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PICList Thread
'[PIC]: IrDA'
2001\12\02@231208 by Salah

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Hi List,
  I am looking for PICC source code to implement the Transmit/Receive
protocol using the IrDA ,also an evaluation circuit for the same source code
.... Do I need to do all the IrDA protocols in order to be able to control
the IrDA devices(LEDs) or there is simple Tx/Rx procedure to encode/decode
the signals .....I don`t want to use the ready transceivers like MCP2150
...thinking to use PIC16F84A  to encode/decode the IrDA signals.

Thanx in advance.

Salah Mohammed
Hugle-Electronics,
Tokyo/Japan.

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2001\12\03@133003 by Simon-Thijs=20de=20Feber?=

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Hello,

I am very interested in that piece of software as well
!

Best regards,

Simon

--- Salah <.....salahKILLspamspam@spam@HUGLE.CO.JP> wrote: > Hi List,
{Quote hidden}

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2001\12\03@213448 by codefreeze 0

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>
>  --- Salah <.....salahKILLspamspam.....HUGLE.CO.JP> wrote: > Hi List,
> >    I am looking for PICC source code to implement
> > the Transmit/Receive
> > protocol using the IrDA ,also an evaluation circuit
> > for the same source code
> > .... Do I need to do all the IrDA protocols in order
> > to be able to control
> > the IrDA devices(LEDs) or there is simple Tx/Rx
> > procedure to encode/decode
> > the signals

Yes. But it is still simple to en/decode it once you know the protocol.


.....I don`t want to use the ready
> > transceivers like MCP2150
> > ...thinking to use PIC16F84A  to encode/decode the
> > IrDA signals.

There should be no problem. Complete data sheets are found at irda.org
FYI, I'm doing my project using MCP2150, so that I can squeeze in more code
to do other stuff.


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'[PIC]: IrDA'
2002\05\29@083433 by Nick Hardy
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Does anyone have code / knowledge of how to implement the full IrDA
protocols / stacks on a PIC? Thanks!

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'[PIC]: IRDA'
2003\05\27@133134 by Alex Kilpatrick
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I was wondering if anyone had experience working with a PIC and IrDA?  I
have seen some source code on the Web, and while it looks a bit more
complex than regular serial, it doesn't look too bad.
Can anyone suggest an easy-to-use IrDA module?  The Zilog ones seem ok
to me.  Also, can anyone tell me about real-world ranges they get with
an IrDA module?  And any pitfalls to avoid?
 Thanks!
Alex

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2003\05\27@135149 by David VanHorn

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A
>Can anyone suggest an easy-to-use IrDA module?  The Zilog ones seem ok
>to me.  Also, can anyone tell me about real-world ranges they get with
>an IrDA module?  And any pitfalls to avoid?

I'm using those in a project now.
They're fine, easy to use, but watch bypassing and PCB routing.
High pulsed currents, and sensitive analog together in one package.
If you follow the Zilog guidelines, you'll be fine.

Talking IRDA protocol is another matter. I used the Actisys chipset to encapsulate all that "fun", and present it to me as a TTL serial interface.

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2003\05\27@140901 by Robert Reimiller

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On Tue, 27 May 2003 12:16:05 -0500, you wrote:
>I was wondering if anyone had experience working with a PIC and IrDA?  I
>have seen some source code on the Web, and while it looks a bit more
>complex than regular serial, it doesn't look too bad.
>
>Can anyone suggest an easy-to-use IrDA module?  The Zilog ones seem ok
>to me.  Also, can anyone tell me about real-world ranges they get with
>an IrDA module?  And any pitfalls to avoid?
>
I have a prototype of a system using a PIC18F452 that uses a HP IrDA
module. The serial port on the PIC is already being used by a different
serial interface (RS232) so the IrDA is being bit banged at 9600 baud.
The PIC is running a 3.68mhz crystal, so obviously much higher rates
would be possible running faster.

I do not use the IrDA stack, the IrDA module is simply carrying SLIP
frame packets (http://www.certsoft.com/cnp11.pdf) with some 0xFF
bytes at the front of each packet for syncronization.

Bob

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2003\05\27@142446 by Alex Kilpatrick

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> >
> I have a prototype of a system using a PIC18F452 that uses a
> HP IrDA module. The serial port on the PIC is already being
> used by a different serial interface (RS232) so the IrDA is
> being bit banged at 9600 baud. The PIC is running a 3.68mhz
> crystal, so obviously much higher rates would be possible
> running faster.
>
> I do not use the IrDA stack, the IrDA module is simply
> carrying SLIP frame packets
> (http://www.certsoft.com/cnp11.pdf) with some > 0xFF bytes at
> the front of each packet for syncronization.
>
Thanks!  That is mainly what I wanted to know -- do you have to use the
protocol stack for an IrDA device that doesn't need to talk to a formal
IrDA device.   I am planning to use it to talk to another PIC with an
IrDA transceiver, so I can use my own protcol.

