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'[PIC]: PIC16f628 Problems'
2002\08\24@154022 by Jai Dhar

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Hello all,

       Despite all the things I have tried in the last few months, I STILL have not got a successful program loaded into my 16f628. I am using TLVP with David Tait's FPP. I HAVE verified that the parport works by using FPP's debug function, and every pin works out as it should. I have rewired numerous times from scratch to ensure no errors. Initially, I had a longer parport cord (6'), but I made my own that was much shorter. I thought maybe this was the problem, but it works with the debug feature.. I verified each pin's voltage high and low with a DMM while switching them with FPP's debug feature. Even the read pin works fine, as it shows in the debug section. I have increased the cycle delays to mad numbers that are extremely high, and still nothing works. It just sais Read: 3FFF expected: 2828 (as 2828 was the first code to program). What is going on? I am getting desparate here for nothing has worked. I have even switched PIC's.

Jai

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2002\08\24@161559 by Brendan Moran

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>         Despite all the things I have tried in the last few months, I
> STILL have not got a successful program loaded into my 16f628. I am using
> TLVP with David Tait's FPP. I HAVE verified that the parport works by
> using FPP's debug function, and every pin works out as it should. I have
> rewired numerous times from scratch to ensure no errors. Initially, I had
> a longer parport cord (6'), but I made my own that was much shorter. I
> thought maybe this was the problem, but it works with the debug feature..
> I verified each pin's voltage high and low with a DMM while switching
> them with FPP's debug feature. Even the read pin works fine, as it shows
> in the debug section. I have increased the cycle delays to mad numbers
> that are extremely high, and still nothing works. It just sais Read: 3FFF
> expected: 2828 (as 2828 was the first code to program). What is going on?
> I am getting desparate here for nothing has worked. I have even switched PIC's.

Try putting some capacitors (small ones, say 100 nF) on the inputs to the
IC that you're using to interface to the PIC.

--Brendan

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2002\08\24@164641 by Byron A Jeff

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On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 07:56:34AM -0400, Jai Dhar wrote:
> Hello all,
>
>Despite all the things I have tried in the last few months, I STILL
>have not got a successful program loaded into my 16f628.

Oh dear!

> I am using TLVP with
>David Tait's FPP. I HAVE verified that the parport works by using FPP's debug
>function, and every pin works out as it should. I have rewired numerous times
>from scratch to ensure no errors.

If you've verified pin operation at the socket and it's right, then no amount
of rewiring will matter.

> Initially, I had a longer parport cord
>(6'), but I made my own that was much shorter.

Good.

> I thought maybe this was the
>problem, but it works with the debug feature.. I verified each pin's voltage
>high

What voltage? It needs to be between 4 and 5 volts.

> and low

Same here. It needs to be between 0 and 1 volts.

> with a DMM while switching them with FPP's debug feature. Even
>the read pin works fine, as it shows in the debug section.

That's good.

> I have increased
>the cycle delays to mad numbers that are extremely high, and still nothing
>works.

Cycle delays won't help if the problem is elsewhere.

> It just sais Read: 3FFF expected: 2828 (as 2828 was the first code to
>program). What is going on? I am getting desparate here for nothing has
>worked. I have even switched PIC's.

Jai,

It's not supposed to be this hard. I'm so sorry that you are having all these
troubles. Maybe we can setup a chat somewhere so that you and I can go over
this together.

I'm going with the only one presumption:

* That you are using a parallel cable of 2 feet or less.

Let's go through it one more time:

* Are you sure that the PIC has 5V power? And it's grounded?
* Are you using a 74HCT573? The HCT is critical for level conversion.
* Are you sure that the HCT573 has power and its control signals are wired
 correctly. Power needs to be 5V. BTW where are you getting that from?
* You have RB4 pin 10 wired as the PGM pin right? Not RB3.
* You verified each signal pin (RB7/DATA, RB6/CLK, RB4/PGM, MCLR) to make sure
 that they toggle between 0-1V for low and 4-5V for high?
* You double checked the polarity of each of the control signals?
* You double checked that the READ IN pin follows the DATA OUT pin.
* You have the resistor in place between Q0 (pin 19) of the HCT573 and RB7/DATA
 of the PIC?
* Have you checked the voltage between Q4 (pin 15) of the HCT573 and pin 10
 of the parallel port to ensure that it's between 0-0.8V for low and above
 2.0V for high?

