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'[PIC]: My gratitude to all... Newbie is progressi'
2002\03\18@174346 by Jim Martin

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Justed wanted to say 'thank you' to all who are helping me out.  I now have a copy of MPASM,  and with snippets of code I have acquired,  I am slowly but surely starting to learn a few things about PIC programming.  I know everyone here is NOT in favour of the hobbiest,  but that is where I am now.  Things are progressing well and my first project with the 16F84 will be complete this weekend.

thanks again for your patience....

Jim d. Martin

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2002\03\18@180434 by Benjamin Bromilow

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From: "Jim Martin"

>I know everyone here is NOT in favour of the hobbiest,

I disagree! It could be said that perhaps not everyone is in favour, but I
don't think that this is true either. I know alot of members (perhaps mostly
lurkers) are hobbiests. The problems are that hobbiests will often have
beginners problems and like with most things people quickly forget their old
mistakes in order to make new ones..... Similarly, when you're contemplating
the ins and outs of complex uC interfacing it's difficult to remember the
time when you didn't know your RC from your elbow (or even your XT)....
Luckily I wrote down all my mistakes and tribulation so I can look back at
how little I knew.....

Good luck with the project though!

Ben

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2002\03\18@185112 by Bob Barr

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On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:39:30 -0500, Jim Martin wrote:

>Justed wanted to say 'thank you' to all who are helping me out.

But that's what we're all here for: to give help (when we can) and get
help (when we need it) .

>I now have a copy of MPASM,  and with snippets of code I have acquired,  
>I am slowly but surely starting to learn a few things about PIC programming.

That's an excellent starting point. Even if you eventually move on to
a higher level language, I think that it will serve you well to have
the chip-level background that you get from starting out in assembly.

>I know everyone here is NOT in favour of the hobbiest,  but that is where I am now.

I'm not sure what has given you that impression but I'd suspect that a
great many of us on this list started out as hobbyists. Being able to
bring that learning to an employer or client may turn out to be very
beneficial to you at some point in the future. I landed my first
professional project based on what I had learned as a hobbyist.

>Things are progressing well and my first project with the 16F84 will be complete this weekend.

Excellent!
BTW, you might want to take a look at the 16F627/628 chips as well.
They have more resources and are faster. To top it off, they're also
cheaper. They're very similar to the 16F84 in many respects so the
learning curve isn't too steep.


Regards, Bob

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2002\03\18@193814 by Byron A Jeff

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On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 05:39:30PM -0500, Jim Martin wrote:
> Justed wanted to say 'thank you' to all who are helping me out.  I now have
> a copy of MPASM,  and with snippets of code I have acquired,  I am slowly
> but surely starting to learn a few things about PIC programming.

I'm glad to hear that you're on the right path.

> I know everyone here is NOT in favour of the hobbiest,

I'm pretty sure that's not a fair assessment. There are some categories of
people that the list tends to get aggravated with:

* Those who believe that the list is there for their personal tech support.
* Those who are too lazy to even scan the archives or check Google.
* Those who are too arrogant to accept any constructive criticism.

From what I've seen so far you don't fall into any of these categories.

A lot of times it's a matter of perspective. While to the new user everything
seems bright and shiny and new, to many on the list it's a tired old
refrain. That's why searching the archives and the web are important activites
for new users.

> but that is where I am now.
>   Things are progressing well and my first project with the 16F84 will
> be complete this weekend.
>
> thanks again for your patience....

No problem. In parting let me throw out a couple of things:

* If possible could you hard wrap your lines in your E-mail? Some of us are
 using plain old text E-mail readers that show 4 to 5 lines of text.
* Before your next project, take a close look at the 16F628. It is superior
 to the 16F84 by almost any measure. More memory, more periperals, more
 features, and a lower cost. It's a winner, the low end PIC of the new
 millenium. BTW what the heck are people calling this decade? The zeroes?
 the aughts? the two-thousands?

Anyway Jim, welcome aboard. Newbies and hobbiest are certainly welcome and
appreciated.

