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'[PIC]: PIC32MX'
2007\11\05@094815 by WH Tan

picon face
Wow! Just noticed that some preliminary data sheet have been release
today!  Check "what's new" page. ;-)


Best regards,

--
WH Tan

2007\11\05@101557 by WH Tan

picon face
Among those documents released, this kit seems to be the first demo for PIC32:

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/PIC32_UsersGuide.pdf


At a glance:

- is a 3.3V device

- look like no ICD2, Real ICE support - using onbaord debugger which
consists of a PIC18F4550.

- the ASM tool suite is call ASM32

- the compiler sounds like MPLAB C32.





--
WH Tan

2007\11\05@105320 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>- the ASM tool suite is call ASM32
>
>- the compiler sounds like MPLAB C32.

So the rumours are coming true ???

2007\11\05@105656 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face

>-----Original Message-----
>From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu]
>On Behalf Of WH Tan
>
>Among those documents released, this kit seems to be the first
>demo for PIC32:
>
>http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/PIC32_UsersGuide.pdf
>
>At a glance:
>- is a 3.3V device
>- look like no ICD2, Real ICE support - using onbaord debugger
>which consists of a PIC18F4550.
>- the ASM tool suite is call ASM32
>- the compiler sounds like MPLAB C32.

Any idea of pricing?  buy.microchip.com shows the starter kit (~$50) and compiler (~$1200) but no devices yet.

They are going to have to be pretty cheap to compete with the NXP ARM devices.

Regards

Mike

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2007\11\05@105848 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
Enter PIC32MX in the search box and you'll get a page
full of links...

Jan-Erik.

WH Tan wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\11\05@105932 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Mon, 2007-11-05 at 23:14 +0800, WH Tan wrote:
> Among those documents released, this kit seems to be the first demo for PIC32:
>
> ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/PIC32_UsersGuide.pdf
>
>
> At a glance:
>
> - is a 3.3V device
>
> - look like no ICD2, Real ICE support - using onbaord debugger which
> consists of a PIC18F4550.

Actually, under "I want to know which Microchip tools support PIC32
microcontrollers" they list:

ICD2 Debugger - PIC32 Support - Yes

Now, they don't make it 100% clear whether this means just programming
support, or if this means debugging too.

They say the debugging interface is 2 wire, that sounds ICD2 to me.

Very interesting, wondering if porting linux to it will be possible! :)

TTYL

2007\11\05@110604 by WH Tan

picon face
2007/11/5, Alan B. Pearce wrote:
> >- the ASM tool suite is call ASM32
> >
> >- the compiler sounds like MPLAB C32.
>
> So the rumours are coming true ???
> -

2007\11\05@111723 by WH Tan

picon face
2007/11/5, I wrote:

> At a glance:
>
> - is a 3.3V device
>
> - look like no ICD2, Real ICE support - using onbaord debugger which
> consists of a PIC18F4550.
>
> - the ASM tool suite is call ASM32
>
> - the compiler sounds like MPLAB C32.

The starter kit seems to be not having the ICD2/ICE interface...  but
after I read more, I think ICD2 and Real ICE can be used as debugger
for PIC32MX.  If you have Explorer 16 demo board, you can even get a
PIM (~25USD), then the board has transformed into Explorer 32 :)

Anyway the price for the starter kit seems to be very attractive.


--
WH Tan

2007\11\05@111849 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Among those documents released, this kit seems to be the first demo for
>PIC32:

And among the items released is MPLAB v8 to support it. The C compiler
student edition will not stop optimizing, but will always limit code size to
64KB, which is larger than the smallest device, but only a 1/4 of the
smallest with DMA.

It will also use ICD-2 if you are not using the demo board, so it would
appear the 18F4550 on the demo board looks like an ICD-2. You can get a
board to go with an Explorer 16 development board, and use an ICD-2 with
that.

See
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2603

Also they have code available for a number of TCP/IP uses, and for FAT16
file system.

Multi vector interrupts.
Up to 4 channels of DMA

Claims to be pin and peripheral compatible across families.

They have a number of peripheral library examples available, in both
assembler and C AFAICT.

