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'[PIC]: Algorithm for 10^x'
2000\08\16@080405 by Andrzej W.Baranski

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Andrzey Baranski@ESA
08/16/2000 02:02 PM

Hello,
Does anybody know about an algorithm to calculate an exponential
function 10^x, where x is an 12-bits quantity.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards
Andrzej (Andy) W.Baranski

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2000\08\16@081620 by Bob Ammerman

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Is x integral, or fixed point. What is it's range?

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
sofftware)

{Original Message removed}

2000\08\16@083315 by Scott Dattalo

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On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Andrzej W.Baranski wrote:

> Andrzey Baranski@ESA
> 08/16/2000 02:02 PM
>
> Hello,
> Does anybody know about an algorithm to calculate an exponential
> function 10^x, where x is an 12-bits quantity.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.

I'd suggest Feynman's algorithm as described in Knuth's Volume 1 "The Art of
Computer Programming: Fundamental Algorithms" (see chapter 1's homework
exercises). I've implemented it in BASIC a long time ago (I believe I posted it
at one time even) but I haven't implemented it with a pic.

As an alternative to an iterative algorithm, you may wish to consider a lookup
table and first order linear interpolation. This is what I use for calculating
logarithms. See these for examples:

www.dattalo.com/technical/software/pic/piclog.html
http://www.dattalo.com/technical/theory/logs.html

BTW, what are you trying to do?

Scott

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2000\08\16@083528 by Andrzej W.Baranski

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Andrzey Baranski@ESA
08/16/2000 02:33 PM

Hello Bob,
Thanks for your reply.
The x is an output from a log amplifier which has a range from -80 dB to 10
dB

Andrzej (Andy) W.Baranski

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2000\08\16@084356 by Bob Ammerman

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Ok, but how is that scaled. What I mean by this:

The binary value 000000000000 represents: x.xxx

The binary value 111111111111 represents: y.yyy

What are x.xxx and y.yyy?

Or do you mean that 000000000000 represents -80 dB
and 111111111111 represents +10 dB?

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
sofftware)




From: Andrzej W.Baranski <spam_OUTabaranskTakeThisOuTspamESTEC.ESA.NL>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Algorithm for 10^x


> Andrzey Baranski@ESA
> 08/16/2000 02:33 PM
>
> Hello Bob,
> Thanks for your reply.
> The x is an output from a log amplifier which has a range from -80 dB to
10
> dB
>
> Andrzej (Andy) W.Baranski
>
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2000\08\16@085446 by Andrzej W.Baranski

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Andrzey Baranski@ESA
08/16/2000 02:53 PM

The -80 dB is 000000000000 and +10 dB is 111111111111





Bob Ammerman <RAMMERMANspamKILLspamPRODIGY.NET> on 16/08/2000 12:41:05

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list
     <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>

To:   EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Andrzey Baranski/estec/ESA)
Subject:  Re: [PIC]: Algorithm for 10^x



Ok, but how is that scaled. What I mean by this:

The binary value 000000000000 represents: x.xxx

The binary value 111111111111 represents: y.yyy

What are x.xxx and y.yyy?

Or do you mean that c represents -80 dB
and 111111111111 represents +10 dB?

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
sofftware)




From: Andrzej W.Baranski <abaranskspamspam_OUTESTEC.ESA.NL>
To: <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Algorithm for 10^x


> Andrzey Baranski@ESA
> 08/16/2000 02:33 PM
>
> Hello Bob,
> Thanks for your reply.
> The x is an output from a log amplifier which has a range from -80 dB to
10
> dB
>
> Andrzej (Andy) W.Baranski
>
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2000\08\16@085820 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 02:02 PM 8/16/00 +0100, Andrzej W.Baranski wrote:

>Hello,
>Does anybody know about an algorithm to calculate an exponential
>function 10^x, where x is an 12-bits quantity.

You can use a CORDIC algorithm.

Best regards,

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2000\08\16@131333 by Bob Ammerman

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Ok,

next questions:

What kind of accuracy do you need in the result?

