Searching \ for '[PIC]:50 HZ sine wave from pic 16F84' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/math/index.htm?key=sine
Search entire site for: '50 HZ sine wave from pic 16F84'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[PIC]:50 HZ sine wave from pic 16F84'
2002\08\11@114310 by naveed yusuf

picon face
hi all !!
can some one guide me how to get 50Hz pure sine wave
from PIC 16F84. i want complete code not the
subroutines and patches. pl help me if some body has
good working code. I desperately require it. thanks.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\08\11@130543 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> can some one guide me how to get 50Hz pure sine wave
> from PIC 16F84.

Probably.

> i want complete code not the
> subroutines and patches.

Oh, and do you want us to come and clean your bathroom and serve you dinner
too?

I have done similar things before, but I don't have complete code that does
exactly what you want, so I can't help you.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\08\11@135632 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> > can some one guide me how to get 50Hz pure sine wave
> > from PIC 16F84.
>
> Probably.
>
> > i want complete code not the
> > subroutines and patches.
>
> Oh, and do you want us to come and clean your bathroom and serve you dinner
> too?
>
> I have done similar things before, but I don't have complete code that does
> exactly what you want, so I can't help you.

Depending on the part of the world, you can solder wires to pins 1 and 18
and plug them into the AC outlet. This will give you a very pure sine wave
from the F84. Of course, I should interject before Byron jumps in, that
the F628 will emit an even purer sine wave.

In the U.S. you'll have to resort to more difficult means:

http://www.dattalo.com/technical/software/pic/picsine.html

With a really trivial amount of thought, it can be made to do what you
want. I think. It depends on what a pure sine wave is.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\08\11@141747 by shawnmulligan

picon face
You (1) asked for a complete code solution and (2) metioned the PIC 16F84 in
the same post. Talk about stepping into a mine field!
Ask the list to (3) debug a large segment of undocumented code and you will
have achieved the PICList  'Hat Trick" or "Triple Crown" of shame ;-) I
highly recommend that you divert all remaining power to your shields and set
your phasors to stun.
-Shawn

{Quote hidden}

dinner
> > too?
> >
> > I have done similar things before, but I don't have complete code that
does
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\08\11@151813 by Eric Smith

flavicon
face
naveed yusuf <spam_OUTnaveedyuTakeThisOuTspamYAHOO.COM> writes:
> can some one guide me how to get 50Hz pure sine wave
> from PIC 16F84. i want complete code not the
> subroutines and patches. pl help me if some body has
> good working code. I desperately require it. thanks.

Sorry, it is not possible to produce a pure sine wave with
a PIC16F84.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\08\11@153103 by Pic Dude

flavicon
face
Hey Olin,

I've been really busy lately.  Could you come by and clean
my bathrooms?  There are only 2, should it shouldn't take
you more than a couple hours.

Cheers,
-Some wise ass.



> {Original Message removed}

2002\08\11@162122 by Rick C.

flavicon
face
Actually, you can't even get a "pure" sine wave from an AC outlet.
Rick

Eric Smith wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\08\11@163404 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> I  highly recommend that you divert all remaining power to your shields
and set
> your phasors to stun.

No No !!!!!!!!!
That should be - "Set bathrooms to kill."
I ...
Core containment failure
I can't hold it Capt'n. It's going to blow.
Warp factor 9, Mr S..
bzzzzzzzzzzt*


       R (dare I say it) M



* waste of a perfectly good 16F84

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\08\11@165053 by Eric Smith

flavicon
face
I wrote:
> Sorry, it is not possible to produce a pure sine wave with
> a PIC16F84.

"Rick C." <rixyspamKILLspamVVALLEY.COM> wrote:
> Actually, you can't even get a "pure" sine wave from an AC outlet. Rick

Actually, you can't even get a "pure" sine wave.  A "pure" sine wave is
found only as a mathematical abstraction.  Any real sine wave you find
will not be pure, if you examine it closely.

That was my point.  The original request was from someone who wanted
his work done for him without having to think about it.  So the
only coorect answer is that what he wanted simply can't be done.

