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'[PIC]: Proto board hunting'
2006\06\08@012957 by kravnus wolf

picon face
web.mac.com/brianbr/iWeb/Brian%27s%20WorkBench/MSP430%20/0EFBD2D9-B3CC-4942-8A8D-9E0196C76089.html

Where can I find this board? The dimension is just
nice for my projects? Any sites have them and willing
to ship them to malaysia?

Thanks,
John

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2006\06\08@023347 by Picdude

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face
On Thursday 08 June 2006 00:29, kravnus wolf wrote:
> web.mac.com/brianbr/iWeb/Brian%27s%20WorkBench/MSP430%20/0EFBD2D9-B3
>CC-4942-8A8D-9E0196C76089.html
>
> Where can I find this board? The dimension is just
> nice for my projects? Any sites have them and willing
> to ship them to malaysia?
>
> Thanks,
> John


That's a Radio Shack board -- that webpage even mentions the Radio Shack part number.  Check out http://www.radioshack.com  I know Radio Shack is in other countries, and they ship, but not sure about Malaysia specifically.

Cheers,
-Neil.

2006\06\08@041551 by kravnus wolf

picon face


--- Picdude <spam_OUTpicdudeTakeThisOuTspamnarwani.net> wrote:

> On Thursday 08 June 2006 00:29, kravnus wolf wrote:
> >
>
web.mac.com/brianbr/iWeb/Brian%27s%20WorkBench/MSP430%20/0EFBD2D9-B3
{Quote hidden}

 Radio Shack is not in Malaysia ,Singapore nor near
any ASEAN countries...... If anyone is making an order
to radio shack and willing to ship to Malaysia.....
Long shot. Pls write to me.

John

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2006\06\08@084324 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 6/8/06, kravnus wolf <.....kravnusKILLspamspam@spam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>   Radio Shack is not in Malaysia ,Singapore nor near
> any ASEAN countries...... If anyone is making an order
> to radio shack and willing to ship to Malaysia.....
> Long shot. Pls write to me.
>
> John

The quality of those boards are not good. I was a TA before
in the States and used similar boards from Radio Shack.
If you want, there are many better quality boards in Sim
Lim Tower in Singapore. If you need higher quantity, it
is better to design your own boards and have it made
by a prototyping house. The engineering setup fee needs to
be considered.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\06\08@085734 by Maarten Hofman
face picon face
>
> The quality of those boards are not good. I was a TA before


What is wrong with their quality? I know they are rather expensive for the
amount of board you get, but I've never noticed any quality issues. In fact,
even after extensive reuse the plating seems to stay well connected to the
base, compared to other products I've used. They also tend to require less
cleaning before use (so far I have used about 15 or so).

Greetings,
Maarten Hofman.

2006\06\08@092523 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I know they are rather expensive for the
>amount of board you get,

This will often be the case for proto boards, as the cost of holes during
manufacture is high (read drill bits wear out and need replacing often).

2006\06\08@093056 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 6/8/06, Maarten Hofman <cashimorspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The quality of those boards are not good. I was a TA before
>
> What is wrong with their quality? I know they are rather expensive for the
> amount of board you get, but I've never noticed any quality issues. In fact,
> even after extensive reuse the plating seems to stay well connected to the
> base, compared to other products I've used. They also tend to require less
> cleaning before use (so far I have used about 15 or so).
>
I am not so sure of what you are using. The one we buy for the students
were really not good. The students spent way to much time to solder.
So the next TA did the layout for the board and got the boards
manufactured in China ... So the next batch of students had a much
easier time dealing with soldering.

To be honest, just the color of the board will tell you it is not a very good
one. Maybe my standard of a good prototype board is a bit high after being
spoiled with the high quality prototyping board I was using in the previous
company...

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\06\08@094927 by Robert Young

picon face

>
> >I know they are rather expensive for the
> >amount of board you get,
>
> This will often be the case for proto boards, as the cost of
> holes during manufacture is high (read drill bits wear out
> and need replacing often).

If the Radio Shack boards are of the pressed paper variety (CEM-2?)
instead of fiberglass (FR-4, etc) then they may not be manufactured
using a drilling process but rather punched.

Rob

2006\06\08@103655 by PicDude

flavicon
face
Actually you're right about this.  Those Radio Shack boards are annoying to
work with.  IIRC, the holes are relatively large compared to the component
leads, and add that there is no thru-hole plating, I usually ended up with
large blobs of solder around each pin.  Also cutting the boards is a no-no as
they disintegrate easily.

