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'[PIC]: Project source for ARP/ICMP 3c509b 16F877'
2000\08\20@184626 by JB

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I have made available a portion of my 16F877 project code for use with the 3c509b Ethernet card. This code allows you to 'ping' your PIC/NIC from any PC. Clearly, that is not in itself very useful, but there's more where that came from - I'm still optimizing the TCP/IP code so it can serve status-oriented web pages to any browser and allow remote control in the same manner. This release is more of a preliminary proof of concept than anything else, and a starting point for those of you that have expressed interest in the project.

I would be delighted to know if anyone else get this working:

       http://www.rof.net/yp/alphaone/activities/electronics/3c509b/

You'll have to forgive the lack of comments in the code, it was written for my own personal use.

MEMORY USAGE MAP ('X' = Used,  '-' = Unused)

0000 : X---XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
0040 : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
0080 : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
00C0 : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
0100 : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
0140 : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
0180 : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
01C0 : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
0200 : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
0240 : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
0280 : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX------ ---------------- ----------------
2000 : -------X-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------

All other memory blocks unused.

Program Memory Words Used:   663
Program Memory Words Free:  7529

JB

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2000\08\20@185716 by Scott Dattalo

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On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, JB wrote:

> I have made available a portion of my 16F877 project code for use with the
> 3c509b Ethernet card. This code allows you to 'ping' your PIC/NIC from any

This is just way too cool!

STS, a local computer shop here in Austin, has 3c509-based isa cards on sale:
two for $10! (that's ten dollars, not ten factorial dollars :).

Scott

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2000\08\21@085201 by M. Adam Davis

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Scott Dattalo wrote:
> two for $10! (that's ten dollars, not ten factorial dollars :).

There's a new way of pricing.

I'll sell you three computer systems for only $7!
A hummer (humvee, etc) for only $8!
A new 4 bedroom house in a nice neighborhood for only $9!
Today's lotto is worth $10!

-Adam

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2000\08\21@090647 by Olin Lathrop

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> You'll have to forgive the lack of comments in the code, it was written
for my own personal use.

But you are now showing it to others, making it unforgiveable.

Not properly documenting private code is merely stupid.  Envolving others
elevates it to irresponsible.


*****************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, .....olinKILLspamspam@spam@cognivis.com, http://www.cognivis.com

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2000\08\21@093140 by Bob Ammerman

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Now wait a minute....

While I personally believe that full internal documentation (ie: comments)
are critical for any piece of code, it is hardly cricket to come down on
someone who voluntarily donates a piece of code like this without comments.

Consider the lack of comments an entry barrier: If you can't figure out what
is happening, then you aren't ready to do this stuff!

Yes: it should be commented.

No: it isn't irresponsible or stupid to post this code without comments. It
would probably be irresponsible or stupid to use the code without
understanding it.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

{Original Message removed}

2000\08\21@094553 by Scott Dattalo

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On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> > You'll have to forgive the lack of comments in the code, it was written
> for my own personal use.
>
> But you are now showing it to others, making it unforgiveable.
>
> Not properly documenting private code is merely stupid.  Envolving others
> elevates it to irresponsible.

Uh hmm. Wait a minute. No one says you have to look at it. Chill out.

Scott

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2000\08\21@095214 by Andrew Kunz

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Olin,

Quit being such a negative person.  JB has done the entire PIC community a GREAT
SERVICE.

If you can't handle assembly code with meaningful variable and subroutine names
you have real problems.  His code is a fantastic tool because he's opening it up
so that we can see what's going on, not because it's the most elegant or
well-documented.  For hobby projects, I for one prefer to have something like
this minimally documented in order to make me understand what is happening.
Otherwise I would get too lazy.

Why don't you stop putting people down in order to boost yourself?  If you need
a shoulder to stand on to make yourself look good, find a giant and boost
yourself rather than trying to make him into a midget.

Andy

PS.  If I were as negative as you, I would be picking on your lack of spelling
on this message and on your resume and website, poor etiquette on the list, and
such.  I won't though.











Olin Lathrop <EraseMEolin_piclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTCOGNIVIS.COM> on 08/21/2000 08:46:21 AM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      @spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [PIC]: Project source for ARP/ICMP 3c509b
         16F877








> You'll have to forgive the lack of comments in the code, it was written
for my own personal use.

