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'[PIC]: USB interface chip experience?'
2002\12\19@134916 by Olin Lathrop

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I need to get a basic bi-directional byte stream via USB to/from an
18F258, which will talk to a CAN bus and do a few other things.  I'm
looking for advice or experience from people that have been this way
before.

Long winded background:

So far I have found and read the data sheets for the Philips PDIUSBD12 and
the Cypress SL811S.  Both these devices connect directly to the USB and
provide an 8 bit parallel interface for control and data operations.

Both seem to be rather low level in that they just pass on the control
packets from the host and expect the micro to figure them out and respond.
I was hoping I could set some state indicating which endpoints I was going
to use how, the manufacturer's ID, etc, have the device automatically deal
with all the USB BS, and just give me an input stream and an output
stream.  There does not seem to be any device like that, so the firmware
will have to handle this.  Oh well.

It looks like either device should work for what I want.  The Cypress is a
little cheaper ($3.00 instead of $3.50), but the 50 cents isn't a big deal
either way.  The Philips data sheet is better and the device seems to
handle a few more little things for you, although both data sheets leave
some unanswered questions.

It took a long time to figure out who to call for Philips support, but he
was willing to talk to me once I found him.  Unfortunately Philips support
is thru local reps, which is always uncomfortable for people like me.  I'm
not the guy who will be buying these things in volume, and I don't even
know if they will be bought in his territory eventually.

I left a voice message for the local Cypress rep, but he just responded
with an email message pointing me to a specific web page (Pretty rude in
my opinion.  If I had wanted an email answer I would have sent an email
question).  It did answer some of the questions I asked (don't you hate it
when you ask several questions and they only answer some of them but
pretend they responded fully), but clearly this guy doesn't want to waste
time on me.

So, in the absence of additional input I'm going with the Philips part.
I'd like hear about experiences with either of these chips or any other
suggestions.


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2002\12\19@141617 by Bob Blick

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On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
> Both seem to be rather low level in that they just pass on the control
> packets from the host and expect the micro to figure them out and respond.
> I was hoping I could set some state indicating which endpoints I was going
> to use how, the manufacturer's ID, etc, have the device automatically deal
> with all the USB BS, and just give me an input stream and an output
> stream.  There does not seem to be any device like that, so the firmware
> will have to handle this.  Oh well.
>
Hi Olin,

Have you looked at the serial and parallel chips made by FTDI?
http://www.ftdichip.com/
They specifically deal with all the low level stuff, and they work quite
well for what they are. They are also very easy to get.

Cheers,

Bob

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2002\12\19@143113 by Olin Lathrop

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> Have you looked at the serial and parallel chips made by FTDI?
> http://www.ftdichip.com/
> They specifically deal with all the low level stuff, and they work quite
> well for what they are. They are also very easy to get.

I thought they only made RS-232 chips, but I see that their parallel FIFO
chip might be a good fit.  I'm going to go study that data sheet.

Thanks for your help.


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2002\12\19@143322 by ACTION

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Bob, what price for these chips ?

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2002\12\19@143533 by Andrew Warren

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Olin Lathrop <spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> I need to get a basic bi-directional byte stream via USB to/from
> an 18F258, which will talk to a CAN bus and do a few other things.
> ....
> So far I have found and read the data sheets for the Philips
> PDIUSBD12 and the Cypress SL811S.
> ....
> I'd like hear about experiences with either of these chips or any
> other suggestions.

Olin:

If it were me, I'd be looking at the Cypress EZ-USB (AN21xx) or EZ-
USB FX (CY7C646xx) parts; they're easier to work with, in my opinion,
than either the PDIUSBD12 or SL811S.

For info (datasheets, Technical Reference Manual, etc.), point your
web browser to:

   http://www.cypress.com/products/

and click on the "USB Full-Speed Peripherals" link.

-Andy

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=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

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2002\12\19@145333 by Matt Pobursky

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Olin,
My experience with the FTDI FT245 has been very good. EASY to get up
and running and quite fast -- in fact, the PIC will definitely be your
bandwidth limitation. There are also a couple vendors (DLP Design and
Dontronics) that sell prototype boards (around $30 or so) with all
required interface circuitry that bring out the necessary signals to a
0.1" lead pattern. I got started this way and was up and running very
quickly.