Note that the voltages are critical because if they are not above the required
thresholds, then you won't get the desired effect.

I think I'm going to start working on a TLVP debugging floppy/iso using
picprg2.3e. One thing I think that both FPP and picprg are missing is the
ability to sigle step through the programming process. Because then I would
suggest verifying each step during a live programming session so that you can
see using the DVM what's actually going on.

Don't rewire again. Changing for change's sake isn't going to help. Take one
more crack at configuring FPP while I try to get a simple floppy/iso image
together that can facilitate debugging the programmer.

We will get this thing working. We must!

Again I am deeply sorry at your frustration. I will do my best to help you get
it working.

BAJ

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2002\08\24@164654 by Byron A Jeff

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On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 12:46:57PM -0700, Brendan Moran wrote:
> >         Despite all the things I have tried in the last few months, I
> > STILL have not got a successful program loaded into my 16f628. I am using
> > TLVP with David Tait's FPP. I HAVE verified that the parport works by
> > using FPP's debug function, and every pin works out as it should. I have
> > rewired numerous times from scratch to ensure no errors. Initially, I had
> > a longer parport cord (6'), but I made my own that was much shorter. I
> > thought maybe this was the problem, but it works with the debug feature..
> > I verified each pin's voltage high and low with a DMM while switching
> > them with FPP's debug feature. Even the read pin works fine, as it shows
> > in the debug section. I have increased the cycle delays to mad numbers
> > that are extremely high, and still nothing works. It just sais Read: 3FFF
> > expected: 2828 (as 2828 was the first code to program). What is going on?
> > I am getting desparate here for nothing has worked. I have even switched PIC's.
>
> Try putting some capacitors (small ones, say 100 nF) on the inputs to the
> IC that you're using to interface to the PIC.

Decoupling caps? Probably a good idea. Or filter/antiringing caps from the
input lines to ground.

Any suggestions on a real simple termination scheme so that it'll work with
longer parallel cables?

Thanks for the suggestions Brenden.

BAJ

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2002\08\24@175937 by Peter Anderson

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The issue of programming the PIC16F628 used to come up
in the context of the WARP-13.  The problem was solved
with RedBack 9 and later firmware.

For some reason, the LVP term (term 9) on the PIC must
be grounded.

Peter H Anderson, EraseMEphaspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTphanderson.com,
http://www.phanderson.com

--- Jai Dhar <jdharspamspam_OUTENGMAIL.UWATERLOO.CA> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
>         Despite all the things I have tried in the
> last few months, I STILL have not got a successful
> program loaded into my 16f628. I am using TLVP with
> David Tait's FPP. I HAVE verified that the parport


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2002\08\24@175958 by Brendan Moran

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>Any suggestions on a real simple termination scheme so that it'll work with
>longer parallel cables?

The best I can think of is decoupling caps.  But, my knowledge of
datacommunications electronics isn't great.

--Brendan

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2002\08\24@180224 by Jai Dhar

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Wow,

I must thank you for your support, it's refreshing to know that people actually are willing to help out there. Means a lot to me.
Anyway, from what I recall, the High voltage registered as 5.2V on my DMM. I am going to verify this now. I will meticulously go through all the checks you mentioned, and will let you know how it works out. I am using a computer PSU since I fried my old one (as I explained on the piclist a while ago :-) But anyway, I will let you know of the results once I go through it shortly. If worst comes to worst, I will try the decoupling caps.

Jai

On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 04:24:31PM -0400, Byron A Jeff wrote:
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2002\08\24@194943 by Byron A Jeff

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On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 02:18:35PM -0700, Peter Anderson wrote:
> The issue of programming the PIC16F628 used to come up
> in the context of the WARP-13.  The problem was solved
> with RedBack 9 and later firmware.
>
> For some reason, the LVP term (term 9) on the PIC must
> be grounded.

Right. It's a bug. But the TLVP is a low voltage programmer. so the LVP pin
(and it's pin 10 RB4, not pin 9 for the 16F628) is tied to (and controlled
by) the programmer.

But thanks for reminding me of that fact. I have an experimental high voltage
design and I don't think I have that ground shown.

BAJ
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2002\08\24@194956 by Byron A Jeff

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On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 10:16:32AM -0400, Jai Dhar wrote:
> Wow,
>
> I must thank you for your support, it's refreshing to know that people
> actually are willing to help out there. Means a lot to me.