Not sure if the 'Industry Support' page is supposed to have links to tools,
but it seems to have a number of broken picture links, and sweet all in the
way of page links.

Hmm, looks like it could be a pretty nice chip for doing top end things.

2007\11\05@123603 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Any idea of pricing?  buy.microchip.com shows the starter kit
>(~$50) and compiler (~$1200) but no devices yet.

Well, they don't have data sheets yet, just a family overview. The starter
kit won't be available in the UK until Nov 15 (one of my colleagues looked
at the Microchip Buy site here).

2007\11\05@130753 by Brendan Gillatt

flavicon
face
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

WH Tan wrote:
> Wow! Just noticed that some preliminary data sheet have been release
> today!  Check "what's new" page. ;-)
>
>
> Best regards,
>

Apparently this thing is a MIPS core in disguise. See
www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2007/11/05/42547/microchip-choses-mips-for-first-32-bit-mcus.htm
for a nice overview.

- --
Brendan Gillatt
brendan {at} brendangillatt {dot} co {dot} uk
http://www.brendangillatt.co.uk
PGP Key: pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xBACD7433
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2007\11\05@132244 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


>-----Original Message-----
>From: piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu]
>On Behalf Of Alan B. Pearce
>Sent: 05 November 2007 17:24
>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>Subject: Re: [PIC]: PIC32MX
>
>
>>Any idea of pricing?  buy.microchip.com shows the starter kit
>>(~$50) and compiler (~$1200) but no devices yet.
>
>Well, they don't have data sheets yet, just a family overview.
>The starter
>kit won't be available in the UK until Nov 15 (one of my
>colleagues looked
>at the Microchip Buy site here).

I looked at the UK site as well...just thought I'd put the price in $'s to gain a wider audience!

Mike

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2007\11\05@153738 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
Wow, a totoally new 32 bit architecture...

I will wait till I see the first errata sheet!

First impression: poor on peripherals (only one UART, compare a to
standard LPC capture/pwm peripheral). But, as far as I can see, no
dual-voltage needed 9as do the LPC's).

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\11\05@164757 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
Could you guys all stop checking PIC32 news?

Buy Microchip is slooooooow

:)

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\11\05@175049 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 11/6/07, Brendan Gillatt <EraseMEbrendanspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTbrendangillatt.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Apparently this thing is a MIPS core in disguise. See
> www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2007/11/05/42547/microchip-choses-mips-for-first-32-bit-mcus.htm
> for a nice overview.

I heard this some time ago but I do not expect it to be announced
so fast. But normally Microchip is slow to get their new parts
(PIC18 and dsPIC30) into the hands of customers. Let's see if
this time they will do better.

Xiaofan

2007\11\05@180942 by William \Chops\ Westfield
face picon face
>> Apparently this thing is a MIPS core in disguise.

See also here:

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202801390

I'm glad they didn't do their own core.  I think.  I might even be
glad they're doing something other than ARM.  Diversity, you know.

BillW

2007\11\05@181029 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 11/6/07, wouter van ooijen <wouterspamspam_OUTvoti.nl> wrote:
> Could you guys all stop checking PIC32 news?
>
> Buy Microchip is slooooooow
>
> :)

You are so fast. I will wait a while. Maybe I can borrow a
free one later. ;-)

I think this is much more interesting than PIC24. MIPS32
core is well supported by GCC and other free tools. Maybe
someone will get the souce code and build the free compiler
soon.

C32 Source code:
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en023073

Xiaofan

2007\11\05@183513 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 11/6/07, William Chops Westfield <@spam@westfwKILLspamspammac.com> wrote:
> >> Apparently this thing is a MIPS core in disguise.
>
> See also here:
>
> http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202801390

Nice. The pricing seems to be quite competitive compared to
Cortex M3. Not so sure when they will produce 40pin or even
28/18pin MCUs. They might since they are now low pin count PIC24.
In that case, the hobbyists can skip PIC24 and go to PIC32 directly.

