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'[PIC]: 628 vs 628A'
2004\01\14@172239 by Jinx

face picon face
I'm just about to re-stock the the empire with PICs. In the 16F
range I normally use the 16F628. Arrow have the 628A, which
I've not used before, for NZ$2.90 (the 628 is currently NZ$4.90). I
know there are programming differences between the two, but
will there be problems with a PicStart Plus and MPLAB 6.20.0.0 ?
Does the 628A have any operational quirks not in the 628 ?

TIA

==============================================
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2004\01\14@174145 by Eisermann, Phil [Ridg/CO]

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pic microcontroller discussion list wrote:
> know there are programming differences between the two, but
> will there be problems with a PicStart Plus and MPLAB 6.20.0.0 ?

if you look in the readme file, it says the PS+ will support the
628A if you have firmware 04.10.00 or higher. That means their
special flash upgrade kit, i guess. I kept my PS+ at 3.11 since
getting a ProMateII

Phil Eisermann
Electronics Engineer
The Ridge Tool Company
(440)329-4680

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2004\01\14@175018 by David Duffy

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Jinx wrote:

>I'm just about to re-stock the the empire with PICs. In the 16F
>range I normally use the 16F628. Arrow have the 628A, which
>I've not used before, for NZ$2.90 (the 628 is currently NZ$4.90). I
>know there are programming differences between the two, but
>will there be problems with a PicStart Plus and MPLAB 6.20.0.0 ?
>Does the 628A have any operational quirks not in the 628 ?
>
>

Hi Jinx,
The 628A is not supported by the PicStart+ at all.
David...

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2004\01\14@175434 by David Duffy

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Jinx wrote:

>> I'm just about to re-stock the the empire with PICs. In the 16F
>> range I normally use the 16F628. Arrow have the 628A, which
>> I've not used before, for NZ$2.90 (the 628 is currently NZ$4.90). I
>> know there are programming differences between the two, but
>> will there be problems with a PicStart Plus and MPLAB 6.20.0.0 ?
>> Does the 628A have any operational quirks not in the 628 ?
>

David Duffy wrote:

> Hi Jinx,
> The 628A is not supported by the PicStart+ at all.


Er, what I meant is with the "normal" firmware that you probably have.
David...

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2004\01\14@180432 by Jinx

face picon face
> if you look in the readme file, it says the PS+ will support the
> 628A if you have firmware 04.10.00 or higher. That means their
> special flash upgrade kit, i guess. I kept my PS+ at 3.11 since
> getting a ProMateII
>
> Phil Eisermann

Thanks. I had a look in "Readme for PICSTART Plus.txt" and
the 628 (whether that's 628 and 628A it doesn't say) is covered
by a note about f/w 2.30 or greater. My PS+ is also 3.11, in a
windowed C44, which I figured would be more economical than
OTPs so I guess I could upgrade if 4.10 isn't going to cause
problems with the other PICs and projects I have ongoing. I have
to say I'm a little reluctant to upgrade after experiencing FUBBs
with MPLAB and silicon. But I can always go back a step if it
doesn't work out. Hopefully that won't be the case and I'll not be
stuck with tubes of 628A

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2004\01\14@181509 by Jinx

face picon face
> special flash upgrade kit

Which was something I'd noticed but not realised the ramifications
of. For other PS+ owner's benefit -

"This PICSTART Plus Flash Upgrade Module is a PCB containing
a PIC18F6720 device and it permanently replaces the PIC17C44
inside the PICSTART Plus. The firmware is upgradable using MPLAB
IDE from now on. One no longer needs to program a PIC17C44 and
open the product enclosure to upgrade the PICSTART Plus firmware"

Kinda feel like a chump spending money on an EPROM C44 now
that it's redundant after 3.11. grrrrrr. I'll have to enquire at Arrow about
the flash kit, see if it's worth doing now or if it can wait

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2004\01\14@183819 by

picon face
FWIW, earlier today I happend to notice that Wouter has
this Flash upgrade in his WEB shop. Wouters prod code
is "PIC-PUG". Just if you'd like to compare prices...