You are of course welcome. This programmer is designed to get new users in the
game fast and cheap. 30 minutes to wire, 10 minutes to test. Programming in
less than an hour. But you've been at this for weeks. I just feel really bad
about it.

> Anyway, from what I recall, the High voltage registered as 5.2V on my DMM.
> I am going to verify this now. I will meticulously go through all the
> checks you mentioned, and will let you know how it works out. I am using a
> computer PSU since I fried my old one (as I explained on the piclist a while
> ago :-) But anyway, I will let you know of the results once I go through it
> shortly. If worst comes to worst, I will try the decoupling caps.

I have one more test if possible: test on another computer. It is possible that
something funky's going on with the parallel port. I had one user who told
me it worked on one port and not on another until they moved the DATA IN
to pin 11 (busy) instead of pin 10 (ack) on the parallel port.

Just hand in. We will find a way to get this to work.

Where are you located? If worst comes to worst I'll solder one up for you,
test it, and then ship it to you.

BAJ

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2002\08\24@195330 by Jai Dhar

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Ok, here are the results.


First, I tested just the parport with the PSU disconnected. I am using the Computer PSU as I mentioned. With it disconnected, each pin registered a high of about 4.4V and a low of 90 mV. Connecting the PSU, but having it off resulting in wierd readings (a high would be 2.2V for example).. but I considered this insignificant since I would be only operating with the PSU on. With it on, I achieved the same results on the parport pins 2 through 5 - High = 4.4V and low = 90 mV.
Now, the voltage directly across the PSU's pins was 5.2V. +Vcc on the HCT (and yes, it is a 74HCT573 exactly) was 5.2V, along with +Vdd on the Pic. Also, pin 11 on the HCT was +5.2V (LE). GND on both the HCT and PIC were 0mV, and same with Pin 1 on the HCT (OE). Now, I tried the voltages at the PIC pins (first I tried with just the parport remember). I did this with the PIC removedl. For each pin (RB6/7, MCLR and PGM), a high was 5.2V and a low anywhere from 0.2 - 1.6 mV. The Q4/Pin 10 on the parport test showed a 5.2V high and a 32 mV reading. And the READ pin did follow RB7 correctly when using Debug.

I am using RB4, not RB3 as I am supposed to. So out of all of this, it seems the potential problem is the high of 5.2V instead of 5 as you suggested. Maybe this isn't a problem, but this is hte only thing I can see. I also switched PICs, again, and still didnt work. I think that ISO idea would be a great thing (not only for me), since it would enable live testing. I am so stumped. You should develop some FreeBSD code :-) I have only used their ppi interface so far... pretty easy.

Anyway, maybe all my testing might tip you off. Let me know.

Oh, btw, I am using a pot for the 1k resistor since I dont have a 1k on hand... and making a combo out of others is too annoying at this point. I have verified 1k on the pot though.

Thank you,

Jai
On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 04:24:31PM -0400, Byron A Jeff wrote:
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2002\08\24@200310 by Olin Lathrop

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> ... But the TLVP is a low voltage programmer.

Could the original poster have a code protected chip?

Frankly, low voltage programmers are evil and should be banned to beginners.


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2002\08\24@201544 by Byron A Jeff

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On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 08:02:31PM -0400, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> > ... But the TLVP is a low voltage programmer.
>
> Could the original poster have a code protected chip?

So? Code protection can be set and reset in LVP mode. Bulk erase is available
down to a Vcc of 4.5 volts. The Vcc in the TLVP programmer is the standard 5V.
Only the mechanism for indicating programming mode has changed.

The only bit that cannot be changed in low voltage mode (from 4.5-5.5V)is the
LVP bit. Makes sense don'tcha think?

>
> Frankly, low voltage programmers are evil and should be banned to beginners.

They are certainly not evil. They present tradeoffs in terms of simplicity
(i.e. not having multiple switched voltages for the programmer) vs. consumed
resources (the dedicated I/O pin for PGM.) vs. a small bit of extra complexity
(i.e. remembering to ground the PGM pin in circuit.)