BAJ (non newbie hobbiest)

>
> Jim d. Martin
>
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2002\03\18@195115 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 07:22 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:

> > I know everyone here is NOT in favour of the hobbiest,

Certainly, everyone here is NOT in favo[u]r of that *spelling* of it.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
spam_OUTspeffTakeThisOuTspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
9/11 United we Stand

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2002\03\18@200407 by Dave Dilatush

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Byron A Jeff wrote...

>BTW what the heck are people calling this decade? The zeroes?
>the aughts? the two-thousands?

"middle age".

DD

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2002\03\18@202322 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney

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on 19/3/02 11:59 AM, Spehro Pefhany at .....speffKILLspamspam@spam@INTERLOG.COM wrote:

>>> I know everyone here is NOT in favour of the hobbiest,
>
> Certainly, everyone here is NOT in favo[u]r of that *spelling* of it.

Speak for yourself. It is after all the CORRECT spelling of the word.

Sean

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2002\03\18@203144 by John Ferrell

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How about the "Zippers"?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Dilatush" <dilatushspamKILLspamCOMCAST.NET>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: My gratitude to all... Newbie is progressing !


{Quote hidden}

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2002\03\18@210714 by Olin Lathrop

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> Things are progressing well and my first project with the 16F84
> will be complete this weekend.

Next time consider the 16F628.  It does more, costs less, and is pin
compatible.


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, EraseMEolinspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2002\03\18@212428 by Tim H.

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What about color vs. colour? It's all dependant on what part of the
world you're in. It's like Caribbean pronounced as "Cuh-rib-ee-un" vs.
"Care-uh-bee-un." Oh, then there's initialize vs. intialise; or embedded
vs. imbedded. Could go on forever!


-Tim H.

Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\03\18@214654 by michael brown

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Jim opines:
> I know everyone here is NOT in favour of the hobbiest,  but that is where
I am now.  Things are progressing well and my first project with the 16F84
will be complete this weekend.

Cool, way to go!  Many people here are hobbyists, regardless of what kind of
static you may hear.  I would say that most of the "regulars" here are more
than willing to offer assistance to others.  I guess you missed the "How
much water is left in the tank" thread.  You really should have been here
last year for the "How do I stop someone from stealing my mowbot?"

Try not to let any negative aspects bother you too much.  I can count on one
hand the list "regulars" that are really vocal about the heinous hobbyists
and the incredible, undue burden that they put on the piclist and microchip.
;-)  Some people just don't play well with others.  ;-D  I too am a hobbyist
for now, but I'm working on a couple of things.  I would like to be an
engineer, but I don't have the required paper-work.  ;-)  Have fun, stick
around and don't be skeered of askin questions.

michael

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2002\03\18@221437 by Matt Pobursky

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Heck, I'm a "pro" *and* a hobbyist. If I didn't like messing with
these crazy electronic things, I wouldn't want to do it for a
living. ;-)

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:39:30 -0500, Jim Martin wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\03\19@025803 by Vasile Surducan

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On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney wrote:

> >>> I know everyone here is NOT in favour of the hobbiest,
> >
> > Certainly, everyone here is NOT in favo[u]r of that *spelling* of it.
>
> Speak for yourself. It is after all the CORRECT spelling of the word.


 All the time I'm wonder why " the best microcontroller documentation is
that translated from japanese into english by the switzerlands ? "

Have you noticed that non english speackers have understand much quicly
one each other ? [ grin]

best, Vasile

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2002\03\19@035519 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney

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on 19/3/02 1:24 PM, Tim H. at @spam@tekphobiaKILLspamspamATTBI.COM wrote:


> What about color vs. colour? It's all dependant on what part of the
> world you're in.

His statement was;

> Certainly, everyone here is NOT in favo[u]r of that *spelling* of it.

The spelling colour is correct.

It's like Caribbean pronounced as "Cuh-rib-ee-un" vs.
> "Care-uh-bee-un." Oh, then there's initialize vs. intialise; or embedded
> vs. imbedded. Could go on forever!

