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'[PIC]: speaking of bootloaders...'
2006\10\16@120201 by alan smith

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Do all the 18F have the ability to support a bootloader?  If not, how does one determine if it can?
               
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2006\10\16@121610 by Harold Hallikainen

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> Do all the 18F have the ability to support a bootloader?  If not, how does
> one determine if it can?
>

It SEEMS to be related to whether the chip has eeprom or not. If it does,
I think you can generally bootload the flash. Otherwise, you cannot. Seems
to work so far...

Harold


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2006\10\16@140536 by Bob Axtell

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Harold Hallikainen wrote:
>> Do all the 18F have the ability to support a bootloader?  If not, how does
>> one determine if it can?
>>
>>    
>
> It SEEMS to be related to whether the chip has eeprom or not. If it does,
> I think you can generally bootload the flash. Otherwise, you cannot. Seems
> to work so far...
>
> Harold
>
>
>  
It is related to whether the chip is able to change its own data memory
without being in programming mode.
The PIC16F87/88 can do it; the PIC16F818/819 cannot. The PIC16F876A can
do it, the PIC16F876
cannot.

One clue is that chips that are supported in Debug mode by the ICD2 can
almost all do it.

--Bob

2006\10\16@141822 by peter green

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> > Do all the 18F have the ability to support a bootloader?  If
> not, how does
> > one determine if it can?
> >
>
> It SEEMS to be related to whether the chip has eeprom or not. If it does,
> I think you can generally bootload the flash. Otherwise, you cannot. Seems
> to work so far...

what 18 series chips do you know of that can't self program?

given that every second gen 18 series flash chip i know of is covered by one
programming spec and that programming spec is very similar to the self write
sequence i'd be surprised if there were any that weren't.

the only 18 series chips without eeprom i know of the top of my head are the
2450 and 4450 and according to thier datasheets they can self write to
flash.

2006\10\16@142427 by peter green

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> It is related to whether the chip is able to change its own data memory
> without being in programming mode.
> The PIC16F87/88 can do it; the PIC16F818/819 cannot. The PIC16F876A can
> do it, the PIC16F876
> cannot.

the datasheet for the 876, 877 and friends has a section on writing to flash
program memory and the ICD2 contains an 16f877 with a bootloader on it (a
lot of clones use an 877a instead with modified bootloader code).


2006\10\16@144320 by Mike Harrison

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On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:17:36 +0100, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Look for "Enhanced Flash", this means bootloadable and LVP.  Standard flash means HV program only.
Note that a while ago there were a few errors in the comparison table on the Microchip site - not
sure if they've fixed them yet, and the '87x was mis-labelled as it came out before they settled on
that nomenclature.

2006\10\16@150140 by stef mientki

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Bob Axtell wrote:
> Harold Hallikainen wrote:
>  
>>> Do all the 18F have the ability to support a bootloader?  If not, how does
>>> one determine if it can?
>>>
>>>    
>>>      
>> It SEEMS to be related to whether the chip has eeprom or not. If it does,
>> I think you can generally bootload the flash. Otherwise, you cannot. Seems
>> to work so far...
>>
>> Harold
>>
>>
>>  
>>    
> It is related to whether the chip is able to change its own data memory
> without being in programming mode.
> The PIC16F87/88 can do it; the PIC16F818/819 cannot.
Sure it can (see page 27)!!
>  The PIC16F876A can
> do it, the PIC16F876
> cannot.
>  
Sure it can !!
The chips need "enhanced eeprom",
which has nothing to do with debug mode.
But as far as I can remember all 16F chips that has "enhanced eeprom",
supports ICD.

Stef Mientki

2006\10\16@151720 by peter green

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>
> Look for "Enhanced Flash", this means bootloadable and LVP.
> Standard flash means HV program only.
all the first gen 18 series chips i've looked at are labeled as standard
flash yet are capable of self programming.



2006\10\16@164806 by olin piclist

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Bob Axtell wrote:
> the PIC16F876 cannot.

Yes it can.

********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2006\10\16@184259 by Bob Axtell

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Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Bob Axtell wrote:
>  
>> the PIC16F876 cannot.
>>    
>
> Yes it can.
>
> ********************************************************************
> Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
> (978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.
>  
Sorry, that's right. What does "Gold level" mean?

--Bob

2006\10\16@195948 by olin piclist

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Bob Axtell wrote:
> What does "Gold level" mean?

Microchip has three levels of certified PIC consultants: bronze, silver, and
gold.  A year or two ago there were around 350 PIC consultants worldwide,
and 35-50 of them were gold.  I'm sure the numbers have gone up since then.
I also heard that the fraction of gold was getting larger, and that they
might raise the bar a bit as a result.

The rating is based on activity with a scoring system I don't fully
understand.  We ended up with the highest score of all consultants in the
2004 program year.  This year at Masters I didn't hear anything about how we
did relative to the others for the 2005 program year other than we were
solidly in the gold catagory.  In the end the level is only a rough
indicator of experience to customers.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2006\10\16@204129 by Bob Axtell

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Olin Lathrop wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Thanks. Your accomplishments stand out.

I never took the program very seriously in the early days. Maybe in my
next life... oops, no,
in my next life I have decided to be a dentist. Home nights, marry the
pretty assistant, lotsa
money, etc.

--Bob


2006\10\17@051748 by Tamas Rudnai

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> I never took the program very seriously in the early days. Maybe in my
next life... oops, no,
> in my next life I have decided to be a dentist. Home nights, marry the
pretty assistant, lotsa
> money, etc.

I have never believed in reincarnation at least non any of my previous lives
-- still do not believe, maybe at the next one :-)

Tamas


On 17/10/06, Bob Axtell <spam_OUTengineerTakeThisOuTspamneomailbox.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

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