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PICList Thread
'[PIC]: In Circuit Debugger?'
2001\01\26@024012 by Bourdon, Bruce

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Have any of you had success building your own ICD for the Pic16F87x that
works with MPLAB (or even one that doesn't)?

I've been poking around a bit, and I am no closer now than when I started -
and a lot less enthusiastic.

There is some info contained in the piclist archive, but nothing that shows
a successful attempt at it, mostly bits and pieces or quotes from elsewhere.

I did find the d877.hex disassembly - thank you very much:
http://www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/16f877/xicd.htm

And the MPLAB-ICD Module Schematics:
http://www.microchip.com/Download/Tools/PICmicro/ICDS/MPLABICD/etn21d.pdf

Problem is that Pic16lf876 (U1) is not the target for development, it is a
controller/interface acting as a go-between with the PC and the target
device: Therefore, to make a device that worked with MPLAB, we need to know
the contents of U1. I haven't bothered Microchip yet, I doubt they'd be
sympathetic.

The early bits and pieces I found seemed to imply that this was a reasonable
project. But it now appears much more reasonable to simply purchase
Microchips package.

Wondering what your experiences have been like.
Bruce.

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2001\01\26@031140 by Bourdon, Bruce

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I am currently leaning towards this $89.00 package for the PIC16F87X - In
Circuit Debugger (MPLAB-ICD):
http://www.phanderson.com/icd/index.html

This is the actual Microchip MPLAB-ICD Module! To cut costs in half they
drop the demo doards etc.

Anyone here delt with these people, use their stuff?

Other thoughts?
Bruce.

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2001\01\26@031501 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

The HEX for the PIC used in the ICD is available as part of the MPLAB
package.  I can't remeber the name of the file off-hand but I'm certain the
information is on piclist.com

Mike

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2001\01\26@032528 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bourdon, Bruce [SMTP:bbourdonspamspam_OUTZYDACRON.COM]
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 8:04 AM
> To:   @spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      Re: [PIC]: In Circuit Debugger?
>
> I am currently leaning towards this $89.00 package for the PIC16F87X - In
> Circuit Debugger (MPLAB-ICD):
> http://www.phanderson.com/icd/index.html
>
> This is the actual Microchip MPLAB-ICD Module! To cut costs in half they
> drop the demo doards etc.
>
> Anyone here delt with these people, use their stuff?
>
> Other thoughts?
> Bruce.
>
Professor Anderson is an active member of the mailing list, why don't you
ask him!  Seriously, if you just want the ICD functionality without the demo
board, and you can't/don't want to DIY it, then this is the way to go.

Mike

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2001\01\26@041519 by Bourdon, Bruce

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Mike:

He's a list member, really? Wow!

I did find a hex file, but it has to be for the target pic, not the one
inside the ICD/programmer module (orgs' at 0x1f00...).

From what I have been able to read, Professor Andersons unit is the same
Module - so I doubt he has access to the code inside that device (or at
least I doubt he would be allowed to release it to us).

But I like what I saw, and the price is great. Can even but it a Amazon.coms
Z-Shops if you don't like spreading your credit info around (talk about
making it easy)!

I am very likely going to buy his package.

Thanks for your quick response and info.
Bruce.

{Original Message removed}

2001\01\26@043003 by Alan B. Pearce

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there is definitely a hex file for the ICD PIC in the later MPLAB releases as it
required an update from the original release to work correctly. If I remember
correct it came in the MPLAB 4.x release, do not know if it is in the 5.x
release. I have a feeling it may also be available on the Microchip website as a
seperate file. read the document etn21.pdf to find the file name.

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2001\01\26@045745 by Peter Weichel

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--openmail-part-01170327-00000002
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
       ;Creation-Date="Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:58:28 +0100"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

It is in fact a part of the basic installation of MPLAB 5.x also.
Look in the MPLAB directory after the file: MPL876.HEX.



  {Original Message removed}

2001\01\26@083843 by Bob Ammerman

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> there is definitely a hex file for the ICD PIC in the later MPLAB releases
as it
> required an update from the original release to work correctly. If I
remember
> correct it came in the MPLAB 4.x release, do not know if it is in the 5.x
> release. I have a feeling it may also be available on the Microchip
website as a
> seperate file. read the document etn21.pdf to find the file name.

But, doesn't the update get programmed via a boot loader on the '876 on the
ICD module?

If so, we have a chicken and egg problem here.

If not, how does it get burned in?

(I have an ICD and I have an vague recollection of it being updated
dynamically via a bootloader. Was I dreaming this?)

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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2001\01\26@091451 by Howard Cripe

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The MPL876.HEX file can be programmed directly into the 16F876 for the ICD
module. I have built two of these and they work fine. The main problem I
had was getting the voltage references right on the ICD. I ended up putting
a series pot in line with the LED that is used for the reference voltage
and also one in place of R1 (another voltage reference). I played with
these values until I got it to work, then substituted fixed resistors for
the pots. (Empirical design at it's best!). Both boards ended up being
slightly different. I think this was due to using a 7805 on one and a 78L05
on the other. The circuit is very sensitive to these voltage references. If
they aren't right, it won't pass the self test and will also give other
errors like "Target not found". Someone suggested replacing the charge pump
with a fixed power supply. I and a couple of others tried this and it
doesn't work because the software in the ICD expects to be able to stop the
charge pump and have the voltage drop at a certain rate.

