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'[PIC]: Kit 96 with picallw.exe, reads,'
2002\07\01@084308 by Olin Lathrop

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> when i run picallw.exe the hardware testing works ok, and i can read 2
> PIC16F84's which are new and presumably blank. The read command returns a
> bunch of zeros.

Unprogrammed PICs should read all ones, not zeros.  At least this is true of
the OTP parts, but I thought flash parts came from the factory that way too.
This means your programmer isn't reading correctly.

> ...
> this is also the same error if i try the same thing no pic inserted at
all.

That sounds like a big clue.


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2002\07\01@084318 by Rick C.

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face
I'm not sure if I'm on the right track but is the configuration word set
properly?
Rick

Chris Sharman wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\07\01@091105 by Chris Sharman

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> > when i run picallw.exe the hardware testing works ok, and i can read 2
> > PIC16F84's which are new and presumably blank. The read command returns
a
> > bunch of zeros.
>
> Unprogrammed PICs should read all ones, not zeros.  At least this is true
of
> the OTP parts, but I thought flash parts came from the factory that way
too.
> This means your programmer isn't reading correctly.
>
> > ...
> > this is also the same error if i try the same thing no pic inserted at
> all.
>
> That sounds like a big clue.


Any hints on where to look?

is there any way i can tell whether the PIC is communicating at all? i guess
that it can't be if it is supposed to be all 1 not 0's. oh well maybe i'll
resolder some more stuff....

the test window lets me turn on and off bits which in turn turn some LEDs on
and off like the test sheet suggests. and the power supply section appears
to be ok.

How about if the 13V was a little low, would this result in the problems i'm
having? (my multimeter is a little inaccurate and its close to 13). Does
this have to be 13V or just above 12V?


Thanks

Chris

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2002\07\01@091721 by Hazelwood Lyle

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There are a few things to look at:
This kit can be used with a 74LS05,74LS06 or 74LS07.
The picallw software must be set to correspond.

Make sure you have a 74LS05 or 74LS06 in your board, then
Run Picallw, open the settings menu:
       Set LPTPort to auto
       Hardware Setup/Test:
               Press P16Pro 74LS05,6 Kit96 (if you have an 05 or 06)
               if you have a 74LS07, press that button instead
Back in the main window, make sure you have P16Pro selected.
Select the appropriate PIC chip from the menu.
Make sure the ISP button on the bottom right is NOT checked

While programming, you should see some activity on the LED's on the
board.

If all else fails:
I am told that some brands of 74LS05 are better than others for this
board.
My board has a Texas Instruments chip.
There have been some reports that some motherboard parallel ports will
require
the addition of a small ceramic cap from RB7 to GND. I have not needed
this for
my own use. Check the PicallW help file for details.

Finally, have you registered the software? If it reads "demo mode" in
the main
window, then it is running in a restricted mode. I think this would
limit
program size for some PIC types.

Just for the record, I have the Kit96 programmer and Picallw.They have
never given
me a bit of trouble. (Knock Wood)

Lyle Hazelwood

{Original Message removed}

2002\07\01@095227 by Chris Sharman

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Hazelwood Lyle" <.....LHazelwoodKILLspamspam@spam@MFGNC.COM>
To: <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Kit 96 with picallw.exe, reads, but fails to program?
help!


{Quote hidden}

I have a 74LS06, and with that selected the set/clear buttons turn on and
off the appropriate LEDs.

> Back in the main window, make sure you have P16Pro selected.
> Select the appropriate PIC chip from the menu.

yep i have one 16F84A and one 16F84, i select the appropriate one...

> Make sure the ISP button on the bottom right is NOT checked

done

>
> While programming, you should see some activity on the LED's on the
> board.
>
> If all else fails:
> I am told that some brands of 74LS05 are better than others for this
> board.

Yeah i've replaced one already, same problem :(

> My board has a Texas Instruments chip.
> There have been some reports that some motherboard parallel ports will
> require
> the addition of a small ceramic cap from RB7 to GND. I have not needed
> this for
> my own use. Check the PicallW help file for details.