Why do we need to go on forever? Spehro's comment was that the guy's
spelling was not correct. On the contrary, his spelling was the most correct
it could be, as it is the original (unadulterated) spelling of the word
colour.

I thought this was a PIC List - not a "Teach the world American Spelling"
list.

Sean

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2002\03\19@041905 by Russell McMahon

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> I thought this was a PIC List - not a "Teach the world American Spelling"
> list.

Yep / Yes - we are largely here to teach each other how to program /
programme better :-)



       RM

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2002\03\19@045645 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 07:53 PM 3/19/02 +1100, you wrote:

>His statement was;
> > Certainly, everyone here is NOT in favo[u]r of that *spelling* of it.

Yes.

>Why do we need to go on forever? Spehro's comment was that the guy's
>spelling was not correct. On the contrary, his spelling was the most correct
>it could be, as it is the original (unadulterated) spelling of the word
>colour.

The "it" above was a reference to the use of "hobbiest", which is NOT a
correct spelling of "hobbyist" anywhere in the English-speaking world.
Anyone claiming otherwise should provide an authoritative cite.
It is not in the Oxford English Dictionary, the American Heritage
dictionary, nor in Merriam-Webster's Collegiate dictionary.

I did provide the optional 'u' above to be inclusive of both people of
the Southern mainland and the other regions such as the frozen Northern
hinterland, the fog-bound Eastern islands and the Antipodian island
portions of the English-speaking world. ;-)

>I thought this was a PIC List - not a "Teach the world American Spelling"
>list.

PICs, like all computers, tend to do just what they are told. I think
most good programmers are a bit anal-retentive about details. There
are regional variations, as have already been mentioned, and there is
just "wrong". The PIC won't guess what you meant, it will just do as it
is told, exactly (hardware problems aside).

The English rules are not applicable to people who don't have English as a
first language, it must be extremely difficult, as it confuses even us
native speakers from time to time.

According to Google, hobbyist is misspelt on the web this way about 7%
of the time. The worst word I've found is actually more often misspelt
(or misspelled) on the web than it is spelled correctly!

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
KILLspamspeffKILLspamspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
9/11 United we Stand

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2002\03\19@052037 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney

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on 19/3/02 9:09 PM, Spehro Pefhany at RemoveMEspeffTakeThisOuTspamINTERLOG.COM wrote:

Spehro,

> The "it" above was a reference to the use of "hobbiest", which is NOT a
> correct spelling of "hobbyist" anywhere in the English-speaking world.

My apologies Spehro, I did not even notice "hobbiest", as my attention was
drawn to your [u] - as I am sure was Jim's - he is a New Zealander after
all. ;-)

> Anyone claiming otherwise should provide an authoritative cite.

No. Was never referring to "hobbiest" - just favour.

> I did provide the optional 'u' above to be inclusive of both people of
> the Southern mainland and the other regions such as the frozen Northern
> hinterland, the fog-bound Eastern islands and the Antipodian island
> portions of the English-speaking world. ;-)

The u is not optional. It was dropped by our friends in the United States to
make things eazier for them. :-)

> PICs, like all computers, tend to do just what they are told. I think
> most good programmers are a bit anal-retentive about details. There
> are regional variations, as have already been mentioned, and there is
> just "wrong". The PIC won't guess what you meant, it will just do as it
> is told, exactly (hardware problems aside).

Yes. Although, I have not yet seen the command MOVHOBBYIST in any of my PIC
text books! :-)

> The English rules are not applicable to people who don't have English as a
> first language, it must be extremely difficult, as it confuses even us
> native speakers from time to time.

I admire anybody who can converse in a language other than their own -
particularly in a technical and engineering context.

> According to Google, hobbyist is misspelt on the web this way about 7%
> of the time. The worst word I've found is actually more often misspelt
> (or misspelled) on the web than it is spelled correctly!