Are we dealing with 10dB or 20dB per decade?

Are you writing in assembly or "C".

Are you using a floating point package?

What do you intend to do with the result? (transmit it elsewhere, display
it, use it in a calculation)

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
sofftware)

{Original Message removed}

2000\08\16@131959 by Dmitry Kiryashov

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Yeah, probably CORDIC is best what you can do with that.
For 12 bits you will need 12 cycles(or loops) to get
result. Try to search on the webs for CORDIC related
math for fast tracking into it.

WBR Dmitry.

> At 02:02 PM 8/16/00 +0100, Andrzej W.Baranski wrote:
>
> >Hello,
> >Does anybody know about an algorithm to calculate an exponential
> >function 10^x, where x is an 12-bits quantity.
>
> You can use a CORDIC algorithm.

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2000\08\16@200840 by Bob Ammerman

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> At 02:02 PM 8/16/00 +0100, Andrzej W.Baranski wrote:
>
> >Hello,
> >Does anybody know about an algorithm to calculate an exponential
> >function 10^x, where x is an 12-bits quantity.


Here is a little analysis of a different sort of way to go about this.

We are given by Andrzej that 0 counts maps to -80 dB and 4095 counts map to
+10 dB.

Now, assume that we are dealing with dB SPL, where we have 20 dB per decade.
(A similar analysis can be performed for dB IL, with 10 dB per decade).

We want to figure out how many of the 4096 counts corresponds to a doubling
of the value (trust me, you'll see why):

4096 counts = 90 dB

1 dB corresponds to 4096/90 ==  45.511111 counts

A factor_of_10 (20 dB) corresponds to 20*4096/90 == 910.22222 counts

A factor_of_2 corresponds to a factor_of_10 * the log10(2) (ie: the base 10
log of 2) (ie: 0.30103):

Thus a factor_of_2 corresponds to 20*4096/90*0.30103 == 274.004 counts.

Note how conveniently close to 274 that is!

So, one way we could solve this problem would be to compute how many factors
of two are in the result as follows:

   pow_of_2 = raw_counts / 274                // integer division
   value_left  = raw_counts % 274             // integer remainder

Now, we build a table of 274 precomputed values. These values are the number
represented by the count values 0 through 273. They could be computed on a
PC like this:

for i = 0 to 273
   precomputed_value[i] = 0.0001 * 2 ^ (i / 274.0)
next i

Note that the first element of value[i] = 0.0001 * 2 ^ 0 == 0.0001 = 10 ^ -4
which is -80 dB SPL.
The last element of value[i] = 0.0001 * 2 ^ (273/274) which is nearly twice
as much.

If we had one more entry in the table it would be 0.001 * 2 ^ (274/274)
which is 0.0002. This shows that the function will be 'smooth' as we wrap
around the table with increasing raw counts.

The precomputed values could be stored in any convenient format: binary,
decimal, bcd, whatever.

So, now to compute 10^x, where x is our log value:

temp = precomputed_value[i]

while (pow_of_2-- > 0)
   temp = temp + temp

The only arithmetic operation we need to be able to perform on our value is
doubling, which is trivial for binary and very easy to do in BCD or DECIMAL
formats.

Of course we do need a chunk of memory to store the "precomputed_value"
table, but that could be quite a bit less than a full floating point
package.

For dB IL (where a doubling is 10 dB) we would only need half as many
entries in the table.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
sofftware)

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2000\08\17@023748 by Nikolai Golovchenko
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Dmitry, could you please explain how to apply CORDIC to exponential
function?

I just recently started to learn about that algorithm and how to use
it for magnitude, phase, sine and cosine calculations. But I would
like  to  learn  how to use CORDIC for other elementary math. Not much
pointers on the net :(

BTW, it doesn't look so good for magnitude calculation. It takes
around 1500 cycles for PIC to find sqrt(x^2+y^2), where x, y are 16
bit signed numbers. Probably, using good square and square root
routines would be faster in that case.