Will it work with just straight RS-232, or is there some tweaking that
you have to do?

Thanks

Alex

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2003\05\27@154540 by Brent Brown

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> I was wondering if anyone had experience working with a PIC and IrDA?
> I have seen some source code on the Web, and while it looks a bit more
> complex than regular serial, it doesn't look too bad.
>
> Can anyone suggest an easy-to-use IrDA module?  The Zilog ones seem ok
> to me.  Also, can anyone tell me about real-world ranges they get with
> an IrDA module?  And any pitfalls to avoid?

Have used the Microchip MCP2150 IrDA controller with the low power
Temic TFDU4201 module and PIC16F877. My part was just the hardware
design only, no software. We were a bit dissapointed with the overall
data throughput, but we were never sure if the bottlneck was the
MCP2150 or the overhead of IrDA.

Having said that, the setup was pretty easy to use as the MCP2150
takes care of the IrDA connection and protocol.

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16 English Street, Hamilton, New Zealand
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Mobile/txt: 025 334 069
eMail:  brent.brownspamspam_OUTclear.net.nz

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2003\05\27@162242 by Talmage Wesley

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What kind of throughtput were you expecting? 9600, 19200, etc?


Thanks
Talmage Wesley


-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Brown [@spam@brent.brownKILLspamspamCLEAR.NET.NZ]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 2:44 PM
To: KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]: IRDA


> I was wondering if anyone had experience working with a PIC and IrDA?
> I have seen some source code on the Web, and while it looks a bit more
> complex than regular serial, it doesn't look too bad.
>
> Can anyone suggest an easy-to-use IrDA module?  The Zilog ones seem ok
> to me.  Also, can anyone tell me about real-world ranges they get with
> an IrDA module?  And any pitfalls to avoid?

Have used the Microchip MCP2150 IrDA controller with the low power
Temic TFDU4201 module and PIC16F877. My part was just the hardware
design only, no software. We were a bit dissapointed with the overall
data throughput, but we were never sure if the bottlneck was the
MCP2150 or the overhead of IrDA.

Having said that, the setup was pretty easy to use as the MCP2150
takes care of the IrDA connection and protocol.

--
Brent Brown, Electronic Design Solutions
16 English Street, Hamilton, New Zealand
Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069
Mobile/txt: 025 334 069
eMail:  RemoveMEbrent.brownTakeThisOuTspamclear.net.nz

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2003\05\27@163848 by Robert Reimiller

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On Tue, 27 May 2003 13:23:11 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks!  That is mainly what I wanted to know -- do you have to use the
>protocol stack for an IrDA device that doesn't need to talk to a formal
>IrDA device.   I am planning to use it to talk to another PIC with an
>IrDA transceiver, so I can use my own protcol.
>
Right, if you don't need interopability with other IrDA devices at the
protocol level you can use your own protocol.

>Will it work with just straight RS-232, or is there some tweaking that
>you have to do?
>
Regular RS232 uses different levels than infrared. In RS232 the line
idles (mark condition) at 5V (from the UART's end of things) and the
space condition is 0V and lasts for the entire bit period.

For the HP transceiver (and others I have looked at), the transmit
idles at 0V and you just need a 5V pulse of about 1.6us for each
space bit. I forget if the receiver idles at 5V or 0V, but in either
case you will just get a pulse, not a signal for the entire bit period.
Thats why I decided to use the Uart for RS232 and bit-bang the IRDA.

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2003\05\27@164053 by Talmage Wesley

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What kind of throughput were you expecting? 9600, 19200, etc?

-----Original Message-----
From: Talmage Wesley [spamBeGonetwesleyspamBeGonespamTELEMOTIVE.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 3:23 PM
To: TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]: IRDA


What kind of throughtput were you expecting? 9600, 19200, etc?


Thanks
Talmage Wesley


-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Brown [RemoveMEbrent.brownspamTakeThisOuTCLEAR.NET.NZ]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 2:44 PM
To: PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]: IRDA


> I was wondering if anyone had experience working with a PIC and IrDA?
> I have seen some source code on the Web, and while it looks a bit more
> complex than regular serial, it doesn't look too bad.
>
> Can anyone suggest an easy-to-use IrDA module?  The Zilog ones seem ok
> to me.  Also, can anyone tell me about real-world ranges they get with
> an IrDA module?  And any pitfalls to avoid?