I will try this next

>
> Finally, have you registered the software? If it reads "demo mode" in
> the main
> window, then it is running in a restricted mode. I think this would
> limit
> program size for some PIC types.

it should be fine for my PIC16F84, runs in FREE mode :)

>
> Just for the record, I have the Kit96 programmer and Picallw.They have
> never given
> me a bit of trouble. (Knock Wood)

ahwell thats good to here...

there _must_ be something wrong with soldering or a component, i'll check
and resolder some things and try a small cap for RB7 to gnd and see how i
go.

Thanks for the suggestions

cheers

Chris

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2002\07\01@190035 by Tony Nixon

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Olin Lathrop wrote:

> Unprogrammed PICs should read all ones, not zeros.  At least this is true of
> the OTP parts, but I thought flash parts came from the factory that way too.
> This means your programmer isn't reading correctly.

Not true.

I haven't figured out why, but when I read a brand new PIC for the first
time it reads 0000's.

Once a new "F" series chip is purposely erased, then it will read all
1's.

This even happened on some older 16C74-JWs that I had. It's like the CP
fuse is set on a new chip. I could not program these chips with a
PICstart and found that I could after erasing them initially.


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Best regards

Tony

mICros
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.....salesKILLspamspam.....bubblesoftonline.com

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2002\07\02@033705 by dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,

the phenomena shows for me the serial data pin RB7 is stuck. Does it have
the required pull-up resistor? Some newer PICs required me to decrease
this to exactly 1k2 . I have also 330p capacitors for both clock and data.
I hope this helps.

Regards,
Imre


On Mon, 1 Jul 2002, Hazelwood Lyle wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2002\07\02@040236 by Chris Sharman

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picon face
Thanks for all the replies

i lost part of the thread so i'm not sure if i got all the posts.

anyway i tried it on a different PC and it works beautifully!! :)

now please don't tell me that picallw.exe doesn't function properly on
windows 2000, because the other computer is windows 98...

or maybe my parallel port is a bit funny. anyway i will try adding the
cap suggested above since some people say that helps. But for now i'm
just glad i can program some flashing lights :) wonderful feeling...

thanks again for everyones help...

BTW is there a linux programmer capable of programming with this
hardware?

cheers

Chris

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2002\07\02@075456 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> I haven't figured out why, but when I read a brand new PIC for the first
> time it reads 0000's.
>
> Once a new "F" series chip is purposely erased, then it will read all
> 1's.
>
> This even happened on some older 16C74-JWs that I had. It's like the CP
> fuse is set on a new chip. I could not program these chips with a
> PICstart and found that I could after erasing them initially.

This surprised me, so I did some tests.  I looked around here for
unprogrammed 16F parts, and found some 16F84, 16F628, 16LF628, 16F876, and
16F877.  Of these, all except the 16F628 read back as all zeros.  I tried
several 16F628s and the ones that weren't previously programmed read back
all ones.  We never explicitly "erase" F parts, just toss them back in the
bin when done, so a used part would never be all ones or all zeros.  Just to
make sure I wasn't going nuts, I checked an erased 16C66 and it did read
back all ones as expected.

I ran these test from MPLAB using a PicStart+, each time changing the
project settings for whatever chip I was testing.  And yes, I made sure the
16F628 was plugged in the right way around.  I even tried several of them.

This surprises me even more than all of them being zeros.  Can anyone else
reproduce these results?


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2002\07\02@080603 by Dale Botkin

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> This surprises me even more than all of them being zeros.  Can anyone else
> reproduce these results?

Your post got me thinking...  I know all my OTP parts have come in as all
1's as expected, but now that I think about it I do recall being mildly
surprised when I have checked new F parts and found them all zeros.  I
don't know if they have ALL been that way, or if the 628's were different
than the 877's or 84's or whatever.  I do have a few new 628's just
received, I'll check them out next time I'm at the bench.

Dale

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