Thanks in advance,

Nikolai

P.S. Good starting point to get into CORDIC:
http://www.dspguru.com/info/faqs/cordic.htm

---- Original Message ----
From: Dmitry Kiryashov
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 16:57:11
 To: RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subj: [PIC]: Algorithm for 10^x

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2000\08\17@172033 by Dmitry Kiryashov

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Hi Nikolai. ;)

> Dmitry, could you please explain how to apply CORDIC to exponential
> function?
I'm not promising alot but as only will have 20 free minutes to go other
office location I will search for those docs in backed up database of
file
server. I remember that there were many articles in the past how to
apply
CORDIC for non standart math functions and hopefully for exponential
too.
(There was a discussion somewhere that CORDIC can be applied for that
but
doubled iterations are required for some cases)

> I just recently started to learn about that algorithm and how to use
> it for magnitude, phase, sine and cosine calculations. But I would
> like  to  learn  how to use CORDIC for other elementary math. Not much
> pointers on the net :(
Try altavista with: +CORDIC +"math*" +"exponent*" I guess it should
works.

I played with CORDIC together with vertical math to significantly reduce
code size and execution time for some correlation based signal
detection.
Because it is very easy to do number shifting in vertical math. Special
thanks to Scott Dattalo and John Payson. You guys opened a door for me
into such a upside down beautiful world ;)

> BTW, it doesn't look so good for magnitude calculation. It takes
> around 1500 cycles for PIC to find sqrt(x^2+y^2), where x, y are 16
> bit signed numbers. Probably, using good square and square root
> routines would be faster in that case.

1500 is sounding too long.. Probably you are doing correction on
every iteration not finally ? I'll be curious to look your code if
that is possible. Looks like a good candidate for optimization ;)

WBR Dmitry.

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2000\08\19@102633 by Nikolai Golovchenko

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part 1 2797 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii (decoded 7bit)

What I found on the net was something about 'linear' and 'hyperbolic'
rotations. Using this kind of rotations, functions like
ln/exp/sqrt/... can be calculated. But hyperbolic stuff is above my
understanding, especially rotations :) So I would be very glad if you
find a simple explanation...

Take a look at the magnitude routine in attachment. Correction is made
outside the loop, so it's not the main problem. Most of the time in
the loop is spent on register shifts. So vertical math may probably
help. However, if a 16 bit register used vertically, it looks like it
would take 16 8-bit registers. Can that be avoided?

Enjoy :)

Nikolai

---- Original Message ----
From: Dmitry Kiryashov <RemoveMEzewsspamTakeThisOuTAHA.RU>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 23:05:23
 To: PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subj: [PIC]: Algorithm for 10^x

{Quote hidden}


part 2 4450 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream; name="magnitude16.asm"
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part 3 142 bytes
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2000\08\23@100610 by Andrzej W.Baranski

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Andrzey Baranski@ESA
08/23/2000 04:04 PM

First let me thank you, to all who took their time to replay to my question,
but particularly to Bob for his, as usual, in depth explanation.
I've just got hold of September issue of Dr.Dobb's Journal, and there's
an article by Michael Pashea " Microcontrollers & CORDIC Methods",
The source code ( cordic.txt and cordic.zip ) is at

http://www.ddj.com/ftp/2000/2000_09/

Regards
Andrzej (Andy) W.Baranski

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2000\08\24@092225 by Nikolai Golovchenko

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Andy, thanks for the pointer. The article makes things a bit
more clear.

I found the modified code (original from Dr Dobbs October
1990) referred to in this article at:

http://devil.ece.utexas.edu/code.html

The code can calculate all functions that are possible using
CORDIC algorithm.

Nikolai

---- Original Message ----
From: Andrzej W.Baranski <RemoveMEabaranskEraseMEspamEraseMEESTEC.ESA.NL>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 18:04:25
 To: RemoveMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subj: [PIC]: Algorithm for 10^x

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