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'[PIC]: New guy...'
2002\02\22@120743 by Pic Dude

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Hi all,

Just got into PICs and found this list.  These PIC's are really neat devices, though I bet you know that already.  I've been involved in digital electronics for quite some time so I do have a headstart.  For my planned projects, I'll be working primarily with the 16F84 and 16F872 chips for now, and using Linux.

Could use some help getting my evironment setup.  I've got a few PIC16F84A's, built a Tait Programmer and have been able to successfully download and run a sample hex file using PP-0.6 under Linux.

The next 2 thing I need to get moving are ...
(1) An assembler that works under Linux.  From the FAQ, I tried picasm, but am getting quirky results, and the link for tpasm seems broken.  Any pointers to other tools would be appreciated.  Don't need fancy for now -- just something that works fairly well until I learn a little more.
(2) Recommendations on a book and/or link to example projects with code in assembler.

Thanks in advance,
-Neil.

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2002\02\22@122314 by kben

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>my planned projects, I'll be working primarily with the 16F84 and 16F872

Tip number one, don't buy anymore 16f84s,
buy 16f628 instead cheaper more memory and features.

Things a beginner should know
http://www.piclist.org/techref/piclist/begin.htm

Projects a beginner should build
http://www.piclist.org/techref/piclist/cheapic/index.htm

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2002\02\22@124959 by Byron A Jeff

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On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 11:03:23AM -0600, Pic Dude wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Just got into PICs and found this list.

Welcome. One small administrative note: If possible could you hard wrap your
lines when sending to the list. Some of us have mail readers that won't
autowrap. Thanks,


>  These PIC's are really neat devices, though I bet you know that already.
> I've been involved in digital electronics for quite some time so I do have a
> headstart.  For my planned projects, I'll be working primarily with the 16F84
>  and 16F872 chips for now, and using Linux.

One suggestion. Ditch the 16F84/16F84A parts and step up to the 16F628. Same
pinout as the 16F84, more features all the way around, and cheaper.

Any 16F87X part is a keeper.

Here's an archive post of mine describing the 16F628 features:

(NOTE! PASSWORDED SITE! user name and password are both 'piclist')

http://www.infosite.com/~jkeyzer/piclist/2001/Jul/2315.html


>
> Could use some help getting my evironment setup.
> I've got a few PIC16F84A's, built a Tait Programmer and have been able to
>successfully download and run a sample hex file using PP-0.6 under Linux.

You can also take a look at my PIC page:

http://www.finitesite.com/d3jsys

It has among other things a low voltage Tait style programmer, picprog2.3b
programming software for Linux, development resources, and some of my own code.

Check it out. and welcome aboard. You may also want to think about subscribing
to the gnupic mailing list. Check them out at http://www.gnupic.org


BAJ

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2002\02\22@125356 by Pic Dude

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Awesome links.  This should keep me busy for the weekend.
Quick scan of the F628 datasheet and a price-check leaves me quite
impressed.  What's about the F872 though?  I chose that cause I needed the
basic capabilites of the F84 but with a basic A/D built in.  Speed is not a
concern -- 4 Mhz is more than plenty... for now.  I know I'll start needing
more and more memory overtime though.

Thanks much.




{Original Message removed}

2002\02\22@131450 by Byron A Jeff

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On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 11:58:40AM -0600, Pic Dude wrote:
> Awesome links.  This should keep me busy for the weekend.
> Quick scan of the F628 datasheet and a price-check leaves me quite
> impressed.  What's about the F872 though?  I chose that cause I needed the
> basic capabilites of the F84 but with a basic A/D built in.  Speed is not a
> concern -- 4 Mhz is more than plenty... for now.  I know I'll start needing
> more and more memory overtime though.

The F872-F877 is fine when you need A/D or more I/O than a F628 can offer.
PICs have almost always been offered on a power/capacity/IO/features
continuum. The F870-F877 family is a bit further up than the 16F628. I think
that many of us argue that the 16F84 slot has been wholly replaced by the
16F62X family.

Use both. Pick the appropriate one you need.

BAJ

{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\22@151020 by Olin Lathrop

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>>
Just got into PICs and found this list.  These PIC's are really neat
devices, though I bet you know that already.  I've been involved in digital
electronics for quite some time so I do have a headstart.  For my planned
projects, I'll be working primarily with the 16F84 and 16F872 chips for now,
and using Linux.
<<

The 16F84 is an old chip.  The 16F628 is a superset and costs less.  I would
also recommend the 16F876 instead of the 872.  In fact, others may disagree
with this, but I would just get the minimum 16F876 to get a price break and
be done with it (assuming this is for hobby use).  Lots of other things will
cost you more than the one-time costs of the PICs, even if you don't count
your time.