If he was willing to spend some of his own time thinking about it and
using resources that are available online (including some on my web
site), he might find that what he *really* needs can be done with some
effort.  But I doubt that he'll have too many people volunteering to
do it for him.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\08\11@172129 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Hey Olin,
>
> I've been really busy lately.  Could you come by and clean
> my bathrooms?  There are only 2, should it shouldn't take
> you more than a couple hours.
>
> Cheers,
> -Some wise ass.

No, but maybe you can find some 16F84 code on the internet to do it for you.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\08\11@183214 by Shawn Mulligan

picon face
> > I've been really busy lately.  Could you come by and clean
> > my bathrooms?  There are only 2, should it shouldn't take
> > you more than a couple hours.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -Some wise ass.

Olin posted:
>No, but maybe you can find some 16F84 code on the internet to do it >for
>you.

Olin, this response borders on hillarious. Who wrote it? ;-)^2


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\08\11@211541 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
> naveed yusuf <.....naveedyuKILLspamspam.....YAHOO.COM> writes:
> > can some one guide me how to get 50Hz pure sine wave
> > from PIC 16F84. i want complete code not the
> > subroutines and patches. pl help me if some body has
> > good working code. I desperately require it. thanks.
>
> Sorry, it is not possible to produce a pure sine wave with
> a PIC16F84.

       I don't know why you'd say that. With some PWM and good low pass filtering
you can get a sine wave out of a PIC that is as good as most "normal" ways
of generating one. The limit really is what frequency you need, this process
only really works for sine waves in the 10k or lower range (the lower the
more pure). TTYL

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2002\08\12@010319 by Eric Smith

flavicon
face
naveed yusuf <EraseMEnaveedyuspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTYAHOO.COM> wrote:
> can some one guide me how to get 50Hz pure sine wave
> from PIC 16F84. i want complete code not the
> subroutines and patches. pl help me if some body has
> good working code. I desperately require it. thanks.

I wrote:
> Sorry, it is not possible to produce a pure sine wave with
> a PIC16F84.

Herbert Graf <mailinglistspamspam_OUTFARCITE.NET> wrote:
> I don't know why you'd say that. With some PWM and good low pass
> filtering you can get a sine wave out of a PIC that is as good as most
>"normal" ways of generating one. The limit really is what frequency you
> need, this process only really works for sine waves in the 10k or lower
> range (the lower the more pure). TTYL

Which is all perfectly true.  I've done it on a PIC16C5x, and the code
is on my web page.  But it's not what was asked for.  He wanted "complete
code", in fact, "good working code", to produce a "50 Hz pure sine wave".
The requirement is impossible, and even if it were possible, who is going
to volunteer to write the code for him?

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@021754 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
From: "naveed yusuf"
> can some one guide me how to get 50Hz pure sine wave
> from PIC 16F84. i want complete code not the
> subroutines and patches. pl help me if some body has
> good working code. I desperately require it. thanks.

Naveed

   (have I got that right?)(maybe I should use yusuf?)

You may be surpised by the large number of interesting responses to your
request

People here are very happy to help people who are trying hard to work things
out for themselves first before asking for help or who want help to learn
how to do things for themselves, but are usually not so pleased if people
seem not to have tried to find out how to solve the problem themselves first
before asking.

If you tell us what you are trying to use the result for and what you have
tried yourself so far it may help people underatand your needs and see how
you have been working towards solving them.

Answers to some (or all) of the following questions may help:

Have you tried doing this yourself and not suceeded?
Have you looked on the web for possible solutions?
Have you searched the excellent piclist archives at http://www.piclist.com?

What is this solution for?
Is it a class/school/university project or assignment or for a project of
your own or ... ???

Why do you not want subroutines and patches? Are you familiar with PIC code?
What other PIC projects have you done?

Why do you want to do it with a 16F84 particularly?

You say "pure sine wave". How pure do you NEED and why. No sine wave is
truly pure - how pure you aim at depends on what you are trying to achieve.
For example, you could low pass filter a 50 Hz square wave (which doesn't
need a PIC) and get quite a good result with a good enough filter. You could
use a "magic sine wave" sequence and get a better result for a given filter.
You could control something like a Wien bridge oscillator - but you don't
rwally need a PIC for this.

Why 50 Hz? How exact? Why ?etc

I hope these questions help you to tell us what you want to achieve and what
you have done so far.




       regards



                   Russell McMahon


PS - If you offered to clean Olin's bathrooms he may be more inclined to
help you :-)

(That's a PICList joke - ask about it once you get the other problem sorted
out).