Jan-Erik.


Jinx wrote :

{Quote hidden}

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2004\01\14@191629 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
TN/PAC said:
> FWIW, earlier today I happend to notice that Wouter has
> this Flash upgrade in his WEB shop. Wouters prod code
> is "PIC-PUG". Just if you'd like to compare prices...

>> "This PICSTART Plus Flash Upgrade Module is a PCB containing
>> a PIC18F6720 device and it permanently replaces the PIC17C44
>> inside the PICSTART Plus.

Microchip says their upgrade is only for Rev 5 through 19 Picstart+
versions. I have a Rev 4. Anyone know the difference, or if PIC-PUG will
work on my version? Wouter?

Thanks,

Bob

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2004\01\14@203138 by Jinx

face picon face
> FWIW, earlier today I happend to notice that Wouter has
> this Flash upgrade in his WEB shop. Wouters prod code
> is "PIC-PUG". Just if you'd like to compare prices...

Price I've been given by Arrow for the UK003010 is NZ$60, (~UKP20)
which isn't much, the difference between a tube of 628 and 628A, so
may as well do it now to take advantage of the low 628A price

Possibly I would shop around but I'd like to be stuffing 50 boards next
week and hiccups are on the no-thank-you list

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2004\01\14@205253 by Jinx

face picon face
> Microchip says their upgrade is only for Rev 5 through 19
> Picstart+ versions

My PS+ has, on the bottom of the case

10-00157-R8   <<--- Rev 08 ?
JIT974820692

and on the PCB

SBC-2BA
94V-0
97-43  (date code ?)

04-01376-REV  <<--- Rev 04 ?

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2004\01\14@205913 by John Hansen

picon face
Not to unnecessarily complicate things but . . .

        I switched almost everything I do from the 628 to the 628A about 6
months ago.   I have not upgraded my PicStart because I don't use it to
program the 628A's.  Instead I use the Microchip ICD2.  The main reason for
this is that the ICD 2 is VASTLY faster at programming chips than is the
PicStart.  Something like an order of magnitude faster, or so it
seems.  I'm thinking that if I were considering a PicStart upgrade at
UKP20, I might be thinking of upgrading to an ICD 2 instead.

John Hansen


At 02:31 PM 1/15/2004 +1300, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2004\01\14@212654 by Jinx

face picon face
> seems.  I'm thinking that if I were considering a PicStart upgrade
> at UKP20, I might be thinking of upgrading to an ICD 2 instead.

That's something being given some thought. I'm waiting for a price

Ideally I'd like an ICE but the bloody price keeps going up. An
ICE2000 is currently NZ$4050 and I simply can't justify that for
the type of work I usually do, although I realise it can be a labour
saver

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2004\01\14@213728 by Tom

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face
At 02:50 PM 1/15/04 +1300, you wrote:
>> Microchip says their upgrade is only for Rev 5 through 19
>> Picstart+ versions
>
>My PS+ has, on the bottom of the case
>
>10-00157-R8   <<--- Rev 08 ?
>JIT974820692

Yup. Rev 8.

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2004\01\14@215012 by David Duffy

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Tom wrote:

>At 02:50 PM 1/15/04 +1300, you wrote:
>
>
>>>Microchip says their upgrade is only for Rev 5 through 19
>>>Picstart+ versions
>>>
>>>
>>My PS+ has, on the bottom of the case
>>
>>10-00157-R8   <<--- Rev 08 ?
>>JIT974820692
>>
>>
>
>Yup. Rev 8.
>
>

Damn. One of mine is R17 but the other one is R4. You need R5
or better to do the upgrade! :-(  Oh well, time to figure out how to
drive that ICD2 I bought a last year!
David...

