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'[PIC]: Pic+Ethernet -> Internet'
2000\10\06@052730 by D Lloyd

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Hi,

Does anyone know of information regarding using a standard Ethernet
transceiver, with a PIC, to serve up web pages etc?
I assume that the PIC would have to host the TCP/IP stack, in this
instance.

Regards,

Dan

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2000\10\07@015516 by jamesjennings

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There was one shown in  the october issue of Nuts & Volts magazine that
showed a Pic (I think a 16f877 or similar) that was controlling a standard
ISA card slot through 3 pic ports. The pic was controlling a standard PC
network card (ethernet) and a digital camera and was apparently acting as a
web server posting custom pages that included the digital camera photos. It
was shown as a contest winner and not a lot of details were listed (not like
it was a project article or anything.) Anyone with more details on  this
project please post!

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2000\10\09@061757 by D Lloyd

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Hi,

Are you sure it was October? I have looked on the Nuts and Volts website
and there seems to be no article relating to this for October (or preceding
months). Was it the Microchip project winner being shown?

Regards,

Dan




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Subject:  Re: [PIC]: Pic+Ethernet -> Internet

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There was one shown in  the october issue of Nuts & Volts magazine that
showed a Pic (I think a 16f877 or similar) that was controlling a standard
ISA card slot through 3 pic ports. The pic was controlling a standard PC
network card (ethernet) and a digital camera and was apparently acting as a
web server posting custom pages that included the digital camera photos. It
was shown as a contest winner and not a lot of details were listed (not
like
it was a project article or anything.) Anyone with more details on  this
project please post!

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2000\10\09@110303 by Dan Michaels

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dan.lloyd wrote:

>Are you sure it was October? I have looked on the Nuts and Volts website
>and there seems to be no article relating to this for October (or preceding
>months). Was it the Microchip project winner being shown?
>

I think that article was actually in Ckt Cellar, but I can't
find my issue right now.

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2000\10\09@111337 by D Lloyd

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Hi,

There is an article in CCT Cellar,
http://www.mindspring.com/~dr_ed/awards/pic2k/pic2k.htm, in October. I
assume this is the one?

Thanks for the reply - looks like I'll have to raid the Cellar stocks.

Best regards,

Dan





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dan.lloyd wrote:

>Are you sure it was October? I have looked on the Nuts and Volts website
>and there seems to be no article relating to this for October (or
preceding
>months). Was it the Microchip project winner being shown?
>

I think that article was actually in Ckt Cellar, but I can't
find my issue right now.

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2000\10\09@113221 by Dan Michaels

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At 04:12 PM 10/09/2000 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>There is an article in CCT Cellar,
>http://www.mindspring.com/~dr_ed/awards/pic2k/pic2k.htm, in October. I
>assume this is the one?
>
>Thanks for the reply - looks like I'll have to raid the Cellar stocks.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dan
>

I am sure it is still at the newstands.


{Quote hidden}

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2000\10\09@113424 by Bob Blick

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The same project is in both magazines, I don't know if it is the same
article, but same person/project, yes.

-Bob

> >Are you sure it was October? I have looked on the Nuts and Volts website
> >and there seems to be no article relating to this for October (or preceding
> >months). Was it the Microchip project winner being shown?
> >
>
> I think that article was actually in Ckt Cellar, but I can't
> find my issue right now.

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2000\10\10@115359 by Ken Gasper

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I came across the website of the author of this project and he is selling a
kit.  It can be found at:

http://members.tripod.com/~edward_cheung/

Ken





Bob Blick <RemoveMEbobEraseMEspamEraseMETED.NET>EraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> on 10/09/2000 10:33:19 AM

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Subject:  Re: [PIC]: Pic+Ethernet -> Internet


The same project is in both magazines, I don't know if it is the same
article, but same person/project, yes.

-Bob

> >Are you sure it was October? I have looked on the Nuts and Volts website
> >and there seems to be no article relating to this for October (or
preceding
> >months). Was it the Microchip project winner being shown?
> >
>
> I think that article was actually in Ckt Cellar, but I can't
> find my issue right now.

