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'[PIC]: RE: Reading a thermocouple'
2003\01\05@143003 by Herbert Graf

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> I was wondering if anybody here has any experience reading a
> thermocouple with a PIC?
>
> I want to record engine temperatures up to 1000^C - so I guess my only
> choice is an E-type Thermocouple.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help offered.

       1000 degrees C?? What kind of engine is that!?! :) TTYL

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2003\01\05@143623 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 02:29 PM 1/5/03 -0500, you wrote:
> > I was wondering if anybody here has any experience reading a
> > thermocouple with a PIC?
> >
> > I want to record engine temperatures up to 1000^C - so I guess my only
> > choice is an E-type Thermocouple.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help offered.
>
>         1000 degrees C?? What kind of engine is that!?! :) TTYL


a)      (most likely, IMHO) an EGT sensor for a conventional engine

b)      the engine may be on fire so the cylinder heads may be rather hot

c)      (least likely, IMHO) an adiabatic ceramic military IC engine

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
.....speffKILLspamspam@spam@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

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2003\01\05@144039 by Herbert Graf

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> >         1000 degrees C?? What kind of engine is that!?! :) TTYL
>
>
> a)      (most likely, IMHO) an EGT sensor for a conventional engine

       I have never seen the exhaust manifold of an engine reach anywhere near
1000 degrees C, at that temperature many bad things would happen. 350-400
degrees C yes, but not 1000.

> b)      the engine may be on fire so the cylinder heads may be rather hot

       ROTFLMAO

> c)      (least likely, IMHO) an adiabatic ceramic military IC engine

       Ok, well that one is above my head (and wallet I would assume?). TTYL

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2003\01\05@145942 by PicDude

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Herbert Graf scribbled:
>
>         1000 degrees C?? What kind of engine is that!?! :) TTYL
>


My guess is he's measuring EGT's.
Or maybe he lives near me in Texas? :-)

Cheers,
-Neil.

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2003\01\05@150353 by Herbert Graf

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> Herbert Graf scribbled:
> >
> >         1000 degrees C?? What kind of engine is that!?! :) TTYL
> >
>
>
> My guess is he's measuring EGT's.
> Or maybe he lives near me in Texas? :-)

       Well I looked a little more into it and a reference I found showed that the
max is usually around 1600F, which is higher then I thought but still not
1000C, I guess he just wants a safety factor. TTYL

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2003\01\05@150356 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 02:39 PM 1/5/03 -0500, you wrote:

> > a)      (most likely, IMHO) an EGT sensor for a conventional engine
>
>         I have never seen the exhaust manifold of an engine reach
> anywhere near
>1000 degrees C, at that temperature many bad things would happen. 350-400
>degrees C yes, but not 1000

I think it gets as high as about 650'C near the turbocharger before really
bad things happen. You're right, 700'C or 800'C might be a more reasonable
full-scale range, no point in throwing away 20-30% of the resolution, but
probably not a big deal.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
@spam@speffKILLspamspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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2003\01\05@152022 by Peter L. Peres

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On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

*>I think it gets as high as about 650'C near the turbocharger before really
*>bad things happen. You're right, 700'C or 800'C might be a more reasonable
*>full-scale range, no point in throwing away 20-30% of the resolution, but
*>probably not a big deal.

When an engine is badly set up you can get 1300C easily (complete with
flames and mach diamonds in the exhaust). Your sensors better can take
that if it's for experimental use, or else they be inexpensive and easily
replaced.

Peter

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2003\01\05@152851 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 10:19 PM 1/5/03 +0200, you wrote:

>When an engine is badly set up you can get 1300C easily (complete with
>flames and mach diamonds in the exhaust). Your sensors better can take
>that if it's for experimental use, or else they be inexpensive and easily
>replaced.

Chromel-alumel will take 1300'C for while- depending on the thickness-
it doesn't melt until around 1372.


Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
spamBeGonespeffspamBeGonespaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

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2003\01\05@171147 by Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff

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Hi Guys,

Once again the good 'ol PIC list has not let me down. I only wish I
could contribute as much as I get out of this list!

>>         1000 degrees C?? What kind of engine is that!?! :) TTYL

Well, I've had a fair bit of dealing with Tony Nixon recently, and he
has got me back into my flying again! - Thanks Tony! :-) This years
project is to build a small aircraft.

