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'[PIC]: Overclocking'
2001\01\16@000359 by Jeethu Rao

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Hi there guys,

I am working on an implementation of the TEA Encryption algorithm for PIC. But, I read somewhere on the maximum speed possible on mid-range family PIC running @ 20 Mhz is just 6k/s.

Now, can I overclock a 16f877 or 16f84A to say about 50 Mhz ?

Will it just draw more power or will it have some more serious implications ?

I'll bet atleast someone might have tried this.

Jeethu Rao

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2001\01\16@002110 by Dmitry Kiryashov

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Why not Scenix ? ;)

WBR Dmitry.

Jeethu Rao wrote:
>
> Hi there guys,
>
> I am working on an implementation of the TEA Encryption algorithm for PIC. But, I read somewhere on the maximum speed possible on mid-range family PIC running @ 20 Mhz is just 6k/s.
>
> Now, can I overclock a 16f877 or 16f84A to say about 50 Mhz ?
>
> Will it just draw more power or will it have some more serious implications > I'll bet atleast someone might have tried this.
> Jeethu Rao

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2001\01\16@022146 by Vasile Surducan

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On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Jeethu Rao wrote:

>
> Now, can I overclock a 16f877 or 16f84A to say about 50 Mhz ?

 16f877/04 works ok at 24MHz with external clock.
I've try something at 36MHz but it don't work ( I have a LCD connected to
pic and maybe I've miss something...)
Vasile

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2001\01\16@103155 by Olin Lathrop

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> Now, can I overclock a 16f877 or 16f84A to say about 50 Mhz ?

Let's not go there AGAIN!



*****************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, .....olinKILLspamspam.....embedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2001\01\16@105313 by M. Adam Davis

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Please check the archives about overclocking (http://www.piclist.com ).

The gist of it is that some people (anecdotal evidence) have clocked 20MHz
parts to 36MHz or more, but I've not heard one going that high.  I suspect
that the pic cannot use a 50MHz crystal (due to drive circuitry
limitations) in any case, and a 50MHz oscillator would have to be used, f
it worked at all.

If you need speed, look at the 18C devices, and look at the scenix
devices.  The 18C is 4 times faster, but can only be run at 10MHZ or
lower, the scenix (sorry, ubicom now...) goes to 50MHz and 100MHz parts
are coming Real Soon Now(TM).

By my calculations the 18C should be able to double your data rate
(12k/s), and the scenix should be able to quintuple your data rate
(30k/s).

In short, I would overclock the pic, I would use the right tool for the
right job.  There are few things more painful to debug than an
intentionally bad design.

-Adam

Jeethu Rao wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\16@110316 by M. Adam Davis

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sorry, meant to say

In short, I wouldN'T overclock the pic, I would use the right tool for the
right job.  There are few things more painful to debug than an
intentionally bad design.

-Adam

"M. Adam Davis" wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\16@112744 by David VanHorn

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At 11:04 AM 1/16/01 -0500, M. Adam Davis wrote:
>sorry, meant to say
>
>In short, I wouldN'T overclock the pic, I would use the right tool for the
>right job.  There are few things more painful to debug than an
>intentionally bad design.

You win a cigar! :)
I'm a firm believer in not deliberately introducing problems into a design.

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2001\01\16@114528 by Dan Michaels

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Dave Van Horn wrote:
>At 11:04 AM 1/16/01 -0500, M. Adam Davis wrote:
>>sorry, meant to say
>>
>>In short, I wouldN'T overclock the pic, I would use the right tool for the
>>right job.  There are few things more painful to debug than an
>>intentionally bad design.
>
>You win a cigar! :)
>I'm a firm believer in not deliberately introducing problems into a design.
>

Is this experience speaking here, or superstition?

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2001\01\16@115604 by Drew Vassallo

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>Dave Van Horn wrote:
> >At 11:04 AM 1/16/01 -0500, M. Adam Davis wrote:
> >>sorry, meant to say
> >>
> >>In short, I wouldN'T overclock the pic, I would use the right tool for
>the
> >>right job.  There are few things more painful to debug than an
> >>intentionally bad design.
> >
> >You win a cigar! :)
> >I'm a firm believer in not deliberately introducing problems into a
>design.
> >
>
>Is this experience speaking here, or superstition?

Oh no.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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2001\01\16@120407 by David VanHorn

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>
> >You win a cigar! :)
> >I'm a firm believer in not deliberately introducing problems into a design.
> >
>
>Is this experience speaking here, or superstition?

