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'[PIC]: Hi-Tech C Libraries'
2001\10\25@203801 by Donovan Parks

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Hello,

I'm writting on behave of the AUV club at the University of Victoria.  We
are building an autonomous underwater vehicle (AUV) to compete in the 2002
AUVSI competition (http://www.auvsi.org/).  We are using several PIC16F877
to capture, filter, and process input from sensors.  We have obtained a copy
of Hi-Tech C (donated to us by Hi-Tech) and will be using this compiler to
program our PIC's.  Does anyone have C libraries for Hi-Tech for serial
communication, I2C communication, precise delay times, doing PWM, doing A/D,
etc...?  I would imagine that lots of people have already written libraries
to do this stuff.  Can anyone recommend sites with these libraries and/or
send me their libraries.

Also, does anyone have any "WATCHOUT" type advice when using Hi-tech C.

Thanks,
Donovan Parks
AUVic Lead Programmer

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2001\10\25@221458 by Scott Dattalo

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On Thu, 25 Oct 2001, Donovan Parks wrote:

> program our PIC's.  Does anyone have C libraries for Hi-Tech for serial
> communication, I2C communication, precise delay times, doing PWM, doing A/D,
> etc...?  I would imagine that lots of people have already written libraries
> to do this stuff.  Can anyone recommend sites with these libraries and/or
> send me their libraries.

I'd like them too. Or if anyone cares to throw any PIC C code my way I'll
make sure it will compile under SDCC. It may take some time before I
fulfill that promise, but there's a surprising large amount of stuff
already supported. (Stuff means C stuff.)

Scott

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2001\10\25@224953 by Brent Brown

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On Thu, 25 Oct 2001, Donovan Parks wrote:
> program our PIC's.  Does anyone have C libraries for Hi-Tech for serial
> communication, I2C communication, precise delay times, doing PWM, doing
> A/D, etc...?  I would imagine that lots of people have already written
> libraries to do this stuff.  Can anyone recommend sites with these
> libraries and/or send me their libraries.

I reccomend having a look around on this site:-

http://www.workingtex.com/htpic/


Brent Brown
Electronic Design Solutions
16 English Street
Hamilton, New Zealand
Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069
Mobile/text: 025 334 069
eMail:  spam_OUTbrent.brownTakeThisOuTspamclear.net.nz

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2001\10\25@231043 by Jeff DeMaagd

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----- Original Message -----
From: Brent Brown <.....brent.brownKILLspamspam@spam@CLEAR.NET.NZ>


> On Thu, 25 Oct 2001, Donovan Parks wrote:
> > program our PIC's.  Does anyone have C libraries for Hi-Tech for serial
> > communication, I2C communication, precise delay times, doing PWM, doing
>
> I reccomend having a look around on this site:-
>
> http://www.workingtex.com/htpic/

Hey, thanks!  I am just now experimenting with C compilers, I wasn't the one
asking but I was almost starting to wish there was a local cliff to jump off
of.  It was frustrating work because I've gotten so used to knowing what I
was doing in ASM.

Jeff

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2001\10\25@235159 by James Caska

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Probably a silly question, but am I to understand the the HITECH-C compiler
does not ship with libraries for these standard sort of things? Or does it
cost extra or something. It seems odd that a leading compiler does not
support this sort of thing.

James


{Original Message removed}

2001\10\26@012251 by Brent Brown

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James Caska wrote:
> Probably a silly question, but am I to understand the the HITECH-C
> compiler does not ship with libraries for these standard sort of
> things? Or does it cost extra or something. It seems odd that a
> leading compiler does not support this sort of thing.

Not a silly question, but yes, it doesn't come with those sort of
things. The reason is that it is an ANSI C compiler and those other
things aren't part of the ANSI standard. This makes it able to create
portable code that is easy to port to other compilers and other
chips, without a whole lot of functions you wont find on another
compiler.

In some ways it makes sense...for example, how many different
LCD routines would you need to cover 4 bit mode or 8 bit mode,
time delay or poll for busy flag, use 2 control lines or 3, 1 lines x 16
character, 2 x 16, 2 x 20, 4 x 40 etc etc etc.

Note: I sell Hi-Tech C so my view may be biased.

Brent Brown
Electronic Design Solutions
16 English Street
Hamilton, New Zealand
Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069
Mobile/text: 025 334 069
eMail:  brent.brownspamKILLspamclear.net.nz

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2001\10\26@020238 by Ned Konz

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On Thursday 25 October 2001 09:52 pm, Brent Brown wrote:
> James Caska wrote:
> > Probably a silly question, but am I to understand the the HITECH-C
> > compiler does not ship with libraries for these standard sort of
> > things? Or does it cost extra or something. It seems odd that a
> > leading compiler does not support this sort of thing.
>
> Not a silly question, but yes, it doesn't come with those sort of
> things. The reason is that it is an ANSI C compiler and those other
> things aren't part of the ANSI standard. This makes it able to create
> portable code that is easy to port to other compilers and other
> chips, without a whole lot of functions you wont find on another
> compiler.

That argument makes sense for non-standard keywords, pragmas, etc., but
doesn't make too much sense for libraries.

Assuming that there's a Standard C library in place doesn't mean as much for
someone writing code for a PIC as for a workstation, for one thing.

But even if the compiler is Standard C and it comes with Standard C
libraries, there's no reason that additional libraries couldn't be supplied
as an added value.

In fact, a compiler vendor could consider it a selling point for their
compiler.

Of course, maintaining the libraries is a headache, and support is an issue...

