Post by thread:[PIC]: PICList in danger? We need a change!

Hi guys, In my humble opinion, I think we should strongly consider changing the format to more of a "bulletin board" type format. I personally would stop reading the list if it went to Yahoo! I would be happy to setup and run good PHP based bulletin board such as http://www.phpbb.com/, and I think the bandwidth would be far less than an email list. We could log on once a day, check only the forums that interest us - IE: EE, PIC, etc. or simply click on a users name to see all posts by them... But the bandwidth does cost $$$ and I think that a user pays system would have merit. $1 per month sounds more than reasonable for all the great help on this list. Just my 2c worth! :-) Regards, Sean -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

I don't remember seeing anything about Yahoo under the [PIC] tag ? Was it sent uner the [Admin] tag ? What was the problem ? Personaly I don't like the ads added to all messages and web pages of Yahoo's origin... Jan-Erik. Sean Alcorn wrote: > In my humble opinion, I think we should strongly consider changing the > format to more of a "bulletin board" type format. I personally would > stop reading the list if it went to Yahoo! -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> I would be happy to setup and run good PHP based bulletin board such as > http://www.phpbb.com/, and I think the bandwidth would be far less than > an email list. We could log on once a day, check only the forums that > interest us - IE: EE, PIC, etc. or simply click on a users name to see > all posts by them... One thing I like about the PIClist is that it comes at me without me having to "log on" or do anything else. I do have a separate mail identity set up for it in Outlook Express so I can keep PIClist mail from my other mail. This allows me to very quickly (usually a couple of seconds: CTRL-ALT-O brings up Outlook Express, ALT-F, S, down arrow, ENTER switches to the PIClist identity. Now it fetches mail and shows it to me automatically). This is so fast I can do it whenever I've got a minute or two waiting on a build, on telephone hold, etc. > But the bandwidth does cost $$$ and I think that a user pays system > would have merit. $1 per month sounds more than reasonable for all the > great help on this list. Reasonable yes, but not pratical. $12/year certainly wouldn't break me, but I'd be outta here immediately (and I suspect many others too) if anyone tried to collect money from me. Occasionally I think I should unsubscribe anyway because sometimes I spend more time on the PIClist than I should. Yes I know the bandwidth costs money, but it just doesn't feel right to pay for it. I can't justify this position economically, and maybe it's not even rational, but I won't pay to be on the PIClist. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff wrote: > I personally would stop reading the list if it went to Yahoo! Me too. In a heartbeat. > I would be happy to setup and run good PHP based bulletin board such as > http://www.phpbb.com/, and I think the bandwidth would be far less than > an email list. We could log on once a day, check only the forums that > interest us - IE: EE, PIC, etc. or simply click on a users name to see > all posts by them... I use PHPBB... however, one of the things I really like about the list is its delivery via email. I use a few web based forums and would not like them for this list. Call me a Luddite, I guess. > But the bandwidth does cost $$$ and I think that a user pays system > would have merit. $1 per month sounds more than reasonable for all the > great help on this list. Well, it would certainly cut down on all the message traffic anyway. I suspect about 20% of the users would stay, if that many. Dale -- It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off. PicoKeyer is available for the Rock-Mite! http://www.hamgadgets.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Vasile Surducan wrote: > I had this feeling too. So I'm wandering what's new here after almost > one half year being unsubscribed... I saw Olin's presence, and I'm glad > he's OK. I hope the other piclisters too. Vasile! Welcome back. In answer to your question, not much new. Dale -- It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off. PicoKeyer is available for the Rock-Mite! http://www.hamgadgets.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