Another serious consideration is that with the FTDI chips, they provide
a virtual COM driver for free. They also provide an API driver library
if you want to write low level stuff on the Host side.

Good stuff and highly recommended.

Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems
On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 14:30:22 -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> > Have you looked at the serial and parallel chips made by FTDI?
> > http://www.ftdichip.com/ They specifically deal with all the low
> > level stuff, and they work quite well for what they are. They are
> > also very easy to get.


> I thought they only made RS-232 chips, but I see that their parallel
> FIFO chip might be a good fit.  I'm going to go study that data
> sheet.

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2002\12\19@151443 by Bob Blick

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On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, ACTION wrote:

> Bob, what price for these chips ?

About $6 in singles, under $2 in 10k. Your mileage may vary, and I have
never actually tested the 10k pricing. Definitely affordable though.

Cheers,

Bob

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2002\12\19@155358 by Olin Lathrop

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> If it were me, I'd be looking at the Cypress EZ-USB (AN21xx) or EZ-
> USB FX (CY7C646xx) parts; they're easier to work with, in my opinion,
> than either the PDIUSBD12 or SL811S.
>
> For info (datasheets, Technical Reference Manual, etc.), point your
> web browser to:
>
>     http://www.cypress.com/products/
>
> and click on the "USB Full-Speed Peripherals" link.

That gets me the page where I found the SL811S in the first place.
Perhaps I misunderstand, but aren't those all programmable parts except
for the SL811S and the AN2720SC, and the latter is for direct connection
between two USB networks?  I will already have a PIC 18F258 driving a CAN
bus and doing some other tasks, and just want a stream of input and output
bytes to/from the host.  I don't see how yet another programmable part
with yet another set of development tools makes it easier just to get two
bulk endpoints.  Am I missing something here?


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2002\12\19@161206 by Olin Lathrop

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>>
My experience with the FTDI FT245 has been very good. EASY to get up
and running and quite fast -- in fact, the PIC will definitely be your
bandwidth limitation. There are also a couple vendors (DLP Design and
Dontronics) that sell prototype boards (around $30 or so) with all
required interface circuitry that bring out the necessary signals to a
0.1" lead pattern. I got started this way and was up and running very
quickly.

Another serious consideration is that with the FTDI chips, they provide
a virtual COM driver for free. They also provide an API driver library
if you want to write low level stuff on the Host side.

Good stuff and highly recommended.
<<

Thanks, this is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.  I have
meanwhile read the data sheet for the FT245BM.  I think it's a better fit
than the PDIUSBD12 or the SL811S, but I haven't yet looked around for
price and local support seems to be from some guy in a garage in New York.
We'll see how long it takes for him to return my call.

One issue with this chip is that it requires all the configuration
parameters in an external EEPROM.  Not too bad, but it would be a lower
chip count if I could supply the configuration parameters from the
microcontroller (18F258) before enabling USB.  The spec sheet completely
omits the EEPROM data layout, but I haven't dug around for it on the FTDI
site yet.


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2002\12\19@170354 by Andrew Warren

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Olin Lathrop <PICLISTspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> > If it were me, I'd be looking at the Cypress EZ-USB (AN21xx) or EZ-
> > USB FX (CY7C646xx) parts
>
> That gets me the page where I found the SL811S in the first place.
> Perhaps I misunderstand, but aren't those all programmable parts
> except for the SL811S and the AN2720SC, and the latter is for
> direct connection between two USB networks?

   Your understanding is correct.

> I will already have a PIC 18F258 driving a CAN bus and doing some
> other tasks, and just want a stream of input and output bytes
> to/from the host.  I don't see how yet another programmable part
> with yet another set of development tools makes it easier just to
> get two bulk endpoints. Am I missing something here?

   Nope.  If your needs are really that simple, the non-programmable
   parts (from Philips, FTDI, or Cypress) may work perfectly for
   you.