I have much much better results with my own boards using 4pcb's barebones
service, and they let me put a bunch of circuits on 1 panel.  Can't remember
when last I messed with etching, drilling, and all that stuff.

Cheers,
-Neil.



On Thursday 08 June 2006 08:30, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\06\08@104948 by Maarten Hofman

face picon face
>
> Actually you're right about this.  Those Radio Shack boards are annoying
> to
> work with.  IIRC, the holes are relatively large compared to the component
> leads, and add that there is no thru-hole plating, I usually ended up with
> large blobs of solder around each pin.  Also cutting the boards is a no-no
> as
> they disintegrate easily.


Thank you, that is what I wanted to know. I probably have been working with
inferior products my entire life, and therefore haven't noticed these things
yet (never tried to cut a board either). Note that I consider the boards
from http://www.futurlec.com worse than those of Radio Shack (although they
are better priced).

Greetings,
Maarten Hofman.

2006\06\08@112138 by kravnus wolf

picon face
Xiaofan,

  Where you do get your protoboards from? Selling
them? Any pictures? In short I am interested :) I do
have some for Sim Lim Tower but the board I got were
ok.. Was the shop you refering at the highest floor
stuck away at one corner?

John

--- Xiaofan Chen <EraseMExiaofancspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\06\08@112419 by kravnus wolf

picon face
PicDude,

  Do you have spare boards? What are their
schematics? Generic?

John

--- PicDude <@spam@picdudeKILLspamspamnarwani.net> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\06\08@112748 by kravnus wolf

picon face

>
>
> Thank you, that is what I wanted to know. I probably
> have been working with
> inferior products my entire life, and therefore
> haven't noticed these things
> yet (never tried to cut a board either). Note that I
> consider the boards
> from http://www.futurlec.com worse than those of
> Radio Shack (although they
> are better priced).
>
> Greetings,
> Maarten Hofman.
> --

Thanks for the info as I shop there quite often.
Wouter boards are quite good too much more towards PIC
prototyping?



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2006\06\08@112905 by kravnus wolf

picon face

>
>
> Thank you, that is what I wanted to know. I probably
> have been working with
> inferior products my entire life, and therefore
> haven't noticed these things
> yet (never tried to cut a board either). Note that I
> consider the boards
> from http://www.futurlec.com worse than those of
> Radio Shack (although they
> are better priced).
>
> Greetings,
> Maarten Hofman.
> --



Thanks for the info as I shop there quite often.
Wouter boards are quite good; too much more towards
PIC prototyping.

Thanks,
John

PS: Ignore my previous post

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2006\06\08@120158 by Brian Riley

picon face
It is a Radio Shack 276-150 Project Board ...

 < http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102845&cp>

I always keep a dozen on hand here. If it is not convenient for you  
to purchase through the web I could get some at a local store and  
ship them to you myself. How many would you be looking to buy?

------
cheers ... 73 de brian  riley,  n1bq , underhill center, vermont
 <http://www.wulfden.org/DiskShop.shtml>
   Home of the
      K107 Serial LCD Controller Kit
      FT817 Power Conditioner Kit
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On Jun 8, 2006, at 1:29 AM, kravnus wolf wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\06\08@121011 by Brian Riley

picon face
I do use these all the time, but I must agree the quality is not  
great. HOWEVER, I have found that the simple steps of

    (1) washing hands thoroughly before handling to get oils off the  
hands

    (2) three or four swipes with fine steel wool to the copper side  
to get off any oxidation etc

    (3) plan your work ahead, so that you make sure steps that do  
not require going back again and again to heat any give pad. (these  
board do not suffer unsoldering well, pads come up etc

  ... with those caveats, I have found these boards serve me well  
for 60-75% of my protoyping and they are easily available. Whenever I  
am near a radio Shack and I have a few minutes I stop and see what  
they have and pickup 2-4 so I always have a dozen on hand!


---
cheers ... 73 de brian  riley,  n1bq , underhill center, vermont
 <http://www.wulfden.org/DiskShop.shtml>
   Home of the
      K107 LCD Controller Kit
      FT817 Power Conditioner Kit
      Tab Robot Laser Tag Kit


On Jun 8, 2006, at 9:30 AM, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\06\08@121757 by Brian Riley

picon face
Boy this is getting like a Ford versus Chevy discussion ....