Experience, and engineering.


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2001\01\16@120411 by Bob Ammerman

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Amen!

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

{Original Message removed}

2001\01\16@120416 by David VanHorn
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>>
>>Is this experience speaking here, or superstition?
>
>Oh no.

Does the phrase "non-deterministic execution" ring any bells?
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2001\01\16@120619 by Germain Morbe

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Hi,
OVERCLOCKING was developed for Pentium processors, they dont have any
problem with that.

Except that they usually die much earlier than expected.

Germain Morbe

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2001\01\16@121249 by Bob Ammerman

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Actually, overclocking has been around a _lot_ longer than thePentium.

And it has _never_ been a good idea, except for certain limited conditions
where reduced reliability (flakiness) can be tolerated because of the higher
speed.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

{Original Message removed}

2001\01\16@123110 by severson

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I overclocked a 4MHz m*t*r*la processor to 16MHz "just to see". Then I
"confidently" ran it at 8MHz for hours. I stressed it by warming it up,
cooling it off, making faces at it. I installed it in my application and ran
it for months. Then it started acting flaky.

It was only for a personal application, so I accepted the odd behavior. But
I won't do it again. Just not worth operating out of spec.

Anybody else overclock their own pacemaker? I.. kak! gahh.. ahhk.

-Robert Severson
http://usbsimm.home.att.net
http://www.jged.com
http://www.annatechnology.com

> {Original Message removed}

2001\01\16@123735 by Steven J. Devine

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> Hi,
> OVERCLOCKING was developed for Pentium processors, they dont have any
> problem with that.

Well, I had overclocked 386's and 486's way back when, and new poeple who overclocked older parts...

> Except that they usually die much earlier than expected.

Which may not be a problem in the PC arena, where the technology changes rapidly and you plan on upgrading the CPU's every 6 months (or shorter if you really screw it up  ;-)  )...  but I would not build a circuit overclocking a chip if I expected it to work over the long haul...  
I suppose it could depend on the project requirements and life expectancy...

Steve

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2001\01\16@124121 by Alan B. Pearce

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>OVERCLOCKING was developed for Pentium processors, they dont have any
>problem with that.

I think you might find that it was being done to Z80 systems running CP/M long
before Pentium's were a gleam in Intel's eye.

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2001\01\16@133354 by Dan Michaels

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Dave Van Horn wrote:
>>
>> >You win a cigar! :)
>> >I'm a firm believer in not deliberately introducing problems into a design.
>> >
>>
>>Is this experience speaking here, or superstition?
>
>Experience, and engineering.
>

Good for you.

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2001\01\16@134357 by David VanHorn

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At 05:14 PM 1/16/01 +0000, Alan B. Pearce wrote:
> >OVERCLOCKING was developed for Pentium processors, they dont have any
> >problem with that.
>
>I think you might find that it was being done to Z80 systems running CP/M long
>before Pentium's were a gleam in Intel's eye.

Indeed.. Asymmetrical clocking too.

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2001\01\16@141201 by Germain Morbe

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Excuse me mention the -Pentium- as an acronym for personal computer CPUs and
even for the early 8 bitters. Now i realized that a whole bunch of Piclist
members have some era of computer experience like me. Maybe even more for
some.

Overclocking in fact has a long tradition, because there where allways guys
searching to get more out of their hardware as they have paid for.While this
is absolutely OK for personal use at ones own risk, i would strongly suggest
not to take such ideas into account in development of commercial products.

As i felt most piclist members to be professionals, i say there is no need
for overclocking as there is allways a chip offering the required
performance. It simply has its price mostly.

Germain

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2001\01\19@045551 by Peter L. Peres

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>Indeed.. Asymmetrical clocking too.

I think that the asymmetrical beast was the 8080. The Z80 required a
*very* clean 50.000% duty cycle rail to rail drive and used to get hotter
than some Pentiums get now ;-)

Peter

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'[PIC]: Overclocking'
2002\11\03@023026 by Russell McMahon
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Might this method will allow me to run a 16F628 at 100 MHz?

           http://www.muropaketti.com/artikkelit/cpu/nw2800/index3.phtml

:-)

           RM

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2002\11\03@032253 by Jinx

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> Might this method will allow me to run a 16F628 at 100 MHz?
>
> http://www.muropaketti.com/artikkelit/cpu/nw2800/index3.phtml
>

And if WDT is indeed linear, it would be around -1 second !! ??

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