   -Andy

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2002\12\19@172507 by Matt Pobursky

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On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:11:19 -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> Thanks, this is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.  I
> have meanwhile read the data sheet for the FT245BM.  I think it's a
> better fit than the PDIUSBD12 or the SL811S, but I haven't yet looked
> around for price and local support seems to be from some guy in a
> garage in New York.
> We'll see how long it takes for him to return my call.

Saelig has been around for quite a while -- at least based on their ads
I've seen in Circuit Cellar Ink and other trade mags. They got back to
me quickly, same day or next day as I recall.

> One issue with this chip is that it requires all the configuration
> parameters in an external EEPROM.  Not too bad, but it would be a
> lower chip count if I could supply the configuration parameters from
> the microcontroller (18F258) before enabling USB.  The spec sheet
> completely omits the EEPROM data layout, but I haven't dug around for
> it on the FTDI site yet.

FTDI has a software utility for loading all the configuration
information via USB. The spec for the EEPROM layout is also there too,
I think in an application note -- I know I've run across it in the
past. Other than having an additional EEPROM chip, the FTDI parts are
very convenient for getting USB functionality with a minimum of effort.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

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2002\12\19@172644 by Dave Tweed

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Olin Lathrop <EraseMEolin_piclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTEMBEDINC.COM> wrote:
> One issue with this chip is that it requires all the configuration
> parameters in an external EEPROM.  Not too bad, but it would be a lower
> chip count if I could supply the configuration parameters from the
> microcontroller (18F258) before enabling USB.  The spec sheet completely
> omits the EEPROM data layout, but I haven't dug around for it on the FTDI
> site yet.

I see that others have already pointed you in the same direction I was
going to send you.

There's an article about the FT8U245AM coming in the February 2003 Circuit
Cellar (issue #151). It's amazing how the topics on this list manage to
anticipate their editorial schedule.

The data sheet (ft245r09.pdf) gives the EEPROM layout in Appendix B (very
last page).

Anyway, the chip works just fine *without* an external EEPROM, if you don't
mind using the default Vendor/Product IDs and no serial number. Also, you
don't need to preprogram the EEPROM; you can just connect a blank EEPROM to
the device and program it via the USB connection using a utility that runs
on the host.

If you can't wait, email me off-list and I'll send you a PDF of the article
proof you can take a look at. I can also send you the version of the data
sheet I have.

-- Dave Tweed

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2002\12\19@184230 by Olin Lathrop

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> The data sheet (ft245r09.pdf) gives the EEPROM layout in Appendix B
(very
> last page).

Hmm.  I downloaded the latest data sheet for the FT245BM today and there
was no such appendix.  I've already sent email to FTDI requesting the
info, so I'll give them a day to caugh it up.

> Anyway, the chip works just fine *without* an external EEPROM, if you
don't
> mind using the default Vendor/Product IDs and no serial number.

I do mind.

> Also, you
> don't need to preprogram the EEPROM; you can just connect a blank EEPROM
to
> the device and program it via the USB connection using a utility that
runs
> on the host.

Yeah, I'm not real comfortable with the fact that the EEPROM can be
changed from the host.  I'd rather set it once and enable some sort of
write protection, but the EEPROMs they spec don't have that.  Oh well.

I'll probably wake up holding the FTDI chip in reset and have the PIC
checksum the EEPROM.  If it isn't right, it will load it before releasing
the FTDI chip.

Overall, the FT245BM is a nice chip, although a bit pricy in quantities
below 1000.

> If you can't wait, email me off-list and I'll send you a PDF of the
article
> proof you can take a look at. I can also send you the version of the
data
> sheet I have.

Thanks, I'll take you up on that if I don't hear from FTDI in a day or so.


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2002\12\19@184442 by Mitch Miller

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On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Matt Pobursky wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Also check out http://www.dlpdesign.com.  They have prebuilt assemblies
with the FTDI chip, AND eeprom already onboard.

I got one of each recently, but haven't really used them yet.  Only thing
I've done so far is connect them (don't forget to provide power ... either
external or connect to usb power or the won't get enumerated ... don't ask
how I know)  and load the driver.  One thing that did happen was I
hot-disconnected one and it caused my XP O/S to blue-screen (for you
non-MS users out there, that's bad, bad, bad).