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2000\10\10@134600 by Bob Blick

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> I came across the website of the author of this project and he is selling a
> kit.  It can be found at:
> http://members.tripod.com/~edward_cheung/

$35 for the source code and an ExpressPCB file. If I'd just won $15,000
cash I think I'd just post it on my web site. Hmphh...

-Bob

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2000\10\10@180642 by Randy Glenn

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Don't forget the $5000 in equipment...

- -Randy Glenn
PICxpert-at-home.com
PICxpert-at-picxpert.com
PICxpert-at-yahoo.com
Randy_Glenn-at-tvo.org

http://www.picxpert.com/

Those packing a big grudge, usually pack a big mouth along with it.

- {Original Message removed}

2000\10\10@203936 by Dale Botkin

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On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Bob Blick wrote:

> > I came across the website of the author of this project and he is selling a
> > kit.  It can be found at:
> > http://members.tripod.com/~edward_cheung/
>
>  $35 for the source code and an ExpressPCB file. If I'd just won $15,000
> cash I think I'd just post it on my web site. Hmphh...

Bob, don't give me that...  you'd have it posted to your site even if you
*DIDN'T* win anything for it.       8-)

Dale
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discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
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2000\10\11@033041 by D Lloyd

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Hi,

There is a "schematic" on the website but the device isn't identified and
there appears to be a "curious" route off the PCB to the Ethernet (via the
PIC - I'm sure that cannot handle 10Mb/sec!)

Oh well!

Dan





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Subject:  Re: [PIC]: Pic+Ethernet -> Internet

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> I came across the website of the author of this project and he is selling
a
> kit.  It can be found at:
> http://members.tripod.com/~edward_cheung/

$35 for the source code and an ExpressPCB file. If I'd just won $15,000
cash I think I'd just post it on my web site. Hmphh...

-Bob

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2000\10\11@033502 by D Lloyd

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Hi,


"Bob, don't give me that...  you'd have it posted to your site even if you
*DIDN'T* win anything for it.       8-)"

On that note.......
Bob - how about knocking together a little PIC <-> Ethernet combo ? ;-)

Regards,

Dan




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On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Bob Blick wrote:

> > I came across the website of the author of this project and he is
selling a
> > kit.  It can be found at:
> > http://members.tripod.com/~edward_cheung/
>
>  $35 for the source code and an ExpressPCB file. If I'd just won $15,000
> cash I think I'd just post it on my web site. Hmphh...

Bob, don't give me that...  you'd have it posted to your site even if you
*DIDN'T* win anything for it.       8-)

Dale
---
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
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2000\10\11@063851 by Craig Peacock

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Something to keep an eye out for is Iready's Internet Tuner Technology.
Many of you may be aware of Seiko's TCP/IP Stack in a chip. It was a
TCP/IP Stack in firmware with 10K SRAM Buffer upon which one end
connected to your uP, while the other was a PPP RS-232 link. You simply
have two 'ports' either UDP or TCP which you can write to. The stack
then encapsulates it taking care of UDP/TCP, IP and PPP. The only
disadvantage of this technology was the PPP interface.

Soon to be available is the same sort of thing, but with Ethernet. This
brings Ethernet and the less powerful 8 bit micros closer together.
Instead of wasting hundred if not thousands of cycles trying to
encapsulate data, and trying to guard against network floods or other
DOS attacks, your PIC can now spend it's time acting as a 8 bit micro,
doing real world things.

If anyone is interested in preliminary information, try

http://www.iready.com/products/products/property/tuner_ethernet/

With the way the future is heading, and if we can buy these devices
cheap, then I would guess these will be very popular I.C.'s in years to
come.

Regards,

Craig Peacock

> Does anyone know of information regarding using a standard Ethernet
> transceiver, with a PIC, to serve up web pages etc?
> I assume that the PIC would have to host the TCP/IP stack, in this
> instance.