Good luck,

Howard Cripe


At 07:34 AM 1/26/01, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\26@102125 by Darrel Johansen

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The first shipments of MPLAB ICD used a 16C73 instead of a 16F876  (876's
weren't available when the 877 was first introduced).  So the first
firmware update required programming a new 16F876 and replacing the 16C73.
Once that's done, all further firmware upgrades can be done without
replacing the device.  Current firmware is always included in MPLAB.

Darrel Johansen

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2001\01\26@120446 by jamesnewton

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techref.massmind.org/techref/piclist/freeicd/index.htm

It has been built several times and works perfectly with MPLAB

How do people not find these FAQs?

If you hit piclist.com and search for "BUILD AND ICD" you get right to it.

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
EraseMEjamesnewtonspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

2001\01\26@133501 by Peter Anderson

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The source code for the PIC16F876 on the MPLAB Serial ICD is
proprietary and I don't have it, nor would I know what to do with it.

The .hex file for this PIC is included in MPLAB.  If you have an
older ICD which uses the PIC16C non flash EEPROM, I will provide a
programmed PIC16F876 for the cost of the PIC ($8.50).

But, all of the units we have sold are later than Firmware Version
2.0 and thus have the PIC16F876.  Thus, you can download the latest
firmware upgrade using nothing more than the ICD.

The units we sell are precisely the same provided by Microchip in
their $159 package.  These are not clones.

There is no special code on the target.  You can use any PIC16F870 -
877 on your breadboard or indeed on your final product.  The special
code is generated by MPLAB when you compile or assemble your routine
and is downloaded to the target along with your program.

Its a pretty nice unit.  In fact, I find I never use my far more
expensive emulators.

I have been selling stuff on-line for about five years, primarily to
give my students meaningful design projects and to pay them while
helping people beyond Morgan State University.  Although, I am sure
there may be one or two disatisfied people over the years, I think we
have a pretty good reputation.  With the speed of the internet, those
who don't provide good products and services just won't last.

Please don't use this "africana.com" address for inquiries as I only
use it to read the PIC list.  Rather pha(at)phanderson.com.

73

Peter H Anderson, pha(at)phanderson.com,
http://www.phanderson.com/icd/

---- Begin Original Message ----

From: "Bourdon, Bruce" <RemoveMEbbourdonEraseMEspamEraseMEZYDACRON.COM>
Sent: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 03:50:33 -0500
To: RemoveMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]: In Circuit Debugger?


Mike:

He's a list member, really? Wow!

I did find a hex file, but it has to be for the target pic, not the one
inside the ICD/programmer module (orgs' at 0x1f00...).

From what I have been able to read, Professor Andersons unit is the same
Module - so I doubt he has access to the code inside that device (or at
least I doubt he would be allowed to release it to us).

But I like what I saw, and the price is great. Can even but it a Amazon.coms
Z-Shops if you don't like spreading your credit info around (talk about
making it easy)!

I am very likely going to buy his package.

Thanks for your quick response and info.
Bruce.

{Original Message removed}

2001\01\26@183411 by mike

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On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:34:45 -0500, you wrote:

>> there is definitely a hex file for the ICD PIC in the later MPLAB releases
>as it
>> required an update from the original release to work correctly. If I
>remember
>> correct it came in the MPLAB 4.x release, do not know if it is in the 5.x
>> release. I have a feeling it may also be available on the Microchip
>website as a
>> seperate file. read the document etn21.pdf to find the file name.
>
>But, doesn't the update get programmed via a boot loader on the '876 on the
>ICD module?
>
>If so, we have a chicken and egg problem here.
>
>If not, how does it get burned in?
>
>(I have an ICD and I have an vague recollection of it being updated
>dynamically via a bootloader. Was I dreaming this?)
Early ICDs had a 16C76, so they had to provide a full 16F876 image,
including the loader, to do the upgrade. Obviously you need another
programmer to program the code into the first 16F876.
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2001\01\27@093428 by dre Domingos F. Souza

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>I am very likely going to buy his package.

       Really nice package. So bad It's too expensive to Brazilians :o(


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       All the best!!!
       Alexandre Souza
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       Linux User #85093

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2001\01\29@053911 by JP.BROWN

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I think what Bruce is trying to find out is how to use the ICD in a
general way so that it can be added to any project. ie. what do you need
to know to design your own ICD function? (not just how do you use
d877.hex). There are hints in previous threads that it is not that
difficult to do but I cannot find an example of source code that shows how
to access the ICD function. If the inner workings of the ICD were known
you could then use this to create your own custom pic operating systems!.

Here is what I know (from snippets I have read on this list):
If the ICD has been enabled in the configuration fuses then the pic
hardware will check RB6 and RB7 for 0V, if RB6 and RB7 are at 0V then the
user program will run normally from the reset vector otherwise a different
vector will be picked up from 0x18F and 0x18E (I think) and will then run
code at that address. The ICD code can be anything you want from a full
blown ICD application (mplab style) to a simple function that looks for a
button press on a port bit and executes the next (user) instruction.  You
can see from this that the ICD is not rocket science and that anyone with
a bit of pic programming experience could write there own ICD routines!.

Can anyone fill in the details from the brief and incomplete description
above to enable us to get at the ICD?.

----- John

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, James Newton wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\29@055812 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

I was under the impression that the registers at 0x18F and 0x18E are the
breakpoint registers.  When the program counter matches the address held in
these registers, the program vectors to the ICD handler which occupies the
last 256 bytes of program memory.

Mike

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