> I'm glad they didn't do their own core.  I think.  I might even be
> glad they're doing something other than ARM.  Diversity, you know.
>

I agree with you. Hopefully there will be other MIPS based MCU
later. It seems to be targeting Cortex M3.
http://www.eetimes.com/news/design/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202800129

Atmel is now pushing more of it AVR32 UC core and not to use
Cortex M3 (but they continue to use ARM7 and ARM9).

Renesas sticks to their own 8/16/32bit MCU core since they are the
overall leader in MCU market. So does Freescale (with RS08/HCS08/
HCS12/ColdFire) which is leading in the automotive market.

Xiaofan

2007\11\05@184430 by Rolf

face picon face
wouter van ooijen wrote:
> Wow, a totoally new 32 bit architecture...
>
> I will wait till I see the first errata sheet!
>
> First impression: poor on peripherals (only one UART, compare a to
> standard LPC capture/pwm peripheral). But, as far as I can see, no
> dual-voltage needed 9as do the LPC's).
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>
> -- -------------------------------------------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu
>  
>  
>
>  
You don't have to wait for the first errata, it's out already!

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/PIC32MX_Errata_80350A.pdf

Rolf

2007\11\06@014922 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face
>wouter van ooijen wrote:
>> Wow, a totoally new 32 bit architecture...
>>
>> I will wait till I see the first errata sheet!

>{Original Message removed}

2007\11\06@031834 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> No surprises that all the bugs are in the peripherals rather
> than the licenced core.  One of the reasons we moved any
> serious projects away from PICs was Mchips customer beta
> testing program.  The odd bug creeping in with so many device
> variants is inevitable, but it's pretty much every device,
> and numerous silicon revisions before they are actualy fixed.

One of the nice things (from the end user perspective) is that a lot of
peripherals can also be licensed.

Is Mirochip realy worse than other manufacturers in this aspect? Lately
there was a lot of complaining on the arm list about IIRC the LPC2888
(late, bugs, etc).

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\11\06@041714 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Wow, a totoally new 32 bit architecture...
>
>I will wait till I see the first errata sheet!

Well, the errata sheet for B2 silicon is out ...

2007\11\06@055244 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 11/6/07, Michael Rigby-Jones <KILLspamMichael.Rigby-JonesKILLspamspambookham.com> wrote:
> No surprises that all the bugs are in the peripherals rather than
> the licenced core.  One of the reasons we moved any serious
> projects away from PICs was Mchips customer beta testing program.
> The odd bug creeping in with so many device variants is inevitable, but
> it's pretty much every device, and numerous silicon revisions before
> they are actualy fixed.

Which companies are better then?

Xiaofan

2007\11\06@060550 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


{Quote hidden}

We've used a lot of Silicon Labs parts (very high speed 8051 parts) and they have had almost no errata.

Mike

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2007\11\06@062848 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 11/6/07, Michael Rigby-Jones <RemoveMEMichael.Rigby-JonesspamTakeThisOuTbookham.com> wrote:

> We've used a lot of Silicon Labs parts (very high speed 8051 parts)
> and they have had almost no errata.
>

I see. Their parts are nice and they have very small parts and very
high performance (best in class integrated 16bit ADC). Not so sure
about the errata since I do not see any errata in their CD. However
the datasheets have all gone through several revisions.

Still the parts are not cheap and the delivery may have some issues.
Not so sure the situation now. In my previous job, we moved
some design from PIC to Silabs parts because of ADC speed
and size issues for PIC12F/16F.

By the way, they have a good USB forum section and I learned
quite something there from Professor Tsuneo.
http://www.cygnal.org/scripts/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=9&SUBMIT=Go

Xiaofan

2007\11\06@083612 by Morgan Olsson

flavicon
face

> and they have had almost no errata

When there is NO official errata it always scare me.

I have had stupid system problems because of simple SPI state errors in converters from both Linear Tech and Maxim, neither had any errata.  MAxim told me after two nonth they have some undocumented test state tha ti happened to trigger, and Linear tech later came out with a new fixed revision though they said there was no problem in the first.

