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'[PIC]: You gotta be kidding me (PIC18FXX20 Rev A3)'
2003\08\03@082751 by Bob Ammerman

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Received from mChip:

Microchip has released a new Errata sheet for the PIC18FXX20 Rev. A3
Silicon/Data Sheet Errata family of devices.  If you are currently using
one of these devices please read the document located at
http://www.microchip.com/download/lit/suppdoc/errata/80129F.pdf.

4MHz of less operating speed is ok

Anything over 4 can break.

Yech.

What a bogus thing.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

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2003\08\03@091642 by

picon face
Phu !
You scared me for a minute.
I thought this was about the 18F1220/1320
that I'm currently designing with.

But it's about the "PIC18F8720/8620/6720/6620"
according to the errata sheet.

So I'm safe...

Jan-Erik.

Bob Ammerman wrote:
> Microchip has released a new Errata sheet for the PIC18FXX20 Rev. A3
> Silicon/Data Sheet Errata family of devices.  If you are currently using
> one of these devices please read the document located at
> http://www.microchip.com/download/lit/suppdoc/errata/80129F.pdf.

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2003\08\03@101627 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Microchip has released a new Errata sheet for the PIC18FXX20 Rev. A3
> Silicon/Data Sheet Errata family of devices.  If you are currently using
> one of these devices please read the document located at
> http://www.microchip.com/download/lit/suppdoc/errata/80129F.pdf.
>
> 4MHz of less operating speed is ok
>
> Anything over 4 can break.
>
> Yech.
>
> What a bogus thing.

At least they finally fessed up.  I found and reported this problem months
ago, and it took them a month just to get back to me and admit privately
that there is indeed a problem.  This bug cost me real $$ since I wasted
time on a fixed price project chasing it.  Naturally I didn't start out
assuming the processor wasn't executing instructions properly.

Until now, I thought 20MHz was the minimum working speed according to my
own tests.  4MHz!!!  That's useless!!!  They must have had complete idiots
working on this design if they didn't catch a timing path that was off by
a factor of 10.  Yech is right!

I also complained to the head of the division at Masters that Microchip
was covering up this very serious bug.  He claimed to not know anything
about it and gave the impression he didn't believe me, but did say he'd
look into it.  If I was the head of the division, I'd be royally pissed
that 1) something this blatantly busted ever got shipped in the first
place, and 2) that I had to find out about it from someone outside
Microchip.  If he really didn't know about this before, I can imagine some
cages got rattled pretty hard.  It may not be a coincidence that this
errata came out 1 1/2 weeks after Masters.


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2003\08\03@102812 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Phu !
> You scared me for a minute.
> I thought this was about the 18F1220/1320
> that I'm currently designing with.
>
> But it's about the "PIC18F8720/8620/6720/6620"
> according to the errata sheet.

Oh, I didn't notice that either.  I just saw 18Fxx20 and assumed it
included the 18F1320.

> So I'm safe...

No, you're not.  I discovered a bug that matches this description on an
18F1320 and it was confirmed by Microchip.  So far I have assumed these
goto 20MHz, but that was only my testing a few parts on my code at room
temperature.  Until a difinitive errata is released for the 18F1320, I
would assume they have the same problem.  I'm staying away from
18F1320/1220 above 4MHz until this issue is properly clarified by
Microchip.


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2003\08\03@145544 by

picon face
Hm, I'm currently developing using 8 Mhz INTOSC
on a 18F1320 (targeting a 18F1220 if the code
stays < 2 Kwords.

Could do down to 4 Mhz I think without major
problems...
Question is if one dare to use them at all.

It would be easy to switch to a 18F242 also
(with xtal or ceramic resonator)...

Jan-Erik.

Olin Lathrop wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\08\03@195343 by Matt Pobursky

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On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 08:26:26 -0400, Bob Ammerman wrote:
> Received from mChip:
>
> Microchip has released a new Errata sheet for the PIC18FXX20 Rev. A3
> Silicon/Data Sheet Errata family of devices.  If you are currently
> using one of these devices please read the document located at
> http://www.microchip.com/download/lit/suppdoc/errata/80129F.pdf.
>
> 4MHz of less operating speed is ok
>
> Anything over 4 can break.
>
> Yech.
>
> What a bogus thing.