BAJ

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2002\08\24@204738 by Byron A Jeff

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On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 12:16:17PM -0400, Jai Dhar wrote:
> Ok, here are the results.
>
>
>First, I tested just the parport with the PSU disconnected. I am using the
>Computer PSU as I mentioned. With it disconnected, each pin registered a high
>of about 4.4V and a low of 90 mV. Connecting the PSU, but having it off
>resulting in wierd readings (a high would be 2.2V for example).. but I
>considered this insignificant since I would be only operating with the PSU
>on. With it on, I achieved the same results on the parport pins 2 through 5 -
>High = 4.4V and low = 90 mV.

OK. That sounds fine.

>
>Now, the voltage directly across the PSU's pins was 5.2V. +Vcc on the HCT
>(and yes, it is a 74HCT573 exactly) was 5.2V, along with +Vdd on the Pic.

Good. 5.2V is no problem for either the PIC or the HCT573.

>Also, pin 11 on the HCT was +5.2V (LE). GND on both the HCT and PIC were 0mV,
>and same with Pin 1 on the HCT (OE).

That takes care of the control signals.

>Now, I tried the voltages at the PIC
>pins (first I tried with just the parport remember). I did this with the PIC
>removedl.

As you should! ;-)

> For each pin (RB6/7, MCLR and PGM), a high was 5.2V and a low
>anywhere from 0.2 - 1.6 mV.

I presume that the pins matched up to the settings on the Debug page right?
Also are you absolutely sure that each of those pins are showing positive
polarity? I believe that David has the TLVP setting correct, but it's always
worth double checking.

> The Q4/Pin 10 on the parport test showed a 5.2V
>high and a 32 mV reading. And the READ pin did follow RB7 correctly when
>using Debug.

Cool.

And I presume that it still didn't work when you attempted to program. Right?

>I am using RB4, not RB3 as I am supposed to. So out of all of this, it
>seems the potential problem is the high of 5.2V instead of 5 as you
>suggested.

It isn't a problem.

> Maybe this isn't a problem, but this is hte only thing I can see.

It isn't a problem.

>I also switched PICs, again, and still didnt work.

The next step is threefold:

1) Switch machines and test on a new parallel port if possible.
2) Switch parallel port 10 to parallel port 11 and change the corrsponding
  config for DATA IN on FPP.
3) Take the RB7/DATA socket and try successively grounding and tying to VCC
  with a jumper. Try reading with FPP with no PIC in the socket. Verify that
  a full read of the program memory generates all 0's and all 1's
  respectively.
4) Next put the PIC back in, clear the FPP ram, then read the PIC.

One thing you'll want to do to help yourself is to stop trying to program
the part. A lot of info can be gathered simply by reading it. You can detect
if everything is working simply be reading the chip in:

* If the part is working then valid memory addresses will read as 0x3FFF.
 If not then they'll read as 0xFFFF.
* If the part is working then address 0x2006 and 0x2007 will have the values
 of the device ID and the config fuses. The ID locate will start with 0x072X.

One last thought. If somehow these parts have been programmed before and
LVP is disabled, then the LVP programmer will never work because it'll never
go into programming mode. At this point we may need to start thinking about
this as a possibility. We can move to the next stage and add HVP capability
removing all doubt. It'll require one NPN transistor and another resistor
along with a 12V power source, which you already have.

Another possibility is the fact that an unloaded PC power supply may have
difficulties maintaining regulation at light loads. Many articles suggest
driving the 5V line with some load (lamp, resistor, etc) to guarantee
regulation.

>I think that ISO idea
>would be a great thing (not only for me), since it would enable live testing.

I'll work on it. Do you have a CD Burner?

>I am so stumped.

As am I.

> You should develop some FreeBSD code :-) I have only used
>their ppi interface so far... pretty easy.

I'm a Linux guy but the principles are the same.

Except for the low level I/O interface which is pretty well encapsulated I
can't see any reason why picprg2.3 wouldn't run under FreeBSD as it's a console
app with an ncurses interface.

Another reason why picprg2.3[cde] is useful is that I added auto chip detection
to the front end. So if a 16F628, 16F877, or 16F84 is installed in the socket
and everything is wired correctly, it'll autodetect and you'll have a pretty
good idea that everything is working before you even attempt to download some
code to it.

>
>
> Anyway, maybe all my testing might tip you off. Let me know.

My blood is boiling at this point. No tip at all. Did you ground OSC1? It's
pin 16 on the PIC socket.

>
> Oh, btw, I am using a pot for the 1k resistor since I dont have a 1k on
>hand... and making a combo out of others is too annoying at this point. I
>have verified 1k on the pot though.  >

That's on one end and the middle wiper right?