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2000\10\11@070832 by D Lloyd

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part 1 2093 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi,

Do you know of availability of this part? It seems pretty new, so I assume
they wont be available to Q3, 2010 but I'd like to believe otherwise.

Regards,

Dan




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Subject:  Re: [PIC]: Pic+Ethernet -> Internet

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Something to keep an eye out for is Iready's Internet Tuner Technology.
Many of you may be aware of Seiko's TCP/IP Stack in a chip. It was a
TCP/IP Stack in firmware with 10K SRAM Buffer upon which one end
connected to your uP, while the other was a PPP RS-232 link. You simply
have two 'ports' either UDP or TCP which you can write to. The stack
then encapsulates it taking care of UDP/TCP, IP and PPP. The only
disadvantage of this technology was the PPP interface.

Soon to be available is the same sort of thing, but with Ethernet. This
brings Ethernet and the less powerful 8 bit micros closer together.
Instead of wasting hundred if not thousands of cycles trying to
encapsulate data, and trying to guard against network floods or other
DOS attacks, your PIC can now spend it's time acting as a 8 bit micro,
doing real world things.

If anyone is interested in preliminary information, try

http://www.iready.com/products/products/property/tuner_ethernet/

With the way the future is heading, and if we can buy these devices
cheap, then I would guess these will be very popular I.C.'s in years to
come.

Regards,

Craig Peacock

> Does anyone know of information regarding using a standard Ethernet
> transceiver, with a PIC, to serve up web pages etc?
> I assume that the PIC would have to host the TCP/IP stack, in this
> instance.

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2000\10\11@074418 by Andrew Kunz

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>There is a "schematic" on the website but the device isn't identified and
>there appears to be a "curious" route off the PCB to the Ethernet (via the
>PIC - I'm sure that cannot handle 10Mb/sec!)


Dan,

If you read the accompanying materials, you will the the "device" is an ISA bus
into which you insert a standard NE2000 card.

The NE2000 was chosen because it will buffer the message for you in its memory.
The PIC doesn't need to handle the high throughput this way.

This is all explained at
http://www.chipcenter.com/circuitcellar/july00/c0700cw1.htm and in other
materials he has published (including the source code he had posted at one
time).

Andy

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2000\10\11@143238 by Andy Howard

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> From: "Andrew Kunz" <spamBeGoneakunz@spam@spamspam_OUTTDIPOWER.COM>
To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Pic+Ethernet -> Internet


> >There is a "schematic" on the website but the device isn't identified and
> >there appears to be a "curious" route off the PCB to the Ethernet (via
the
> >PIC - I'm sure that cannot handle 10Mb/sec!)
>
> If you read the accompanying materials, you will the the "device" is an
ISA bus
> into which you insert a standard NE2000 card.
>
> The NE2000 was chosen because it will buffer the message for you in its
memory.
> The PIC doesn't need to handle the high throughput this way.

I've seen a couple of these designs using ISA cards now, and it's certainly
an easy way to get an ethernet connection. My only concern about using such
a system is how long will ISA network cards (or indeed connectors) be
available. Remember VESA?

I'm still dithering about how best to get a simple (and cheap) way of
connecting devices to Ethernet. There are plenty of off-the-shelf solutions
from 200USD and upwards which isn't really feasible in the kind of simple,
serial-operated remote switch and sensor devices I'm interested in, the
Ethernet connection would more than double the cost. Much more in fact.

Currently I'm waiting on the new Scenix Ethernet devkit to see if that
offers a solution. Most of our devices really don't need anything fancy,
just transparently passing data to and from a pic's rs232 via ethernet to a
PC on the same network would be fine. Web serving etc isn't needed for most
of our applications (though we are looking at one web-interfaced instrument
project, looks like I'll need to start learning Java once I've finished on
C!)












.

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2000\10\11@150720 by Bob Blick

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> Currently I'm waiting on the new Scenix Ethernet devkit to see if that
> offers a solution. Most of our devices really don't need anything fancy,
> just transparently passing data to and from a pic's rs232 via ethernet to a
> PC on the same network would be fine. Web serving etc isn't needed for most
> of our applications (though we are looking at one web-interfaced instrument
> project, looks like I'll need to start learning Java once I've finished on
> C!)