Oh, this seems this is a *hobby* of yours! :-) I get quite annoyed when
Google says; "Did you mean [insert American spelt equivalent here].

Where is the button for "No, I did NOT @^$#en mean ...."

Cheers,

Sean

> Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

PS: - It's analogue! :-)

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2002\03\19@064837 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Yes. Although, I have not yet seen the command
>MOVHOBBYIST in any of my PIC text books! :-)

Possibly because it is in the same table as the HALTCF (Halt & catch Fire)
instruction. Also you have misspelt the instruction, which is why it has
never accidently assembled for you. Try MOVLA "HOBBYIST" instead. MOVLA is
"Mov Literal to Anal" instruction :)

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2002\03\19@073151 by Russell McMahon

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> Possibly because it is in the same table as the HALTCF (Halt & catch Fire)


AFAIR = $DD on MC6800 (also turns into a 16 bit up counter at the same time
as catching fire).



       RM

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2002\03\19@085247 by Tim H.

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Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney wrote:
>
> Why do we need to go on forever? Spehro's comment was that the guy's
> spelling was not correct. On the contrary, his spelling was the most correct
> it could be, as it is the original (unadulterated) spelling of the word
> colour.
>
> I thought this was a PIC List - not a "Teach the world American Spelling"
> list.

I apologize if I came across as sounding like I'm teaching. I was just
pointing out the fact that there ARE different ways to spell certain
words. It's actually kind of interesting!

-Tim H.

>
> Sean
>
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2002\03\19@090620 by Olin Lathrop

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> I know everyone here is NOT in favour of the hobbiest,

I think this list is primarily for the hobbiest.  However a hobbiest or
anyone else posting a question to the list needs to keep in mind that they
are asking 2000 people to do them a favor, and should act accordingly.
Things that annoy me are:

1  -  People that are too lazy to trim all the original message from the
reply except that needed for context by the reply.

2  -  People that are too stupid or too arrogant to send properly wrapped
PLAIN TEXT email.  Lines should be wrapped to no longer than 80 characters.

3  -  HTML or MIME encoded email.

4  -  People that think that because we exist we owe them an answer without
them having to do any work, like check the archives, do a Google search, or
(Oh, no!) read the manual.

5  -  Did I mention email that isn't plain text and trimmed?


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, spamBeGoneolinspamBeGonespamembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2002\03\19@092831 by Jon Baker

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> 3  -  HTML or MIME encoded email.

I don't know if theres a policy on attachments sent to the list.. some of
the recent ones have been quite useful - the circuit for driving EL
backlights for instance.

Would you prefer UUEncoding for the attachments? Either your mail reader
doesnt support mime in which case you would prefer uucoded attachments, or
you just can't be bothered to press that extra key to choose which mime part
you want to view.

Jon Baker

PS.. How about a [RANT] topic?

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2002\03\19@094812 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney

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on 20/3/02 12:50 AM, Tim H. at TakeThisOuTtekphobiaEraseMEspamspam_OUTATTBI.COM wrote:

Hi Tim,

> I apologize if I came across as sounding like I'm teaching. I was just
> pointing out the fact that there ARE different ways to spell certain
> words. It's actually kind of interesting!

No apology necessary Tim. Just trying to get a little back for all the
Aussie bashing that went on a few weeks ago! :-)

I too find it interesting. Happens everywhere. I learnt Chinese (Mandarin)
living in Taiwan and you would be surprised (well, I was) at how many
differences there are to Mainland China after only 50 or so years! Some
everyday common items have completely different names and I am told that I
use certain expressions that are no longer used in the mainland - they were
simply in vogue in the 40's and came across to Taiwan and stuck.

In Australia we use certain old English words that are no longer in use in
the average British vocbulary. I have heard that the Quebecois (sp?) speak
more 'correct' (original) French than they do in Paris - that is of course
the opinion of the Quebecois! :-)

More than 200 years separates most English speaking colonies, so I guess
it's only due to technology that we can still understand each other at all!