BAJ

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2002\08\24@212013 by Jai Dhar

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Hello

       So, first things, yes, I have a burner, so if you were to come up with an iso (which would be awesome), then it would be no prob.

Now as for your suggestions. I can't do it on my other box because that is pure FreeBSD as opposed to dual boot. Due to FreeBSD's wonderful non-resizable slices, I can't create room for a Win installation (which I would have otherwise)... so thats out of the question, or for use as a last resort. Switching to pin 11... since I made the cord myself, I will have to painstakingly test each wire for which one is pin 11, but I will try this :-)

As for trying the read with no PIC in... would using a pull-up resistor tied to a push button work for this? I dont have the means necessary to do the jumper thing, but I could try a read and press the button randomly. I think this would accomplish something similar.

With relation to everything else you mentioned, I verified while testing, and was as it should be. I am thinking the parport has a decent chance of being slightly messed up (since Iv done a lot of devel., and guaranteed have done something wrong along the way with the parport).. which is why I wish I could try it on the other computer. Hmm.. maybe I will pop out this HD and put it in the other. I dont think XP would like a K6 200 ;-) I think the other computer is out for now.

So I will try pin 11 in the meantime. I hope I dont have to resort to HVP since I liked the idea of a LVP in the first place :-)

THank you,

Jai
On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 08:47:06PM -0400, Byron A Jeff wrote:
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2002\08\24@220242 by Byron A Jeff

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On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 01:45:28PM -0400, Jai Dhar wrote:
> Hello
>
>         So, first things, yes, I have a burner, so if you were to come up with an iso (which would be awesome), then it would be no prob.
>

> Now as for your suggestions. I can't do it on my other box because that is
> pure FreeBSD as opposed to dual boot.

You have FreeBSD? COOL! How would you like to join my newly formed picprg2.3
FreeBSD testing program? ;-)

> Due to FreeBSD's wonderful
> non-resizable slices, I can't create room for a Win installation (which I
> would have otherwise)...

No. picprg2.3 is designed to program PICs under Unix variants. It'll give you
a whole new set of variables to test under.

> so thats out of the question, or for use as a last resort.

No problem. Offer's open though.

> Switching to pin 11... since I made the cord myself, I will have to
> painstakingly test each wire for which one is pin 11, but I will try this :-)

Cool.

>

> As for trying the read with no PIC in... would using a pull-up resistor
>tied to a push button work for this?

Sure. Just make sure that it's low valued enough that it can pull the input
D4 on the HCT573 below 0.8V. 150 ohms should do the trick.

> I dont have the means necessary to do
>the jumper thing, but I could try a read and press the button randomly. I
>think this would accomplish something similar.  >

The jumper is simply a wire inserted between D7 and GND/+5.

> With relation to everything else you mentioned, I verified while testing,
>and was as it should be. I am thinking the parport has a decent chance of
>being slightly messed up (since Iv done a lot of devel., and guaranteed have
>done something wrong along the way with the parport).. which is why I wish I
>could try it on the other computer. Hmm.. maybe I will pop out this HD and
>put it in the other. I dont think XP would like a K6 200 ;-)

No. Bad idea.

> I think the other computer is out for now.

It isn't for picprg2.3. Let me take a virtual minute and see how port I/O is
done under FreeBSD... Done. I see what you're talking about with ppi. It
should only take a hour or so to convert it. May be worth the effort.

> So I will try pin 11 in the meantime. I hope I dont have to resort to HVP
> since I liked the idea of a LVP in the first place :-) >

As do I. But with so many problems, and the lack of solutions, it's a route
that we may have to embark on.


> THank you,

Thank me when it works. Keep plugging.

BAJ
>
> Jai
> On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 08:47:06PM -0400, Byron A Jeff wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 12:16:17PM -0400, Jai Dhar wrote:
> > > Ok, here are the results. [deleted for brevity]

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2002\08\24@222200 by Jai Dhar

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Quoting Byron A Jeff <TakeThisOuTbyronKILLspamspamspamCC.GATECH.EDU>:

> On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 01:45:28PM -0400, Jai Dhar wrote:
> > Hello
> >
> >         So, first things, yes, I have a burner, so if you were to come up
> with an iso (which would be awesome), then it would be no prob.
> >
>
> > Now as for your suggestions. I can't do it on my other box because that
> is
> > pure FreeBSD as opposed to dual boot.
>
> You have FreeBSD? COOL! How would you like to join my newly formed
> picprg2.3
> FreeBSD testing program? ;-)

I would love to test for you!! I will tell you what... as soon as get this
darn PIC working, I will test as much as you need me to, no problems.

