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'[PIC]: PIC and Realtek 8019as Ethernet'
2002\10\28@210932 by Josh Koffman

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Hello all! I'm back. I'm sorry I haven't been around for the past couple
months, but between a move, a new hard drive, and an outrageous amount
of work, I haven't had enough time for the list. It was hard...but I
managed to nominally keep up with digests. Anyway, I hope everyone is
well!

And now, for one of the things I've been thinking about while away. I'm
looking at connecting a PIC to an Ethernet network. I'd like to use the
Realtek 8019as chip, for numerous reasons, the most important one being
that it is still widely available and well represented out in the field.
This is my first network type project, so I've been reading up on
TCP/IP. I've also ordered TCP/IP Lean, a book about embedded systems.
I'm not looking to do a full TCP implementation, I'll likely be
satisfied with UDP. I will likely have to write at least part, if not
the entire stack by myself. I would like to see some examples before I
start though considering this is my first project of this type.

So far, here is what I have come up with:
www.rof.net/yp/alphaone/activities/electronics/3c509b/
This is a really excellent site, and I do plan on building the device,
even though is uses the wrong chipset. I hope I will be able to learn
about the stack implementation.
http://www.eix.co.uk/Ethernet/
This site looked super promising. However, there is no source code
online, and the schematic is of too low a resolution to read. I tried
emailing the author, but no response. The site is based on an article,
so I tried emailing the publisher, but the account isn't valid. The
article was in the May and July 2001 issue of Electronics World. If
anyone has that magazine, I'd love a decent scan of the schematic.
members.vol.at/home.floery/electronix/picnic/
This site looks very promising, except the schematic is a very large
drawing, and I can't get it to print out on a smaller piece of paper so
I can study it for awhile. Quite annoying, but I will be digging deeper
at this site.
www.circuitcellar.com/chipcenter-pdfs/1101/c1101fe.pdf
I thought it looked good, but it's basically just an exercising of the
picdem.net board from Microchip

So, that's what I've found so far. Any others? I'm open to other
chipsets as well, I have much to learn, and the more examples I see, the
better. I haven't ordered the Picdem.net board from Microchip for
numerous reasons. Basically, I can't program in C, nor do I own a C
compiler, so the Microchip stack is basically useless for me. The only
advantage of that board is the inbuilt Ethernet interface. It is slick,
but at US$300, I'd rather kludge together a demo board with a PIC and an
ISA Ethernet card. Cheaper, and just as effective.

So, if you have any code, schematics, ideas, or comments, please let me
know, I'd love to hear them! If anyone else has any experience in this
area, I'm very interested in hearing about your trials and tribulations.

Good to be back :)

Josh

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2002\10\28@213544 by Randy Glenn

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Edward Cheung did just this

http://www.edcheung.com/awards/pic2k/pic2k.htm

You can get his schematic, but his code'll cost $35USD

-Randy Glenn
Comp. Eng. & Mgt. II, McMaster University
===================================================
| picxpert-at-cogeco.ca - glennrb-at-mcmaster.ca  |
| picxpert-at-yahoo.com - randy_glenn-at-ieee.org |
|     http://picxpert.dyndns.org/~picxpert/       |
===================================================

{Original Message removed}

2002\10\28@224648 by Bourdon, Bruce

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...(snip)...
"I'd like to use the Realtek 8019as chip,"
...
"I've also ordered TCP/IP Lean, a book about embedded systems."

Josh:
Just two quick points:

If it's not too late & you ordered the previous edition, the second edition
of that book has been released. I haven't read it (yet) but I do know that
it contains some discussion regarding using the PIC for this. If it is too
late, then search Microchips website as I think that same author had some
relevant info available there (possibly the text for the new PIC
chapter???).

And secondly, does that Realtek chip contain internal RAM that is available
to the external controller (PIC)? I know Realtek does make at least one
device that does so, and it'll be important for buffering your packets...

Please keep us posted, as there are several of us that are hoping to do
similar things in the future ... BTW I just moved too, but am in temporary
rental property & cannot do much until I can unpack several months from now
:(
Bruce.

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2002\10\29@004228 by Josh Koffman

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Good suggestion, I forgot to mention him in my email. Anyone actually
seen his code? Is it C or assembler?