Cheers,

Sean

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2002\03\19@113520 by Herbert Graf

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> > 3  -  HTML or MIME encoded email.
>
> I don't know if theres a policy on attachments sent to the list.. some of
> the recent ones have been quite useful - the circuit for driving EL
> backlights for instance.
>
> Would you prefer UUEncoding for the attachments? Either your mail reader
> doesnt support mime in which case you would prefer uucoded attachments, or
> you just can't be bothered to press that extra key to choose
> which mime part
> you want to view.

       I believe Olin was not referring to attachments but to email text that is
encoded in HTML or MIME (and if  I'm wrong please don't strike me down
Olin!:) ). Attachments CAN be useful, but so can a link to a website, which
is the method I personally prefer. TTYL

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2002\03\19@130112 by Dwayne Reid

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At 02:20 PM 3/19/02 +0000, Jon Baker wrote:
> > 3  -  HTML or MIME encoded email.
>
>Would you prefer UUEncoding for the attachments? Either your mail reader
>doesnt support mime in which case you would prefer uucoded attachments, or
>you just can't be bothered to press that extra key to choose which mime part
>you want to view.

I think the point that was being made that posts to mailing lists should be
plain, ordinary ASCII text.  No HTML tags, no MIME, no attachments.  Plain
ASCII text.

Search for the term "netiquette".  Read, learn, practice.

No flames intended.

dwayne


Dwayne Reid   <RemoveMEdwaynerspamTakeThisOuTplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
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2002\03\19@143243 by Olin Lathrop

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> I don't know if theres a policy on attachments sent to the list.. some of
> the recent ones have been quite useful - the circuit for driving EL
> backlights for instance.
>
> Would you prefer UUEncoding for the attachments? Either your mail reader
> doesnt support mime in which case you would prefer uucoded attachments, or
> you just can't be bothered to press that extra key to choose which mime
part
> you want to view.

I was talking about the messages that are just text, but wrapped in some
encoding scheme instead of being just plain text.  In the rare cases an
attatchment is needed, then of course it needs to be encoded, preferably
MIME.


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, olinEraseMEspam.....embedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2002\03\19@180354 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney

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on 20/3/02 4:58 AM, Dwayne Reid at EraseMEdwaynerspamPLANET.EON.NET wrote:

> I think the point that was being made that posts to mailing lists should be
> plain, ordinary ASCII text.  No HTML tags, no MIME, no attachments.  Plain
> ASCII text.

From the very first post I sent to the list, I sent a HTML file (not knowing
any better) and the resulting email came through the list as plain text.

This email is being sent as a test in the standard (HTML) of my email
client.

Regards,

Sean

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2002\03\19@210735 by Olin Lathrop

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> From the very first post I sent to the list, I sent a HTML file (not
knowing
> any better) and the resulting email came through the list as plain text.

It may have looked like plain text in your mailer, but HTML can look like
gobbledygook in some mailers.

> This email is being sent as a test in the standard (HTML) of my email
> client.

Your message was encoded as 7 bit ASCII plain text, just like it should be.
Whatever settings you used in your mailer, keep using the same ones for the
PIC list.


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, RemoveMEolinEraseMEspamEraseMEembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2002\03\19@213542 by Gaston Gagnon

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Olin Lathrop a icrit :
>
> > I know everyone here is NOT in favour of the hobbiest,
>
> I think this list is primarily for the hobbiest.  However a hobbiest or
> anyone else posting a question to the list needs to keep in mind that they
> are asking 2000 people to do them a favor, and should act accordingly.
> Things that annoy me are:
>
> 1  -  People that are too lazy to trim all the original message from the
> reply except that needed for context by the reply.
>

Speaking of keeping for context, I for one would really appreciate if the
posters would keep the originator's name of the message they you are answering
to at the beginning of their own message. Especially true if they keep only
snippets of the original as it it is the case here.

On long threads or when someone changes the thread's name, even slightly, I find
it difficult to make sense of it all.

Thank you,
Gaston

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