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2004\01\14@222223 by Tom

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At 12:47 PM 1/15/2004 +1000, you wrote:
>Dave Duffy wrote:
>>
>
>Damn. One of mine is R17 but the other one is R4. You need R5
>or better to do the upgrade! :-(  Oh well, time to figure out how to
>drive that ICD2 I bought a last year!
>David...
>

I have one of each - just in case.  Actually, I think the picstart plus
with flash upgrade will probably do everything that I am ever interested in
programming.  The ICD2 does most of them but also allows ICSP action and
interactive code/burn with some low level "ice" functionality.  I was very
happy with it.

If you have an ICD2 you have not yet used, you will probably like it when
you start. I made a ICSP adapter for my various prototype boards and it's
great.  For people who produce bug free working code right from the git-go,
you won't need it.  For the rest of us... it's the thing.

Good luck!
Tom

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2004\01\15@040845 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Damn. One of mine is R17 but the other one is R4. You need R5
>or better to do the upgrade! :-(  Oh well, time to figure out
>how to drive that ICD2 I bought a last year!

Well the ICD2 gives you other functionality as well, especially if you buy
the debug version of the 628A chips with the extra pins to hook the ICD up.

However I think you will find that the difference between R4 and R5 of the
PS+ is listed in ETN20 from the Microchip site. It is a change in resistors
that set the programming voltage.

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2004\01\15@043621 by David Duffy

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David D wrote:

>>Damn. One of mine is R17 but the other one is R4. You need R5
>>or better to do the upgrade! :-(  Oh well, time to figure out
>>how to drive that ICD2 I bought a last year!
>>
>>

Alan B. Pearce wrote:

>Well the ICD2 gives you other functionality as well, especially if you buy
>the debug version of the 628A chips with the extra pins to hook the ICD up.
>
>However I think you will find that the difference between R4 and R5 of the
>PS+ is listed in ETN20 from the Microchip site. It is a change in resistors
>that set the programming voltage.
>
>

Hmmm... I did the programming voltage mod when it was released
some time back so maybe I can upgrade an R4 version after all?
Time to go and do some digging. :-)
David...

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2004\01\15@073051 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
Jinx wrote:
> Ideally I'd like an ICE but the bloody price keeps going up. An
> ICE2000 is currently NZ$4050 and I simply can't justify that for
> the type of work I usually do, although I realise it can be a labour
> saver

Jinx, you must be either a Microchip PIC consultant or do enough PIC work to
easily become one.  In that case you get the tools at greatly reduced rates.
Anyone who does serious PIC development work for hire should never pay list
price for Microchip tools.

The consultant program has other benefits too, including a very liberal
sample program and a person at the factor whos job it is to make sure you
have what you need from Microchip to get a PIC design done.  You also get
top notch service when something breaks, listing on their web site, more
attention from the local office, etc.


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2004\01\15@151829 by Jinx

face picon face
> Jinx, you must be either a Microchip PIC consultant or do
> enough PIC work to easily become one.  In that case you
> get the tools at greatly reduced rates. Anyone who does
> serious PIC development work for hire should never pay list
> price for Microchip tools

That's a point of view I hadn't considered. You may remember
a brief conversation we had a couple of years ago about your
local support and accessibility compared with mine. Maybe I
could pursue this a little more vigourously and see if I can get
a break

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2004\01\15@201052 by Bob Bullock

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The Microchip moderator  on the Microchip forum for development tools
states that the flash upgrade kit MAY not work with a rev 4 PICSTART, this
may relate to if you have done the ECO recommended to that version or
not.  The clear direction was go ahead and try it, if it doesn't work
reliably, apparently Microchip will upgrade you to the new PICSTART with
the flash device at no charge.  She did state this more than once in the
list.  No details on how to go about that, however as time goes by there
may be some postings from people that have upgraded rev 4 boards and the
results.