At the Embedded Systems Conference we were talking about bit-banging
ethernet on a Scenix. It might be doable, but I'm not volunteering!

-Bob

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2000\10\11@162304 by Bob Ammerman

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There is really nearly nothing on the ISA card besides the all-in-one
NIC/bus interface/bufferram chip and the line interface. If you have the
ability to handle 100pin QFP parts you can just put the chip on your own
board.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

{Original Message removed}

2000\10\11@162312 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
I am firmly convinced that an 18C at 10MIPs could bit-bang an ethernet
transmission with minimal hardware support. Forget it on receive, though.

Ethernet is manchester encoded. So what you'd need to do is this:

1: Build a little bit of hardware. This has to include the ability to sense
collisions and carrier on the ethernet. It also has to take a 10MBit per
second data stream from the USART TX pin and manchester encode it.

2: Precompute the entire ethernet frame, including CRC, etc and store it in
RAM.

3: Watch the carrier on the ethernet to decide when to transmit. While
transmitting enable an interrupt driven by the collision detect hardware. Do
the transmit by writing the bytes to TXREG, 1 byte every 8 instruction
cycles. You don't even have to check to see if the transmitter is ready, it
will be!

Since this is only one way it would have limited application, although it
would be really neat for things like intruder detection and environmental
monitoring.

Does anybody know of a URL which describes ethernet at the physical level?
I've done some searching and only come up with superficial information.


Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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2000\10\11@165842 by Andy Howard

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Blick" <bobEraseMEspamTED.NET>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Pic+Ethernet -> Internet


> > Currently I'm waiting on the new Scenix Ethernet devkit to see if that
> > offers a solution. Most of our devices really don't need anything fancy,
> > just transparently passing data to and from a pic's rs232 via ethernet
to a
> > PC on the same network would be fine. Web serving etc isn't needed for
most
> > of our applications (though we are looking at one web-interfaced
instrument
> > project, looks like I'll need to start learning Java once I've finished
on
> > C!)
>
> At the Embedded Systems Conference we were talking about bit-banging
> ethernet on a Scenix. It might be doable, but I'm not volunteering!


Me neither!  I think Scenix + Realtek is probably the way to go. Or the new
I-Chip thing that was post here earlier.






.

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2000\10\11@174449 by Andy Howard

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Ammerman" <@spam@RAMMERMANRemoveMEspamEraseMEPRODIGY.NET>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Pic+Ethernet -> Internet


> I am firmly convinced that an 18C at 10MIPs could bit-bang an ethernet
> transmission with minimal hardware support. Forget it on receive, though.
>
> Ethernet is manchester encoded. So what you'd need to do is this:
>
> 1: Build a little bit of hardware. This has to include the ability to
sense
> collisions and carrier on the ethernet. It also has to take a 10MBit per
> second data stream from the USART TX pin and manchester encode it.
>
> 2: Precompute the entire ethernet frame, including CRC, etc and store it
in
> RAM.
>
> 3: Watch the carrier on the ethernet to decide when to transmit. While
> transmitting enable an interrupt driven by the collision detect hardware.
Do
> the transmit by writing the bytes to TXREG, 1 byte every 8 instruction
> cycles. You don't even have to check to see if the transmitter is ready,
it
> will be!
>
> Since this is only one way it would have limited application, although it
> would be really neat for things like intruder detection and environmental
> monitoring.
>
> Does anybody know of a URL which describes ethernet at the physical level?
> I've done some searching and only come up with superficial information.


Have a look at http://www.made-it.com/CKP/ieee8023.html which has some
detail. I seem to remember finding some detailed info on the Cisco site,
unsurprisingly, but I can't find the URL at the moment.