But you are now showing it to others, making it unforgiveable.

Not properly documenting private code is merely stupid.  Envolving others
elevates it to irresponsible.


*****************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, KILLspamolinKILLspamspamcognivis.com, http://www.cognivis.com

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2000\08\21@095446 by Andrew Kunz

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You beat me to it, Bob!  I started typing out a reply, then went for a walk, and
when I came back yours was here (I hit send on mine before reading yours).

Andy









Bob Ammerman <TakeThisOuTRAMMERMANEraseMEspamspam_OUTPRODIGY.NET> on 08/21/2000 09:24:43 AM

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To:      PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [PIC]: Project source for ARP/ICMP 3c509b
         16F877








Now wait a minute....

While I personally believe that full internal documentation (ie: comments)
are critical for any piece of code, it is hardly cricket to come down on
someone who voluntarily donates a piece of code like this without comments.

Consider the lack of comments an entry barrier: If you can't figure out what
is happening, then you aren't ready to do this stuff!

Yes: it should be commented.

No: it isn't irresponsible or stupid to post this code without comments. It
would probably be irresponsible or stupid to use the code without
understanding it.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

{Original Message removed}

2000\08\21@102723 by jb

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Just to state a little fact here - the comments that you might otherwise
expect to be in the code are actually handwritten in the material in which I
studied to produce it. I find it easier to code if - as a lousy typist - I'm
not slowed by stating the obvious (to me, given my other docs), especially
if the program is at all readable. If I had numerous spare hours or a
financial incentive to produce comments for a personal project, then that
would be another thing. As it is, I would be happy to do so for Olin,
when/if his check for my hourly rate clears the bank.

Many thanks to those of you that understand, though may disagree with my
approach to this. I acknowledge the absence of comments is an inconvenience,
and I might try to work on that for future releases given the unanticipated
level of interest in this. As to Olin, if you don't understand something,
and would rather not pay me for producing comments, you can e-mail me with
your questions after you look over the material indicated on the site.

JB

> {Original Message removed}

2000\08\21@131848 by Olin Lathrop

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> As to Olin, if you don't understand something,
> and would rather not pay me for producing comments, you can e-mail me with
> your questions after you look over the material indicated on the site.

OK, my comments were harsher than they should have been.  It's just that
I've seen a lot of harm caused by undocumented code over the years, some of
which evolved from private projects.  I therefore knee jerk try to squash
this sort of stuff whenever possible.  I didn't look at your code, but was
only responding to your comment about it not being documented.  My personal
opinion is that undocumented code is worse than no code.  Obviously others
disagree with that.

Reasonable documentation is a tool that allows code to be written more
quickly and with fewer errors, let alone the reduced maintainance time.  I
guess more people don't see it that way than I had thought.


*****************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, EraseMEolinspamcognivis.com, http://www.cognivis.com

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2000\08\21@194736 by Bob Ammerman

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Admirable -- he'll even answer Olin's questions!

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

----- Original Message -----
From: jb <RemoveMEalphaonespam_OUTspamKILLspamROF.NET>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Project source for ARP/ICMP 3c509b 16F877


> Just to state a little fact here - the comments that you might otherwise
> expect to be in the code are actually handwritten in the material in which
I
> studied to produce it. I find it easier to code if - as a lousy typist -
I'm
> not slowed by stating the obvious (to me, given my other docs), especially
> if the program is at all readable. If I had numerous spare hours or a
> financial incentive to produce comments for a personal project, then that
> would be another thing. As it is, I would be happy to do so for Olin,
> when/if his check for my hourly rate clears the bank.
>
> Many thanks to those of you that understand, though may disagree with my
> approach to this. I acknowledge the absence of comments is an
inconvenience,
> and I might try to work on that for future releases given the
unanticipated
> level of interest in this. As to Olin, if you don't understand something,
> and would rather not pay me for producing comments, you can e-mail me with
> your questions after you look over the material indicated on the site.
>
> JB
>
> > {Original Message removed}

2000\08\23@125359 by Peter L. Peres
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>My personal opinion is that undocumented code is worse than no code.

My opinion is the other way around ;)

Peter

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