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'[PIC]: Cygwin'
2002\09\04@202359 by Barry Gershenfeld

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>From this it appears that you have to pay for a support contract in order to
>get hold of production code.

>Has anyone here actually used cygwin to implement large projects, or is this
>another case of "a friend of a friend of mine swears by it"
>Sergio Masci

Here's the way I read it:

- There used to be beta versions, all start with a "B".
- There was a commercial release, 1.0
- They're not interested in selling commercial releases
  because it's too much trouble to make CDs, etc.
- Red Hat has their own product which may or may not
  include some version of Cygwin...
- The Cygwin team continues to develop, you can download
  it, and the current version is 1.3-something

I installed it, and I use gcc to build simple C programs.  I
also run utilities like grep and sort and awk and so on.  The other
day I used it to build someone else's program (an RAR extractor).
But in true GNU style, if you can run gcc,  you can make anything...

My office-mate used gcc to build a complete cross-compiling
toolchain for the ARM, and uses it to build embedded video
controllers (about 100K object code).

It's not always smooth sailing, but it's real and it works.

People say you can run X, but I never have tried.

The 250K download is an installer, then you get to pick what
you want to have in your system.   You can go back and
get more packages later.

Barry

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2002\09\04@215815 by Sergio Masci

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----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Gershenfeld <spam_OUTbarry_gTakeThisOuTspamZMICRO.COM>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 1:10 AM
Subject: [PIC]: Cygwin


> >From this it appears that you have to pay for a support contract in order
to
> >get hold of production code.
>
> >Has anyone here actually used cygwin to implement large projects, or is
this
{Quote hidden}

Barry,
thanks for all the info. From what you're saying cygwin has evolved into
more than just a GNU windows runtime library. When I first looked at it
several years ago it seemed to be an attempt to improve on mingw and better
integrate it with gpp. Now it seems (from what you're saying) that it's a
GNU development environment running on windows.

You say that your office-mate used gcc to build an ARM tool chain. I was
hoping to read first hand testimonials involving the use of cygwin to
actually produce non-trivial windows programs.

Regards
Sergio Masci

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2002\09\05@012338 by bmichels

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face
I've run KDE under cygwin and it ran ok on my 600mhz P3.  Kinda slow, but usable.  I'm going to try again on my new 1.6ghz P4.  Not all that useful unless you're developing a gui app.  More of a 'wow, that's cool' thing.

Barry

On Wednesday 04 September 2002 08:10 pm, Barry Gershenfeld wrote:
> ....snip.....
> It's not always smooth sailing, but it's real and it works.
>
> People say you can run X, but I never have tried.
> ....snip....
> Barry

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2002\09\05@043905 by john

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well.. why dont you try to tell us what you want to do ... ? that way you can
get  REAL, USABLE information from us.

On Thursday 05 September 2002 02:10 am, Barry Gershenfeld wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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Thank-you for your time.

John Ward

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2002\09\05@114707 by Dipperstein, Michael

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> From: Sergio Masci [smplspamKILLspamNTLWORLD.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 7:02 PM

...

> You say that your office-mate used gcc to build an ARM tool
> chain. I was
> hoping to read first hand testimonials involving the use of cygwin to
> actually produce non-trivial windows programs.

If you just want to write windows programs vs. running programs intended for
*nix on a windows PC, you should look at mingw.

I'm not sure what counts as non-trivial.  I routinely use Dev-C++ and mingw to
write simple utilities.  Typically I write a resource script to create a main
dialog box with whatever controls I need, then I handle the controls with some C
code.  The GUI stuff is not very complex, the other processing by the utilities
can be pretty complex.

-Mike

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2002\09\05@114921 by Dave Dribin

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On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 03:02:11AM +0100, Sergio Masci wrote:
> Barry,
> thanks for all the info. From what you're saying cygwin has evolved into
> more than just a GNU windows runtime library. When I first looked at it
> several years ago it seemed to be an attempt to improve on mingw and better
> integrate it with gpp. Now it seems (from what you're saying) that it's a
> GNU development environment running on windows.

Cygwin is not a development environment to make native Windows
applications.  Anything built by Cygwin's gcc is linked against
cygwin.dll and the user will need to install this DLL to use it.
Cygwin and mingw are really not trying to work on the same problem.

> You say that your office-mate used gcc to build an ARM tool chain. I was
> hoping to read first hand testimonials involving the use of cygwin to
> actually produce non-trivial windows programs.

I use Cygwin all of the time, and from a user's perspective it is
*awesome*.  If you're a Unix user, download Cygwin ASAP.  It's nice to
get all your favorite tools on your non-favorite OS.  Take a look at
the packages that run under Cygwin:

 http://cygwin.com/packages/

You'll notice there are many non-trivial, large programs such as
XFree86, Apache, (X)Emacs, and PostgreSQL.  So I think you can safely
say that Cygwin can be used for large, complex projects.

Cygwin's main purpose is to provide a POSIX environment to make it
easy (easier?) to port Unix applications to Windows.  If you want a
full-blown native Win32 apps, you'll want to go with mingw.  One of my
Open Source programs, Game Launcher, is built with mingw:

 http://www.dribin.org/dave/game_launcher/

It's about 20,000 lines of mostly C++ code, not including all the 3rd
party libraries that I need to compile under mingw, too.  Of course,
I'm not sure what youre definition of non-trivial is, so it's hard to
say what your thinking will work on mingw.  If you want GUI type
programs, you can use mingw to access the native Windows APIs, but
I've always been interested in wxWindows:

 http://www.wxwindows.org/

FWIW, cyginw can "cross compile" mingw programs, i.e. create programs
that are not linked against the Cygwin DLL.  The only problem I found
with is this is that cross compiling C++ programs doesn't work very
well out of the box.

-Dave

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2002\09\09@111234 by Sergio Masci

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----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Dribin <.....dave-mlKILLspamspam.....DRIBIN.ORG>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Cygwin

[snip]

Dave, thanks for all the info. I will check out the URLs when I get a free
minute.

Regards
Sergio

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