There's also some info to be gleaned from the description of collision
detection in he Crystal CS8900 datasheet
http://www.crystal.com/pubs/8900a.pdf  which is the device used in the
circuit at http://www.embeddedethernet.com

The IEEE spec itself doesn't appear to be available except in return for
large sacks of money - if anyone knows different then please speak up.


Speaking of the embedded ethernet site, has anyone tried that device? Or
looked into it in any detail?  I've just costed the boards at expresspcb and
they work out at under 100 USD for 10 standard prototype style boards.
Tempting, very tempting.



.

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2000\10\11@201451 by Matt Bennett

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face
Craig Peacock wrote:
>
> If anyone is interested in preliminary information, try
>
> http://www.iready.com/products/products/property/tuner_ethernet/
>
> With the way the future is heading, and if we can buy these devices
> cheap, then I would guess these will be very popular I.C.'s in years to
> come.

Unfortunately, the iready etuner ethernet is still pretty far from what
I think most of us want.  I talked to them this afternoon- they haven't
even had them fabbed yet.  Their plan is to use an external PHY (the
physical interface, the part that actually makes the signal, which then
has to be hooked up to a transformer, and then to a connector) using the
IEEE defined MII interface- still not a single chip solution.  They will
sell you the information to integrate their TCP/IP stack and MAC into
your ASIC.  The PHY is one of the harder things to integrate, though
integrated MAC/PHY 10/100 chips do exist (like the Intel 82559 for the
PCI bus).

Ethernet is not necessarily a roll your own solution, especially if you
want to be able to talk to anything under the specification.  By using
someone else's card you will be able to save yourself a lot of
headache.  To do it yourself, you need to start worrying about well
balanced (in impedance and length) high quality transmission lines,
really nice terminations and very precise rise & fall times (you can't
be too fast or too slow) and so on.  To network a PIC, leverage (I have
that term, but its appropriate) the designs that have already been done
with people with a far larger R&D budget.

Matt

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2000\10\11@204229 by Patrick J

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> Speaking of the embedded ethernet site, has anyone tried that device? Or
> looked into it in any detail?  I've just costed the boards at expresspcb and
> they work out at under 100 USD for 10 standard prototype style boards.
> Tempting, very tempting.

I have all the parts here on my desktop. 95% done CAD-ing the PCB.
Should be testing it pretty soon :-)

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2000\10\11@210607 by Dan Michaels

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Speaking of what's all this internet stuff, you might be
interesting in the newest wizzbang "standard" - Home Linking
Technology & ETI Alliance - being used by Sunbeam/Thalia in
new line of home appliances that can talk to each other and
order in, when you're not looking. Do you really want your
refrigerator to have your Visa card number? HLT uses emware's
net-server stuff.

http://www.thaliaproducts.com
http://www.emware.com/partner/eti%20alliance/default.asp

"Sunbeam Makes Smart House Technology Work Today":
http://www.hometoys.com/releases/mar00/thalia01.htm

"Intelligent Appliances from Thalia":
http://www.compukiss.com/clife/thalia/thalia.html

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2000\10\11@231801 by Smith

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I tried to build an Embedded Eathernet system but after
a few failues that were caused by my inability to solder
surface mount parts correctly, I gave up on it for now.
I ended up with one part that LOOKED good, but didn't
work when I built a test circuit.  Bummer.

If someone out there can handle SMD and wants to build
one and verify it is operational, I can supply enough
parts so you can make one or two for yourself. :-)

I am in the US, so US prefered unless there is really
cheap non-two month shipping available.

Curse you SMD devices.. curse you I say...

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2000\10\11@233851 by Dan Michaels

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Ian Smith wrote:


>If someone out there can handle SMD and wants to build
>one and verify it is operational, I can supply enough
>parts so you can make one or two for yourself. :-)
>

>Curse you SMD devices.. curse you I say...
>

Ian, there was a thread about soldering tiny SMT parts a
couple of months ago. Anyone remember the name?

