Post by thread:[PIC]: Should I use a STAMP?

>My question is: If I've started off the "hard way" using ASM > and custom peripherals/circuits/etc., is it really worth looking into the Basic Stamp at all? No! Over priced. Some functionality impossible to provide. Slower than compiled code. Spend your money on a BASIC compiler - eg MELABS or whoever and make or acquire some appropriate PCBs to mount your PICs on. A little more work to get going but far cheaper and more powerful and flexible in due course. I'm just about to implement a small project to replace a dead processor in a product where the manufacturer is being slow about providing a 62T10 ST processor that was blown up by ESD due to some leads from a plugin switch box coming in directly to processor leads with no protection or other components of any sort !!!! (used in a disability unit in a local special school - absolutely at the whim of the maker who is 12,000 miles away in the UK). Has 4 input switches and drives 4 relays via transistor drivers. Simple functionality with some switch response and some timing functions. Using a BASIC compiler I expect to have the code finished in a few hours with enhancements to the original device. The same would apply to C or other competent high level languages if you are comfortable with them (or willing to become so).. A BASIC Stamp would do the same task but cost form several to many times as much. STAMPS are for people who - don't know about microprocessor and/or - don't need full; functionality - and/or don't care and/or - have too much money :-) Russell McMahon -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Lately, I've seen an "uprise" of Basic Stamp users. This really has me intrigued. My question is: If I've started off the "hard way" using ASM and custom peripherals/circuits/etc., is it really worth looking into the Basic Stamp at all? Sure, it's worth looking at. IMO, the stamp is more interesting from the perspective of the language being well adapted to a certain subset of embedded applications than for having brilliant hardware, but I think the stamp development environment is likely to be amazingly fast, even compare to flash "bare" microcontrollers (and when the stamp came out, well before flash controllers were available, it was a real innovation!) I believe that there's a "fractional stamp" implementation in an 16F84 out there as freeware someplace; uses the internal eeprom instead of external code, with the accompanying limitations on program size. BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> but I think the > stamp development environment is likely to be amazingly fast, even compare > to flash "bare" microcontrollers (and when the stamp came out, well before > flash controllers were available, it was a real innovation!) If you have a suitable PIC hardware cct with ISP and an ISP cable to eg PICSTART Plus then you can compile program, groan and retry in well under a minute. STAMP has a debug mode of sorts back to its terminal which the compilers haven't but I have never found debugging at the level of programs you are liable to do with a STAMP equivalent program. Flashing LEDs program partitioning (and of course an oscilloscope) are good enough. You can also have a serial port on any pin so can add your own debug routines to any old PC as well. > I believe that there's a "fractional stamp" implementation in an 16F84 > out there as freeware someplace; uses the internal eeprom instead of > external code, with the accompanying limitations on program size. It's quite crippled and incomplete and not really worth pursuing unless you are specifically an enthusiast. Russell McMahon -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

I don't think there's much of a risk that I'll drive a multitude over to the stamp list...not many here will admit having anything to do with stamps.... While there are a number of amateurs & enthusiasts that are regulars on the stamp list, I still maintain a subscription for one reason, well actually two. First is that a number of times I have been hired by lurkers to do actual projects. I will say that they have been in the higher end of the rate scale. Since I realized this was happening, I make sure I keep a few stamps in a drawer for a few reasons: They're great for fast customer demos. The Stamps debug window has to be the cheapest way to watch for real events. Many times can be used to prove the viability of an idea, such as investigating use of uncommon input or output devices. They're great for testing VB apps using MSComm in a snap too. Like right now - no hardware, only a serial cable and a debug screen. Like the PIClist, the stamp list is a widely diverse community. There have been regulars that range from absolute beginners to engineering students to PhD's in various fields. 'Outside of the box' thinking is more common there. Dr. Allen is a math genius who has found ways to do incredibly complex math on stamps. Another fellow in Germany uses stamps to build entertaining advertising displays and has been hired by many large inational & International firms, probably because he gets results so quickly...etc..etc... but... Stamps have serious limitations when compared to PICs and ROSC micros as they are discussed here. As interpreters, they run much slower, having to interpret instructions every time around the loop. while there are simple 1 line instructions for what we call hardware peripherals and even serial I/O, the processor can do nothing else while these are being executed. They are deterministic - one loop of serially executing program - no way to 'squeeze' more out of processor resources. No real interrupts - high end models can be interrupted after the completion of each interpreted basic instruction with a slow 'pseudo interrupt' instruction. They are priced ridiculously high. Despite all the limitations, one could line up a string of stamps on a serial line and have a working network in less than an hour. Lasy year I purchased a copy of PICBASIC Pro, and this has allowed me to do simple PIC projects in much less time, since I prefer Asm & am allergic to C. Still, not too many suitably simple projects come my way... Nowadays, I use all 3 methods, granted stamps never wind up included in a finished product or design - unless the customer asks for it. Some actually have. Those are the ones that are paying by the hour & know the hours that can go into low level RISC programming. One fellow even had us do an RF project for investor demos with stamps. My point is that Stamps have their place. Having working knowledge of their strengths and weaknesses is like having another tool in the box. Sometimes you may have to cut holes in wood, other times steel, or even glass. So, there's no reason to avoid them, but the cost and performance limitations keep them in a different call that doesn't really overlap with PICs. > Lately, I've seen an "uprise" of Basic Stamp users. This > really has me intrigued. My question is: If I've started off > the "hard way" using ASM and custom > peripherals/circuits/etc., is it really worth looking into > the Basic Stamp at all? > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

In a message dated 02/28/2003 09:20:50 Eastern Standard Time, spam_OUTchrisTakeThisOuTMAIL2ASI.COM writes: {Quote hidden}> Nowadays, I use all 3 methods, granted stamps never wind up included in a > finished product or design - unless the customer asks for it. Some actually > have. Those are the ones that are paying by the hour & know the hours that > can go into low level RISC programming. One fellow even had us do an RF > project for investor demos with stamps. > > My point is that Stamps have their place. Having working knowledge of their > strengths and weaknesses is like having another tool in the box. Sometimes > you may have to cut holes in wood, other times steel, or even glass. > > So, there's no reason to avoid them, but the cost and performance > limitations keep them in a different call that doesn't really overlap with > PICs. > Well put, Chris I also use both Stamp and PIC. If I'm developing something new, the Stamp is much, much quicker to set up, program and display. Costwise, the PIC is preferable for production, but you just can't beat the Stamp when you want to do something in a hurry. Sid Weaver W4EKQ Port Richey, FL -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

I am currently working with a BasicX24 (http://www.Basicx.com). At one time, the BX24 (AVR 8535) was much better than the Stamp, but that may have changed, I am not current on that. I bought my BX24 when they were 35.00. I think they are 50.00 now. I love it. I can make something happen in minutes. My current project came together so fast I couldn't believe it. I will be migrating to a AVR Mega8 using Bascom. I just bought the SDK500 board to do this 79.00. When I have the time, I will port the code to GCC for further refinements, but in the meantime, my project is in service and working. A lot of good BX24 code from PHAnderson too, as well as easy purchase and great shipping rates using PayPal. If someone would just write a Palm terminal emulator w/adjustable fonts (sorry, had to get that in). John {Original Message removed}