-- Mitch

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2002\12\19@184444 by Mitch Miller

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On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Dave Tweed wrote:

> Olin Lathrop <olin_piclistspamspam_OUTEMBEDINC.COM> wrote:
> > One issue with this chip is that it requires all the configuration
> > parameters in an external EEPROM.  Not too bad, but it would be a lower
> > chip count if I could supply the configuration parameters from the
> > microcontroller (18F258) before enabling USB.  The spec sheet completely
> > omits the EEPROM data layout, but I haven't dug around for it on the FTDI
> > site yet.
>
> I see that others have already pointed you in the same direction I was
> going to send you.
>
> There's an article about the FT8U245AM coming in the February 2003 Circuit
> Cellar (issue #151). It's amazing how the topics on this list manage to
> anticipate their editorial schedule.
>

That also reminds me ... there was an aritcle in a recent Nuts & Volts
magazine; don't have it in front of me anymore, but it must have been
either the November of December issue.

-- Mitch

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2002\12\19@190911 by Ashley Roll

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Hi Olin,

Could you emulate the EEPROM with the PIC? Then you have complete control
over the contents and can avoid it being written over.

Assuming you have the pins free and the time to write the code for a slave
microwire system.. Haven't tried, could be nasty.

Cheers,
Ash.

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> {Original Message removed}

2002\12\19@193623 by Tony Nixon

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Mitch Miller wrote:

> I got one of each recently, but haven't really used them yet.  Only thing
> I've done so far is connect them (don't forget to provide power ... either
> external or connect to usb power or the won't get enumerated ... don't ask
> how I know)  and load the driver.  One thing that did happen was I
> hot-disconnected one and it caused my XP O/S to blue-screen (for you
> non-MS users out there, that's bad, bad, bad).

On Win 9x 2000, if you have your application running and pull the USB
device, the system locks up also.

I have found that...

Startup: Insert USB device -> start application

Closedown: Close application -> disconnect USB device


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2002\12\19@195114 by Andy Kunz

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>Could you emulate the EEPROM with the PIC? Then you have complete control
>over the contents and can avoid it being written over.

Not fast enough.

Andy

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2002\12\19@195526 by Tony Nixon

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Olin Lathrop wrote:

>
> > If you can't wait, email me off-list and I'll send you a PDF of the
> article
> > proof you can take a look at. I can also send you the version of the
> data
> > sheet I have.
>
> Thanks, I'll take you up on that if I don't hear from FTDI in a day or so.


Some eeprom data here...

http://www.ftdichip.com/Documents/ft232r08.pdf

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2002\12\20@005013 by Brendan Moran

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I haven't compared them with other available devices, but, you may want to
look at the national USBN9603/9604.  They have both parallel and SPI
interface capability, and they have a few nice things like a clock-out line
with internal programmable divider, which can be a plus.

However, as to overhead, the 9603/4 don't even do DATA0/DATA1 toggling for
you, though they do put them nicely in registers rather than making you
sort out the packet ID.

I don't know which would be better for your application but I thought that
you might want to know that there were also these out there.  From what you
describe, the 9603/4 that I'm using sounds reasonably similar to what you
have already found.


At 01:48 PM 19/12/2002 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\12\20@044832 by Alan B. Pearce

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>So, in the absence of additional input I'm going with
>the Philips part. I'd like hear about experiences with
>either of these chips or any other suggestions.

I would suggest you look seriously at the FTDI part, which is available in
two versions, one is USB to serial UART and the other is USB to parallel.
Both will take a 93C46 type eeprom for the enumeration info, and can load
this eeprom from the USB bus using a utility available on the FTDI website.

40 pin surface mount package, requires 6MHz crystal or resonator, possibly
driven from external clock if this already available IIRC, it is a while
since I looked at the data sheet.

Check out http://www.ftdichip.com/ and make sure you pick up the B versions
of the chips.