IIRC, all you need are tiny little itty-bitty fingers,
and you can work with them real easy -[just kidding]. One
successful method was to just solder them up - using a lot
of paste under the chip to help prevent solder spread, and
then go back over the pins using solder wick to suck off
the solder bridges between pins. The people with the smallest
fingers swore it was mainly a matter of practice.

- danM

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2000\10\11@234909 by Smith

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On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Dan Michaels wrote:
> Ian, there was a thread about soldering tiny SMT parts a
> couple of months ago. Anyone remember the name?

I read it, and lots of other stuff.  I solder through
hole parts and boards all the time.. I just don't
have the paitence/steadyness to do the fine SMD work.

I did try.. and ended up with some ugly messes that
didn't work at all. :-)

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2000\10\12@004021 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
>IIRC, all you need are tiny little itty-bitty fingers,
>and you can work with them real easy -[just kidding]. One
>successful method was to just solder them up - using a lot
>of paste under the chip to help prevent solder spread, and
>then go back over the pins using solder wick to suck off
>the solder bridges between pins. The people with the smallest
>fingers swore it was mainly a matter of practice.

You can do it without fingers if you use little chunks of tacky stuff sold
at office supply stores for holding papers temporarily - kind of like adult
(not "X" rated) Silly Putty, for holding the parts down while you solder a
couple of pins.

Cheers,

Bob

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2000\10\12@015144 by Bill Westfield

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emWare said at ESC that they had opened up their intermediate protocol...

BillW

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2000\10\12@033552 by staff

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Dan Michaels wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I've replaced a number of these chips with real low-level
technology like a 60w weller. Get lots of solder on one
side, ie one whole row of pins, don't worry about them
shorting out, then when it looks fully wetted do some
skillful solder wicking to remove excess and it's done.
Get a friend to hold a large screwdriver etc on the chip
top to keep it cool when you do this. This sounds
butcherous but 100% success rate, especially when given
time constraints and limited resources.
-Roman

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2000\10\12@034801 by w. v. ooijen / f. hanneman

picon face
>
> At the Embedded Systems Conference we were talking about bit-banging
> ethernet on a Scenix. It might be doable, but I'm not volunteering!
>

I think the decoder state machine would not be a problem (at 100 MHz, 100
MIPS) but there would not be much cycles left to do anyhthing with the
data! Maybe pass it (8 bits parallel) to a second SX or maybe a lowly
(slowly) PIC?

Wouter

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2000\10\12@040735 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Does anybody know of a URL which describes ethernet at the physical level?
>I've done some searching and only come up with superficial information.

I would have thought some of the application notes from national Semiconductor would fill the bill here. Certainly I would look at using their chips rather than trying to bit bang the interface. This way all the collision detection and Manchester encoding conversion is done for you. After all it was their chips which set the NE2000 standard, so using their chips would allow much existing code to be reused.

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2000\10\12@041339 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

I've certainly not got small fingers, the size of my hands is in
proportional to my size 11 feet!  I was a little concerned when I started
work at Nortel, but after a bit of practice I'm quite comfortable soldering
0603 chip caps and resistors, and even TSOP packages aren't too bad.  The
0402 chip caps/resistors are a little tricky...just don't breath anywhere
near them :o)

What is essential for working at this scale on a production basis is a good
microscope, preferably stereo with a good illumination source, but I've
managed at home with one of those bench mounted magnifiers with the circular
flourescent tube built in.  Other essentials, decent temperature controlled
soldering iron with suitably tiny tip, ultra small gauge solder (I prefer to
use this instead of paste for most things), a flux pen, a *good* pair of
tweezers and probably most essential of all, desoldering braid.  Good
eyesight and a steady hand are definate benefits.

With packages like TSOP's, as long as plenty of flux is used and the solder
is applied sparingly the pins rarely get solder links.  If they do, break
out the desoldering braid.

Cheers

Mike

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2000\10\12@070433 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
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On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Dan Michaels wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Another trick is to use modeling clay to temporarily hold the part
stationary.

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2000\10\12@080428 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
>I would have thought some of the application notes from national
Semiconductor would fill the bill here. Certainly I >would look at using
their chips rather than trying to bit bang the interface.