pic microcontroller discussion list <> wrote on Friday, August 01, 2003 1:31 PM: >> I would be happy to setup and run good PHP based bulletin board such >> as http://www.phpbb.com/, and I think the bandwidth would be far >> less than an email list. We could log on once a day, check only the >> forums that interest us - IE: EE, PIC, etc. or simply click on a >> users name to see all posts by them... > > One thing I like about the PIClist is that it comes at me without me > having to "log on" or do anything else. I agree with that, I wouldn't bother reading if it was on a web page. I typically download email offline and read it when I get time, I wouldn't be even slightly interested in reading it on a web browser. >> But the bandwidth does cost $$$ and I think that a user pays system >> would have merit. $1 per month sounds more than reasonable for all >> the great help on this list. > > Reasonable yes, but not pratical. $12/year certainly wouldn't break > me, but I'd be outta here immediately (and I suspect many others too) Again, I'd be the same. Piclist has undoubtedly saved me time and effort over the years, but it has cost me time and effort too. If I was being charged to contribute, I would lose interest overnight, even though I would miss most aspects of it, a lot. Like Olin, I realise that may be irrational, but it would tend to penalise those who answer more than they ask, and they are among the most valuable list members. I'm not sure why this discussion came about, I seem to have missed some messages somewhere, but I would be surprised if there wasn't a piclist member (or even microchip- this must get them at least some sales?) who could provide list hosting services if/when the kind folks at mit.edu can't. Alternatively, it could move to usenet, even 'stealing' space on one of the groups with [PIC] headers etc would be preferable. There are lots of good ways to run discussion groups (and most have been around for decades!), 'the web' isn't one, at least not yet. Nigel -- Nigel Orr, Design Engineer spam_OUTnigelTakeThisOuTaxoninstruments.co.uk Axon Instruments Ltd., Wardes Road,Inverurie,Aberdeenshire,UK,AB51 3TT Tel:+44 1467 622332 Fax:+44 1467 625235 http://www.axoninstruments.co.uk -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

>> I personally would stop reading the list if it went to Yahoo! > > Me too. In a heartbeat. Where is this Yahoo thing come from anyway. I haven't heard anyone talking about moving the list to Yahoo, so why is this an issue? ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:27:06 -0400, you wrote: >>> I personally would stop reading the list if it went to Yahoo! >> >> Me too. In a heartbeat. > >Where is this Yahoo thing come from anyway. I haven't heard anyone >talking about moving the list to Yahoo, so why is this an issue? It came from the possibility mentioned in the message that started all this of the list closing down. The gist was simply that _IF_ closing down the current system was the only option, moving it to Yahoo would be better than closing it down as it would provide a very similar service to th epresent one. For some reason some people have some objection in principl to using Yahoo, but the reasons for this are still somewhat unclear. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

--Apple-Mail-2--165774752 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Friday, Aug 1, 2003, at 23:27 Australia/Sydney, Olin Lathrop wrote: > Where is this Yahoo thing come from anyway. I haven't heard anyone > talking about moving the list to Yahoo, so why is this an issue? There has been 135 posts on this issue, Olin. Some with [OT:] (incorrect tag), some with half a tag ] and others with [PIC]: Sean -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics --Apple-Mail-2--165774752 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Friday, Aug 1, 2003, at 23:27 Australia/Sydney, Olin Lathrop wrote: <excerpt><fixed>Where is this Yahoo thing come from anyway. I haven't heard anyone talking about moving the list to Yahoo, so why is this an issue? </fixed></excerpt><fixed> There has been 135 posts on this issue, Olin. Some with [OT:] (incorrect tag), some with half a tag ] and others with [PIC]: Sean</fixed> --Apple-Mail-2--165774752--

I am a "user" of at least one other mail-list hosted at Yahoo. (It's a local astronomy club) It works, but (in the beginning at least) each message had an add-footer added by the Yahoo servers. This is an (old) example : ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/2.XolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> But, I havn't seen these lately, I don't know why. It *might* have something to do with if your are a paying customer to Yahoo or not... Besides of this, *I* can't see any major problem as a *user* with the Yahoo groups... Jan-Erik. Mike Harrison wrote : > For some reason some people have some objection in principl > to using Yahoo, but the reasons for this are still somewhat unclear. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> It came from the possibility mentioned in the message that started all > this of the list closing down. I never saw that message. Why would the list need to close down? Is MIT getting tired of the bandwidth useage? ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Mike Harrison <.....mikeKILLspam@spam@WHITEWING.CO.UK> wrote: > On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:27:06 -0400, you wrote: > > >>> I personally would stop reading the list if it went to Yahoo! > >> > >> Me too. In a heartbeat. > > > >Where is this Yahoo thing come from anyway. I haven't heard anyone > >talking about moving the list to Yahoo, so why is this an issue? > > It came from the possibility mentioned in the message that started all > this of the list closing down. Which went out under the [OT:] tag, so many people like Olin never saw it. Odd thing to do for a message titled "PICList in danger. Calling all members." -- Dave Tweed -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