The "get out" clause. I don't have experience with any USB chips, but have
looked at these with interest. They appear to have some nice features, and
there are some app notes on the web page as well.

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2002\12\20@094746 by Olin Lathrop

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Followup on FTDI USB chip EEPROM layout:

I just received a reply from FTDI that the EEPROM layout is only release
under NDA, and they sent me an NDA form to fill out and fax back.  This
seems rediculous, but I'll have to play along.


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2002\12\20@094750 by Olin Lathrop

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> Could you emulate the EEPROM with the PIC? Then you have complete
control
> over the contents and can avoid it being written over.
>
> Assuming you have the pins free and the time to write the code for a
slave
> microwire system.. Haven't tried, could be nasty.

I thought of that, but FTDI chip apparently uses a fairly high bit rate
which would make it difficult to emulate the EEPROM chip.  If they had
used IIC I could use the IIC slave hardware in the PIC, but they used
3-wire serial protocol of chips like the 93LC46B.  I haven't looked up
what that is yet, but I'm assuming the timing would be too tight to
implement a slave in the PIC and still to other things at the same time.


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2002\12\20@094753 by Olin Lathrop

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> On Win 9x 2000, if you have your application running and pull the USB
> device, the system locks up also.
>
> I have found that...
>
> Startup: Insert USB device -> start application
>
> Closedown: Close application -> disconnect USB device

Is that for all USB devices or just the FTDI?  If that latter, that would
be a very good reason not to use FTDI, or at least their drivers.


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2002\12\20@095607 by Alan B. Pearce

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>I just received a reply from FTDI that the EEPROM layout is only release
>under NDA, and they sent me an NDA form to fill out and fax back.  This
>seems rediculous, but I'll have to play along.

Well I wonder how different it is from the A version of the chip. That data
is certainly in an appendiz of the data sheet for the A version. Can supply
if interested.

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2002\12\20@100601 by Peter L. Peres

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On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Olin Lathrop wrote:

*>Followup on FTDI USB chip EEPROM layout:
*>
*>I just received a reply from FTDI that the EEPROM layout is only release
*>under NDA, and they sent me an NDA form to fill out and fax back.  This
*>seems rediculous, but I'll have to play along.

Why would it be ridiculous ? It's their IP and they want to protect it. If
you want one for free, write it yourself. This was a strange message,
coming from you, imho.

Peter

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2002\12\20@103854 by Leonardo Perretti

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Olin Lathrop wrote:

>I need to get a basic bi-directional byte stream via USB to/from an
>18F258, which will talk to a CAN bus and do a few other things.  I'm
>looking for advice or experience from people that have been this way
>before.

Olin,
I have just built and tested a prototype system based on 18C442 and
FTDI FT245, (as implemented in USBMOD2 from gigatechnology
(http://www.gigatechnology.com)). I have provided the 442 with a simple
general purpose "operating system", that receives command codes from
the USB channel and jumps to predefined routines.
If you think it could be of interest, feel free to ask.

Greetings from Italy

Leonardo Perretti

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2002\12\20@104428 by Olin Lathrop

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> Why would it be ridiculous ? It's their IP and they want to protect it.
If
> you want one for free, write it yourself. This was a strange message,
> coming from you, imho.

They freely publish all the other external details of the chip.  It just
seems strange that this one thing is treated differently.  I rather doubt
the information would be of any value to a competitor, nor that the
competitor couldn't easily obtain it if they really wanted to anyway.
This NDS BS only raises the hassle factor for legitimate users like me.

The information stored in the EEPROM is all standard USB endpoint
descriptor stuff and the like.  The only thing they are holding back is
the exact details of what bits are stored at what addresses in the EEPROM.


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(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

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2002\12\20@104432 by Olin Lathrop

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> I haven't compared them with other available devices, but, you may want
to
> look at the national USBN9603/9604.  They have both parallel and SPI
> interface capability, and they have a few nice things like a clock-out
line
> with internal programmable divider, which can be a plus.
>
> However, as to overhead, the 9603/4 don't even do DATA0/DATA1 toggling
for
> you, though they do put them nicely in registers rather than making you
> sort out the packet ID.
>
> I don't know which would be better for your application but I thought
that
> you might want to know that there were also these out there.  From what
you
> describe, the 9603/4 that I'm using sounds reasonably similar to what
you
> have already found.