>>
The next 2 thing I need to get moving are ...
(1) An assembler that works under Linux.
<<

I hear there are such things out there, but I don't care since I don't have
an attitude problem and insist on not using Windows.  The real tools are all
free from Microchip and work very well.  I use them for professional PIC
development, although I've had to create a few wrapper programs because of
how I need to do a build and to get some additional features.  By the way,
you can have the wrappers for free at http://www.embedinc.com/pic.  All in
all, you'll find richer support for PIC development on Windows than on
Linux, and more people here will be able to help you.


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, spam_OUTolinTakeThisOuTspamembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2002\02\22@153925 by Mitch Miller

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On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> I hear there are such things out there, but I don't care since I don't have
> an attitude problem and insist on not using Windows.  The real tools are all
> free from Microchip and work very well.  I use them for professional PIC

Zing!

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2002\02\22@173114 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

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(1) An assembler that works under Linux.  From the FAQ, I tried picasm, but
am getting quirky results, and the link for tpasm seems broken.  Any
pointers to other tools would be appreciated.  Don't need fancy for now --
just something that works fairly well until I learn a little more.

dosemu + mpasm?

Wouter van Ooijen
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Jal compiler, Wisp programmer, WLoader bootloader, PICs kopen

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2002\02\22@184018 by Byron A Jeff

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On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 04:05:00PM +0100, wouter van ooijen & floortje hanneman wrote:
> (1) An assembler that works under Linux.  From the FAQ, I tried picasm, but
> am getting quirky results, and the link for tpasm seems broken.  Any
> pointers to other tools would be appreciated.  Don't need fancy for now --
> just something that works fairly well until I learn a little more.
>
> dosemu + mpasm?

Perish the thought! gpasm is almost mpasm's equal. In fact the only one thing
I can't get to work is something that you have in your code Wouter: the use
of a #v() in a macro. In fact now that I've reminded myself about it I think
I'll spend a few minutes and see if I can get that working...

Check out gpasm in the gputils here: http://gputils.sourceforge.net

You won't be sorry.

BAJ

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2002\02\22@194359 by Dal Wheeler

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www.devrs.com/pic/devsoft.php
Has some reasonable linux tools.  Also check out these:
http://www.ccsinfo.com/newtopiclinux.html
http://www.ccsinfo.com/picc.shtml
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/3656/c2c/c.html
That said, some *are* pretty primative; however MPLAB isnt exactly nirvana
either...

Go ahead and develop an attitude problem; you'd probably get along better
around here anyway...

:')
-Dal
{Original Message removed}

2002\02\23@030244 by Pic Dude

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That's a good thought -- I could try Wine or VMWare on Linux with mpasm.

Thanks.


----- Original Message -----
From: "wouter van ooijen & floortje hanneman" <.....wfKILLspamspam@spam@XS4ALL.NL>
To: <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: New guy...


> (1) An assembler that works under Linux.  From the FAQ, I tried picasm,
but
{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\23@030942 by Pic Dude

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"...since I don't have an attitude problem and insist on not using Windows."

Someone had to start, huh?

No attitude probs -- I have 2 laptops running Win2k (in another room) and
the desktop that I will be using for PIC dev is also is configured for
dual-boot
with Win2k.  However, the project I am working on is Linux-based, and I
will be writing a bunch of custom code in Linux, include SW to control a
hardware device on the parallel port.....all in Linux.

With all that, it should be easier to develop my PIC code on the same
platform as I will be using for development of the rest of the project.

BTW, I tried the NoPPP first but couldn't get it to work.  Obvious thought
was the whole Win2k control of ports issue, and I don't have a copy of DOS
etc
laying around.  Don't know much about fixing that prob otherwise, but I
tried the Tait programmer with pp-0.6 and it worked like a charm.

If I could get a reliable/low-cost programmer to work under Win2k, I could
be easily swayed into using it.

So relax a bit.
-Neil.





{Original Message removed}

2002\02\23@031148 by Pic Dude

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Hee hee hee!
Thanks for the links.
-Neil.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dal Wheeler" <.....dwheelerKILLspamspam.....INSIGHTEK.NET>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: New guy...


