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'[PIC]: Programming the 18Fxxx devices'
2002\05\07@195121 by =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio_Pereira?=

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Hi !

Someone knows any programmer that supports the PIC 18Fxxx devices ???
I finally got my samples of the 18F452 and saw that my JDM-ICPROG can't do it. As far as I saw, the programming protocol is very different than that one of the 16 devices. The 18F devices use a four bit command followed by a 16 bit data (in/out). As I can see, the protocol works by sending PIC instructions through the ICSP interface to the target processor. Anyone knows more about it (more than it is on DS39576A) ????

I think the main problem is only on the software side (IC-PROG in my case), because the hardware (JDM) will probably work ok with the new devices.

If anyone has some idea or know about a free software/programmer that supports the 18F devices, please help.

Maybe we could do some efforts in building our own programmer for that (in fact I'm planning to begin with it anyway). If there is anyone interested ..

Thx,

Fábio Pereira

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2002\05\07@200902 by Chris Loiacono

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I am using 18's also, and I wish there was a good answer to this one.
I did a design with 18C442's with the intent of switching it over to the F's
when they became available, only to find the same problem when I got my
samples about 6 months ago. I was unable to solve this one without buying
another programmer - which I didn't do.
Don't curse me, fellow PICers, but I went with TI MSP430's for new high-end
flash designs. The tools are cheap and good, the architectures are a bit
more flexible, too. I still use F627's & 8's for simpler jobs and when power
is not an issue ...though....still can't beat those PIC's overall.

Chris

> {Original Message removed}

2002\05\07@201311 by Lyle Hazelwood

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I received a reply just last week from Bojan Dobaj, author of  picallw
programming software for the P16pro (and other Tait-style) PIC programmers.
He said that a beta release for the 18F series would be released soon.

I wonder how long it will take for the info to home-build an ICD2 unit
becomes available? In days gone by, I'd have bought one in a second,
but I'm married now. If I can't build it from scratch, I can't afford it.
8^)

Lyle

{Original Message removed}

2002\05\07@202852 by =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio_Pereira?=

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hehe, thats my actual state too, maybe we should try to build it ....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyle Hazelwood" <spam_OUTmotoman9TakeThisOuTspamBELLSOUTH.NET>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Programming the 18Fxxx devices


> I received a reply just last week from Bojan Dobaj, author of  picallw
> programming software for the P16pro (and other Tait-style) PIC
programmers.
{Quote hidden}

case),
> because the hardware (JDM) will probably work ok with the new devices.
>
> If anyone has some idea or know about a free software/programmer that
> supports the 18F devices, please help.
>
> Maybe we could do some efforts in building our own programmer for that (in
> fact I'm planning to begin with it anyway). If there is anyone interested
..
{Quote hidden}

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2002\05\08@080539 by Edson Brusque

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Hello Fabio,

>Someone knows any programmer that supports the PIC 18Fxxx devices ???

   Warp-13 at http://www.newfoundelectronics.com
              http://www.phanderson.com/warp-13.html
              http://www.dontronics.com/newfound.html)

   P16PRO/PICALLW at http://www.picallw.com
       will have a beta version for 18F later this month.

   The Pocket at http://www.bubblesoftonline.com/
       will have suport for 18F added soon.

   Where did you find it? I've asked for samples at Hitech months ago and
haven't received any yet.

   Best regards,

   Brusque

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Edson Brusque                 C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda
Researcher and Developer               Blumenau  -  SC  -  Brazil
Say NO to HTML mail                          http://www.citronics.com.br
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2002\05\08@113836 by Peter Anderson

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Note that the most current firmware for WARP13A is
RedBack8 which was released in late April, 02.

Among other things this fixes the bug associated with
the PIC16F628.  However, it does NOT provide the
capability for programming the PIC18F parts.

I think Jim at http://www.newfoundelectronics.com is
taking a two prong approach to the PIC18F parts; a
firmware upgrade using a PIC18F252 for the WARP-13A
and a new WARP-18.

I have been using the ICD 2 (Microchip DV164007) to
program the PIC18F452.   Some details on the ICD2 with
a tel connector breakout to a breadboard are at
http://www.phanderson.com/icd/icd2.html

http://www.digikey.com has a few DV164007 units.  I
have a limited supply of PIC18F252s in a 28 terminal
SP at http://www.phanderson.com/ordering.html

Peter H Anderson, pha(at)phanderson.com,
http://www.phanderson.com

--- Edson Brusque <EraseMEbrusque.listasspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTCITRONICS.COM.BR>
wrote:
> Hello Fabio,
>
> >Someone knows any programmer that supports the PIC
> 18Fxxx devices ???
>
>     Warp-13 at http://www.newfoundelectronics.com
>                http://www.phanderson.com/warp-13.html
>


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2002\05\18@115100 by engelec

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I use Promate2 works fine.