Josh

Randy Glenn wrote:
>
> Edward Cheung did just this
>
> http://www.edcheung.com/awards/pic2k/pic2k.htm
>
> You can get his schematic, but his code'll cost $35USD

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2002\10\29@004249 by Josh Koffman

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Well, sadly, I believe it is too late. However, for $15 on eBay, I still
think I did ok. The author of the book is I believe the guy who wrote
the code (or at least helped) for the Microchip TCP/IP stack. Problem
is, it's all in C. I bought the book more for it's informational
purposes, rather than actual code snippets. I'm hoping it will discuss
TCP/IP on a byte level, and provide methods for dealing with things
within the constrains of a controller. If anyone has seen the newer
version, please let us know what's in there!

Josh
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fools.
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"Bourdon, Bruce" wrote:
> If it's not too late & you ordered the previous edition, the second edition
> of that book has been released. I haven't read it (yet) but I do know that
> it contains some discussion regarding using the PIC for this.

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2002\10\29@031320 by Florian Voelzke

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Also have a look at http://www.edtp.com/. You can get the C sources for
their "packet whacker", a RTL8019 featured NIC. (And there is the .lst
file, so you have assembler sources ;-) ) I don't know if it is a full
featured TCP/IP stack (I haven't really locked at the source), but it
seems promising.

Florian

Josh Koffman wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\10\29@031737 by Nate Duehr
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Well, it's not microcontroller specific at all, and not cheap, but the
ultimate TCP/IP book is TCP/IP Illustrated, by W. Richard Stevens.  If
you want a TCP/IP "ultimate reference manual".

ISBN: 0201633469

Probably not what you're looking for, but thought I'd mention it if you
really want to see the nitty-gritty of TCP/IP stacks.

There's also a newer book out about TCP/IP Implementation in the same
series, but I don't have that one.  TCP/IP Illustrated is pulled down
off the shelf as a reference regularly, though...

Nate

On Mon, 2002-10-28 at 23:56, Josh Koffman wrote:
> Well, sadly, I believe it is too late. However, for $15 on eBay, I still
> think I did ok. The author of the book is I believe the guy who wrote
> the code (or at least helped) for the Microchip TCP/IP stack. Problem
> is, it's all in C. I bought the book more for it's informational
> purposes, rather than actual code snippets. I'm hoping it will discuss
> TCP/IP on a byte level, and provide methods for dealing with things
> within the constrains of a controller. If anyone has seen the newer
> version, please let us know what's in there!

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2002\10\29@035915 by Jim Main

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The author of the book is Jeremy Bentham, whereas, the Mchip stack was
written by a staff member called Nilesh Rajbharti (although they are very
similar)

The iosoft stack which comes with the picdemnet board, runs on a 16F877,
whereas the Microchip stack runs on an 18F452.

A lot of the examples in the book (the first edition anyway) are in C.

Jim

{Original Message removed}

2002\10\29@051133 by johnc

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Yep that is the only book I use nowadays. Simply the best book for networking reference and
study. The implementation book is very good for concepts that has been implemented in the real world.
To follow the code you need C and system programming specifically in Unixs.

Nate Duehr wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\10\29@063743 by Russell McMahon

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> And now, for one of the things I've been thinking about while away. I'm
> looking at connecting a PIC to an Ethernet network. I'd like to use the
> Realtek 8019as chip, for numerous reasons, the most important one being
> that it is still widely available and well represented out in the field.

Don't know if this is included in whjat you have found so far

       uIP - A Free Small TCP/IP Implementation for
       8- and 16-bit Microcontrollers

               http://dunkels.com/adam/uip/




       RM

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2002\10\29@094338 by Josh Koffman

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Ok, my bad. I should have looked into it a bit further. However, the
source of my misconception was that the TCP/IP Lean book is included in
the purchase of the Picdem.net board.

Oops!

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
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Jim Main wrote:
> The author of the book is Jeremy Bentham, whereas, the Mchip stack was
> written by a staff member called Nilesh Rajbharti (although they are very
> similar)
>
> The iosoft stack which comes with the picdemnet board, runs on a 16F877,
> whereas the Microchip stack runs on an 18F452.