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@041551 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> can some one guide me how to get 50Hz pure sine wave
> from PIC 16F84. i want complete code not the
> subroutines and patches. pl help me if some body has
> good working code. I desperately require it. thanks.

Sounds like an overdue assignment to me. You might google for 'magical
sine', do some programming and apply a little (analog) filtering.

Wouter van Ooijen
----------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@050906 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> > can some one guide me how to get 50Hz pure sine wave
> > from PIC 16F84. i want complete code not the
> > subroutines and patches. pl help me if some body has
> > good working code. I desperately require it. thanks.

> Sounds like an overdue assignment to me. You might google for 'magical
> sine', do some programming and apply a little (analog) filtering.

It does indeed.
If I had to put money on it I'd have to plump for that as highest
probability.
I also do not wish to encourage straight laziness and last minute
please-do-my-assignment-for-me-ing.

BUT

Not too far behind would be: English as a second language with limited
ability to express requirement succinctly, tried to make this work and
can't, found all sorts of stuff on the web ("subroutines and patches") and
it still doesn't pickle but, hey, this looks like a knowledgeable bunch of
guys (and gals) - maybe THEY can help me here; I'll muster my limited
English skills and ask them.

But what the hey guys (and gals), number one seems the highest probability
so lets go for that boots and all shall we?
If it's right (as it probably is) we'll certainly put (presumably) him in
his place, won't we. If it's wrong we'll probably scare him off on the first
encounter and won't need to be bothered anyway. Lets do it!



           R :-( M


PS:

That said, magic sine and analogue filtering are an excellent suggestion for
the problem as proposed. It seems a little improbable that this is in fact
the true & complete problem though as a 555 or 4040 or ... and a better
filter would do as well for that. Methinks some extra specification and
client feedback is required.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@052156 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> But what the hey guys (and gals), number one seems the
> highest probability
> so lets go for that boots and all shall we?
> If it's right (as it probably is) we'll certainly put
> (presumably) him in
> his place, won't we. If it's wrong we'll probably scare him
> off on the first
> encounter and won't need to be bothered anyway. Lets do it!

Russel, you might have noted that beside informing the guy that what he
posted sounds all too much like a student looking for an last-day
all-in-one solution for his assignment (which is a stupid thing to do,
as recent history shows this way of asking is not likely to get a
usefull response, so that part of my response *is* to the point and
usefull for the receiver if he ever wants to try a question again), I
also put him (a little bit) in the right direction, so if he just wants
a good hint, he might (with some more work! he guy, this is not heaven,
you will have to do *some* work!) be able to do his assignment. So
actually I went for *both* of your interpretations...

Wouter van Ooijen
----------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@062500 by Mike Singer

picon face
Russell,
the guy is a Human also, regadless of nation, religion etc.
You may not want spend your time teaching him basics.
But you shouldn't try to "scare him off on the first encounter",
I think, as you did.  If I was in his place, I certainly wouldn't be offended. But nobody knows in advance it about particular person especially from some countries.
As for me, it's not a constructive way to heighten tension (accidentally, of course) bettween folks now. :-)

Mike.

Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@072606 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> > But what the hey guys (and gals), number one seems the
> > highest probability
> > so lets go for that boots and all shall we?
> > If it's right (as it probably is) we'll certainly put
> > (presumably) him in
> > his place, won't we. If it's wrong we'll probably scare him
> > off on the first
> > encounter and won't need to be bothered anyway. Lets do it!
>
> Russel, you might have noted that beside informing the guy that what he
> posted sounds all too much like a student looking for an last-day
> all-in-one solution for his assignment

It does indeed

>(which is a stupid thing to do,
> as recent history shows this way of asking is not likely to get a
> usefull response,

Sure is :-)

> so that part of my response *is* to the point and
> usefull for the receiver if he ever wants to try a question again), I
> also put him (a little bit) in the right direction, so if he just wants
> a good hint, he might

Yes. I noticed - that was why I added the PS: at the end of my message.
I said

>>PS:
>>
>> That said, magic sine and analogue filtering are an excellent suggestion
for
>> the problem as proposed. It seems a little improbable that this is in
fact
>> the true & complete problem though as a 555 or 4040 or ... and a better
>> filter would do as well for that. Methinks some extra specification and
>> client feedback is required.