The whole idea is to be able to talk on an ethernet at close to zero (parts,
board space) cost. An also the challenge of doing something they said 'can't
be done'.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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2000\10\12@105741 by Dan Michaels

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BillW wrote:
>emWare said at ESC that they had opened up their intermediate protocol...
>

What exactly does "open up" mean here?

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2000\10\12@115932 by jamesnewton

face picon face
www.piclist.com/../smds

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{Original Message removed}

2000\10\12@123517 by Bill Westfield

face picon face
   >emWare said at ESC that they had opened up their intermediate protocol...
   >

   What exactly does "open up" mean here?

I dunno.  See their web site.  The first FAQ says:

      What is emWare Announcing?

   emWare. is releasing the technical specifications for its emNet7
   networking protocol through its Open Program Access License (OPAL7)
   initiative, making emNet open and royalty free. emWare is also
   releasing its emMicro7 source code for non-commercial deployment.

At the moment, I think "the race" is very interesting (between very small
native TCP/IP implementations, HW-assisted TCP/IP implementations, (ala
iReady, Xilinx), and software "gateways" (emWare.)

BillW

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2000\10\12@131532 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
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I don't use 8051's, but on the SDCC list somebody has mentioned this TCP/IP
stack implementation. I have no idea what the circuit is like.

8052.com/forum/read.phtml?id=5360&top=5424
http://ctrl.se/~marty/tcpip.inc

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2000\10\13@025352 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>tiny fingers to solder SMT

You must be joking. The main thing to do about SMT is NOT to touch them
with fingers. That's what tweezers and vacuum pickups are for I think. The
other main thing is that a hot air tool (lacking an oven) beats all other
soldering methods and provides auto-alignment up to a point when done
right. SMT is wonderful. With through hole parts I have to clip pins and
make holes in the desk and bend chip pins until they all fit into the
holes and make holes in my hands with the sharp leftovers and plan
insertion 1 year ahead because otherwise there are things that can't be
inserted, and when I'm finished the desk looks like I've shaven some
steel-haired beast with clipped pins everywhere, including possibly under
the protoype or inside it. Yes I know about shears with retainers. Do you
know any that work 100% of the time ? I don't. Imho get used to SMT
because through hole is for machines only, and that is because the
machines are STILL around. Not for long though. SMT is state of the art
now. BGA and wafer on board (chip on board) will be very soon.

Peter

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2000\10\13@025952 by dre Domingos F. Souza

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>right. SMT is wonderful. With through hole parts I have to clip pins and
>make holes in the desk and bend chip pins until they all fit into the

       That's right, but where to find the rare solder in paste? I've looked for it for years, and I'm not able to find even ONE supplier...


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       All the best!!!
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2000\10\13@091832 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>The whole idea is to be able to talk on an ethernet at close to zero
>(parts, board space) cost. An also the challenge of doing something they
>said 'can't be done'.

Take a look at FireWire interface chips. They have hardware specs close or
exceeding to what you are looking for. Current chips will do 10MBps ether
easy. Unfortunately I have never seen any of these 'off the shelf'.

It is just barely possible that a IEEE1393 ASIC or FPGA can be programmed
to do 10MBPS ether. I have never tried to look at this, but it's an idea.
The technologoes are close enough speed-wise.

Peter

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2000\10\13@115118 by Dan Michaels

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BillW wrote:
>    >emWare said at ESC that they had opened up their intermediate protocol...
>    >
>
>    What exactly does "open up" mean here?
>
>I dunno.  See their web site.  The first FAQ says:
>
>       What is emWare Announcing?
>
>    emWare. is releasing the technical specifications for its emNet7
>    networking protocol through its Open Program Access License (OPAL7)
>    initiative, making emNet open and royalty free. emWare is also
>    releasing its emMicro7 source code for non-commercial deployment.
>
>At the moment, I think "the race" is very interesting (between very small
>native TCP/IP implementations, HW-assisted TCP/IP implementations, (ala
>iReady, Xilinx), and software "gateways" (emWare.)
>