> a)      (most likely, IMHO) an EGT sensor for a conventional engine

Spehro (and others) got it in one. EGT is an important piece of info -
particularly in Aviation.

> b)      the engine may be on fire so the cylinder heads may be rather
> hot

Well, I think if we get to that stage, all bets are off. Start looking
for a nice place to ditch! :-)

700^C ~ 800^C is fairly typical and most commercial EGT gauges have a
range of 900^C - so I figured a sensor rating of 1000^C. Nice round
number, a small (IMHO) safety margin and some comfort in knowing that
the sensor is still OK - long after there are holes in the pistons! :-)

Thanks to EVERYONE for input. I'll download the application note that
Dave pointed me to.

Cheers,

Sean

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2003\01\05@171601 by Dennis J. Murray

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I'm sorry I didn't get the original post.  If I read this right, you wish to
interface a thermocouple to a PIC??  The temp range of 1000 deg C pretty
much limits you to a type K thermocouple (up to 1250 deg C, I believe).
I've had excellent luck with the Analog Devices T/C conditioner/Setpoint
Controller, type AD597 for a type K thermocouple.  Makes life a LOT easier -
has cold temp compensation AND an amplifier on board.  Output is normally 10
mV/deg C.   Accuracy is supposedly guaranteed to within 4 degrees - if
that's not good enough, then you gotta spring for the more expensive AD595
conditioner.  Not used one, but heard good things about it!

All in all, pretty nice chips!

Good luck, but STAY COOL!
Dennis


{Original Message removed}

2003\01\05@173303 by Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff

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Herbert,

>         I have never seen the exhaust manifold of an engine reach
> anywhere near
> 1000 degrees C, at that temperature many bad things would happen.
> 350-400
> degrees C yes, but not 1000.

Well if I set my system up for 350~400^C (let's call it 500^C for a
safety margin) and installed this system on the aircraft I fly every
other weekend, then I'll fry my sensors shortly after I start the
engine! Probably just as I open her up and start heading down the
runway. I think the gauge is actually scaled from 500 ~ 900 - but I'll
double check tomorrow and let you know. We are still in holiday mode
here, so I hope to go for a fly in the morning! :-)

>> b)      the engine may be on fire so the cylinder heads may be rather
>> hot
>
>         ROTFLMAO

Well, as Spehro has pointed out, 1300 is still possible.

>> c)      (least likely, IMHO) an adiabatic ceramic military IC engine
>
>         Ok, well that one is above my head (and wallet I would
> assume?). TTYL

Me too! :-)

Sean

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2003\01\05@174548 by Brad Woods

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This works well...

http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/arpdf/MAX6675.pdf

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To: <RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: RE: Reading a thermocouple


{Quote hidden}

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2003\01\05@181318 by Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff

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On Monday, Jan 6, 2003, at 09:45 Australia/Sydney, Brad Woods wrote:

> This works well...
>
> http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/arpdf/MAX6675.pdf

Cheers Brad.

Appreciate that very much.

Regards,

Sean

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On Monday, Jan 6, 2003, at 09:45 Australia/Sydney, Brad Woods wrote:


<excerpt><fixed>This works well...


<underline><color><param>1998,1998,FFFE</param>http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/arpdf/MAX6675.pdf</color></underline>

</fixed></excerpt><fixed>

Cheers Brad.


Appreciate that very much.


Regards,


Sean</fixed>


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2003\01\06@084907 by Dennis J. Murray

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Are you SURE you don't mean degrees F????  I used to race and used an EGT to
keep track of exhaust temps.  I had to stay below 1200 degrees F because
aluminum pistons melt at about 1250 F (approx).  At least they get soft
enough that the shock of a high-compression engine detonating the fuel will
blow a hole thru the top of a piston.  Been there, done that - didn't like
it!!

Dennis

{Original Message removed}

2003\01\07@014412 by Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff

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On Tuesday, Jan 7, 2003, at 00:47 Australia/Sydney, Dennis J. Murray
wrote:

> Are you SURE you don't mean degrees F????

Absolutely positive! We converted a long time ago.

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On Tuesday, Jan 7, 2003, at 00:47 Australia/Sydney, Dennis J. Murray
wrote:


<excerpt><fixed>Are you SURE you don't mean degrees F????

</fixed></excerpt>

Absolutely positive! We converted a long time ago.


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