Yours was one of the more helpful messages as it gave a near ideal solution.
(I also suggested it in a private post to him)(great minds think alike
:-) ).

I wasn't meaning to complain about you specifically or only, it just
happened that that was the N'th post I had seen and it triggered me off -
more a general comment on our response to some of the more APPARENTLY lazy
and unwilling to help themselves.

       By all means we should encourage the lazy and unthinking
       to be industrious and curious

BUT we should also be careful about not scaring off those who simply cannot
commicate well.

I've noticed that the most apparently demanding messages are also often the
shortest and phrased in less than perfect English. One could conclude that
there is a correlation between laziness and lack of erudition but I suspect
it is sometimes a correlation between message length and lack of English as
a first language.

> (with some more work! he guy, this is not heaven,

No - only PICList :-)

> you will have to do *some* work!) be able to do his assignment. So
> actually I went for *both* of your interpretations...

I agree.
Not everyone was as helpful.


       Russell

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@083425 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
~Russell,
~the guy is a Human also, regadless of nation, religion etc.
~You may not want spend your time teaching him basics.
~But you shouldn't try to "scare him off on the first encounter",
~I think, as you did.
~ If I was in his place, I certainly wouldn't be offended. But
~nobody knows in advance it about particular person
~especially from some countries.
~ As for me, it's not a constructive way to heighten tension
~(accidentally, of course) bettween folks now. :-)
~ Mike.

Mike -
I'm misunderstood here - my answer may have lost a bit of meaning on
"translation" - I'm sorry that I didn't make myself clear enough.

I was actually saying just the opposite of what you have understood me as
saying. I'm sorry that I didn't make my point clearly enough. But you have
in fact helped make the point that I was trying to make - that is, when
dealing with people for whom English is NOT their first language. what may
SEEM like laziness or rudeness CAN be mainly or completely a result of their
lack of grasp of English. We want to encourage such people - not chase them
away.

This was meant to be an attempt at humorous sarcasm - something which can go
rather astray across language boundaries. Maybe I should not have been quite
so "clever". If you read my post carefully along with the following notes
you may see what I really meant -

Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>Russell McMahon wrote:
> > But what the hey guys (and gals),

This is an expression from a popular american cartoonist - it means "what
does it matter" or similar and is normally said jokingly when it really
SHOULD matter. (Sometimes it means "what has happened here?")  I had just
pointed out in the previous paragraph that while it is MOST likely that the
person is being lazy (which everybody had assumed was the case) it is also
quite possible that they are simply not good at English to make themselves
understood well.

>> number one seems the
> > highest probability
> > so lets go for that boots and all shall we?

This is the (attempt at ) sarcasm.
I'm saying "why bother that we may have got it wrong?"
What I MEAN is "we should care that we MIGHT have got it wrong."
The trouble with sarcasm is, if people don't understand that is what you
mean, then they get exactly the opposite meaning from what you say.

> > If it's right (as it probably is) we'll certainly put
> > (presumably) him in
> > his place, won't we.

Truth. But also a slightly sarcastic comment on rudeness.
"put him in his place" is a "snobbish " English expression which means that
a person is less important etc than they think they are and that people have
made them aware of this fact. It is an elitist and unpleasant concept which
"nice" :-) people would not want to be associated with.

>> If it's wrong we'll probably scare him
> > off on the first
> > encounter and won't need to be bothered anyway. Lets do it!

Also true, Also sarcasm. I'm suggesting that we are happy to scare off
beginners. This is what might happen in this case, but not what we would
want to happen.

You may have noticed an earlier post by me on this subject where I pointed
out how he might better ask questions on the PICList if he wanted a useful
answer. I also pointed out why the answers that many people had given were
"interesting" (sometimes a polite term for rude :-) ). I also pointed out
about magic sine waves with filters (before Wouter did)(we both thought
alike) and suggested he look at the piclist archives. I also mentioned Wien
bridge oscillators and asked some technical questions about eg why he wanted
exactly 50 Hz and how much purity he really wanted.