The thread started on the [OT] channel a couple of days ago. To summarize (heavily) what I've read, see the archives if you want the details. Admins/anyone please correct me if I get any of this summary wrong. MIT is forcing a change to new mail list software. All the Admins are extremely overloaded already and can't give the extra time to make the change. It was suggested, by Jory IIRC, that maybe it is time to let PIClist expire. James posted a message to [OT] stating the problem and requesting new Admin volunteers. In typical PIClist fashion :-), this immediately prompted lots of suggestions for alternate ways of doing the PIClist including Yahoo Groups, Microchip support, paid subscriptions, newsgroup, etc.... A further message from James clarified what an Admin needs to do. So, from what I remember reading, basically the important message is the Admins need someone to volunteer one hour per day seven days a week to keep PIClist going. AFAIK, no one has yet volunteered. Paul > {Original Message removed}

Olin Lathrop wrote: > > It came from the possibility mentioned in the message that > > started all this of the list closing down. > > I never saw that message. Why would the list need to close > down? Is MIT getting tired of the bandwidth useage? > No, MIT is getting tired of paying electricity bills for old VMA systems, I think. By the way, Mailman is reported to have a lot of issues with the super-extra-turbo-glorious MS software, particularly with Outlooks. Hey, funny days are coming, will you keep on teaching newbies to do impossible with their printed-quotable? Mike. P.S. Hmm, what is it "useage" in the sentence "Is MIT getting tired of the bandwidth useage", does anybody know? My vocabulary is weak :-) (Neil, could you please do not comment :-))) -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> P.S. Hmm, what is it "useage" in the sentence "Is MIT getting > tired of the bandwidth useage", does anybody know? In this case it refers to the bandwidth used up by the PIClist. In other words, bandwidth MIT is paying for and giving to the PIClist for free. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Friday 01 August 2003 10:42, Mike Singer scribbled: > P.S. Hmm, what is it "useage" in the sentence "Is MIT getting > tired of the bandwidth useage", does anybody know? My vocabulary > is weak :-) (Neil, could you please do not comment :-))) Do you mean me? If so, why? Do you think I'll poke fun at your English? If so, I cannot see why you'd think that. Are you confusing me with someone else? Or did you mean some other Neil? Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Neil wrote: > > P.S. Hmm, what is it "useage" in the sentence "Is MIT getting > > tired of the bandwidth useage", does anybody know? My vocabulary > > is weak :-) (Neil, could you please do not comment :-))) > > Do you mean me? If so, why? Do you think I'll poke fun at > your English? If so, I cannot see why you'd think that. Are > you confusing me with someone else? Or did you mean some other > Neil? Hi, Neil. Take it easy. This was a joke on Olin's "useage" word. I mentioned you, because you poked him once in similar case, if I recall correctly. My apologies if this offended you. The joke was not clear, sorry, as you see Olin replied: > > P.S. Hmm, what is it "useage" in the sentence "Is MIT > > getting tired of the bandwidth useage", does anybody know? > > In this case it refers to the bandwidth used up by the > PIClist. In other words, bandwidth MIT is paying for and > giving to the PIClist for free. Mike. P.S. I use to think "useage" should be written as "usage". Can't believe American English could add extra letter to British English word. Am I wrong? -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> P.S. I use to think "useage" should be written as "usage". > Can't believe American English could add extra letter to > British English word. Am I wrong? You never know, although usually it's the other way around. For example we write "color" whereas they insist on an extra (and silent) "u" by writing "colour". There are also some strange pronounciations. We write "aluminum" and say "ah-LOO-mi-num" like you'd expect. Brits say "al-u-MIN-i-um" and I'm not sure if they write it differently or throw in the extra sylable just because. Then there are a few outright different words for the same thing, like "truck" and "lorry". And "fag" has a very different meaning depending on which side of the atlantic you're on. Canadian english is mostly like American english except that you add ", aye" to the end of every other sentence ;-) ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Thank you for the discussion. I need it to improve my English Mike. Olin Lathrop wrote: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > P.S. I use to think "useage" should be written as "usage". Can't > believe American English could add extra letter to British English > word. Am I wrong? You never know, although usually it's the other way around. For example we write "color" whereas they insist on an extra (and silent) "u" by writing "colour". There are also some strange pronounciations. We write "aluminum" and say "ah-LOO-mi-num" like you'd expect. Brits say "al-u-MIN-i-um" and I'm not sure if they write it differently or throw in the extra sylable just because. Then there are a few outright different words for the same thing, like "truck" and "lorry". And "fag" has a very different meaning depending on which side of the atlantic you're on. Canadian english is mostly like American english except that you add ", aye" to the end of every other sentence ;-) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> You never know, although usually it's the other way around. For example > we write "color" whereas they insist on an extra (and silent) "u" by > writing "colour". One might also argue that we pared the "u" from "ou" and "a" from "ae" (ref: encyclop(a)edia) instead of them adding something extra.... :-) > There are also some strange pronounciations. We > write "aluminum" and say "ah-LOO-mi-num" like you'd expect. Brits say > "al-u-MIN-i-um" and I'm not sure if they write it differently or throw > in the extra sylable just because. It's written 'aluminium' in British English. Cheers, Ishaan -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

