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'[PIC]: Languages -ASM, C++, BASIC'
2003\02\17@163202 by Robert Soubie

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On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:09:34 -0600, spam_OUTllileTakeThisOuTspamSALTONUSA.COM wrote on Re:
Languages -ASM, C++, BASIC:

>There are basic compilers for the PIC too.  If you don't already know
>BASIC, then they will be as much work to learn as C and as expensive.

There are different choices among Basics for the PIC; the most
expensive and IMHO best basic is melabs' PicBasic Pro and it is by far
less expensive than some C compilers you mentionned.
Others are LetBasic PicBasic, Basic18, and all are much cheaper in the
US$ or € 50 range.

So Basic is indeed to be considered!

PS: Given the choice I program in Pascal...

* .....soubieKILLspamspam@spam@atlantic-line.fr
* soubiespamKILLspamastrosurf.com
* http://www.astrosurf.com/soubie
* Alimentation thermostatée à découpage AlAudine NT:
* http://www.astrosurf.com/soubie/alaudine.htm
* Au royaume des aveugles, les borgnes sont mal vus... - P.Dac

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2003\02\17@164653 by Stef

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>
>
>PS: Given the choice I program in Pascal...
>
Interesting, which compiler do you use ?
regards,
Stef Mientki

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2003\02\17@194215 by Timothy Box

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All my experience with PICS has been through Basic compilers and I only use
ASM for interrupts. I have used both Melabs and PICBASIC PLus. IMHO PICBASIC
PLus is a far better language. If for no other reason than the data
handling. Melabs PBP has virtually none. Also Melabs has been static with no
major command additions for a year or so. PICBASIC Plus has been evolving
with leaps and bounds. (Look out for A new version is to be launched next
month).  LetBasic has been completely re-written too and is to be launched
about the same time. (Both from the same stable).

I have not written in C. Every time I start to think about it I get put off.
It has to be one of the most unreadable languages going.

So you have a choice. ASM, BASIC, or C. (yes I know there are others)

If I could persuade anybody what route to take I would say BASIC but learn
ASM too. As you will never really learn how to use PIC's with out doing so.
It will also help you write better code. There are some terrible programs
written in high level languages. When you are letting the compiler do all
the work and you have no idea what is happening underneath you do not
realise all the code that has to be generated to accommodate the :-

IF A + c - d = x or (z /23)+ y <<4 = 32 then

type statements that people dream up.

Is there a reason to use a High level language if you know ASM. Well Yes.
Why? Because you would be stupid not to. Why bother learning and trying to
implement serial, I2C, Lookup tables, LCD, GLCD, Floating point routines etc
when some one else has done it all for you.

Unless you are really trying to squeeze a quart out of a pint pot it is
really not worth the bother of writing it all in ASM.

I am completely biased toward Picbasic Plus, but I have learnt enough about
PICS and BASIC compilers to know what I am talking about.

Tim


{Original Message removed}

2003\02\17@195043 by Olin Lathrop

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> I have not written in C. Every time I start to think about it I get put
off.
> It has to be one of the most unreadable languages going.

You've never seen APL I guess.

> If I could persuade anybody what route to take I would say ...

Let's not start that holy war *again*.


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(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

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2003\02\18@003625 by cdb

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I really believe PIC's should be coded in Cobol. Nothing like 25
pages of gobbledygook just to print out "Hello"

Colin
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cdb, .....bodgy1KILLspamspam.....optusnet.com.au on 18/02/2003

I have always been a few Dendrites short of an Axon and believe me it
shows.

Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright
until they speak!

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2003\02\18@031129 by dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,

I mean Intercal would be a better choice. JFF.

Imre

On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, cdb wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\02\18@033638 by Timothy Box

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Opps

I don't want to start a war!!! I take it there has been some trouble in the
past? All I would say is Learn ASM and use a high level language as well.
What you use is up to your own preference. But do not just use the High
level stuff with out understanding what goes on underneath.

Tim

{Original Message removed}

2003\02\18@041158 by john chung

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Timothy Box wrote:

> Opps
>
> I don't want to start a war!!! I take it there has been some trouble in the
> past? All I would say is Learn ASM and use a high level language as well.
> What you use is up to your own preference. But do not just use the High
> level stuff with out understanding what goes on underneath.
>

  I use ASM to learn the internal workings of a microprocessor or microcontroller. It is a hate
or love relationship. For me.... ASM for PIC microcontroller is like a tough wife. The instruction
set is odd....... Different families like 16x and etc has different various instruction sets that they support.
Therefore writing for floating operations can be a pain for some and easier on others.

 I love C for it's easier expression that is widely excepted in the embedded and system development world.

 Using any language is ok. But looking for elegance in the solution is a hard quest. Try AWK or PERL for
text processing. Simply great. But when I use C or ASM then I shiver with doubts....... Now I am not saying that C is less superior than PERL or AWK.
The fact remains that each language has a great following and well suited in their fields.

 Just use any language you prefer. But learn to express your solution well in your favourite language is the
main reason why they rather write in their prefered language.