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2002\10\29@223644 by Josh Koffman

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Well, time for the daily update on my research. Thank you to all those
that have helped so far!

http://dunkels.com/adam/uip/
uIP - A Free Small TCP/IP Implementation for 8- and 16-bit
Microcontrollers. Interesting. There is even a guy who has ported this
to an 18C chip. However, code is all in C, and there seems to be no way
to contact the PIC guy.

http://www.edtp.com/
They make a small Ethernet module based on the RTL8019. Code is all in
C, so of little use to me, but having another schematic is useful. If
you look at it though, it doesn't have any of the transformers and the
like you see on regular Ethernet cards. Any thoughts on this? I'm fresh
out of ideas.

http://www.edcheung.com/awards/pic2k/pic2k.htm
This guy won a Circuit Cellar contest doing this. I emailed him, and his
code is all in C though. Maybe I should take this as a hint to learn C?

members.vol.at/home.floery/electronix/picnic/
I haven't had the chance to look at this site much since yesterday. I
still can't get the schematic to print on an 8.5x11" sheet of paper, and
still be inteligible. I could even do 11x17 if needed. If there is
someone who has Adobe Acrobat, and can read the schematic at
members.vol.at/home.floery/electronix/picnic/images/layout.png
and output a .pdf, I would really appreciate it. I just need something
that can intelligently scale a line drawing without trying to do funky
stuff with the characters.

Anyway, that's where I stand right now. Hopefully, I'll have more
tomorrow!

Thanks,

Josh
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completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
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2002\10\29@230655 by Dale Botkin

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On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Josh Koffman wrote:

> http://www.edtp.com/
> They make a small Ethernet module based on the RTL8019. Code is all in
> C, so of little use to me, but having another schematic is useful. If
> you look at it though, it doesn't have any of the transformers and the
> like you see on regular Ethernet cards. Any thoughts on this? I'm fresh
> out of ideas.

NetMedia sells an RJ45 jack with all the magnetics built in for $5.  Gets
my vote for sure.  I don't remember who actually manufactures them, but
it's not tough to find out I'm sure.

> http://www.edcheung.com/awards/pic2k/pic2k.htm
> This guy won a Circuit Cellar contest doing this. I emailed him, and his
> code is all in C though. Maybe I should take this as a hint to learn C?

If you're writing or hacking IP on a PIC (or about anything else) it's
probably a very good idea.  Anywhere you look at TCP/IP code it's more
than likely going to be C.  Yes, you *can* write it in asm if you're
dedicated to it, but you'll have to learn C to understand the source of
those who have gone before you anyway.  And it's NOT that hard to learn.

Dale

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2002\10\30@123859 by Peter L. Peres

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On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Josh Koffman wrote:

*>http://www.edtp.com/
*>They make a small Ethernet module based on the RTL8019. Code is all in
*>C, so of little use to me, but having another schematic is useful. If
*>you look at it though, it doesn't have any of the transformers and the
*>like you see on regular Ethernet cards. Any thoughts on this? I'm fresh
*>out of ideas.

Usually you can do ethernet w/o transformers if it does not need to drive
a lot of cards and if the circuit is already floating (because it has a
IP2 class mains transformer or such). It can also do this if it is not
floating, by relying on the other side's transformers. If both sides
decide to rely on the other side's transformers bad things will happen.

Peter

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2002\10\30@151432 by G.Smith

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On 29 Oct 2002, at 23:02, Josh Koffman wrote:

> members.vol.at/home.floery/electronix/picnic/
> I haven't had the chance to look at this site much since yesterday. I
> still can't get the schematic to print on an 8.5x11" sheet of paper, and
> still be inteligible.
I used IE to view the thing then "Saved as"  LAYOUT.BMP
Opened this file with Irfanview and printed fitted to A4 paper.
This looks ok.


George Smith

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2002\10\30@180217 by Jonathan Johnson

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you didn't get the pdf I sent you? I converted it for you then forwarded it
to you and the list, the list one bounced back for being too big but you
should've still got yours

> {Original Message removed}


'[PIC]: PIC and Realtek 8019as Ethernet'
2002\11\06@003245 by Silviu Ungureanu
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Hello Josh,

Oh, almost I forgot. You mention that you're not C skilled and prefer the assembler. With some minor changes you can adapt the source code (PIC 16C5X compatible) to the new PIC series. Take a look at: http://www.sxlist.com/techref/ubicom/lib/io/osi3/tcpip/isx_2_3_5.src but be aware of the request placed on the bottom of the page:
This server aggressively defends against automated copying for any reason including offline viewing, duplication, etc... Please respect this requirement and DO NOT RIP THIS SITE.

Be busy !

Regards,
Silviu

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