>> There are also some strange pronounciations. We >> write "aluminum" and say "ah-LOO-mi-num" like you'd expect. Brits say >> "al-u-MIN-i-um" and I'm not sure if they write it differently or throw >> in the extra sylable just because. > >It's written 'aluminium' in British English. FWIW in Swedish we spell and pronounce like British, so that *must* be the right way.. ;) -So what does this have to do with PICs? Of course: the conductors on the chip surface are made of aluminium! :) /Morgan -- Morgan Olsson, Kivik, Sweden -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Saturday, Aug 2, 2003, at 02:21 Australia/Sydney, Picdude wrote: > But yes, in the meanwhile, there has been a lot of wandering > speculation about > what will/could/should happen. And it's not a bad thing. Although > (most) > people are generally resistant to change, change is still good, and > introduces us to new benefits we may like and not yet know that we > will. As > long as it's planned properly though. Well put Neil! Cheers, Sean -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

--Apple-Mail-2--123811386 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Saturday, Aug 2, 2003, at 07:36 Australia/Sydney, Randy Jones wrote: > Sheesh, and I always thought it was spelled "..., eh" ;o) Yes! I have a T-Shirt to prove it! Olin is not quite up to speed with the correct usage of eh! or eh? :-) Sean -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics --Apple-Mail-2--123811386 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Saturday, Aug 2, 2003, at 07:36 Australia/Sydney, Randy Jones wrote: <excerpt><fixed>Sheesh, and I always thought it was spelled "..., eh" ;o) </fixed></excerpt><fixed> Yes! I have a T-Shirt to prove it! Olin is not quite up to speed with the correct usage of eh! or eh? :-) Sean</fixed> --Apple-Mail-2--123811386--