Thanks, I had noticed these chips.  They seem to be very capable and
flexible but also very low level in that they require more real time
responses from the microcontroller to get the same job done.


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2002\12\20@104922 by Olin Lathrop

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> I have just built and tested a prototype system based on 18C442 and
> FTDI FT245, (as implemented in USBMOD2 from gigatechnology
> (http://www.gigatechnology.com)). I have provided the 442 with a simple
> general purpose "operating system", that receives command codes from
> the USB channel and jumps to predefined routines.
> If you think it could be of interest, feel free to ask.

Thanks, but it sounds like my application is different.  I will be mostly
handling data streaming in and out based on what the device is doing.


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2002\12\20@112440 by Dave Tweed

face
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Olin Lathrop <RemoveMEolin_piclistTakeThisOuTspamEMBEDINC.COM> wrote:
> "Peter L. Peres" <spamBeGoneplpspamBeGonespamACTCOM.CO.IL> wrote:
> > Why would it be ridiculous ? It's their IP and they want to protect it.
> > If you want one for free, write it yourself. This was a strange message,
> > coming from you, imho.

[ word-wrap and attribution fixed ]

> They freely publish all the other external details of the chip.  It just
> seems strange that this one thing is treated differently.  I rather doubt
> the information would be of any value to a competitor, nor that the
> competitor couldn't easily obtain it if they really wanted to anyway.
> This NDS BS only raises the hassle factor for legitimate users like me.
>
> The information stored in the EEPROM is all standard USB endpoint
> descriptor stuff and the like.  The only thing they are holding back is
> the exact details of what bits are stored at what addresses in the EEPROM.

I suspect that in the "B" version of the chip, they're using a few EEPROM
locations to control the configuration of certain features of the chip
itself, and this is what they're trying to keep secret.

Frankly, I find it hard to imagine that the value of keeping such things
secret outweighs the real cost of doing the NDA paperwork and the potential
cost of alienating customers. Perhaps it's just an excuse for collecting
information about the customers.

-- Dave Tweed

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2002\12\20@122332 by Dal Wheeler

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You can run into similar practices with things like cellular modem modules.
Producers insist on signatures and purchasing dev. kits to get *any*
technical information from them.  Makes it very hard to do much dilligent
component selection.  I believe they must think that the warehouse club
model where a customer must put in a level of work and expense to gain
access makes a more loyal consumer.  I try to avoid that when I can...
Motorola seemed to do similar things a few years ago...  Frustrating.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Tweed" <TakeThisOuTpicEraseMEspamspam_OUTDTWEED.COM>

> Frankly, I find it hard to imagine that the value of keeping such things
> secret outweighs the real cost of doing the NDA paperwork and the
potential
> cost of alienating customers. Perhaps it's just an excuse for collecting
> information about the customers.

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2002\12\20@124908 by Florian Voelzke

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Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Yeah, I'm not real comfortable with the fact that the EEPROM can be
> changed from the host.  I'd rather set it once and enable some sort of
> write protection, but the EEPROMs they spec don't have that.  Oh well.
>
> I'll probably wake up holding the FTDI chip in reset and have the PIC
> checksum the EEPROM.  If it isn't right, it will load it before releasing
> the FTDI chip.
>

Have you checked the eeprom fm93CS46 from fairchild semiconductors? This
chip has indeed write protection (software and hardware controlled) and
some more "security" functions. It seems capable of the demanded 1MHz
operation, too.

Florian

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2002\12\20@133814 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Olin Lathrop wrote:

*>The information stored in the EEPROM is all standard USB endpoint
*>descriptor stuff and the like.  The only thing they are holding back is
*>the exact details of what bits are stored at what addresses in the EEPROM.

Maybe they want to make sure that they have legal fuel in case someone
literally rips the structure and uses it in their product. It would
certainly cut down development time. Not that it counts, since most
development a serious copier would do nowadays would be in a third world
country with low wages, imho.