--
Ned Konz
currently: Stanwood, WA
email:     .....nedKILLspamspam.....bike-nomad.com
homepage:  http://bike-nomad.com

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2001\10\26@081339 by Gerhard Fiedler

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At 22:49 10/25/2001 -0700, Ned Konz wrote:
>On Thursday 25 October 2001 09:52 pm, Brent Brown wrote:
> > James Caska wrote:
> > > Probably a silly question, but am I to understand the the HITECH-C
> > > compiler does not ship with libraries for these standard sort of
> > > things?
> >
> > Not a silly question, but yes, it doesn't come with those sort of
> > things.
>
>That argument makes sense for non-standard keywords, pragmas, etc., but
>doesn't make too much sense for libraries.

In fact, it does come with a small collection of sample code (like
bit-banged I2C -- I'm surprised that Brent didn't mention this, selling the
compiler and so... :).

But for many other things originally requested, providing libs seems really
not to make much sense. Libraries for A/D? How many different AD converters
and methods exist, between external and internal, using internal or
external comparator and using (internal) PWM or a resistor ladder DAC for
comparing, ...? For the internal ADC for example, providing a lib would be
downright ridiculous. Configuring the lib would probably be more work than
setting up the ADC. Accessing an I2C or SPI ADC doesn't really need an ADC
lib, standard I2C or SPI code is good enough, the rest is pretty much
application-specific.

Of course I like it when I can just "plug it in", but then, I'd rather see
them spending their time in making the compiler itself better (and more bug
free) than providing additional libs which I can write on my own or ask
other users.

ge

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2001\10\26@083252 by Olin Lathrop

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> > program our PIC's.  Does anyone have C libraries for Hi-Tech for serial
> > communication, I2C communication, precise delay times, doing PWM, doing
A/D,
> > etc...?  I would imagine that lots of people have already written
libraries
> > to do this stuff.  Can anyone recommend sites with these libraries
and/or
> > send me their libraries.
>
> I'd like them too. Or if anyone cares to throw any PIC C code my way I'll
> make sure it will compile under SDCC. It may take some time before I
> fulfill that promise, but there's a surprising large amount of stuff
> already supported. (Stuff means C stuff.)

These kind of low level I/O routines may be easier to write in assembler.
Certainly they are easy to write in any case (I assume, unless the compiler
gets in your way even more than I think).  You might also not want "library"
routines.  I have routines like this, but it seems I end up customizing them
most of the time to suite the particular project.


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, EraseMEolinspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2001\10\26@084532 by James Caska

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Gerhard Fiedler wrote:

>How many different AD converters
>and methods exist, between external and internal, using internal or
>external comparator and using (internal) PWM or a resistor ladder DAC for
>comparing, ...?

I think someone wrote something about the 80/20 rule once. I am sure
libraries for standard stuff is no different.

>Of course I like it when I can just "plug it in",

My kind of thinking.

James


{Original Message removed}

2001\10\26@093144 by Dale Botkin

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> At 22:49 10/25/2001 -0700, Ned Konz wrote:
> >On Thursday 25 October 2001 09:52 pm, Brent Brown wrote:
> > > James Caska wrote:
> > > > Probably a silly question, but am I to understand the the HITECH-C
> > > > compiler does not ship with libraries for these standard sort of
> > > > things?
> > >
> > > Not a silly question, but yes, it doesn't come with those sort of
> > > things.
> >
> >That argument makes sense for non-standard keywords, pragmas, etc., but
> >doesn't make too much sense for libraries.

I'm still a novice C programer, so I guess I'm uclearon the difference
between a library and a built-in function.  One of the reasons I went with
CCS was its rich set of available functions for A/D, serial I/O, PWM,
interrupt handling, etc.  There are also a lot of example programs and
quite a few of what I would call "libraries" -- that is, a set of
functions that can be #included in your program.

Some are less useful than others, yes -- like the LCD and keypad routines,
which you would of course have to modify for your hardware.  A lot of
others, though, are highly useful.  For example, the compiler will
determine by the pin assignments in a pragma statement whether serial I/O
is being done with the hardware UART or bit-banged, and use appropriate
code on its own - though you can even specify to use bit-banged serial
using the hardware UART pins, for example if you want to send 8 bits plus
parity.  The ADC routines are simple but save an awful lot of time, and
generate code almost exactly the same as what I'd do in assembler.

So I don't know, does HT has that sort of thing built in?  At their prices
it wasn't a viable choice for me.  Personally, though, I *really really
like* having such things as putc(), getc(), pwm(), read_adc() and that
sort of thing available without having to write them from scratch and
#include them in every program I write.

Dale

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2001\10\26@102721 by Lawrence Lile

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THis is the heart of the difference between CCS and Hitech (see my other
post of today)  Probably the reason CCS has it's reputation for instability,
they *TRY* to support all these different library functions, and get lost in
the trees.  Hitech keeps it simple and stable (K.I.S.S.) and you end up
having a little include library of your own functions.

You'll not go wrong with either compiler.  CCS will end up costing you as
much as Hitech in the long run, $100 a year per compiler (  you need two,
PCB and PCM) because you can't do without the bug fixes.  But you may get
off the ground with C quicker and cheaper in the short run with CCS.

--Lawrence

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2001\10\27@170443 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

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> In some ways it makes sense...for example, how many different
> LCD routines would you need to cover 4 bit mode or 8 bit mode,
> time delay or poll for busy flag, use 2 control lines or 3, 1 lines x 16
> character, 2 x 16, 2 x 20, 4 x 40 etc etc etc.

IMHO a 4-bit lib with 2 control lines (the absolute minimum), which does not
concern itself with the layout at all, would serve maybe 90% of the needs,
and would provide a starting point for the remaining 10%.

> Note: I sell Hi-Tech C so my view may be biased.

I provide Jal which has such a library, so I am definitely biased!

Wouter van Ooijen

Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
Jal compiler for PIC uC's:  http://www.xs4all.nl/~wf/wouter/pic/jal

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