What is your favorite proto board??/

On Jun 8, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Maarten Hofman wrote:

{Quote hidden}

  As I said in another message, I have found the Rat Shack boards to  
be touchy about being unsolder, BUT, being a cheap SOB I cut these  
boards all the time, for years using a fine jeweler saw, and more  
recently I purchased a Ryobi 9" table top band saw ($99 at Home  
Depot) and use a 24 tpi  3/8" metal cutting blade. I have never had  
one of the Rat Shack boards crumble.

> Thank you, that is what I wanted to know. I probably have been  
> working with
> inferior products my entire life, and therefore haven't noticed  
> these things
> yet (never tried to cut a board either). Note that I consider the  
> boards
> from http://www.futurlec.com worse than those of Radio Shack  
> (although they
> are better priced).

Now, I have had good luck with Futurlec proto baords. I particularly  
like the PROTO-777 because it lends it self to .6" wide chips where  
none of the Rat Shack handle them very well.


----
cheers ... 73 de brian  riley,  n1bq , underhill center, vermont
 <http://www.wulfden.org/DiskShop.shtml>
   Home of the
      K107 LCD Controller Kit
      FT817 Power Conditioner Kit
      Tab Robot Laser Tag Kit


2006\06\08@121827 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
IIRC there has been a discussion about this some time ago. Here in
Europe every electronics shop seems to sell protoboards, with either
copper islands or copper stripes. You can check my webshop
(http://www.voti.nl/shop/p/PCBs.html, section "Perfboard"). For some
reason such boards seem to be much less common (or more expensive) in
the USA, maybe in other regions of the world too.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\06\08@122700 by Peter

picon face


On Thu, 8 Jun 2006, Alan B. Pearce wrote:

>> I know they are rather expensive for the
>> amount of board you get,
>
> This will often be the case for proto boards, as the cost of holes during
> manufacture is high (read drill bits wear out and need replacing often).

What drill bits ? The paper board products are punched.

Peter

2006\06\08@123340 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>For some reason such boards seem to be much less common (or
>more expensive) in the USA, maybe in other regions of the world too.

Possibly because of freely available PCB CAD packages (such as eagle) make
it so easy for a hobbyist to design a PCB for a project, and get it made at
a PCB house by emailing the files. No longer is the cost of a PCB specific
to a project such a bar to building something. And proto boards always have
been expensive ...

2006\06\08@125808 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Thu, 2006-06-08 at 10:49 -0400, Maarten Hofman wrote:
> >
> > Actually you're right about this.  Those Radio Shack boards are annoying
> > to
> > work with.  IIRC, the holes are relatively large compared to the component
> > leads, and add that there is no thru-hole plating, I usually ended up with
> > large blobs of solder around each pin.  Also cutting the boards is a no-no
> > as
> > they disintegrate easily.
>
>
> Thank you, that is what I wanted to know. I probably have been working with
> inferior products my entire life, and therefore haven't noticed these things
> yet (never tried to cut a board either). Note that I consider the boards
> from http://www.futurlec.com worse than those of Radio Shack (although they
> are better priced).

Wow, I've very surprised to hear that. I just got my order of futurlec
boards and they are VERY nice. The hole through plating is perfect, the
holes themselves are pretty much exactly the right size, the material is
very solid. I can't find anything to complain about the boards
themselves (now, the time it took to GET the boards was much longer then
I was led to expect).

TTYL

2006\06\08@130436 by kravnus wolf

picon face
Well in Malaysia we have proto board for about USD
0.26 for a small board. Singapore is quite cheap too
and have better quality.

John

--- "Alan B. Pearce" <spamBeGoneA.B.PearcespamBeGonespamrl.ac.uk> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\06\08@131557 by kravnus wolf

picon face

>    As I said in another message, I have found the
> Rat Shack boards to  
> be touchy about being unsolder, BUT, being a cheap

Brian,

Currently I tend to make mistakes and unsolder my
joints for better placement. Thanks for the offer for
the proto board. How is the TI project going on? I am
not sure on the support for the MCU. From the current
mailing list for the Zilog chips , support is going
down down. I tend to stick with good support.

John

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2006\06\08@132035 by kravnus wolf

picon face

With Futurlec shipment time tends to grow long on it's
tooth. Don't expect great delivery time. The funny
thing is that I suspect they have to order parts and
sit on the order until they  have them all. But they
do good on their word. If they can't get the part they
refund you.