>>> I personally would stop reading the list if it went to Yahoo! >> >> Me too. In a heartbeat. > > Where is this Yahoo thing come from anyway. I haven't heard anyone > talking about moving the list to Yahoo, so why is this an issue? Someone proposed to move the list to yahoo groups. I and others were against it (and I still am). But I'd like to mention that the yahoo groups now feature delivery and posting by email too. The one group I'm subscribed to does this (posting and reading by email). If it wouldn't I wouldn't be on it. So it is possible to move a group to yahoo and keep it a mailing list as it was. Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Friday 01 August 2003 15:48, Mike Singer scribbled: > Neil wrote: > > > P.S. Hmm, what is it "useage" in the sentence "Is MIT getting > > > tired of the bandwidth useage", does anybody know? My vocabulary > > > is weak :-) (Neil, could you please do not comment :-))) > > > > Do you mean me? If so, why? Do you think I'll poke fun at > > your English? If so, I cannot see why you'd think that. Are > > you confusing me with someone else? Or did you mean some other > > Neil? > > Hi, Neil. > Take it easy. This was a joke on Olin's "useage" word. > I mentioned you, because you poked him once in similar case, if > I recall correctly. My apologies if this offended you. Mike, no, it did not offend, but I just wondered why. If you checked the archives/history of that message to properly understand the context, you'll notice that I was trying to prove a point at the time. I am not part of the regular grammar police on this list, and your singling me out as such insinuated that I am. So obviously I'll ask why. Unless of course, you *have* given me a reason to direct similar comments to you, which I must've missed... :-) Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Neil wrote: > ... I am not part of the regular grammar police on this list, > and your singling me out as such insinuated that I am... OK, Neil, but what's wrong with "regular grammar police on this list"? Anybody could benefit of this. > So obviously I'll ask why. Unless of course, you *have* given > me a reason to direct similar comments to you, which I must've > missed... :-) ... :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Mike. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

"Peter L. Peres" wrote: > > >>> I personally would stop reading the list if it went to Yahoo! > >> > >> Me too. In a heartbeat. > > > > Where is this Yahoo thing come from anyway. I haven't heard anyone > > talking about moving the list to Yahoo, so why is this an issue? > > Someone proposed to move the list to yahoo groups. I and others were > against it (and I still am). But I'd like to mention that the yahoo groups > now feature delivery and posting by email too. The one group I'm > subscribed to does this (posting and reading by email). If it wouldn't I > wouldn't be on it. So it is possible to move a group to yahoo and keep it > a mailing list as it was. That option (email interaction only) has ALWAYS been available with Yahoogroups. The main difference is that you issue commands by using a particular address, rather than commands in the body of the message. e.g. ".....listname-subscribeKILLspam.....yahoogroups.com" I offered yahoo as quick and immediate option, particularly since the list robot automatically takes care of bounces and bad addresses. The version of Mailman that I also use is not as good. I moderate a yahoo list with 4200+ members, 80+ posts a day, and I have maybe one adminstrative issue a month to deal with. FAR less than the hour a day the current list robot apparently takes. I'm quite happy to see the list running at MIT on mailman, but the initial message about 'administrator burn out' suggested that implied a decision needed to be made quickly, and I offered an easy, good (IMO) option. Yahoogroups is good enough for Motorola's official lists, so why isn't it good enough for the Piclist? Now shouldn't this thread be moved back to [OT]: or [Admin]: where it rightfully belongs? Robert -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Isn't that part of the issue - NONE of them are funded. :-) -------Original Message------- From: Tim Webb <EraseMEtim_webbspam_OUTTakeThisOuTAGILENT.COM> Sent: 08/01/03 11:14 AM To: PICLISTspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [PIC]: PICList in danger? We need a change! > > We are probably not helping much right now by talking [OT] in [PIC] and using unnecessary bandwidth... Better yet, if it's a cost savings thing and this place is called the "PICList", why not just terminate all topics other than [PIC]? (For example: [OT], [BUY], [AD], [EE], [SX], & [AVR]) I am sure those other topics are nice, but maybe they should be funded somewhere else. -----Original Message----- From: Olin Lathrop [@spam@olin_piclistKILLspamEMBEDINC.COM] Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 8:58 AM To: KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [PIC]: PICList in danger? We need a change! > P.S. Hmm, what is it "useage" in the sentence "Is MIT getting > tired of the bandwidth useage", does anybody know? In this case it refers to the bandwidth used up by the PIClist. In other words, bandwidth MIT is paying for and giving to the PIClist for free. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Sunday, Aug 3, 2003, at 11:27 Australia/Sydney, Robert Rolf wrote: > Now shouldn't this thread be moved back to [OT]: or [Admin]: where > it rightfully belongs? Why? The original post said "Calling all Members" - yet it is now quite apparent that many people on the list had no idea that this discussion was even taking place! Quite an important discussion - I would think. It's sort of like living in an apartment with 2000 people and a handful of them are running around trying to work out how to pay the rent. The others won't know about it until we are evicted! :-) Sean -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

