embedinc.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

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