John

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\06\08@134912 by w d myrick

picon face
part 1 1099 bytes content-type:multipart/related; type="text/plain"; (decoded 7bit)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C68AF9.CAC92EF0
Content-Type: text/plain;
       charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

John,

YOU MIGHT TRY THIS SELLER ON EBAY

Search for this  Item number:
7623670334.

Seller:paswetland ( 1005)

His store  ONE PASSircuit Store

Derward myrick


{Original Message removed}

2006\06\08@141908 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
Well it's a shame, because I was very happy with their CS, and actually
have been quite happy with the boards. Unfortunately, due to the time it
took to actually GET the boards I doubt I'll go with them again.

What bugged me most was that they said I'd have the boards in a certain
time, which was quite long in my opinion, but I figured they were just
being careful. Yet I got the boards over a week later then their LONGEST
estimate, with no explanation.

They say on their page they'll let you know when the boards are made and
shipped, yet I received no word on any of the progress, and when I
inquired as to how the order was going (6 days after the longest
estimate) I never received a response, to this day.

As my first foray into getting a boardhouse to make one of my boards it
was a relatively pleasant experience (especially since the board works),
but the time factor leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

TTYL

On Thu, 2006-06-08 at 10:20 -0700, kravnus wolf wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\06\08@210230 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 6/8/06, kravnus wolf <TakeThisOuTkravnusEraseMEspamspam_OUTyahoo.com> wrote:
> Xiaofan,
>
>    Where you do get your protoboards from? Selling
> them? Any pictures? In short I am interested :) I do
> have some for Sim Lim Tower but the board I got were
> ok.. Was the shop you refering at the highest floor
> stuck away at one corner?
>
> John
>

In the previous company, we got the boards manufactured
by the profession PCB makers to save cost. Before that we
bought boards from Fanell and RS but the price is high.

In Sim Lim Tower, I saw quite some prototype boards with
okay quality. I think the price is not high. They mainly
target students and hobbyists.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\06\08@225308 by Dmitriy Kiryashov

picon face
Hi John.

Do you have any references to local pcb
manufacturing companies in Malaysia ?


WBR Dmitriy.


kravnus wolf wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\06\09@014542 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
Speaking of prototyping, I'm trying to put together a sort of "survey"
of hobbyist construction techniques, and was wondering whether anyone
knows of tutorials aimed at taking some of the "skill" out of using
various sorts of protoboard construction (especially stripboard,
pad-per-hole board, and bare perfboard (ie point-to-point construction.)

BillW

2006\06\09@021309 by kravnus wolf

picon face
Someone recommended to me. I HAVEN'T used them before
and cannot comment on them. But I believe it is one of
the best offers for low number manufacturing in
Malaysia.
http://www.custompcb.com/

What do you intend to make?

John

PS: I may use them if I can't find good boards myself.
Please feedback if you intend to use them.


--- Dmitriy Kiryashov <vze27bymEraseMEspam.....verizon.net> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

>

2006\06\09@021948 by Charles Craft

picon face
You can give a radio ham a tuna can, a piece of blank PCB and some duct tape and out comes a UHF amp or mixer.
This app note reminded me of something you would see in the ARRL handbook or 73.  :-)

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/1110

Couple of things I cobbled together with this technique.

http://www.mindspring.com/~openview/

{Original Message removed}

2006\06\09@023020 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 6/9/06, kravnus wolf <RemoveMEkravnusEraseMEspamEraseMEyahoo.com> wrote:
> Someone recommended to me. I HAVEN'T used them before
> and cannot comment on them. But I believe it is one of
> the best offers for low number manufacturing in
> Malaysia.
> http://www.custompcb.com/
>
> What do you intend to make?
>
> John
>
> PS: I may use them if I can't find good boards myself.
> Please feedback if you intend to use them.
>

My previous company uses Circuit Image for prototyping. The
quality is quite good. But I am not so sure about the price.
It is not an approved vendor for the mass production since
P+F does have higher quality standard for the production PCB.

The website is:
http://www.circuitimageonline.com.sg/index.htm

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\06\09@023535 by kravnus wolf

picon face
I don mind providing some tips is using protoboard. It
would be great if most of the technique were listed on
one page.

John
--- William Chops Westfield <RemoveMEwestfwspam_OUTspamKILLspammac.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\06\09@212226 by Martin K

flavicon
face
I agree. I think they're crap.
The copper lifts off of the board extremely easily. The holes are not
plated. The board should only cost $1.50.
--
Martin K

Xiaofan Chen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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