Any opinions or critism?


>
> Tim
>
> {Original Message removed}

2003\02\18@044857 by hael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Timothy Box [SMTP:Timspamspam_OUTTJBSYSTEMS.COM]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 12:42 AM
> To:   @spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      Re: [PIC]: Languages -ASM, C++, BASIC
>
> I have not written in C. Every time I start to think about it I get put
> off.
> It has to be one of the most unreadable languages going.
>
I can only that you've been looking at some very badly written code?  C
should not be that hard to read unless deliberately obfuscated.

Mike

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2003\02\18@051005 by Timothy Box

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Point taken. I'm glad it is not as bad as I had though. I will have to
invest the time into it next go.


Tim
{Original Message removed}

2003\02\18@093944 by Olin Lathrop

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> I don't want to start a war!!! I take it there has been some trouble in
the
> past? All I would say is ...

That's exactly the problem.  Everyone wants to say preach their view, and
nobody wants to listen to other's religious arguments.  This is now the
*second* time you've stated your opinion despite the fact that you say you
don't want to start a war (duh!).  That's already two times too many.
Let's not make it three.


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(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

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2003\02\18@154848 by Nate Duehr

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We should all be thankful there are so many excellent options for
programming PIC's... and some not-so-excellent ones too!  ;-)

Nate Duehr, KILLspamnateKILLspamspamnatetech.com

{Original Message removed}

2003\02\19@180251 by Peter L. Peres

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On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, cdb wrote:

*>I really believe PIC's should be coded in Cobol. Nothing like 25
*>pages of gobbledygook just to print out "Hello"

Ratfor would be a better choice imho. You don't need 25 pages to do
something in Cobol, but it is a good idea to use the same sectioning even
in assembly imho. I try to in C and asm. Eg. include section, define
section, proto section, code section, main section. Of course they are
just comments and I structure the source that way. It helps later..

Peter

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2003\02\19@183141 by Wagner Lipnharski

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Peter L. Peres wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, cdb wrote:
>
> *>I really believe PIC's should be coded in Cobol. Nothing like 25
> *>pages of gobbledygook just to print out "Hello"
>
> Ratfor would be a better choice imho. You don't need 25 pages to do
> something in Cobol, but it is a good idea to use the same sectioning
> even in assembly imho. I try to in C and asm. Eg. include section,
> define section, proto section, code section, main section. Of course
> they are just comments and I structure the source that way. It helps
> later..
>
> Peter


The same to learn how to write in elementary school.
Several issues:

Pencil - Needs to be sharpen all the time.
Paper  - You need to hold it straight, it bends, turn, etc.
Eraser - Always making more mess than the mistake.
Control- The pencil always go to a wrong direction.
Align  - The text seems to always turn to the down side.
Pen    - Nice, but horrible to fix mistakes.
Teacher- Just controlling you all the time.
Parents- Always saying you need to improve the way
        you hold the pencil.
Overall- Difficult to understand why we need to start to use
        the paper from top left to right and down.
        Why everybody all the time complain and ask us
        to use smaller letters and do it round.  It is
        so nice to write using 3 inches letters at the
        begin of text, and then turn it very small when
        by some reason somebody forgot to make the paper
        wider...

It is really a very hard job.  I wonder how we made it.

I always thought that easier than programming is just relax at the Bahamas.

:)

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2003\02\27@035133 by jim barchuk

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Hi Wagner!

On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Wagner Lipnharski wrote:

> Peter L. Peres wrote:
>
> The same to learn how to write in elementary school.
> Several issues:
>
> Pencil - Needs to be sharpen all the time.
> Control- The pencil always go to a wrong direction.
> Align  - The text seems to always turn to the down side.

And similar to 'insufficient comments,' sometimes, unless I really -try-
to make it legible, three hours later, I can't read what I wrote. I have
-asked- people what things 'looked like.' LOL!

Have a :) day!

jb

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2003\02\28@041126 by Peter L. Peres

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What is my name doing in that quote ? I did not write that.

Peter

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, jim barchuk wrote:

*>Hi Wagner!
*>
*>On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Wagner Lipnharski wrote:
*>
*>> Peter L. Peres wrote:
*>>
*>> The same to learn how to write in elementary school.
*>> Several issues:
*>>
*>> Pencil - Needs to be sharpen all the time.
*>> Control- The pencil always go to a wrong direction.
*>> Align  - The text seems to always turn to the down side.
*>
*>And similar to 'insufficient comments,' sometimes, unless I really -try-
*>to make it legible, three hours later, I can't read what I wrote. I have
*>-asked- people what things 'looked like.' LOL!
*>
*>Have a :) day!
*>
*>jb
*>
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*>
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2003\02\28@164816 by jim barchuk

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Hi Peter!

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> What is my name doing in that quote ? I did not write that.
>
> Peter

That's true, sorry, I left in too many attributions after snipping text.

Sometimes I cut -out- too many attributions and there is equal if not
greater confusion. :)

Have a :) day!

jb

Corrected:

{Quote hidden}

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