{Quote hidden}

As am I working on this stupid PIC, I dont have an hour to convert code...
besides, I havent worked with anything BUT ppi, so I wouldnt know how to
convert code... if thats what you were talking about. Do you know how to work
fppdos.exe? Because I can just boot off a floppy on my other box and run it
from there.

So right now, what I am going to do is see if I Can get it working in dos with
the other box.. I dont know how fppdos.exe command line works tho. There is a
field for device and hardware, and I'm not sure what the convention is. The
wierd thing is, I just trie ddoing a read, and it came up all 3FFF's. I then
did an erase... and read agian, it was Blank? And now... very few times it
reads 3FFF's, but most of the time, its just Blank. I have no clue what that
means, you probably would have a better idea. I am going to just try and do a
read with no PIC, taking a jumper wire between +5 and GND, see what that does.


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2002\08\24@230143 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 10:20:01PM -0400, Jai Dhar wrote:
> Quoting Byron A Jeff <spamBeGonebyron@spam@spamspam_OUTCC.GATECH.EDU>:
>
> > On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 01:45:28PM -0400, Jai Dhar wrote:
> > You have FreeBSD? COOL! How would you like to join my newly formed
> > picprg2.3
> > FreeBSD testing program? ;-)
>
> I would love to test for you!! I will tell you what... as soon as get this
> darn PIC working, I will test as much as you need me to, no problems.

I will take you up on that.

{Quote hidden}

No. Actually I was talking about me converting the code. It would be easier
if I could get a FreeBSD account for a bit just for compile and test
purposes. Anyone know if there's a CD bootable FreeBSD package?

> Do you know how to work
> fppdos.exe? Because I can just boot off a floppy on my other box and run it
> from there.

That's an idea. as for fppdos.exe. Not a clue. And it looks like David Tait's
forum site is closing up shop. So I'm not sure the best way to use it.

>
> So right now, what I am going to do is see if I Can get it working in dos with
> the other box.. I dont know how fppdos.exe command line works tho. There is a
> field for device and hardware, and I'm not sure what the convention is. The
> wierd thing is, I just trie ddoing a read, and it came up all 3FFF's. I then
> did an erase... and read agian, it was Blank? And now... very few times it
> reads 3FFF's, but most of the time, its just Blank. I have no clue what that
> means, you probably would have a better idea. I am going to just try and do a
> read with no PIC, taking a jumper wire between +5 and GND, see what that does.

Let me know.

BAJ

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2002\08\26@050229 by Mr David J Tait

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picon face
Byron A Jeff said:
> And it looks like David Tait's forum site is closing up shop.

Why do you say that?  The last message I posted to the forum was on
August 18.  I have steady stream of PIC related email plus the stuff
on the forum to deal with.  I try to address it all in a timely manner
but sometimes that's not as quickly as my correspondents desire.
Sorry.

David

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2002\08\26@051241 by Sean Alcorn (SYD)

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David,

> Why do you say that?  The last message I posted to the forum was on
> August 18.  I have steady stream of PIC related email plus the stuff
> on the forum to deal with.  I try to address it all in a timely manner
> but sometimes that's not as quickly as my correspondents desire.

The rumours of your death greatly exaggerated? :-)

Sean

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2002\08\26@073054 by Byron A Jeff

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On Sun, Aug 25, 2002 at 10:12:28PM +0100, Mr David J Tait wrote:
> Byron A Jeff said:
> > And it looks like David Tait's forum site is closing up shop.
>
> Why do you say that?

Um. Because I popped over there and got a message that the Beseen service
would be shutting down as of today, August 26th.

>  The last message I posted to the forum was on
> August 18.  I have steady stream of PIC related email plus the stuff
> on the forum to deal with.  I try to address it all in a timely manner
> but sometimes that's not as quickly as my correspondents desire.
> Sorry.

No need to apologize. It's absolutely no reflection upon you personally. You
have been nothing but an absolute professional in every sense of the word.
You've been my tag team partner in getting the TLVP available for Windows
from the vrey beginning, and I deeply appreciate it.

