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'[PIC]: Resonators, crystals, and ICSP...'
2002\06\24@141605 by Pic Dude

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Looking into "converting" my Tait programmer for ICSP, and read about
the setting MCLR before 4 instruction cycles issue.  Not a problem with
a crystal, but might be with the RC oscillator.  Perhaps I really need
to migrate from the RC oscillator to crystals once and for all, even in
my timing-insensitive apps.  But then there's the whole stay-below-1.705
mhz deal f/FCC exemption, and the expensive 1MHz crystal deal.  Another
issue is that the crystal I find are usually quite large (relative to
the spot I want to squeeze it in).

So I was looking at resonators.  I know that 3-pin resonators can be
used with PIC's, but are not as accurate as crystals (not a problem for
the timing-insensitive apps), but my calcs tell me that I don't want to
use it for anything with a time-clock.

But what about 2-pin resonators?  Can I use these with a PIC?  If so,
how would I wire it up -- same as a crystal?  And would cap selection
be the same as for a crystal?

Cheers,
-Neil.

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2002\06\26@021446 by Pic Dude

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Second try.  Surely someone must have an idea about
using 2-pin resonators with PIC's  ...?

Cheers,
-Neil.




{Original Message removed}

2002\06\26@022719 by Anthony Bussan

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Are you speaking of the 2 pin devices that do not have the on board caps?

Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Pic Dude [.....picdudeKILLspamspam@spam@AVN-TECH.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 1:11 AM
To: PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Resonators, crystals, and ICSP...


Second try.  Surely someone must have an idea about
using 2-pin resonators with PIC's  ...?

Cheers,
-Neil.




-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Pic Dude
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 1:13 PM
To: EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [PIC]: Resonators, crystals, and ICSP...


Looking into "converting" my Tait programmer for ICSP, and read about
the setting MCLR before 4 instruction cycles issue.  Not a problem with
a crystal, but might be with the RC oscillator.  Perhaps I really need
to migrate from the RC oscillator to crystals once and for all, even in
my timing-insensitive apps.  But then there's the whole stay-below-1.705
mhz deal f/FCC exemption, and the expensive 1MHz crystal deal.  Another
issue is that the crystal I find are usually quite large (relative to
the spot I want to squeeze it in).

So I was looking at resonators.  I know that 3-pin resonators can be
used with PIC's, but are not as accurate as crystals (not a problem for
the timing-insensitive apps), but my calcs tell me that I don't want to
use it for anything with a time-clock.

But what about 2-pin resonators?  Can I use these with a PIC?  If so,
how would I wire it up -- same as a crystal?  And would cap selection
be the same as for a crystal?

Cheers,
-Neil.

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2002\06\26@023754 by Anthony Bussan

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Why not just read a datasheet?
http://www.ecsxtal.com/cerares.htm

Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Pic Dude [@spam@picdudeKILLspamspamAVN-TECH.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 1:11 AM
To: KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Resonators, crystals, and ICSP...


Second try.  Surely someone must have an idea about
using 2-pin resonators with PIC's  ...?

Cheers,
-Neil.




-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Pic Dude
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 1:13 PM
To: spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [PIC]: Resonators, crystals, and ICSP...


Looking into "converting" my Tait programmer for ICSP, and read about
the setting MCLR before 4 instruction cycles issue.  Not a problem with
a crystal, but might be with the RC oscillator.  Perhaps I really need
to migrate from the RC oscillator to crystals once and for all, even in
my timing-insensitive apps.  But then there's the whole stay-below-1.705
mhz deal f/FCC exemption, and the expensive 1MHz crystal deal.  Another
issue is that the crystal I find are usually quite large (relative to
the spot I want to squeeze it in).

So I was looking at resonators.  I know that 3-pin resonators can be
used with PIC's, but are not as accurate as crystals (not a problem for
the timing-insensitive apps), but my calcs tell me that I don't want to
use it for anything with a time-clock.

But what about 2-pin resonators?  Can I use these with a PIC?  If so,
how would I wire it up -- same as a crystal?  And would cap selection
be the same as for a crystal?

Cheers,
-Neil.

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individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this
e-mail in error please notify the sender by return e-mail, delete this
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2002\06\26@025646 by Pic Dude

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Yep -- them be the ones.  Or like this example...
http://www.ecsxtal.com/pdf/ztb.pdf

I've found references to use of 3-pin resonators with
PIC's, but none w.r.t. 2-pin resonators, and wondering
if there is a problem with doing this?

Cheers,
-Neil.



{Original Message removed}

2002\06\26@030536 by Pic Dude

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I actually did go thru a couple, but they don't have any
specific reference to using these with PIC's.  See other
email from a few minutes ago -- I've found many references
to using PICs with 3-pin resonators, but none with using
2-pin resonators, and wondering if there is a problem
with doing this.

Thanks,
-Neil.




{Original Message removed}

2002\06\26@054000 by Dwayne Reid

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At 01:11 AM 6/26/02 -0500, Pic Dude wrote:
>Second try.  Surely someone must have an idea about
>using 2-pin resonators with PIC's  ...?

I don't bother any more - I now use 3 terminal resonators with the built-in
capacitors.  All brands that I have tried work OK at 4 MHz but some people
have had problems with some brands at frequencies higher than 10
MHz.  Harrold H can fill you in on that.

But yes - 2 terminal resonators will work just fine if you add the
appropriate capacitors to them.  Think of them as a low quality crystal -
much looser tolerance, much lower Q, more loss.  But they start up MUCH
quicker than crystals.

dwayne

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2002\06\26@063626 by Russell McMahon

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> I don't bother any more - I now use 3 terminal resonators with the
built-in
> capacitors.  All brands that I have tried work OK at 4 MHz but some people
> have had problems with some brands at frequencies higher than 10
> MHz.  Harrold H can fill you in on that.


All brands seem to work well as long as they are Murata :-) (and used
according to spec sheet)


           RM

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2002\06\26@121834 by Pic Dude

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> ... But they start up MUCH quicker than crystals. ...

Hmmm.... if it behaves like a crystal (sounds perfectly
reasonable), then I assume that the PIC will still wait
1024 cycles before executing any instructions, so I
should not have a problem with ICSP...?

Cheers,
-Neil.



{Original Message removed}

2002\06\26@125900 by Dwayne Reid

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At 11:15 AM 6/26/02 -0500, Pic Dude wrote:
> > ... But they start up MUCH quicker than crystals. ...
>
>Hmmm.... if it behaves like a crystal (sounds perfectly
>reasonable), then I assume that the PIC will still wait
>1024 cycles before executing any instructions, so I
>should not have a problem with ICSP...?

Yep - that 1024 cycle delay is a hardware selection that is made when you
enable XT or HS modes.

Upon reading some of your posts made after I wrote my reply to you, I now
see what your real question was: is there a problem using 2 pin resonators
rather than 3 pin resonators.  My answer: no problem that I am aware
of.  The real advantage of the 3 pin resonators is that you get the
built-in caps almost for free - the cost difference between a 2 pin and a 3
pin resonator is small.

There may actually be an advantage to using 2 pin resonators at high
frequency - you can tailor the caps to match what the PIC internal
oscillator wants to see rather than what the resonator manufacturer thinks
you need.  This may improve operation at high frequencies.

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <dwaynerEraseMEspam.....planet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002)
 .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-
    `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'
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2002\06\27@135115 by Peter L. Peres

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On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Pic Dude wrote:

>Second try.  Surely someone must have an idea about
>using 2-pin resonators with PIC's  ...?

Of course. We're just waiting for you to do something wrong and then we
can help you out. Use two caps with it as you would with a crystal.

Peter

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