The very question about "to be or not to be" regarding the list, can't be [OT], can it ? What I havn't understood is : - What would the *real* problem be to have the PIClist hosted on Yahoo (using email as "interface") ? - Is there a *real* need to move PIClist away from the current host (MIT) ? (As I don't get [OT] posts, I may have missed the answers to this questions...) Jan-Erik. On Sunday, Aug 3, 2003, at 11:27 Australia/Sydney, Robert Rolf wrote: > Now shouldn't this thread be moved back to [OT]: or [Admin]: where > it rightfully belongs? -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> OK, Neil, but what's wrong with "regular grammar police on this > list"? Do you really want everything you say picked apart in detail, even when the content is clear? I don't. I have no problem with people like you that obviously aren't native english speakers but try to say things correctly. I can't stand lazy people who know better but can't be bothered to insert periods, capatalize the start of sentences, spell out "you" instead of typing "u", etc. It basically says: "I'm so much more important than you all, so I can save myself a couple of keystrokes. It is of no concern that this may make my message more difficult and annoying to read for 2000 people since they are irrelevant anyway". Of course this is not a smart thing to do when asking these same 2000 people for a favor... > Anybody could benefit of this. ^^ FROM this ;-) ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spamBeGonelistservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Olin Lathrop wrote: > > OK, Neil, but what's wrong with "regular grammar police > > on this list"? > > Do you really want everything you say picked apart in detail, > even when the content is clear? I don't. I have no problem > with people like you that obviously aren't native english > speakers but try to say things correctly. Do I want English lesson for free? Yes, I do, really. (To the extent of these things are allowed by PICList rules :-) Do you want? Frankly, Olin you are the most popular person on the List. Many list members use to take you words as axiom. Is it OK you are teaching them to high standards of coding using non-so-correct English sometimes? Look here, please: > I can't stand lazy people who know better but can't be bothered > to insert periods, capatalize the start of sentences,... "capatalize" or "capitalize" ? "Re: [PIC]: brain teaser": > > Could anybody explain me is "challange" just misspelling > > of "challenge" > Yup, just a typo on my part. "Re: [PIC]: PICList in danger? We need a change!" > ... Is MIT getting tired of the bandwidth useage? "useage" or "usage" ? Of course it's for free, and it's your right, but why not be consistent: similar high standards for the coding language and for English language usage? > > Anybody could benefit of this. > ^^ > FROM this ;-) OK, I confused "benefit" noun with "benefit" verb. Thanks for the tip. (Googled and found: I'm not along with this mistake :-) Mike. P.S. What does "fessed up" mean? Does anybody now? "Re: [PIC]: You gotta be kidding me (PIC18FXX20 Rev A3)" > > What a bogus thing. > At least they finally fessed up. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email TakeThisOuTlistservEraseMEspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

This one has strayed seriously OT, guys. D'you mind? Thanks. On Sun, 3 Aug 2003, Mike Singer wrote: > Olin Lathrop wrote: > > > OK, Neil, but what's wrong with "regular grammar police > > > on this list"? 8<snip... Dale -- It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off. PicoKeyer is available for the Rock-Mite! http://www.hamgadgets.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservEraseME.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

On Saturday 02 August 2003 15:43, Mike Singer scribbled: > OK, Neil, but what's wrong with "regular grammar police on this > list"? Anybody could benefit of this. There are 2 basic types of mistakes I see with the text on this (and other) forums ... grammatical/usage errors, and "fat-fingered" mistakes (slang term meaning typograpical errors). For grammatical errors, it's sometimes obvious that people don't know the proper form, and sometimes it's obvious that that is because they are not native English speakers. And only in that case, would I bother to correct anyone, but I do so in private -- sending only the poster an email politely explaining the term. I have done this 3 or 4 times to date on this list. *I* define "grammar police" as someone who has to scold the poster publicly on the list, for a mistake, and there is no need for that. Sure, others can benefit from it, but this it not an English-grammar forum, so touch luck. Scolding someone publicly on the list for a typo is even worse I think. People make mistakes, and it gets annoying when people the grammar police attack every little typo. If the intent of the original message is understood, then what's the problem? On the other hand, if a typo or grammatical error changes the statement to something funny, I have no problem sharing a good laugh with the rest of the list. :-) Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservEraseMEEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Dale, forgive me please, just few words. Neil wrote: > *I* define "grammar police" as someone who has to scold > the poster publicly on the list, for a mistake, and there > is no need for that. For professionals English language is a professional instrument for communication. It's not "scolding the poster publicly". It's a generous effort to help the poster avoid future mistakes, that could save him reputation, job etc. in the future. > Sure, others can benefit from it, but this it not an > English-grammar forum, so touch luck. Agreed, this is not an English-grammar forum, this is much more - PICList :-) > If the intent of the original message is understood, > then what's the problem? Who is to judge that "intent of the original message is understood" by _ALL_ members? That's the problem. Best Regards. Mike. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