{Quote hidden}

are
> all
> > > free from Microchip and work very well.  I use them for professional
PIC
> >
> > Zing!
>
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>
>
>

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2002\02\23@042208 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

picon face
> That's a good thought -- I could try Wine or VMWare on Linux with mpasm.

You don't need anything fancy for MPASM, just dosemu is enough. The win
emulators come in when you want to use full MPLAB.

Wouter van Ooijen
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2002\02\23@055108 by Nick Veys

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> If I could get a reliable/low-cost programmer to work under
> Win2k, I could be easily swayed into using it.

http://www.picallw.com - P16Pro programmer.  Works great in Win2k, XP,
whatever!  Super cheap kits to build em too, nice stuff for like $25...

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2002\02\23@062740 by michael brown

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> > If I could get a reliable/low-cost programmer to work under
> > Win2k, I could be easily swayed into using it.
>
> http://www.picallw.com - P16Pro programmer.  Works great in Win2k, XP,
> whatever!  Super cheap kits to build em too, nice stuff for like $25...

I have one of these, (actually it is a picall programmer)  It works great.
It has never let me down.  The picall is a little more expensive, but it
does a ton of chips including AVR's, SX's and serial EEPROM's (24cxx).  I
have not tested it under Win2k, but it should work fine.  XP is another
issue, nothing works fine under it.

michael brown

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2002\02\23@075631 by Sergio Masci

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----- Original Message -----
From: Pic Dude <@spam@picdudeKILLspamspamAVN-TECH.COM>
To: <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: New guy...

> ....  However, the project I am working on is Linux-based, and I
> will be writing a bunch of custom code in Linux, include SW to control a
> hardware device on the parallel port.....all in Linux.
>
> With all that, it should be easier to develop my PIC code on the same
> platform as I will be using for development of the rest of the project.
>

There are versions of ZMech for the PIC that run native on linux.
They have built in XCASM (high level assembler) and XCSIM (simulator).
There are X Windows and direct graphics console ports (SVGALIB
and FBDEV) which give you a GUI interface to the visual programming
interface of ZMech AND allow you to link your simulation to GUI
mimics (build your own virtual hardware control console with switches,
sliders, gages, LEDs etc to drive real hardware through your parallel and
serial ports then hook this up to your simulator and get it to drive the
simulated target instead). The assembler lets you embed simulation
statements directly in your assembler source so you can do the equivalent
of adding print statements to your source as you would in BASIC or C
when debugging your code. You can embed instructions to validate values
in variables at points in your code but without the overhead of using any
code space. You can read/write values from and to files to the simulated
target. You can even get your simulated target talking to external native
linux processes (e.g. containing reference code) to feed it test data and
varify your algorithms.

BTW unlike MPLAB, XCSIM simulates systems consisting of multiple
interacting MPUs running at different speeds.

Have a look at http://www.xcprod.com/titan for more info. Don't forget
to look at XEBOT. This is what you would use to build your virtual
hardware console (visual basic style drag and drop).

So why bother with dosemu, wine or vmware?

Regards
Sergio

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2002\02\23@153536 by Daniel Webb

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On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> I hear there are such things out there, but I don't care since I don't have
> an attitude problem and insist on not using Windows.

 When I switched from Windows to Linux 2 years ago, my computer crashed
every 2 hours on average.  I lost a lot of time waiting for reboots and
cleaning up from the 3 minutes since the last auto-save.  Linux never
crashes.  Perhaps the newer Windows models can say that now too, but why
spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on it when I have free
alternatives for everything I want to do?

 For any of you who haven't tried Linux or BSD, you will find that the
idea of sharing in these communities is entirely different than it is in
the Windows "freeware" world.  I learned more about computers and
programming in the last 2 years on Linux than I did in the previous 6
years using Windows.

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2002\02\24@192016 by Dal Wheeler

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Why not simply develop on a 16f87x and use something like the bootloader.
www.workingtechnologies.com/htpic/PIC_bootloader.htm
There are windows, dos, linux, etc. drivers for this...  It's fast and can
be left in circuit.
Get the code running and port it to a smaller device if that's your desire.

If you can't find someone close by with a picstart or a universal device
programmer, send me the device and I'll program it for you.  BTW, if anyone
is looking for a device programmer with a little more general utility;
Conitecs' Galep 3 is a pretty decent little box for $330.  --Also has linux
drivers.
-Dal

{Original Message removed}

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