Also Microchip does this: early PIC14000 had a A/D clock select swithc that was broken never expressed ina an errata, na dnow we bumped inte PIC18FxxJ borking the stack sometimes if an asynchronous hight priority interrupt happens the cycle after a low pri trigged (not expressed in any errata)

I have also been workign wiht PLC systems bumping inte bugs.
And compilers of course.
Even th elatest QuickBasic bit me bad once jumping bad in some circumstances.

I like the way ST once sent me a written letter explaining the nes ST6 was delayed (i had been on an seminar but not ordered anyting).

But some years later i got a couple hundred mosfets from them, that did not stand the power ( I had recieved several hundreds before that worked, but suddenly a batch was bad)
 And in that case also the dealer (Farnell) seem not to have gone out to withdras the rest of the batch, resulting in many thousands products failing prematurely in the market.

I have no problem that things are not perfectly made.
The really bad screw-ups happen in next steps WHENEVER MANUFACTURERS DO NOT TELL ABOUT ANY PROBLEMS.

So for a while we buy no more power semiconductors from ST, buy from Farnell when only really needed, try to avoid Maxim (at least al their digital stuff), etc.


We aso had the failing capacitor thread here recently...



There really is great need for a independant organisation to keep track of things in electronics, and we would have things working much more reliable.
Then companies could compete much more fair, and not by hiding problams and making nice-looking presentations of their dreams...

--
Morgan Olsson

2007\11\06@151149 by Peter P.

picon face
I just noticed that the plain MIPS core hasn't got anything resembling calls or
a stack ... which is good as far as I am concerned. I wonder how far the
Microchip design departs from this (and what assymetries it introduces). Finally
Linux will be ported (some day) to a Microchip core!

Peter P.


2007\11\06@153724 by Mark Rages

face picon face
On Nov 6, 2007 7:32 AM, Morgan Olsson <ost011EraseMEspam.....osterlen.tv> wrote:
>
> > and they have had almost no errata
>
> When there is NO official errata it always scare me.
>

Even Microchip will change parts without changing the name:

http://www.flylogic.net/blog/?p=9
http://www.flylogic.net/blog/?p=12

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail

--
Mark Rages, Engineer
Midwest Telecine LLC
EraseMEmarkragesspammidwesttelecine.com

2007\11\07@103845 by alan smith

picon face
Nope....everyone has em.  ADI just...whispered... that the new Blackfin 52x series has a major bug in silicon on the USB port...can't run uClinux on it unless a driver is spun just for this issue.  So they are figuring it out...and turning the silicon

wouter van ooijen <RemoveMEwouterEraseMEspamEraseMEvoti.nl> wrote:  > No surprises that all the bugs are in the peripherals rather
> than the licenced core. One of the reasons we moved any
> serious projects away from PICs was Mchips customer beta
> testing program. The odd bug creeping in with so many device
> variants is inevitable, but it's pretty much every device,
> and numerous silicon revisions before they are actualy fixed.

One of the nice things (from the end user persective) is that a lot of
peripherals can also be licensed.

Is Mirochip realy worse than other manufacturers in this aspect? Lately
there was a lot of complaining on the arm list about IIRC the LPC2888
(late, bugs, etc).

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\11\07@222505 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
Hey! That Flylogic is one very interesting site... In the past I have
been wondering if such a thing as physical uC hacking was possible,
and how one would go about it, and I guess that I now have all the
answers! Are any of them fellows, fellow piclisters?

Sean

On Nov 6, 2007 9:37 PM, Mark Rages <RemoveMEmarkragesspam_OUTspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\11\09@072756 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


>-----Original Message-----
>From: RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu [piclist-bouncesSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmit.edu]
>On Behalf Of alan smith
>Sent: 07 November 2007 15:39
>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>Subject: RE: [PIC]: PIC32MX
>
>
>Nope....everyone has em.  ADI just...whispered... that the new
>Blackfin 52x series has a major bug in silicon on the USB
>port...can't run uClinux on it unless a driver is spun just
>for this issue.  So they are figuring it out...and turning the silicon

I certainly expect there will be more bugs as devices get bigger, faster and more complex. They don't come much more simple than a PIC though ;-)

Mike

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