Well this sucks royally. I just designed the 18F6X20 into a new design.
I need 20 MHz, PSP and two hardware UARTS. Ugghh. And this was the
first Microchip design win for me after several MSP430 jobs. Hmmm...
have to think of where I'll go from here.

Glad they fessed up at least. Seems like they've been slow/reluctant to
admit serious problems with several of the 18F parts.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

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2003\08\03@204740 by Ishaan Dalal

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So what is Microchip's responsibility to its customers and developers who
are already using erroneous silicon in their products? Sounds to me like
they get away scot-free....

Cheers,
Ishaan

{Original Message removed}

2003\08\03@205634 by Douglas Wood

picon face
Matt,

Considering your 18F design win, you might have to rethink your company's
name; maybe call it "Less Than Mazimum Performance Systems"? :^)

Douglas Wood
Software Engineer
KILLspamdbwoodKILLspamspamkc.rr.com
ICQ#: 143841506

Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC
http://epicis.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

2003\08\03@223133 by Matt Pobursky

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On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 19:54:39 -0500, Douglas Wood wrote:
> Matt,
>
> Considering your 18F design win, you might have to rethink your
> company's name; maybe call it "Less Than Mazimum Performance
> Systems"? :^)

Hehehe... tell me about it! I had been bugging Microchip about a part
like the 18FXX20 for a couple years now. They finally come out with it
and it's severely broken!

This is one of those "10 lbs. of stuff in a 5 lb. bag" designs too. A
peripheral controller for another CPU that does multiple functions and
has about 1" sq. of PCB space to do it.

Matt Pobursky

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2003\08\03@234412 by David Huisman

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Do you know how this potential instruction corruption when the part is
used above 4MHz (for Rev A3 silicon) effects the PLL ?

Will the part work reliably if using 4MHz crystal and x4 multiplier.

We are developing a system using 18F6720 running at 10MHz.
The revision is the dreaded V3.0

I have been running with ICD2 only but so far have not observed any strange behaviour.
Kind Regards

David Huisman

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2003\08\04@060925 by hael Rigby-Jones

picon face
> On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 08:26:26 -0400, Bob Ammerman wrote:
> > Received from mChip:
> >
> > Microchip has released a new Errata sheet for the PIC18FXX20 Rev. A3
> > Silicon/Data Sheet Errata family of devices.  If you are currently
> > using one of these devices please read the document located at
> > www.microchip.com/download/lit/suppdoc/errata/80129F.pdf.
> >
> > 4MHz of less operating speed is ok
> >
> > Anything over 4 can break.
> >
> > Yech.
> >
> > What a bogus thing.
>
> {Original Message removed}

2003\08\04@061755 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I have many hundreds of products in the field using the 6620 and 8620, all
>running at 8MHz so this is a big worry.  However, I haven't seen any
>evidence of the problem over full temperature and voltage range testing,
but
>all products use the LF parts which the errata doesn't specifically
mention.

Sounds like it is time for everyone to bombard microchip demanding to know
when this problem will be fixed.

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2003\08\04@074413 by Brent Brown

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On 4 Aug 2003 at 11:18, Alan B. Pearce wrote:

> >I have many hundreds of products in the field using the 6620 and
> >8620, all running at 8MHz so this is a big worry.  However, I haven't
> >seen any evidence of the problem over full temperature and voltage
> >range testing,
> but
> >all products use the LF parts which the errata doesn't specifically
> mention.
>
> Sounds like it is time for everyone to bombard microchip demanding to
> know when this problem will be fixed.

Well according to the errata doc Microchip say "This problem is
specific to Rev. A3 silicon, and has been resolved by Rev. A4 of the
silicon." Hope that means Rev. A4 chips are available now.

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2003\08\04@082641 by Micro Eng

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Olin....you know sometimes the head guy gets told what he wants to hear, not
the actual truth.


{Quote hidden}

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2003\08\04@084717 by t

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Hi,

Just out of sheer curiousity, can anyone reveal any
specific code sequences that triggered the malfunction
on the A3 silicons?