Andre Abelian



-----Original Message-----
Hi !

Someone knows any programmer that supports the PIC 18Fxxx devices ???
I finally got my samples of the 18F452 and saw that my JDM-ICPROG can't
do it. As far as I saw, the programming protocol is very different than
that one of the 16 devices. The 18F devices use a four bit command
followed by a 16 bit data (in/out). As I can see, the protocol works by
sending PIC instructions through the ICSP interface to the target
processor. Anyone knows more about it (more than it is on DS39576A) ????

I think the main problem is only on the software side (IC-PROG in my
case), because the hardware (JDM) will probably work ok with the new
devices.

If anyone has some idea or know about a free software/programmer that
supports the 18F devices, please help.

Maybe we could do some efforts in building our own programmer for that
(in fact I'm planning to begin with it anyway). If there is anyone
interested ..

Thx,

Fábio Pereira

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2002\05\18@182317 by =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio_Pereira?=

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I'm building a 18F programmer using a 16F628...
I could succesfully send commands to a 18F452 and made it run them. These
are the commands I used (format
is 4 bit ICSP command and 16 bit operand (where applies):

0000 - 0x0EFF   (Movlw 0xff)
0000 - 0x6EF5   (Movwf TABLAT)
0010 - 0x0000   (read the TABLAT register)

With this simple program I could get a 0xFF response from the device ...

I also tried:

0000 - 0x0E3F  (Movlw 0x3F)
0000 - 0x6EF8  (Movwf TBLPTRU)
0000 - 0x0EFF  (Movlw 0xFF)
0000 - 0x6EF7  (Movwf TBLPTRH)
0000 - 0x0EFE  (Movlw 0xFE)
0000 - 0x6EF6  (Movwf TBLPTRL)
1001 - 0x0000  (Executes a TBLRD *+, receives 0x24, that is the DEVICE ID
1)
0010 - 0x0000  (Reads the TABLAT register, again 0x24)

I can send a new TBLRD *+  (1001) and read 0x20 for the device ID 2.

The problem is reading the program memory....

Every address I made a read, returns 0x00 as the received data (that should
be 0xff as the device is blank)...

I could not read 0xff anywhere in the program memory ....

I have tried many ways to read the program memory:

1- After device reset and entering the programming mode, sent a TBLRD *+
that should read address 0x000000. It reads 0x00;
2- Used a preload sequence of the TBLPTR register, like the previous
example, and pointed TBLPTR to many addresses (0x000000, 0x000201). Still
reads 0x00...
3- I had tried a BULK erase command too, but can't tell if it was
succesfull, because I still read the same values at the same addresses. (I
know... I will try soon to program some addresses of the device to see what
happen !)

Anyone could please give me any idea for what else to do, as I'm running
out
of it ...

TIA

Fabio Pereira

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2002\05\19@121829 by Dave Mumert

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Hi Fabio

I am considering building an 18F programmer as well so have looked over the
data sheet a bit.  The only thing I can see is the P5 and P6 delays may not
be long enough.  That is just a guess.  It is difficult to give any
scientific comments without seeing the waveforms for the SCLK and SDATA.

I have some 18F452 and 16F628.  I can breadboard the circuit if you like and
use a digital scope to check the timing.

Let me Know if you need some help.

Dave

>
>  Anyone could please give me any idea for what else to do, as I'm running
> out
>  of it ...
>
>  TIA
>
>  Fabio Pereira
>

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2002\05\19@152413 by =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio_Pereira?=

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> I am considering building an 18F programmer as well so have looked over
the
> data sheet a bit.  The only thing I can see is the P5 and P6 delays may
not
> be long enough.  That is just a guess.  It is difficult to give any
> scientific comments without seeing the waveforms for the SCLK and SDATA.
>
> I have some 18F452 and 16F628.  I can breadboard the circuit if you like
and
> use a digital scope to check the timing.

Thx Dave,

But I don't believe it is the P5 or P6 delays. I am always sucesfull when I
try to read the DEVICE ID space (address 0x3ffffe: 0x3fffff). This is done
with a TBLRD *+ command, the same used to read the program memory. Both
situations use the same delay for P5 and P6, that's why I'm not sure about
these delays been responsible for the problem...

But thanks anyway,

Fabio

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