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'[PIC]: PIC Programmer Preferences - which should I'
2003\08\07@200949 by Richard Zinn

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I'm getting started in to a project where I will be using the PIC16C620A,
and the PIC16C505.  I unfortunately purchased the Microchip PICDEM2 Plus and
the MPLAB ICD 2, but after further investigation I've found that the PICDEM2
can't program either of those PICs.

So far my search has lead me to either the:
- David Tate Serial programmer (free, but requires assembly)
http://www.ic-prog.com/upplow.gif,
- or the WARP-13 ($108) http://www.dontronics.com/newfound.html

Any opinions? Or is there another better option I'm missing?

Thanks.
Richard Zinn


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2003\08\07@204228 by Randy Jones

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Hi Richard,

Are you really locked into those specific PICs for some reason?  There are
superior new PICs with the same footprint, Flash program memory, etc. at the
same or lower prices...

PIC16C620A vs. PIC16F627A - The F627A is in the same sub-family, but is a
much newer Flash part.  More of everything at essentially the same price.
(Maybe less, depending on the clock speed and temperature range you need --
since the base 16F627A includes 20 MHz and industrial temperature ratings.)

PIC16C505 vs. PIC16F630 - Again, The 16F630 is much better: Flash memory,
mid-range 14-bit core vs. old 12-bit core, EEPROM, and a similar or slightly
lower price.

I believe that both can be programmed by the ICD2, but don't have the
current list of supported devices in front of me at the moment.

Randy

http://www.glitchbuster.com


{Original Message removed}

2003\08\07@213424 by Adi Linden

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> So far my search has lead me to either the:
>  - David Tate Serial programmer (free, but requires assembly)
> http://www.ic-prog.com/upplow.gif,
>  - or the WARP-13 ($108) http://www.dontronics.com/newfound.html

I am building a Wisp628, see http://www.voti.nl/wisp628/index.html, for
what it's worth. Haven't used it yet...

Adi

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2003\08\08@012206 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> I am building a Wisp628, see
> http://www.voti.nl/wisp628/index.html, for
> what it's worth.
> Haven't used it yet...

That is of course a good programmer ;) but it won't help the OP unless
he switches to flash chips.

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\08\08@012214 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> Any opinions? Or is there another better option I'm missing?

Ditching those EPROM chips and using a flash chip(s)?

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\08\08@012834 by Keith L. Kovala

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New to PICs, so forgive the ignoarance.  EPROM chips and flash chips?  Ok,
this is a new one by me.  Is there an easy way to discern the difference
between the two?  And why do you prefer flash ones?

Keith L. Kovala
klkspamKILLspamksu.edu



{Original Message removed}

2003\08\08@013250 by Wouter van Ooijen
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> New to PICs, so forgive the ignoarance.

read http://www.voti.nl/swp
there is a start of a FAQ at http://www.voti.nl/picfaq

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\08\08@020427 by stesquib

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I've been using an EPIC for awhile. It has been working good for me. I've been
thinking about this one:
www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/prog/ck1710.htm.
USB is the way to go. I'm gettin tired of swapin serial and parallel devices.
Steve

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2003\08\08@020627 by Ishaan Dalal

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Both EPROM and flash can be programmed, erased, re-programmed...and so on.
The big difference is that EPROMs must be erased with UV light - a task
which can easily take 20-30 minutes, or even more. Flash, on the other hand,
can be electrically erased in microseconds, allowing for rapid application
development.

Cheers,
Ishaan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith L. Kovala" <klkspamspam_OUTKSU.EDU>
To: <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 01:28
Subject: Re: [PIC]: PIC Programmer Preferences - which should I get?


> New to PICs, so forgive the ignoarance.  EPROM chips and flash chips?  Ok,
> this is a new one by me.  Is there an easy way to discern the difference
> between the two?  And why do you prefer flash ones?
>
> Keith L. Kovala
> KILLspamklkKILLspamspamksu.edu
>
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2003\08\08@082537 by Olin Lathrop

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> New to PICs, so forgive the ignoarance.  EPROM chips and flash chips?
> Ok, this is a new one by me.  Is there an easy way to discern the
> difference between the two?  And why do you prefer flash ones?

This refers to how the program memory is implemented.  Older PICs were OTP
(one time programmable).  For prototyping, you had to get a special
version with a quartz window that allowed the program memory to be erased
with UV light.  These are sometimes referred to as the JW versions because
that was the package suffix in most cases.

All newer PICs have flash program memory.  That means it can be
electrically erased and re-written at least 1000 times over the PICs
lifetime.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

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2003\08\08@100544 by Adi Linden

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> That is of course a good programmer ;) but it won't help the OP unless
> he switches to flash chips.

The Wisp628 doesn't support Eprom chips? I programmed Eprom chips using
the ICSP method in the past...

Adi

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2003\08\08@104222 by Mike Hord

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Are you getting the drift?  Use FLASH if you can...

I personally use a WARP-13.  It's been great, except for one little blip
when I tried to ICSP a 16F819, and that's been resolved.

I've also heard good things about the WISP, and it's a bit cheaper IIRC.
My understanding is that it also places a higher priority on the ICSP, and
for the WARP-13, that's kind of a "bonus"- not *truly* what the header
was intended for.

Mike H.


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2003\08\08@105227 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> The Wisp628 doesn't support Eprom chips?

correct

> I programmed Eprom chips using
> the ICSP method in the past...

I won't deny that.

Wisp628 uses a diode-capacitor charge pump to generate Vpp. This
provides sufficinet current to get a flash chip into programming mode,
but much less current than required by EPROM programming. The EPROM
chips use Vppto power the programming, the flash chips use it to enable
programming (powered from the +5V).

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\08\08@105640 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> I personally use a WARP-13.
> I've also heard good things about the WISP

Make that Wisp628, there is also a WISP but that is an obsolete design.

To compare the two: the WARP-13 is ~ 3 times the price of a Wisp628 but
can be used with a ZIF socket (Wisp628 would at least require a separate
5 V power), and programs many more chips (EPROM PICs, and even
non-uChip). The Wisp628 is very much an open design: everything is
available for DIY.

Wouter van Ooijen

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