Have used the Microchip MCP2150 IrDA controller with the low power
Temic TFDU4201 module and PIC16F877. My part was just the hardware
design only, no software. We were a bit dissapointed with the overall
data throughput, but we were never sure if the bottlneck was the
MCP2150 or the overhead of IrDA.

Having said that, the setup was pretty easy to use as the MCP2150
takes care of the IrDA connection and protocol.

--
Brent Brown, Electronic Design Solutions
16 English Street, Hamilton, New Zealand
Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069
Mobile/txt: 025 334 069
eMail:  EraseMEbrent.brownspamclear.net.nz

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2003\05\27@172119 by Rick Regan

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{Quote hidden}

Another option is to interface the UART to an MCP2120.
It converts UART data to IrDA data (and vice
versa).  In other words, it takes care of just the
IrDA physical layer and not the full-blown IrDA stack.


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2003\05\27@184425 by James Caska

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>Another option is to interface the UART to an MCP2120.

Does the MCP2120 handle the IRDA bidirectionally.. I can you send and
receive over the UART over the IRDA simulataneously...

For instance what I want to do is to send SLIP packets over the IRDA via
MCP2120 directly to the Serial port of the PC and use the direct
connection to create an internet link. Works now for the physical wire..
Would it just be as simple as plugging in a MCP2120 coupling.

While I am at it, does anyone know how to create a SLIP direct link
connection like in win2k/XP on a WinCE device? So you could point say an
IPAQ irda port at a IRDA/MCP2120/UART and fire SLIP packets into the
winCE Browser.

I have wanted to demo the muvium servlet webserver interacting with a
webbrowser on an irda/SLIP/WinCE/IPAQ for ages!

Any thoughts?

James Caska
http://www.muvium.com
uVM - 'Java Bred for Embedded'



{Original Message removed}

2003\05\27@195424 by Rick Regan

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--- James Caska <RemoveMEcaskaEraseMEspamEraseMEVIRTUALBREADBOARD.COM> wrote:
> >Another option is to interface the UART to an
> MCP2120.
>
> Does the MCP2120 handle the IRDA bidirectionally.. I
> can you send and
> receive over the UART over the IRDA
> simulataneously...
>

According to the datasheet it looks like it's only
half duplex.

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2003\05\27@195639 by David VanHorn

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>
>According to the datasheet it looks like it's only
>half duplex.

IRDA is half duplex. Very hard to isolate the IR talk path from the IR listen path.

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2003\05\27@200509 by Robert Reimiller

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On Tue, 27 May 2003 23:43:35 +0100, you wrote:
>Does the MCP2120 handle the IRDA bidirectionally.. I can you send and
>receive over the UART over the IRDA simulataneously...
>
You aren't going to be able to do bidirectional with any kind of normal
IRDA that I'm aware of. The high intensity transmit light pulses will
swap the receiver.

>For instance what I want to do is to send SLIP packets over the IRDA via
>MCP2120 directly to the Serial port of the PC and use the direct
>connection to create an internet link. Works now for the physical wire..
>Would it just be as simple as plugging in a MCP2120 coupling.
>
Nope, you still need to add some synchronizing bytes (oxff) before the
start of each SLIP frame, typically on the order of 5-10ms of them
depending on the transceiver.

>While I am at it, does anyone know how to create a SLIP direct link
>connection like in win2k/XP on a WinCE device? So you could point say an
>IPAQ irda port at a IRDA/MCP2120/UART and fire SLIP packets into the
>winCE Browser.
>
Microsoft doesn't know how to implement standards. If you try to use
their "modem" drivers and select slip you can just start receiving
data like a normal Linux or Unix system. Their stupid driver sends out
some sort of string and expects something specific in the return, just
saw this someone, but forgot what it was. Of course, even if you get
past that, their slip isn't going to insert the synchronizing bytes.

For the windows based applications that I've written I've just opened
a serial port in binary mode and done my own SLIP framing and deframing.

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2003\05\28@065154 by Brent Brown

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Talmage Wesley wrote:
> What kind of throughtput were you expecting? 9600, 19200, etc?

Sorry, I don't recall the exact figures, but with a claimed 115200
baud IrDA link I think it was something less than what we could
otherwise get with a 9600 baud cable link. Figures from the data
sheet for the MCP2150 taking overheads and turnaround times into
account show typical throughput 62.7% with packets of 64 bytes size,
down to 2.6% for single byte packets (all at 115200 baud). The data
sheet explains fairly well what factors affect throughput, guess we
were just trying to use it with suitably inefficient packet sizes.

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Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069
Mobile/txt: 025 334 069
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