Our combined responses do indeed seem to have scared him away. We can be a
fierce lot sometimes ;-)



       Russell

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@090637 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> But you have
> in fact helped make the point that I was trying to make - that is, when
> dealing with people for whom English is NOT their first language. what may
> SEEM like laziness or rudeness CAN be mainly or completely a result of
their
> lack of grasp of English. We want to encourage such people - not chase
them
> away.

Only to a point.  This is an *English* speaking list.  Nobody has to post
here.  We hold no monopoly on email lists talking about PICs or any other
subject.  If someone doesn't like the fact that this is an English speaking
list, they can go start their own list in whatever language they like.

I'm not trying to be elitist, merely selfishly looking out for my own time
and comfort.  I can deal with a little broken English, but don't want to
(and won't) waste a lot of time second guessing what might really really be
meant by a post.  If someone is asking me for a favor, it's their job to
communicate with me the way I ask.  If they don't like it, oh well.  I've
got plenty of other things to do.

Also, I don't think broken English is the barrier you make it out to be.
For example see posts from Vasily.  He obviously struggles with English, but
in the end you can usually get the general idea of what he is trying to say.
He also comes accross quite clearly as a nice guy who is trying to help
rather than an arrogant ingrate who wants someone else to do all the work
for him.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@092052 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> Also, I don't think broken English is the barrier you make it out to be.

I think it varies widely from "hardly an issue" through to "almost
insurmountable barrier".
For instance, Mike has on several occasions taken almost exactly the
opposite meaning from my posts that I intended. This is sometimes my fault
for using language jargon (as it were) which is likely to really be well
understood only via very competent English speaker. But on some past
occasions its come as quite a surprise.

I don't think this is an expecially critical point but I do suspect we may
get it wrong often enough to be a little more careful than we collectively
are. Cleaning bathrooms and the like is all good fun but a few magic sine
waves and filters thrown into the same post (as Wouter did) is probably a
good idea. I have only one bathroom here (but two WCs) so I'm immune from
that particular offer :-)


       Russell

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@105436 by Mike Singer

picon face
Russell,
I should place in my message as much :-) faces as you
had placed "sorry" word in yours. Don't monopolize the
word, please. Share it with Olin, if possible. Without this
word he looks like being absolutely sure of his rightfulness
unbending communist leader Fidel Castro for example. :-)
Should I compare him with other English speaking guy
Hamlet with his feeble "to be; or not to be". :-)

Mike. :-)
---------------------------
PS: I wish I had written skills in Russian, as excellent as
      you have in English.

Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Russell McMahon wrote:
oo But you have
oo in fact helped make the point that I was trying to make - that is,
oo when dealing with people for whom English is NOT their first
oo language. what may SEEM like laziness or rudeness CAN be
oo mainly or completely a result of their lack of grasp of English.
oo We want to encourage such people - not chase them away.

> Only to a point.  This is an *English* speaking list.  Nobody has to
post
> here.  We hold no monopoly on email lists talking about PICs or any
other
> subject.  If someone doesn't like the fact that this is an English
speaking
> list, they can go start their own list in whatever language they like.

> I'm not trying to be elitist, merely selfishly looking out for my own
time
> and comfort.  I can deal with a little broken English, but don't want
to
> (and won't) waste a lot of time second guessing what might really
really be
> meant by a post.  If someone is asking me for a favor, it's their job
to
> communicate with me the way I ask.  If they don't like it, oh well.
I've
> got plenty of other things to do.
>
> Also, I don't think broken English is the barrier you make it out to
be.
> For example see posts from Vasily.  He obviously struggles with
English, but
> in the end you can usually get the general idea of what he is trying
to say.
> He also comes accross quite clearly as a nice guy who is trying to
help
> rather than an arrogant ingrate who wants someone else to do all the
work
> for him.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@112841 by Pic Dude

flavicon
face
Olin Lathrop scribbled:

> ...  This is an *English* speaking list.  Nobody has to post here.
> We hold no monopoly on email lists talking about PICs or any other
> subject.  If someone doesn't like the fact that this is an English
> speaking list, they can go start their own list in whatever language
> they like. ...

I *usually* don't get into discussions such as this, but this
is kind of harsh isn't it?  Where do you draw the line on when
someone is English-speaking enough to post on this list?  I know
many native English speakers who make mistakes.  Should we have
English and spelling tests as PIClist entrance requirements?