Peter

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2002\12\20@143431 by Wagner Lipnharski

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Hi Leonardo,
Your experience is valuable, of course.
Can you advance some information?:

 Your PC software was written in what?  C, VB, ???
 It was easy to interface the FTDI DLL modules?
 Tell us about the difficult parts of the implementation?
 What Windows version are you using?

Thank you,
Wagner.



{Original Message removed}

2002\12\21@010828 by Peter Crowcroft

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>From:    Bob Blick <RemoveMEbblickspamTakeThisOuTSONIC.NET>
>Subject: Re: [PIC]: USB interface chip experience?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, ACTION wrote:

>> Bob, what price for these chips ?

>About $6 in singles, under $2 in 10k. Your mileage may vary, and I have
>never actually tested the 10k pricing. Definitely affordable though.

I sell the FT232BM for $US4 each plus postage on any number up to say 300
pieces, for $US5.


regards,

Peter Crowcroft

NOTE: CLOSING CHRISTMAS DECEMBER 20, 2002 thru JANUARY 6, 2003.
             DIY Electronics (HK) Ltd
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2002\12\21@042357 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> I sell the FT232BM for $US4 each plus postage on any number
> up to say 300 pieces, for $US5.

4 or 5? Or is $5 the postage?

Wouter van Ooijen

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2002\12\21@043436 by Leonardo Perretti

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Hi Wagner,

as I said, I used the USBMOD2 from gigatechnology as an USB module.
It comes as a standard 32-pin DIL package, and contains the FT8U245
and all the circuitry that is needed to make it run, including the
crystal and the USB connector, except the EEPROM; see
http://www.gigatechnology.com for more details (I have to add, I am not
involved with them other then as a customer). I connected the  data
pins of the FT245 to the PORTC of the 18C442, and the four control
pins to the pins 4-7 of the PORTB. As a clock, I used AEL1210 40MHz
crystal oscillator module. The remaining ports' pins are available
for your own use.

I use it with a Macintosh, and access the USBMOD2/FT245 from inside a
program written in C. The FTDI driver requires no special
installation other then dropping it in the extensions folder. The
driver is automatically loaded when you insert the USB plug, and is
unloaded when you unplug it. The computer treats it as a serial
device (a COM port at higher level); I found no difficulties with
that; my application used a true serial port before, and I had almost
no changes to make. You have to close the "serial" driver correctly
before closing the application or unplug the connector; otherwise,
the USB port remains orphan, and the only way to free it is
restarting the computer. I made no try with a PC; it seems that FTDI
makes available smarter tools for PC anyway.

The PIC code is written with MPLAB, and is, as I said, a small
"operating system" that responds to command codes; it could be easily
modified to simply send and receive data. If you are interested, I
can share the code.

Regards
Leonardo Perretti

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2002\12\21@093143 by Gordon Niessen

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I went to the kitsrus website, but it is only in the news.  Not listed as a
kit, so no details.  When do you think you will start selling it?

At 11:44 PM 12/20/2002, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\12\21@110628 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 10:21 AM 12/21/02 +0100, you wrote:
> > I sell the FT232BM for $US4 each plus postage on any number
> > up to say 300 pieces, for $US5.
>
>4 or 5? Or is $5 the postage?

I interpret that as $4/unit + $5 total postage & handling.

IOW, 6 units = USD29.-

>Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
spamBeGonespeffSTOPspamspamEraseMEinterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

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2002\12\21@143128 by kben

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I think Spehro is right about the pricing.

The main page is located here
http://www.kitsrus.com
from the main page the drop down box with
"Go to Web Page ..." and select
"Components and Modules for Sale"
It will take you here >>>
http://www.kitsrus.com/bits.html
it has FT232BM $4.00 listed about half way down.

~Kevin


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2002\12\21@193449 by Wagner Lipnharski

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Leonardo Perretti wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Thank you for your explanation.
I intend to use the serial or parallel 245 (not decided yet) with an
external device that today uses parallel port to communicate with a PC
windows program.  The external device is using two AVR uCs, not PICs.

Wagner.

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