Bob Bullock
Certified Microchip Consultant

At 04:14 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2004\01\15@233102 by Jinx

face picon face
> > I'm thinking that if I were considering a PicStart upgrade at
> > UKP20, I might be thinking of upgrading to an ICD 2 instead
>
> I'm waiting for a price

From Arrow Australia via Arrow NZ -

Flash Upgrade NZ$81 (UKP27, US$57)
ICD2 NZ$540 (UKP180, US$380)

Pretty lop-sided equation

As the 628 is being phased out in favour of the 628A I'll do the
upgrade now for the 628A and get an ICD2 later

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2004\01\15@234726 by Brent Brown

picon face
On 16 Jan 2004 at 17:30, Jinx wrote:

> From Arrow Australia via Arrow NZ -
> Flash Upgrade NZ$81 (UKP27, US$57)
> ICD2 NZ$540 (UKP180, US$380)
>
> Pretty lop-sided equation

Oh yeah? I got an ICD2 from Arrow NZ back in December for NZ$326.
Haven't used it yet, for sale at NZ$539! Mind you, I got the DV164005
version which doesn't come with all any demo board or books etc.

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2004\01\16@001718 by David Duffy

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Jinx wrote:

>>>I'm thinking that if I were considering a PicStart upgrade at
>>>UKP20, I might be thinking of upgrading to an ICD 2 instead
>>>
>>>
>>I'm waiting for a price
>>
>>
>
>From Arrow Australia via Arrow NZ -
>
>Flash Upgrade NZ$81 (UKP27, US$57)
>ICD2 NZ$540 (UKP180, US$380)
>
>Pretty lop-sided equation
>
>As the 628 is being phased out in favour of the 628A I'll do the
>upgrade now for the 628A and get an ICD2 later
>
>

Hmmm... I only paid ~AU$300 tax paid for my ICD2.
Still not cheap. The upgrade would be better value for you.
David...

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2004\01\16@013737 by Jinx

face picon face
> Oh yeah? I got an ICD2 from Arrow NZ back in December for
> NZ$326. Haven't used it yet, for sale at NZ$539! Mind you, I got
> the DV164005 version which doesn't come with all any demo
> board or books etc

I must have been quoted for something more than just a basic
ICD2. I'll look into it. It's a little academic at the moment as the
PS+ upgrade will do for the time being. Not having any major
problems with current projects and those in the In Tray aren't
rocket science (but not drudgery either, you understand)

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2004\01\16@023003 by Daniel Imfeld

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Jinx wrote:
>
> I must have been quoted for something more than just a basic
> ICD2. I'll look into it. It's a little academic at the moment as the
> PS+ upgrade will do for the time being. Not having any major
> problems with current projects and those in the In Tray aren't
> rocket science (but not drudgery either, you understand)
>

Microchip is also selling the PS+ upgrades from their website for US$29.
Oddly, this is the same price listed on Arrow's US site.  I wonder why the
price they quoted for you was so much higher.

Daniel Imfeld

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2004\01\16@033602 by Jinx

face picon face
> Microchip is also selling the PS+ upgrades....for US$29

= NZ$41. Hmmm. Not a bad mark-up for Arrow NZ

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2004\01\16@035506 by Hopkins

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Can you provide contact details and or WEB address - thanks Roy
*************************************************

Roy Hopkins

rdhopkinsEraseMEspam.....ihug.co.nz

*************************************************
>
> = NZ$41. Hmmm. Not a bad mark-up for Arrow NZ
>



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2004\01\16@084903 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I must have been quoted for something more than just a basic
>ICD2. I'll look into it. It's a little academic at the moment as the
>PS+ upgrade will do for the time being. Not having any major
>problems with current projects and those in the In Tray aren't
>rocket science (but not drudgery either, you understand)

Farnell UK quote three different forms of ICD2.

1. basic ICD2 with USB cable. Looks like it might be Microchip model
DV164005

2. ICD2 with USB and Serial cables and power supply, looks like Microchip
model DV164007, Farnell 395-6477, UKP129.99

3. ICD2 kit as (2) plus picdem 2+ kit, looks like Microchip model DV164006,
Farnell 386-6397, UKP 149.99

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2004\01\16@090416 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
Jinx wrote:
> I must have been quoted for something more than just a basic
> ICD2.

There are various flavors of ICD2 products.  Some come with a PICdem board
and a bunch of other stuff you probably don't need.  The bare bones version
retails for about $160 here, and we get it for $80.


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