And I don't think that they did 'not like the fact that this
is an English speaking list'.  I think you did not like the
fact that they were not 100% English speaking.

> If someone is asking me for a favor, it's their job to communicate
> with me the way I ask.  If they don't like it, oh well.  I've got
> plenty of other things to do.

Exactly.  Ignore and move on.

Whereas I agree with some of what you say, remember also
that you have no obligation to respond to someone you think
is trying to get the list to do their work for them.

If enough people feel that way, the poster will be ignored
and go away eventually, and the "problem" will be "solved".
I think a couple messages from such a poster would be less
of an annoyance than the many emails generated by discussing
this issue... as we're doing here.

And if others want to help, then so be it.

As the internet and other forms of communications improvements
make the world virtually smaller, we're going to have to learn
to deal with some of these language and cultural barriers.

Cheers,
-Neil "still waiting on getting my bathrooms cleaned" N.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@123741 by lexandre_Guimar=E3es?=

flavicon
face
Hi, Olin

> Only to a point.  This is an *English* speaking list.  Nobody has to post
> here.  We hold no monopoly on email lists talking about PICs or any other
> subject.  If someone doesn't like the fact that this is an English
speaking
> list, they can go start their own list in whatever language they like.

   It is indeed an english speaking list, even if that is not clearly
stated when we sign in. The fact is that in "modern" World english is the
"defacto" standard for technical matters and as such all lists tend to
happen in english. And remember that the guy has put his question in English
but having it as a second or third language makes us much less proficient at
it.

> I'm not trying to be elitist, merely selfishly looking out for my own time
> and comfort.  I can deal with a little broken English, but don't want to
> (and won't) waste a lot of time second guessing what might really really
be
> meant by a post.  If someone is asking me for a favor, it's their job to
> communicate with me the way I ask.  If they don't like it, oh well.  I've
> got plenty of other things to do.

   Try to look at from other view. It will happen someday that some
"stranger" will have the best solution for a problem that you are having a
hard time with !! Do not underestimate the knowledge from abroad, specially
when dealing with the "old soviet empire". People from that region have lots
of knowledge and many times are not goog english speakers. We might have
many "hidden" talents of the list that do not show up because they are
afraid to speak bad english ! Being "nice" to bad english writers maybe the
best "selfish" thing to do !! They may help out if you let them free :-)

> Also, I don't think broken English is the barrier you make it out to be.
> For example see posts from Vasily.  He obviously struggles with English,
but
> in the end you can usually get the general idea of what he is trying to
say.
> He also comes accross quite clearly as a nice guy who is trying to help
> rather than an arrogant ingrate who wants someone else to do all the work
> for him.

   Be extra carefull when judging what people from the orient say !!
Vasily, myself and people with languages that had heavy latin origins can
undertand and express in english much better than people with arabic,
chinese or japanese origins. Their languages and cultures are so much
different from ours that things have "weird" meanings to them. The guy who
asked for help is PROBABLY just being lazy but I am not so sure about it. He
may be really a bad english speaker.

   Variety of cultures and experiences is one of the things that make the
Piclist so nice. In my opinion we should try to encourage people with bad
english to come and share their experiences. I know I am being "selfish" on
this one ;-) My english sometimes is as bad as it gets but I do not mind
people telling me that. Sometimes I reread my messages after posting and
just wait for someone to understand the opposite of what I am trying to say
!

Best regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\08\12@154347 by Mike Singer

picon face
Russell McMahon wrote:
^ For instance, Mike has on several occasions taken almost exactly the
^ opposite meaning from my posts that I intended. This is sometimes my
fault
^ for using language jargon (as it were) which is likely to really be
well
^ understood only via very competent English speaker. But on some past
^ occasions its come as quite a surprise.

Russell,
I can't agree that "I have taken almost exactly the opposite
meaning from your posts". I just have tried to show that
"opposite meaning" could be easily derived from your posts
for many non "very competent English speakers" - PICList
members.
As for me, I hope, I felt the mood of your postings and
approximated  missed points when sometime didn't grasp
exact meaning.

Mike.
PS:
  Thank you for the support when discussing beginner's PICs.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2002 , 2003 only
- Today
- New search...