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'[PIC]:18F452 Programmers'
2002\09\17@151301 by Alex Monaghan

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I've seen many "quick & dirty" programmers for the 16X range of PIC's, I've
looked on the FAQ, but can see no mention of anything suitable for the
18F452. This (as I understand it) is pin compatible with the 16F877.

Being a "newbie" looking to get started but needing plenty of IO, this looks
the ideal PIC to go with, but I need to be able to program it. Will the
com84 or JDM type of programmer work OK with the 18F series ? I don't really
want to go to the expense of a WARP or similar programmer simply to
experiment as this will end up paying more to program the thing than it will
to make my IO board.

Does anyone else use the 18F series ? If so what programmers do you use ?

Thanks in advance

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2002\09\17@152952 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> Does anyone else use the 18F series ? If so what programmers
> do you use ?

Hardwarewise there is no important difference between 18f and the older
16f's, but the software must be adapted.

You could check http://www.ic-prog.com.

I sell the wisp628 kit: http://www.voti.nl/wisp628.

Wouter van Ooijen

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2002\09\17@163123 by Byron A Jeff

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On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 08:01:14PM +0100, Alex Monaghan wrote:
> I've seen many "quick & dirty" programmers for the 16X range of PIC's, I've
> looked on the FAQ, but can see no mention of anything suitable for the
> 18F452. This (as I understand it) is pin compatible with the 16F877.

And that's about where any comparison ends.

As one of those "quick & dirty" programmer developers I feel compelled to
respond.

>
> Being a "newbie" looking to get started but needing plenty of IO, this looks
> the ideal PIC to go with, but I need to be able to program it. Will the
> com84 or JDM type of programmer work OK with the 18F series ?

Not without a software upgrade. The programming algorithm for the 18[C/F]
family of chips are quite different than the 16F. In fact even the 16F87XA
(note the A on the end) is different than the others.

> I don't really
> want to go to the expense of a WARP or similar programmer simply to
> experiment as this will end up paying more to program the thing than it will
> to make my IO board.

True. BTW the hardware for programming is pretty much the same except that
if you want LVP the PGM pin has moved from RB3 to RB5.

>
> Does anyone else use the 18F series ? If so what programmers do you use ?

I'm still trying to get into the game. I plan to update my copy of picprg2.3e
(renaming to picprg2.4 when done) to program 18F parts just as soon as I can
get some in hand. Wouter's WISP628 does it now. As usually Wouter is the man!

BAJ

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2002\09\18@020623 by Michael Simpson

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I use the 18F Series.   I use both the pick start plus and the warp 13 to
program em.   Have not found any others that work very well.  Even the
microchip Pickstart plus is very touchy.  I find I have to reset the darn
thing quite a bit.   Also look for a lot longer program times.  With the pic
start plus it takes 1-2 minutes to program a 252 or 452 chip.   The Warp 13
can do it in 20 seconds with verify.

For the fastest programming I wrote my own bootloader and use two serial
pins.  It has been a uphill battle all the way.  Very little support from
micro chip.  No information out on the web about the 18x series.   Also
hardly no libraries avialable.  For instance I need a floating point library
and looks like Im going to have to go through the messy and long task of
porting the 16x or 17x series.

Another thing I have found out.   The only way I have been able to get 40mhz
out of the chip is to use the PLL built into the chip.  This works fine but
it make the chip very sensitive to EMF.   If I place the chip to close to
batteries running a motor the PLL circ drops out and The chip tries to run
at half the speed.

If I were to start all over I probably would have chosen another chip and
another manufacture.  But Im at the point of no return so Im stuck.

BTW dont bother posting on the microchip conference.   I have posted several
questions on the board and some are almost a month old and have not been
answered.


{Original Message removed}

2002\09\18@022027 by cdb

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Microsoft have the new bootloader on their website app note AN851.

I've downloaded some 18 series floating point routines but can't
remember where from.

However http://www.picbook.com has some for download and I was I"m sure that
the last time I downloaded the trial version of MC 'C' it had
floating point routines.

http://www.fored.co.uk have a 18F capable programmer for sale.

Colin

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2002\09\18@022458 by smail B - CTD, Chennai.

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Microsoft????... May be Microchip.

B.Mohamed Ismail,
HCL Technologies Ltd.,
D-12 & 12-B, 3rd south street,
SIDCO Industrial Estate,
Ambattur, Chennai - 600 058.
India.


{Original Message removed}

2002\09\19@121032 by Mike Mansheim

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Michael Simpson wrote:
> I use the 18F Series.   I use both the pick start plus and the warp 13
> to program em.   Have not found any others that work very well.  Even
> the microchip Pickstart plus is very touchy.  I find I have to reset
> the darn thing quite a bit.   Also look for a lot longer program
> times.  With the pic start plus it takes 1-2 minutes to program a 252
> or 452 chip.   The Warp 13 can do it in 20 seconds with verify.

I didn't mention this before, because it looked like the OP was only
interested in cheap programmers.  But I might as well point out that I
use Microchip's Promate II to program the 18F series, and have had no
problems.
Regarding speed, I was impressed with how much faster the 18F's program
compared to the 16F's, which I assume is due to changes in the flash.
With the promate, I can program an 18F452 in about 17 seconds, which
includes verify at 3 voltage levels.  Just the programming takes about
12 seconds.

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2002\09\19@180935 by Michael Simpson

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I had contemplated purchasing the Promate II but based on how crappy the PIC
START PLUS operated I was not willing to through good money after bad.


{Original Message removed}

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