Trevor



Quoting Brent Brown <RemoveMEbrent.brownKILLspamspamCLEAR.NET.NZ>:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\08\04@090649 by hael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

ISTR that someone recently posted some information on how to link the
silicon revision code with the numeric code you get from reading the device
with an ICD or programmer, can anyone remember where this information can be
found?

Regards

Mike


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2003\08\04@114026 by Tal

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It is only a corruption of "a few bits". Not a big deal.

;-)

Tal

{Quote hidden}

f.

4MHz of less operating speed is ok

Anything over 4 can break.

Yech.

What a bogus thing.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

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2003\08\04@150233 by Robert Rolf

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Tal wrote:
>
> It is only a corruption of "a few bits". Not a big deal.
>
> ;-)
>
> Tal

Nor is the problem with table reads when cold <G>.

1. Module: Core
Performing table read operations above the user
program memory space (addresses over
1FFFFFh) may yield erroneous results at the
extreme low end of the device’s rated temperature
range (-40°C).
....
Date Codes that pertain to this issue:
All engineering and production devices.

So A4 is NOT exempt from this bug.

I guess they forgot that some of us our PIC's in Canadian winters
up north where -40C common.

> > {Original Message removed}

2003\08\04@160024 by gtyler

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face
Hi you guys,
                   I have been watching this link with interest as I am
currently designing a couple of projects with 18F1220's running at 40Mhz.
That link (80129F.pd) has been removed from Microchip's web site, even if
you do a search it cannot be found. If somebody has it please email it to me
at gtyler@drummond .org.za

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tal" <spamBeGonetal@spam@spamspam_OUTZAPTA.COM>
To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: You gotta be kidding me (PIC18FXX20 Rev A3)


> It is only a corruption of "a few bits". Not a big deal.
>
> ;-)
>
> Tal
>
> > {Original Message removed}

2003\08\04@160754 by Charles Craft

picon face
It's still there. Copy/past the whole link to your web browser.
Watch for truncated letters at the end.

--{Original Message removed}

2003\08\04@161831 by Jim Monteith

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face
try putting an "f" at the end of the line, it's a pdf file.  seems to work
fine.

http://www.microchip.com/download/lit/suppdoc/errata/80129F.pdf


{Original Message removed}

2003\08\04@163145 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
gtyler wrote:
>                     I have been watching this link with interest as I am
> currently designing a couple of projects with 18F1220's running at
> 40Mhz. That link (80129F.pd) has been removed from Microchip's web
> site,

No, it hasn't.  But, it does help to include the "f" in ".pdf":

http://www.microchip.com/download/lit/suppdoc/errata/80129F.pdf


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2003\08\05@003248 by Ken Pergola

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Hi G Tyler,

I just tried the link and it works -- did you make sure the URL ends in
'.pdf' ?

Good luck,

Ken Pergola

{Original Message removed}

2003\08\05@042323 by gtyler

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face
Ok! I missed that.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Olin Lathrop" <RemoveMEolin_piclistEraseMEspamspam_OUTEMBEDINC.COM>
To: <@spam@PICLISTRemoveMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: You gotta be kidding me (PIC18FXX20 Rev A3)


{Quote hidden}

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2003\08\05@055044 by -1?q?richard=20osborne?=

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How can you find out the revision number of a PIC? I
am using an 18F8720 that has the numbers: 03100BM on
the chip that stands for the year 2003, week 10 and
trace ability code 0BM.  Where do you find out what
the trace ability code means?

According the data sheet there is a Device ID
register.  I cannot get my HITECH compiler to
recognise this register, does anyone know what the
resister is called or what files need to be linked in,
to access this register?

Richard .O.

--- gtyler <@spam@gtylerspam_OUTspam.....DRUMMOND.ORG.ZA> wrote: > Ok! I
missed that.
>
> {Original Message removed}

2003\08\05@081023 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> According the data sheet there is a Device ID
> register.  I cannot get my HITECH compiler to
> recognise this register, does anyone know what the
> resister is called or what files need to be linked in,
> to access this register?

On most PICs this can only be read via the serial programming interface.
I think on 18F it might be accessible via table read, but I don't remember
for sure.


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