Now I've actually suceeded in confusing myself. For the last couple of days
I've been working on my first Gentoo Linux installation and it's been a work in
progress. I had installed a couple of text browsers to work from in the
meantime and when I answered Jai's question I used one to access your FPP
page. In revewing my actions just now I realize that you actually have 2
Beseen links on your page: The main Beseen page and a link directly to your
forum. I see now that I selected the main page which still has the same
message:

------------------------------------------------------
SERVICE NOTICE:

Due to the high cost of offering this free service, we regret that we will
shortly be shutting down BeSeen.com and BeSeen services on August 26th,
2002.  -- The BeSeen Team

For tools to build, enhance and promote your site, we would suggest that you
search for similar utilities and services using LookSmart:
------------------------------------------------------

I posted here erroneously thinking that I had in fact selected the forum.

But this is definitely not good because that means that the Beseen forum
holders have not be clued into the fact that the service is supposed to
be shutting down today. I only found it be happenstance.

I certainly hope that you can get that situation resolved. If it turns out
that Beseen is ceasing operations today, I certainly welcome you to utilize
the TLVP forum that I've been running. It does have a reply quirk that I find
a bit annoying, but it has been an effective and available resource.

Hope this helps, And good luck.

BAJ

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2002\08\26@111006 by Jai Dhar

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face
Well,

       Glad to see you are alive David :-) I posted a question on your forum, but still haven't had a reply, so I was hoping someone here could answer. Does anyone know how to use Fpp's command line switches? Mainly the device and hardware tag? I am hoping to use fppdos on another box by booting with a floppy to eliminate the possibility of my parport being aproblem, but do not know how to use the command line switches since I can't find documentation. Thank you,

Jai

On Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 07:30:23AM -0400, Byron A Jeff wrote:
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2002\08\27@154716 by Mr David J Tait

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Byron,

Thanks for the information and the offer.  I'm afraid I
didn't realise that the Beseen message board service was
closing down.  It was still there when I sent my previous
message in this thread.  Unfortunately, the baord has gone
now.  A bit of a shame really as I don't have a copy of any
of my postings.  Sigh ...

Jai,

Sorry to hear about your problems.  The most likely cause
is that the PIC is not going into programming mode.  It's
one thing knowing the problem, it's quite another to work
out a solution.  I'm sure Byron has taken you through all
the most likely cures.  You could try software other than
FPP.  Both Bonny Gijzen's IC-PROG and Nigel Goodwin's
WinPicProg should work.  Indeed, I think there are some
messages about using these programs with the TLVP hardware
on Byron's message board.  If you really want to try the
DOS version of FPP here's how to get it to work with the
Byron's TLVP:

   fppdos -f628 -h10:1 file.hex

The -h switch sets the hardware and consists of two fields
separated by a ':', here 10 means TLVP and 1 means LPT1.
The -f switch is used to set the flash memory limits and
-f628 establishes the correct values for a 16F628.
Better still, write a batch file, called tlvp.bat say,
containing these two lines:

@echo off
fppdos -f628 -h10:1 %1 %2 %3 %4

then you can program your PIC using the command:

tlvp file.hex

This makes it easy to add other command line switches.  For
example:

tlvp -n file.hex

will program without trying to read the PIC as it goes; and

tlvp -q

will enter debug mode to check your hardware (hit enter to
to go on to the next test).

If you disable the GUI with the -w0 switch, FPP can also be
run from the command line in the same way as FPPDOS.  To try
this out just replace "fppdos" with "fpp -w0" in the
instructions given earlier.

There are a couple more PICLIST messages describing the command
line switches of FPP (and FPPDOS).  See the archive (user: piclist,
password: piclist) for the thread starting with Paul Gaastra's
message:

http://www.infosite.com/~jkeyzer/piclist/2002/May/0792.html

Hope that helps.

David

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2002\08\27@175553 by Charles Anderson

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On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 11:01:49PM -0400, Byron A Jeff wrote:
> No. Actually I was talking about me converting the code. It would be easier
> if I could get a FreeBSD account for a bit just for compile and test
> purposes. Anyone know if there's a CD bootable FreeBSD package?

You can get bootable iso's at
ftp.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/ISO-IMAGES
4.6.2 is the latest stable release.

If you don't have space on another machine to install freebsd works great
under vmware, but I'm not sure how good the parallel port support is.

-Charlie
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