Yep, all these new "standards" in the comm world, each with its
own "alliance" of big players, is very interesting. Makes your head
spin. The Sunbeam-Thalia-emware-ETI-HomeLinkingTechnology thingie
looks interesting because Sunbeam of course is one of the major
appliance guys. But I guess, next week GE will be out with their
own counter-alliance. More spinning. What fun.

best regards,
- Dan Michaels
Oricom Technologies
http://www.users.uswest.net/~oricom
===================================

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2000\10\13@123453 by Bill Westfield

face picon face
The idea that the current crop of ISA-compatible near-single-chip ethernet
controllers (or the supply thereof) will dissappear with the declining
popularity of ISA in PC-compatible computers is a bit ... disturbing.  I
assume that the the (more widely (than PCs) deployed PCI-based controllers
would be near-impossible for a PIC to talk to?  Of course, if embedded
systems start using realtek (or equivilent) ethernet controllers in
reasonable volumes, the dissappearence of the ISA market might be less of a
worry.

On the other hand, a lot of processor vendors are starting to consider
the possibility of putting ethernet controllers withing their larger
microcontrollers (Motarola does this with 68k and PPC cores already - I
talked to a few other vendors that were thinking about it at ESC.
(They're rather annoyed that there seems to be a clear MARKETING
requirement to implement a 10/100 capable controller concurrently with
equally clear LACK of an ENGINEERING requirement for 100Mbps.)

On the third hand, the realtek (and presumably others) is presumably "just
an asic" - it's conceivable that "they" could re-spin the back end of the
async to replace the ISA interface with something even MORE compatible
with embedded microcontrollers (I2C?)  Hmm...

BillW

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2000\10\14@075611 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>where to find paste

The paste is sold by industrial suppliers. You can sometimes buy a small
quantity for a SMT assembly kit from a kit supplier. Otherwise go ahead
and buy a 2 pound container. Make sure that you know and obtain the
correct make of flux remover for this paste (if required - another 2
pounds).

Last, you can solder simpler SMT projects in an oven or with a hot air
tool without paste by first tinning the board pads (make nice not very
tall beads on all pads), then paint the board with a good liquid
rosin-based flux, place the parts (they will stick to the flux), and
rework with hot air tool. It is important that the flux be rosin based and
that it not boil up when heated. Perhaps preheat to dry it or wait until
it does by itself. Some larger chips need to be pushed down a little while
reworking.

hope this helps,

Peter

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2000\10\15@153558 by hard Prosser

flavicon
face
RS components stock solder "creams" = paste. Fairly dear though @ $NZ267
for a 500gramme pottle.

Richard P









>right. SMT is wonderful. With through hole parts I have to clip pins and
>make holes in the desk and bend chip pins until they all fit into the

       That's right, but where to find the rare solder in paste? I've
looked for it for years, and I'm not able to find even ONE supplier...


--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

       All the best!!!
       Alexandre Souza
       spamBeGonexandinhospam@spam@interlink.com.br

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2000\10\15@155257 by Arthur Brown

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A method I have used for SMD's is as follows Tin the pads with a hot iron
and leave a ridge on the pad this takes a little practice to get right. next
when all pads are tinned, offer the chip up to or over the pads and apply
the iron to the legs of  the chip ether bent out or bent under the chip. as
you run round the legs the solder you left on the pads melt and usualy make
a good joint.

Regards Art



{Original Message removed}

2000\10\18@035004 by Stein Sem-Jacobsen

picon face
I saw something on the net the other day. It deals somhow with the PCI
connection. http://elm-chan.org/reports/pci/report_e.html

Regards
Sem-Jacobsen

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[PICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan B. Pearce
Sent: 12. oktober 2000 10:06
To: spam_OUTPICLISTspam_OUTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Pic+Ethernet -> Internet


>Does anybody know of a URL which describes ethernet at the physical level?
>I've done some searching and only come up with superficial information.

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