We should actually move this to OT. I get OT. If you do also, let's switch over. In the meanwhile, I do actually mean "scold", instead of "inform". Helping the poster (and others) is fine. It's the attitude and the way of pointing it out that bothers me. For example, look thru the archives and you'll see posts where no tag was present. In those cases, I've added a tag, and mentioned "Tag added." in the message. There are others who would "scold" the poster for not having a tag. > Who is to judge that "intent of the original message is > understood" by _ALL_ members? That's the problem. The reader(s). If anyone does not understand, but they are interested in finding out, they should/will ask. Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Odd, I have a different email for everything/everyone, so I know where my spam comes from. I don't get any from yahoo, but I have a hotmail account that is literally 99% spam. I only use it if I'm forced to register on some website, and they demand an email addr to send a password or activation link, etc. I recently got a new domain name, and it seems as though the last folks switched it for a hyphenated version due to spam. Now I have to block emails to any names I don't need/have/want. Cheers, -Neil. On Sunday 03 August 2003 18:50, Tim Tapio scribbled: {Quote hidden}> I have found that when I filtered out yahoo.com addresses, I cut my spam in > half. When I contacted Yahoo, they give me the shrugged shoulders and > "there's nothing we can do" response. I no longer subscribe to any of the > lists on Yahoo...unfortunate...but either that or I get a hundred offers > for drugs, sexual enhancements and porn sites.... > > Thanks but no thanks... > > Tim > > > > {Original Message removed}

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 19:50:23 -0400, Tim Tapio wrote: > I have found that when I filtered out yahoo.com addresses, I cut my > spam in half. When I contacted Yahoo, they give me the shrugged > shoulders and "there's nothing we can do" response. I no longer > subscribe to any of the lists on Yahoo...unfortunate...but either > that or I get a hundred offers for drugs, sexual enhancements and > porn sites.... > > Thanks but no thanks... You setup your privacy settings wrong (or didn't set them at all). I'm a member of about 20 Yahoo groups (using several separate email accounts so I can track spam) and get zero spam in them. No spam is one of the things I actually LIKE about Yahoo groups. They munge your email address when you post so no bots can harvest the messages. The Yahoo "spam problem" is FUD, in my experience. I get much more spam from people who have harvested my email address from the PIClist... Matt Pobursky -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservSTOPspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Olin Lathrop wrote: >>P.S. What does "fessed up" mean? > > > Admitted to something that could be detrimental to the admitter. Should be typed, "'fessed", as in "confessed". "'fessed up" is English slang for making a confession. Can also be used as a demand, as in: "'Fess up!" Another example: "Olin's interrogators tortured him with painful electric shocks until he 'fessed up to drinking the last can of beer." Or something like that... (GRIN!). Sorry to continue the off-topic thread, but I hope it helps some non-native English speakers. -- Nate Duehr, spamBeGonenateSTOPspamEraseMEnatetech.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email KILLspamlistservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

>I have found that when I filtered out yahoo.com addresses, >I cut my spam in half. I think you need to look at how the addresses are sent on the emails from the yahoo Groups. These are not just @yahoo.com, but come through as yahoogroups.com The only ones that come through as yahoo.com are those which actually use yahoo as there ISP account for their mail. I am on also on 12 yahoo groups lists and do not get any noticable spam from being there. The spam I do get seems to be because of auto generated addresses. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu