Post by thread:[PIC]: 628 vs 628A

I'm just about to re-stock the the empire with PICs. In the 16F range I normally use the 16F628. Arrow have the 628A, which I've not used before, for NZ$2.90 (the 628 is currently NZ$4.90). I know there are programming differences between the two, but will there be problems with a PicStart Plus and MPLAB 6.20.0.0 ? Does the 628A have any operational quirks not in the 628 ? TIA ============================================== Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing - Wernher von Braun -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

pic microcontroller discussion list wrote: > know there are programming differences between the two, but > will there be problems with a PicStart Plus and MPLAB 6.20.0.0 ? if you look in the readme file, it says the PS+ will support the 628A if you have firmware 04.10.00 or higher. That means their special flash upgrade kit, i guess. I kept my PS+ at 3.11 since getting a ProMateII Phil Eisermann Electronics Engineer The Ridge Tool Company (440)329-4680 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Jinx wrote: >I'm just about to re-stock the the empire with PICs. In the 16F >range I normally use the 16F628. Arrow have the 628A, which >I've not used before, for NZ$2.90 (the 628 is currently NZ$4.90). I >know there are programming differences between the two, but >will there be problems with a PicStart Plus and MPLAB 6.20.0.0 ? >Does the 628A have any operational quirks not in the 628 ? > > Hi Jinx, The 628A is not supported by the PicStart+ at all. David... -- ___________________________________________ David Duffy Audio Visual Devices P/L U8, 9-11 Trade St, Cleveland 4163 Australia Ph: +61 7 38210362 Fax: +61 7 38210281 New Web: http://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au ___________________________________________ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Jinx wrote: >> I'm just about to re-stock the the empire with PICs. In the 16F >> range I normally use the 16F628. Arrow have the 628A, which >> I've not used before, for NZ$2.90 (the 628 is currently NZ$4.90). I >> know there are programming differences between the two, but >> will there be problems with a PicStart Plus and MPLAB 6.20.0.0 ? >> Does the 628A have any operational quirks not in the 628 ? > David Duffy wrote: > Hi Jinx, > The 628A is not supported by the PicStart+ at all. Er, what I meant is with the "normal" firmware that you probably have. David... -- ___________________________________________ David Duffy Audio Visual Devices P/L U8, 9-11 Trade St, Cleveland 4163 Australia Ph: +61 7 38210362 Fax: +61 7 38210281 New Web: http://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au ___________________________________________ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> if you look in the readme file, it says the PS+ will support the > 628A if you have firmware 04.10.00 or higher. That means their > special flash upgrade kit, i guess. I kept my PS+ at 3.11 since > getting a ProMateII > > Phil Eisermann Thanks. I had a look in "Readme for PICSTART Plus.txt" and the 628 (whether that's 628 and 628A it doesn't say) is covered by a note about f/w 2.30 or greater. My PS+ is also 3.11, in a windowed C44, which I figured would be more economical than OTPs so I guess I could upgrade if 4.10 isn't going to cause problems with the other PICs and projects I have ongoing. I have to say I'm a little reluctant to upgrade after experiencing FUBBs with MPLAB and silicon. But I can always go back a step if it doesn't work out. Hopefully that won't be the case and I'll not be stuck with tubes of 628A -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> special flash upgrade kit Which was something I'd noticed but not realised the ramifications of. For other PS+ owner's benefit - "This PICSTART Plus Flash Upgrade Module is a PCB containing a PIC18F6720 device and it permanently replaces the PIC17C44 inside the PICSTART Plus. The firmware is upgradable using MPLAB IDE from now on. One no longer needs to program a PIC17C44 and open the product enclosure to upgrade the PICSTART Plus firmware" Kinda feel like a chump spending money on an EPROM C44 now that it's redundant after 3.11. grrrrrr. I'll have to enquire at Arrow about the flash kit, see if it's worth doing now or if it can wait -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

FWIW, earlier today I happend to notice that Wouter has this Flash upgrade in his WEB shop. Wouters prod code is "PIC-PUG". Just if you'd like to compare prices... Jan-Erik. Jinx wrote : {Quote hidden}> > "This PICSTART Plus Flash Upgrade Module is a PCB containing > a PIC18F6720 device and it permanently replaces the PIC17C44 > inside the PICSTART Plus. The firmware is upgradable using MPLAB > IDE from now on. One no longer needs to program a PIC17C44 and > open the product enclosure to upgrade the PICSTART Plus firmware" > > Kinda feel like a chump spending money on an EPROM C44 now > that it's redundant after 3.11. grrrrrr. I'll have to enquire > at Arrow about > the flash kit, see if it's worth doing now or if it can wait > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

TN/PAC said: > FWIW, earlier today I happend to notice that Wouter has > this Flash upgrade in his WEB shop. Wouters prod code > is "PIC-PUG". Just if you'd like to compare prices... >> "This PICSTART Plus Flash Upgrade Module is a PCB containing >> a PIC18F6720 device and it permanently replaces the PIC17C44 >> inside the PICSTART Plus. Microchip says their upgrade is only for Rev 5 through 19 Picstart+ versions. I have a Rev 4. Anyone know the difference, or if PIC-PUG will work on my version? Wouter? Thanks, Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> FWIW, earlier today I happend to notice that Wouter has > this Flash upgrade in his WEB shop. Wouters prod code > is "PIC-PUG". Just if you'd like to compare prices... Price I've been given by Arrow for the UK003010 is NZ$60, (~UKP20) which isn't much, the difference between a tube of 628 and 628A, so may as well do it now to take advantage of the low 628A price Possibly I would shop around but I'd like to be stuffing 50 boards next week and hiccups are on the no-thank-you list -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> Microchip says their upgrade is only for Rev 5 through 19 > Picstart+ versions My PS+ has, on the bottom of the case 10-00157-R8 <<--- Rev 08 ? JIT974820692 and on the PCB SBC-2BA 94V-0 97-43 (date code ?) 04-01376-REV <<--- Rev 04 ? -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Not to unnecessarily complicate things but . . . I switched almost everything I do from the 628 to the 628A about 6 months ago. I have not upgraded my PicStart because I don't use it to program the 628A's. Instead I use the Microchip ICD2. The main reason for this is that the ICD 2 is VASTLY faster at programming chips than is the PicStart. Something like an order of magnitude faster, or so it seems. I'm thinking that if I were considering a PicStart upgrade at UKP20, I might be thinking of upgrading to an ICD 2 instead. John Hansen At 02:31 PM 1/15/2004 +1300, you wrote: {Quote hidden}> > FWIW, earlier today I happend to notice that Wouter has > > this Flash upgrade in his WEB shop. Wouters prod code > > is "PIC-PUG". Just if you'd like to compare prices... > >Price I've been given by Arrow for the UK003010 is NZ$60, (~UKP20) >which isn't much, the difference between a tube of 628 and 628A, so >may as well do it now to take advantage of the low 628A price > >Possibly I would shop around but I'd like to be stuffing 50 boards next >week and hiccups are on the no-thank-you list > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different >ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> seems. I'm thinking that if I were considering a PicStart upgrade > at UKP20, I might be thinking of upgrading to an ICD 2 instead. That's something being given some thought. I'm waiting for a price Ideally I'd like an ICE but the bloody price keeps going up. An ICE2000 is currently NZ$4050 and I simply can't justify that for the type of work I usually do, although I realise it can be a labour saver -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

At 02:50 PM 1/15/04 +1300, you wrote: >> Microchip says their upgrade is only for Rev 5 through 19 >> Picstart+ versions > >My PS+ has, on the bottom of the case > >10-00157-R8 <<--- Rev 08 ? >JIT974820692 Yup. Rev 8. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Tom wrote: >At 02:50 PM 1/15/04 +1300, you wrote: > > >>>Microchip says their upgrade is only for Rev 5 through 19 >>>Picstart+ versions >>> >>> >>My PS+ has, on the bottom of the case >> >>10-00157-R8 <<--- Rev 08 ? >>JIT974820692 >> >> > >Yup. Rev 8. > > Damn. One of mine is R17 but the other one is R4. You need R5 or better to do the upgrade! :-( Oh well, time to figure out how to drive that ICD2 I bought a last year! David... -- ___________________________________________ David Duffy Audio Visual Devices P/L U8, 9-11 Trade St, Cleveland 4163 Australia Ph: +61 7 38210362 Fax: +61 7 38210281 New Web: http://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au ___________________________________________ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

At 12:47 PM 1/15/2004 +1000, you wrote: >Dave Duffy wrote: >> > >Damn. One of mine is R17 but the other one is R4. You need R5 >or better to do the upgrade! :-( Oh well, time to figure out how to >drive that ICD2 I bought a last year! >David... > I have one of each - just in case. Actually, I think the picstart plus with flash upgrade will probably do everything that I am ever interested in programming. The ICD2 does most of them but also allows ICSP action and interactive code/burn with some low level "ice" functionality. I was very happy with it. If you have an ICD2 you have not yet used, you will probably like it when you start. I made a ICSP adapter for my various prototype boards and it's great. For people who produce bug free working code right from the git-go, you won't need it. For the rest of us... it's the thing. Good luck! Tom -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

>Damn. One of mine is R17 but the other one is R4. You need R5 >or better to do the upgrade! :-( Oh well, time to figure out >how to drive that ICD2 I bought a last year! Well the ICD2 gives you other functionality as well, especially if you buy the debug version of the 628A chips with the extra pins to hook the ICD up. However I think you will find that the difference between R4 and R5 of the PS+ is listed in ETN20 from the Microchip site. It is a change in resistors that set the programming voltage. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spam_OUTlistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

David D wrote: >>Damn. One of mine is R17 but the other one is R4. You need R5 >>or better to do the upgrade! :-( Oh well, time to figure out >>how to drive that ICD2 I bought a last year! >> >> Alan B. Pearce wrote: >Well the ICD2 gives you other functionality as well, especially if you buy >the debug version of the 628A chips with the extra pins to hook the ICD up. > >However I think you will find that the difference between R4 and R5 of the >PS+ is listed in ETN20 from the Microchip site. It is a change in resistors >that set the programming voltage. > > Hmmm... I did the programming voltage mod when it was released some time back so maybe I can upgrade an R4 version after all? Time to go and do some digging. :-) David... -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email .....listservKILLspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Jinx wrote: > Ideally I'd like an ICE but the bloody price keeps going up. An > ICE2000 is currently NZ$4050 and I simply can't justify that for > the type of work I usually do, although I realise it can be a labour > saver Jinx, you must be either a Microchip PIC consultant or do enough PIC work to easily become one. In that case you get the tools at greatly reduced rates. Anyone who does serious PIC development work for hire should never pay list price for Microchip tools. The consultant program has other benefits too, including a very liberal sample program and a person at the factor whos job it is to make sure you have what you need from Microchip to get a PIC design done. You also get top notch service when something breaks, listing on their web site, more attention from the local office, etc. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> Jinx, you must be either a Microchip PIC consultant or do > enough PIC work to easily become one. In that case you > get the tools at greatly reduced rates. Anyone who does > serious PIC development work for hire should never pay list > price for Microchip tools That's a point of view I hadn't considered. You may remember a brief conversation we had a couple of years ago about your local support and accessibility compared with mine. Maybe I could pursue this a little more vigourously and see if I can get a break -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email .....listservKILLspam.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

The Microchip moderator on the Microchip forum for development tools states that the flash upgrade kit MAY not work with a rev 4 PICSTART, this may relate to if you have done the ECO recommended to that version or not. The clear direction was go ahead and try it, if it doesn't work reliably, apparently Microchip will upgrade you to the new PICSTART with the flash device at no charge. She did state this more than once in the list. No details on how to go about that, however as time goes by there may be some postings from people that have upgraded rev 4 boards and the results. Bob Bullock Certified Microchip Consultant At 04:14 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>TN/PAC said: > > FWIW, earlier today I happend to notice that Wouter has > > this Flash upgrade in his WEB shop. Wouters prod code > > is "PIC-PUG". Just if you'd like to compare prices... > > >> "This PICSTART Plus Flash Upgrade Module is a PCB containing > >> a PIC18F6720 device and it permanently replaces the PIC17C44 > >> inside the PICSTART Plus. > >Microchip says their upgrade is only for Rev 5 through 19 Picstart+ >versions. I have a Rev 4. Anyone know the difference, or if PIC-PUG will >work on my version? Wouter? > >Thanks, > >Bob > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different >ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservspam_OUTTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> > I'm thinking that if I were considering a PicStart upgrade at > > UKP20, I might be thinking of upgrading to an ICD 2 instead > > I'm waiting for a price From Arrow Australia via Arrow NZ - Flash Upgrade NZ$81 (UKP27, US$57) ICD2 NZ$540 (UKP180, US$380) Pretty lop-sided equation As the 628 is being phased out in favour of the 628A I'll do the upgrade now for the 628A and get an ICD2 later -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

On 16 Jan 2004 at 17:30, Jinx wrote: > From Arrow Australia via Arrow NZ - > Flash Upgrade NZ$81 (UKP27, US$57) > ICD2 NZ$540 (UKP180, US$380) > > Pretty lop-sided equation Oh yeah? I got an ICD2 from Arrow NZ back in December for NZ$326. Haven't used it yet, for sale at NZ$539! Mind you, I got the DV164005 version which doesn't come with all any demo board or books etc. -- Brent Brown, Electronic Design Solutions 16 English Street, Hamilton, New Zealand Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069 Mobile/txt: 025 334 069 eMail: @spam@brent.brownKILLspamclear.net.nz -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email KILLspamlistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Jinx wrote: >>>I'm thinking that if I were considering a PicStart upgrade at >>>UKP20, I might be thinking of upgrading to an ICD 2 instead >>> >>> >>I'm waiting for a price >> >> > >From Arrow Australia via Arrow NZ - > >Flash Upgrade NZ$81 (UKP27, US$57) >ICD2 NZ$540 (UKP180, US$380) > >Pretty lop-sided equation > >As the 628 is being phased out in favour of the 628A I'll do the >upgrade now for the 628A and get an ICD2 later > > Hmmm... I only paid ~AU$300 tax paid for my ICD2. Still not cheap. The upgrade would be better value for you. David... -- ___________________________________________ David Duffy Audio Visual Devices P/L U8, 9-11 Trade St, Cleveland 4163 Australia Ph: +61 7 38210362 Fax: +61 7 38210281 New Web: http://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au ___________________________________________ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu

> Oh yeah? I got an ICD2 from Arrow NZ back in December for > NZ$326. Haven't used it yet, for sale at NZ$539! Mind you, I got > the DV164005 version which doesn't come with all any demo > board or books etc I must have been quoted for something more than just a basic ICD2. I'll look into it. It's a little academic at the moment as the PS+ upgrade will do for the time being. Not having any major problems with current projects and those in the In Tray aren't rocket science (but not drudgery either, you understand) -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu

Jinx wrote: > > I must have been quoted for something more than just a basic > ICD2. I'll look into it. It's a little academic at the moment as the > PS+ upgrade will do for the time being. Not having any major > problems with current projects and those in the In Tray aren't > rocket science (but not drudgery either, you understand) > Microchip is also selling the PS+ upgrades from their website for US$29. Oddly, this is the same price listed on Arrow's US site. I wonder why the price they quoted for you was so much higher. Daniel Imfeld -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

Can you provide contact details and or WEB address - thanks Roy ************************************************* Roy Hopkins rdhopkinsEraseME.....ihug.co.nz ************************************************* > > = NZ$41. Hmmm. Not a bad mark-up for Arrow NZ > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.561 / Virus Database: 353 - Release Date: 13/01/2004 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestmitvma.mit.edu

>I must have been quoted for something more than just a basic >ICD2. I'll look into it. It's a little academic at the moment as the >PS+ upgrade will do for the time being. Not having any major >problems with current projects and those in the In Tray aren't >rocket science (but not drudgery either, you understand) Farnell UK quote three different forms of ICD2. 1. basic ICD2 with USB cable. Looks like it might be Microchip model DV164005 2. ICD2 with USB and Serial cables and power supply, looks like Microchip model DV164007, Farnell 395-6477, UKP129.99 3. ICD2 kit as (2) plus picdem 2+ kit, looks like Microchip model DV164006, Farnell 386-6397, UKP 149.99 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu

Jinx wrote: > I must have been quoted for something more than just a basic > ICD2. There are various flavors of ICD2 products. Some come with a PICdem board and a bunch of other stuff you probably don't need. The bare bones version retails for about $160 here, and we get it for $80. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTKILLspammitvma.mit.edu